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LMMzach
17 March 2015, 18:46
So I'm on my third build. I have one shtf type build that's all long lasting parts little maintenance flash light so on. Then I have a "fancy" for lack of a better word build. It has a shrouded kx5 on a 13.7" barrel with high end everything honestly don't shoot it to often lol.

Anyway to my point. I got a free lower so I had to start another build of corse! I want to use this for my anytime someone calls me grab it and go rifle. I also want to use this to start practicing drills.

I've been looking at the northtech barrel 14.5" mid length but I'm not sure I really need it. I know they are made for great accuracy but are they made to shoot a lot also? Because I plan to use this fire arm a lot. If anyone could give me a little more info that would be greatly appreciated thanks.

UWone77
17 March 2015, 19:08
When you say shoot "a lot" how much shooting do you estimate doing per month?

RiverRat
17 March 2015, 19:15
Forgive me for asking, but what has you leaning towards a stainless barrel for running drills?

LMMzach
17 March 2015, 19:25
Forgive me for asking, but what has you leaning towards a stainless barrel for running drills?

Nothing. That's kind of my point as I'm not sure what benefits it would have for me. I can read all day about the barrel but there isn't to much feed back on longevity or durability that I could find. I'm no competitive shooter or anything I just like getting out and having fun. I like to challenge myself is why I want to start doing drills. Also it's more physical.

UWone77
17 March 2015, 19:39
A quality Chrome Lined CHF or button rifled barrel will suit your needs. 20k+ rounds easily. Look at the BCM Filthy 14 rifle, that gun is still running after what? 40k rounds on a Chrome Lined Button rifled BCM Barrel?

I like Rainier Mountain Series barrels as they are less than their double chrome lined CHF counterparts right now. A number of other choices out there as well. If you plan to just shoot drills, I would not go stainless.

Dstrbdmedic167
17 March 2015, 19:42
UW hit it on the head! RA Mountain series is the way to go for a "training" rifle. of course BCM, DD or other well known names we've all mentioned in other threads would be GTG!

LMMzach
17 March 2015, 19:45
A quality Chrome Lined CHF or button rifled barrel will suit your needs. 20k+ rounds easily. Look at the BCM Filthy 14 rifle, that gun is still running after what? 40k rounds on a Chrome Lined Button rifled BCM Barrel?

I like Rainier Mountain Series barrels as they are less than their double chrome lined CHF counterparts right now. A number of other choices out there as well. If you plan to just shoot drills, I would not go stainless.

Brilliant thank you I will do some research on these. I saw stickman had a sale code for the mountain series. Are any of these mid length gas system do you know off hand?

Dstrbdmedic167
17 March 2015, 19:48
Brilliant thank you I will do some research on these. I saw stickman had a sale code for the mountain series. Are any of these mid length gas system do you know off hand?

Looking on their site the 16's are the 14.5'' is carbine

http://www.rainierarms.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?manufacturer=60&p=2&q=mountain

UWone77
17 March 2015, 19:54
Brilliant thank you I will do some research on these. I saw stickman had a sale code for the mountain series. Are any of these mid length gas system do you know off hand?

The 14.5's are all carbine, the 16 and 18's are all Mid length.

DutyUse
17 March 2015, 20:11
Brilliant thank you I will do some research on these. I saw stickman had a sale code for the mountain series. Are any of these mid length gas system do you know off hand?

Just received my 16" midweight middy from RA via the stickman promotion. For 285 shipped it's a steal.

If ROG hadn't lured me into 2 noveske barrels right before the RA promo I would have stocked up on em.

Edit: this thread needs photos :)

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/17/b649d33862d965bc833cf7aaca0523d4.jpg

Txfilmmaker
17 March 2015, 21:03
Just received my 16" midweight middy from RA via the stickman promotion. For 285 shipped it's a steal.

If ROG hadn't lured me into 2 noveske barrels right before the RA promo I would have stocked up on em.

Edit: this thread needs photos :)

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/17/b649d33862d965bc833cf7aaca0523d4.jpg

Nice! I just sold my rail and I'm real close to having my barrel money. :)


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Txfilmmaker
17 March 2015, 21:09
Looks pretty accurate - http://youtu.be/WkRKTwwvvJM


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BoilerUp
17 March 2015, 21:25
The RA Mountain Series should be a great option for a heavy use shooter, but I'd personally go with a QPQ/nitride barrel. Take a look at Voodoo Innovations, AR Performance and Ballistic Advantage's melonite barrels. BA's Hanson barrels come with the LPGB pinned and they used to have a $10 pinning service but I don't see that offered on their new website. It looks like my next barrel purchase will be an ARP barrel but that will be for a 6.8 build.

