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VIPER 237
21 March 2015, 13:44
Last month I was involved with a 10,000 round endurance test by a local rifle mfg (NDA prevents me from disclosing their information at this time), and my rifle as well as one other had the Cryptic Coatings BCG's in the Black Mystic/CVD treatment. My rifle's test was one shot every two seconds for 90 rounds, let barrel cool down to ambient temp, and then wipe down and re-lube with slip2000 every thousand rounds for 10,000 documented rounds. The other rifle with the Cryptic Coatings BCG was a dry test where all parts were degreased prior to testing, and one shot every two seconds for 90 rounds, cool to ambient, for 2,000 documented rounds.

Here is the BCG from my rifle at the documented 10,000 rounds after a quick blast from gun scrubber and a wipe down. There was almost no wear on the contact points.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8644/16432171620_8083c645bd_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/r34b8N)Cryptic coatings bcg (https://flic.kr/p/r34b8N) by jprizz237 (https://www.flickr.com/people/123872002@N08/), on Flickr
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8660/16411894607_351fe2cd1b_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/r1gfu8)Cryptic coatings bcg (https://flic.kr/p/r1gfu8) by jprizz237 (https://www.flickr.com/people/123872002@N08/), on Flickr
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8660/16618069291_0cb3e331d0_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/rjtX34)Cryptic coatings bcg (https://flic.kr/p/rjtX34) by jprizz237 (https://www.flickr.com/people/123872002@N08/), on Flickr
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8573/16432179560_c4110c5602_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/r34duG)Cryptic coatings bcg (https://flic.kr/p/r34duG) by jprizz237 (https://www.flickr.com/people/123872002@N08/), on Flickr

Here is the BCG from the 2,000 round dry test.

BEFORE

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8645/16618044611_a8da913445_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/rjtPGx)Cryptic coatings bcg (https://flic.kr/p/rjtPGx) by jprizz237 (https://www.flickr.com/people/123872002@N08/), on Flickr
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8663/16433371589_d0ab236a09_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/r3ajQV)Cryptic coatings bcg (https://flic.kr/p/r3ajQV) by jprizz237 (https://www.flickr.com/people/123872002@N08/), on Flickr
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8612/16593209266_bb9891e214_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/rhhx1W)Cryptic coatings bcg (https://flic.kr/p/rhhx1W) by jprizz237 (https://www.flickr.com/people/123872002@N08/), on Flickr

AFTER

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8561/16619198165_a0c6ae1543_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/rjzJBp)Cryptic coatings bcg (https://flic.kr/p/rjzJBp) by jprizz237 (https://www.flickr.com/people/123872002@N08/), on Flickr
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8634/15999430393_a5470a7179_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qnPgfa)Cryptic coatings bcg (https://flic.kr/p/qnPgfa) by jprizz237 (https://www.flickr.com/people/123872002@N08/), on Flickr
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8569/15999419713_e42cba6172_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qnPd52)Cryptic coatings bcg (https://flic.kr/p/qnPd52) by jprizz237 (https://www.flickr.com/people/123872002@N08/), on Flickr

Even after 2K rounds caked on most of the carbon literally wiped off with a rag. Now there was more wear marks on the dry test than the 10K lubed test, so even with fancy coatings and treatments lubrication is needed, however the PVD/CVD finish was by far the superior treatment. There was also some NiB bcg's being tested and they showed significantly more wear than the PVD/CVD carries, and clean up was barely improved over the phosphate coated ones. To me NiB is a worthless finish, but the NP3 and PVD/CVD show promise.

Overall I personally feel that the CVD/PVD process is the most advanced alternative treatment/finish on the market available. Sure the price is more than some of the other offerings but I was flat out amazed at how easy it cleaned up and how slick it is.

toolboxluis00200
21 March 2015, 13:52
great pics that is amazing how well it help up to bad you dont have video of you cleaning it

VIPER 237
21 March 2015, 14:07
great pics that is amazing how well it help up to bad you dont have video of you cleaning it

I may be going out next month with them again so if I do I'll take more pics and video. It's amazing though, even on the bolt tail you could flake off the carbon with your fingernail.

toolboxluis00200
21 March 2015, 14:22
I may be going out next month with them again so if I do I'll take more pics and video. It's amazing though, even on the bolt tail you could flake off the carbon with your fingernail.

man that is bad ass right ther

DutyUse
21 March 2015, 14:40
Awesome review, photos and testing! Thank you for sharing. Once your Nda ends (hopefully sooner then later) I hope you post a full write up.

I agree with what you said about regardless of the fancy coating, lubrication is needed or more wear will form. I'm running a nitride BCG without lube/cleaning for my own curiosities, tho now I wish I had two to compare them like you did. Dang what a good post :)

GOST
21 March 2015, 14:48
Looks good, thanks for the review. Would like to see pics of the bolt tail.

Stone
21 March 2015, 15:01
Thanks for the write up! I have been looking at the mystic black for a while now but was waiting for some real world reviews to come in. Please keep us posted on any further updates!!

VIPER 237
22 March 2015, 10:38
Thanks guys. I thought I had some pictures of the bolt and tail but I don't.

voodoo_man
22 March 2015, 10:41
so what you are saying is that you'd recommend it?

VIPER 237
23 March 2015, 07:56
so what you are saying is that you'd recommend it?