Txfilmmaker
17 March 2015, 22:07
The RA Mountain Series should be a great option for a heavy use shooter, but I'd personally go with a QPQ/nitride barrel. Take a look at Voodoo Innovations, AR Performance and Ballistic Advantage's melonite barrels. BA's Hanson barrels come with the LPGB pinned and they used to have a $10 pinning service but I don't see that offered on their new website. It looks like my next barrel purchase will be an ARP barrel but that will be for a 6.8 build.

For those interested in the BA Hanson, Weapons Outfitters has them for $205. I think with the low pro row gas block. "So many barrels, so little time..."


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Txfilmmaker
17 March 2015, 22:34
Looks pretty accurate - http://youtu.be/WkRKTwwvvJM


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Sub MOA from a CHL barrel with bulk ammo?


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UWone77
17 March 2015, 22:35
Sub MOA from a CHL barrel with bulk ammo?


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You also have to account for who is behind that trigger. I can get about 1.5 MOA groups out of my Mountain Barrels, but I'm not a very good precision shooter.

KevinBLC
17 March 2015, 22:36
I'll stick with a good proven chrome lined FN barrel like rainiers vs some nitride barrel.

greenlineaz
17 March 2015, 22:40
I would definitely go with a Cold Hammer Forged Barrel for a hard use rifle. The RA Mountain Series are what I was looking at for my next build too.

Txfilmmaker
17 March 2015, 22:47
You also have to account for who is behind that trigger. I can get about 1.5 MOA groups out of my Mountain Barrels, but I'm not a very good precision shooter.

Just the idea that it can be done, even if I can't do it, is appealing. These barrel discussions are something else. I probably won't ever wear out any barrel, but I still want quality. Mountain, Hanson, BCM button riffled, or whatever. The Mountain a Series may be hard use, but the 1lb 9.8 onces isn't heavy. BTW I will be thrilled if I can shoot 1.5 MOA when I get some practice on my rifle. :)


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DutyUse
18 March 2015, 01:27
Just the idea that it can be done, even if I can't do it, is appealing. These barrel discussions are something else. I probably won't ever wear out any barrel, but I still want quality. Mountain, Hanson, BCM button riffled, or whatever. The Mountain a Series may be hard use, but the 1lb 9.8 onces isn't heavy. BTW I will be thrilled if I can shoot 1.5 MOA when I get some practice on my rifle. :)


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Don't fall into the trap of thinking you need to shoot super tiny groups to have an effective carbine.

Vital zone is conservatively 8"x8". So even shooting 4 moa groups nets you lethal shots at 200.. And let's be honest if you ever had to use a rifle to defend home and family it's gonna be 50 and in most likely.

SINNER
18 March 2015, 01:50
Someone tell that guy to finish his group before he measures it. LOL 3 gunners.

rob_s
18 March 2015, 03:08
So I'm on my third build. I have one shtf type build that's all long lasting parts little maintenance flash light so on. Then I have a "fancy" for lack of a better word build. It has a shrouded kx5 on a 13.7" barrel with high end everything honestly don't shoot it to often lol.

Anyway to my point. I got a free lower so I had to start another build of corse! I want to use this for my anytime someone calls me grab it and go rifle. I also want to use this to start practicing drills.

I've been looking at the northtech barrel 14.5" mid length but I'm not sure I really need it. I know they are made for great accuracy but are they made to shoot a lot also? Because I plan to use this fire arm a lot. If anyone could give me a little more info that would be greatly appreciated thanks.

So you have two guns now that you don't shoot a lot, presumably because they are not suitable for running drills, so you need a third to be able to start doing that?

I are confuse.

Is it about the gun/build or the "drills"? What does "drills" mean to you?

DutyUse
18 March 2015, 03:25
So I'm on my third build. I have one shtf type build that's all long lasting parts little maintenance flash light so on. Then I have a "fancy" for lack of a better word build. It has a shrouded kx5 on a 13.7" barrel with high end everything honestly don't shoot it to often lol.

Anyway to my point. I got a free lower so I had to start another build of corse! I want to use this for my anytime someone calls me grab it and go rifle. I also want to use this to start practicing drills.

I've been looking at the northtech barrel 14.5" mid length but I'm not sure I really need it. I know they are made for great accuracy but are they made to shoot a lot also? Because I plan to use this fire arm a lot. If anyone could give me a little more info that would be greatly appreciated thanks.




So you have two guns now that you don't shoot a lot, presumably because they are not suitable for running drills, so you need a third to be able to start doing that?

I are confuse.

Is it about the gun/build or the "drills"?

Rob's post made me realize what I should have advised you originally.

Sell your free lower, get a Colt 6720 or 6920 for 1000-profits of sale. Lack of expensive parts leaves more money for the important aspect. Ammo

That's a hard use, rain or shine training rifle you can depend on forever ;)

alamo5000
18 March 2015, 06:01
I am new to the game but experimenting is part of the game here. I built my AR with a pretty nice stainless barrel and I absolutely love the thing. I can shoot tiny groups and I like doing that from time to time. I am not a one trick pony kind of a guy but I do enjoy it. That said to get the groups you need the ammo and just any old ammo will not do. If you want to exploit and use to it's potential a good stainless barrel your ammo costs either just went up or you just became a really good reloader.

If you do not want to buy expensive match ammo and/or you do not want to take the time to reload then you will be better served by some other kind of barrel. As others have said the Mountain Series from RA is a no brainer.

If I were building a quality all purpose rifle I would go with something like a RA Mountain. Don't get me wrong, I like my rifle a lot. I don't regret it one bit. But now that I have a little trial and error under my belt I am seeing the light so to speak. A nice match or even not match stainless barrel are great if you want super accuracy and are willing to get the optic/trigger/and ammo to create that system. But if you just want to pick up a case of cheap ammo and run with it...you have better options.

So for me, if I want to shoot tiny groups I pick up $1.25 cents a round ammo and do that. If I want to shoot other stuff I go to Wal Mart and get the $33 box of 100. The rifle will shoot either but not to the same effect.

DutyUse
18 March 2015, 07:43
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/18/8d047be930819b0b7eb6d876f7969c4e.jpg

That's what I could pull off this morning using a 16" noveske chf barrel, a 3-9 Zeiss and xm193.

Not gonna win any awards but FN barrels are like UW mentioned, often more accurate then their owners.

Txfilmmaker
18 March 2015, 09:09
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/18/8d047be930819b0b7eb6d876f7969c4e.jpg

That's what I could pull off this morning using a 16" noveske chf barrel, a 3-9 Zeiss and xm193.

Not gonna win any awards but FN barrels are like UW mentioned, often more accurate then their owners.

Your grouping here shows that you can get much better than 4 MOA groups with a very good combat barrel. That's very good shooting.
I'm not falling into the trap of wanting tiny groups, but I see it's possible to get good accuracy from a "non-match grade" barrel.
UWone77 wrote earlier:
"A quality Chrome Lined CHF or button rifled barrel will suit your needs. 20k+ rounds easily. Look at the BCM Filthy 14 rifle, that gun is still running after what? 40k rounds on a Chrome Lined Button rifled BCM Barrel?"

So a solid long lasting barrel does not have to be CHF

BoilerUp mentioned the Melonite barrels and wrote me a nice letter discribing the science behind it. He said the they would last longer than chrome lined, but I won't wear out either.

I really got into the idea of getting the Mountain Series barrel when it went on sale, but I am still dealing with budget issues.
Mountain Series Barrel $285 shipped. Gas Block $ 45 plus? Barrell nut $8 Gas tube &12? Sights $90-140 depending on choice. Range bag $50? etc. Total $490-540

Ballistic Advantage Hanson Barrel with gas block $205 Barrell nut $8 Gas tube &12? Sights $90-140 depending on choice. Range bag $50? etc. Total $365-415

If I decide to get the Mountain Series barrel, I can just wait a few months to get the rest of the stuff. It's taken over a year to get this close. It is nice to be this close. If I had not won all of what I have, I wouldn't have to decide. So it's not so bad that I am having to work through these decisions. :-)

DutyUse
18 March 2015, 09:54
Barrels certainly don't need to be cold hammer forged to be quality. Colt and BCM etc Chrome lined barrels are excellent. Look on the EE's for a slightly used colt take off, some good deals to be had. The reason I trend to CHF is outstanding consistency and QC.

Your on the right track bro. Any questions just ask, someone here will give you some good advice.

LMMzach
18 March 2015, 10:51
So you have two guns now that you don't shoot a lot, presumably because they are not suitable for running drills, so you need a third to be able to start doing that?

I are confuse.

Is it about the gun/build or the "drills"? What does "drills" mean to you?

I shoot my first rifle I built everytime I go out. It's not that I can't use that.

"Drills" just means fun for me. Idk if I came off like I wanted to be top operator of the world or what but that was not my intention I apologize. Doing drills and being more mobile while shooting is just something I would like to get into. So I wanted it to be in mind.

I looked around and I couldn't get much info on the northtech barrel.


But after all the feedback I think that is not worth it for me to spend that kind of money. I might just try to change up my northtech/Noveske build to better suit what I want.

Thanks

rob_s
18 March 2015, 12:52
But after all the feedback I think that is not worth it for me to spend that kind of money. I might just try to change up my northtech/Noveske build to better suit what I want.

Thanks

I'm still not sure what "drills" means (and I didn't take it to mean any sort of operator nonsense), but I think the above is a good plan.

What you're likely finding is what most of us find after we "build" something based solely on internets and aesthetics, and that is it doesn't really do anything very well, or at the very least has quite a few shortcomings in terms of how we'll actually use the gun.

I went through this myself back in the day. I read and read and read and I "built" an AR with all the best parts at the time (and things were a lot goddamn simpler then before all these nobodies decided to make a buck making AR parts). Then I went out and shot my new prize. Guess what? It was heavy as hell and damn near useless for the way I was shooting. I based all of my "research", as it turns out, on the word of a bunch of dim-bulbs on the internets that never went out and shot, and if they did never left the bench, and never shot from the bench more than 50 yards (in that regard, not a goddamn thing has changed in all these years).

If I were you, I'd go buy a Colt 6720 and start shooting "drills" with it. Change out parts as your activities and abilities overrun the capabilities of the gun.

Computalotapus
19 March 2015, 06:42
I have gotten lucky with both my builds. The UCWRG rifle was built for my wife and she shoots from the bench. Only thing that has changed on that rifle is now that she is starting to shoot further out she replaced the RDS for a magnified optid. My NTD build that I did for 2-Gun events. I am very pleased with the way it turned out and have no plans to change out or add anything to this rifle. I did a ton of research and reading to find what I was looking for. Between UWone77 and rob_s I probably got some of the best advice. Now granted I didn't listen to rob_s when he said "buy a colt" because I was dead set on building but, I did listen to the message of "buy a colt" and that message is keep it simple. Identify your NEEDS.

The other thing is remember that the weapon is a tool and like any good tool it needs to be balanced. I remember I really wanted to tuck a KX-3/5 under a rail and I was pushing around the idea of a 13.5" barrel and pinning a KX-3/5 to it to achieve this. UWone77 stepped in and told me that it would make the rifle really front heavy. I tried to tell myself naw I can deal with the extra weight, I am glad I took a few days to think it over before making my purchase. I feel using the knowledge I have gained from doing my research and listening to advice helped me make better decisions.

I have two rifles purpose built with very minimal accessories. And both rifles fit exactly what they were built to do.

alamo5000
19 March 2015, 07:07
I have gotten lucky with both my builds. The UCWRG rifle was built for my wife and she shoots from the bench. Only thing that has changed on that rifle is now that she is starting to shoot further out she replaced the RDS for a magnified optid. My NTD build that I did for 2-Gun events. I am very pleased with the way it turned out and have no plans to change out or add anything to this rifle. I did a ton of research and reading to find what I was looking for. Between UWone77 and rob_s I probably got some of the best advice. Now granted I didn't listen to rob_s when he said "buy a colt" because I was dead set on building but, I did listen to the message of "buy a colt" and that message is keep it simple. Identify your NEEDS.

I had a very similar experience. I agree. Once you take the time to really define your needs and tendencies and what you are really interested in these choices become a whole lot easier or at least the list becomes shorter.

I too got great advice here. UW is the one that turned me onto my barrel (RA Select Medcon) and I couldn't be more over joyed with the thing.

DTR!!!! Define the Rifle!!!

Better yet define what YOU LIKE TO DO.

For me I like accuracy the whole thing interests me. It doesn't eliminate my interests in other things by ANY means but reloading and trying to hit dimes at 100 yards is enjoyable to me. Other people hate that stuff to no end. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong. If you want to hit dimes at 100 yards... start looking stainless. If you hate that stuff and want to hit steel targets and will shoot 500 rounds a day then go with something else.

After I got my first one done now I want to build like 4 or 5 rifles... all with different purposes to them. UW is a bucket-o-knowledge but even he doesn't know what kind of shooting you like to do. Of all his talents I am sure ESP isn't on the list. LOL [:D]

A friend of mine has a 14.5 pinned barrel with a slide fire on it. If you put a stainless barrel on that gun it would be just stupid. For me, I might go out in the back yard 2 or 3 times a week and shoot 2 or 3 mags at a time on a regular basis. Those are two totally different things.

There is certainly no lack of choices of good barrels but many people just don't think through what they want or like all the way. Sometimes people end up with a half baked rifle by not thinking through what YOU PERSONALLY like to do.

alamo5000
19 March 2015, 07:13
It's almost like a dating service. Do you like blondes or brunettes? Or do you have a thing for chubby girls? I think Asian girls can be really cute. But then again I have seen some really hot red heads as well.

And NO you can't have em all.[BD]

But in the case of rifles you might be able to have em all, but you will have more than one rifle if you do.

GOST
19 March 2015, 09:02
You could just buy one of everything.[BD] I kid, like others have said a chrome lined barrel from a reputable manufacturer will do. A high quality stainless will do also, but will give no benefit with bulk ammo. Most of the time a more expensive barrel with cheap ammo will be out performed by a less expensive barrel with decent ammo.

Like Comp said you may want to consider weight and balance. The profile of BCM ELW 16" makes this barrel feel like a LW 14.5" barrel, and is supposed to handle heat as well as a government profile.

As far durability goes I doubt a CHF barrel will be anymore durable than a standard button rifled barrel that's been chrome lined. The chrome lining is stronger than the under lying steel and it doesn't know whether the steel is CHF or not.[BD] The advantage to CHF is that sometimes there is more consistency in the bore.

I have had great luck with BCM BFH barrels, but there are a lot of good barrels out there.

DutyUse
19 March 2015, 13:22
My first AR barrel was a heavy profile on a Rock River a friend sold me, it was fine but like comp mentioned a little front heavy. Next a BCM m4 profile CL button rifled, little lighter. After owning and using a bunch my absolute favorite "all arounds" now are BCM/Nov CHF 14.5 Light weights. Yes they must be pinned, but that little lack of material essentially takes away (or at least mostly reduces) the weight penalty of using something like a latanc muzzle device, and theoretically makes for a stiffer barrel. For me, there accurate enough to easily hit C zone silhouettes at most practical ranges and are fast into action. Now I rarely shoot 500rds a day anymore because ammo prices have sky rocketed, but not uncommon to shoot a 120 round American Eagle "mini-can" after I get off work.

I couldn't agree more with what Comp and others posted, figure out what you want to do with the rifle then build accordingly. I'll warn you though it's addictive [BD]

Txfilmmaker
19 March 2015, 19:15
I picked up a 14.5" LW rifle at the gun store, once. It did feel really good. I've won 2 muzzle devices to choose between. One is the Dragon the other is a White Sound Defense FOSSA 556. It's a great flash hider with some muzzle rise mitigation.


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UWone77
20 March 2015, 00:33
If I were you, I'd go buy a Colt 6720 and start shooting "drills" with it. Change out parts as your activities and abilities overrun the capabilities of the gun.

6 months ago when I saw Colt's for $799 to $849, I probably said that same thing 100x over to several new shooters in person and online. I don't think 1 person took my advice. Probably ended up spending 1.5-2x what the Colt cost, only to get a rifle that wasn't as good.

For anyone that wants to "customize" their gun, I'd also look at the Colt OEM1 and OEM2 models.

Txfilmmaker
20 March 2015, 05:30
6 months ago when I saw Colt's for $799 to $849, I probably said that same thing 100x over to several new shooters in person and online. I don't think 1 person took my advice. Probably ended up spending 1.5-2x what the Colt cost, only to get a rifle that wasn't as good.

For anyone that wants to "customize" their gun, I'd also look at the Colt OEM1 and OEM2 models.

I've shared that advice a lot.


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SINNER
20 March 2015, 05:45
I wound up getting 3 6721 HBAR's (MD legal BS) for right around 2k from a LGS a that overbought about 6 months ago. No way you can lose on a Colt for that kind of coin. Out of all the AR's I own my 6920 with a LW profile barrel is still one of my best handling and shooting AR's. That gun shoots almost every type of ammo I have tried consistently well.