That is a good question. I haven't been a believer in fancy coatings and treatments as I've always felt a good lubricant like FireClean is all you need. I also rarely clean my rifles and when they get dry I just put on more lube. However ive started to shoot suppressed almost exclusively and those who do shoot suppressed understand how filthy things get fast. So I can see the benefit of the Cryptic Coatings Black Mystic treatment, and I am honestly contemplating a switch from phosphate to the CVD/PVD.

voodoo_man
23 March 2015, 09:09
Hmmmm

I sort of want a gold or weird color bcg....

VIPER 237
23 March 2015, 11:51
Hmmmm

I sort of want a gold or weird color bcg....

CC's mystic bronze is pretty unique.

SINNER
23 March 2015, 12:19
Who makes the BCG? Looks to me like they are selling a $110 bolt for $275 after coating. No thanks.

gatordev
23 March 2015, 13:19
That is a good question. I haven't been a believer in fancy coatings and treatments as I've always felt a good lubricant like FireClean is all you need. I also rarely clean my rifles and when they get dry I just put on more lube. However ive started to shoot suppressed almost exclusively and those who do shoot suppressed understand how filthy things get fast. So I can see the benefit of the Cryptic Coatings Black Mystic treatment, and I am honestly contemplating a switch from phosphate to the CVD/PVD.

I'm not asking this to be a jerk...honest question:

You said that NiB was a worthless finish, but what you describe (run the BCG suppressed, wipe away the goop) happens with NiB, as well, assuming you're using the correct lube. Or do you mean because you can do what you did with no lube?

GOST
23 March 2015, 13:40
Who makes the BCG? Looks to me like they are selling a $110 bolt for $275 after coating. No thanks.

Toolcraft

UWone77
23 March 2015, 14:12
I'm not asking this to be a jerk...honest question:

You said that NiB was a worthless finish, but what you describe (run the BCG suppressed, wipe away the goop) happens with NiB, as well, assuming you're using the correct lube. Or do you mean because you can do what you did with no lube?

I have the same question.

I find NiB to be actually pretty decent. It is the end all be all that needs no lube? No, I think that has been overstated, but I do find it easier to clean, and usually just needs a wipe down and more lube. With the costs lately, the price over a phosphate is negligible.

The Cryptic Coating has my interest piqued, and the price point reminds me of how much Fail Zero charged initially for NiB.

GOST
25 March 2015, 05:44
If this coating is as thin and durable as it claims, makes you wonder how it would handle as a bore lining.

SINNER
25 March 2015, 08:03
Toolcraft

That company was selling NiB coated bolt carrier groups for under $120. I actually have 2 I am 99% sure were Toolcraft. The gas key has so much nickel boron build up in them that the gas tube will not go 1/4" into the key and keeps the bolt from locking into battery. They were sold as Toolcraft BCG's but lack the cage code they currently have on them, the reason I say 99% sure.

VIPER 237
26 March 2015, 15:29
I'm not asking this to be a jerk...honest question:

You said that NiB was a worthless finish, but what you describe (run the BCG suppressed, wipe away the goop) happens with NiB, as well, assuming you're using the correct lube. Or do you mean because you can do what you did with no lube?

In my experience the Nib isn't that much easier to clean than a phosphate with a good lube, and unlubed its almost the same. I've also experienced a stuck bcg with a fail zero, and in our test Nib also showed much more wear on the contact points. The fact that the CVD treatment was easier to clean with no lube than the Nib with lube to me shows how superior the CVD/PVD process is. Yes it is very expensive but if you want the Ferrari you have to buck up and pay the price, and most of us have no problem dropping $200 on a trigger, $100 on a muzzle device, so what's another $100 for a top quality BCG?

I'm going out again on Monday and i'll make sure to take a video and more pics to help you guys see how slick this stuff is.

gatordev
26 March 2015, 18:25
Thanks for the reply. I know lube is much like religion (everyone KNOWS theirs is the best), but I've had a similar issue with NiB when suppressed with the "wrong" lube. That's part of why I was asking. I've had a WMD lock up on me with Slip 2k after <200 rounds out of a MK18. With Slip 2K EWL, I've been able to shoot and shoot with the same BCG, so that's partly why I was trying to clarify.

Looks like an amazing coating, but for now, I'll stick with phosphate or NiB and some "good" lube and direct the extra money towards other toys (like ammo) until the price comes down.

Aragorn
26 March 2015, 21:01
I kinda want the titanium one... But damn, $450?

BC98
23 April 2015, 06:36
Sorry to drag this back up but I was wondering if the OP knew whether Cryptic would coat a customer bolt carrier? If MN changes their suppressor laws, I'm looking at switching over to an LMT Enhanced Carrier in an SBR that would be shot 95% suppressed but would be interested in trying out the coating as well.

VIPER 237
23 April 2015, 07:31
Sorry to drag this back up but I was wondering if the OP knew whether Cryptic would coat a customer bolt carrier? If MN changes their suppressor laws, I'm looking at switching over to an LMT Enhanced Carrier in an SBR that would be shot 95% suppressed but would be interested in trying out the coating as well.

I do not know this information.

I just completed another 10k round cycle and we used the same two cryptic coatings black mystic bcgs. I'm currently writing up a review and trying to figure out how to upload videos.

Kopis
23 April 2015, 13:02
I looked at the Mystic but what kept me away is that it's just a $100 bcg with an amazing coating. There isn't any other new technology or engineering put into it. Lantac, Sharps, LMT, JP, Salient etc all have custom looking BCGs with fancy coatings. The Mystic coating "may" be better by 1% but they need to tweak the bcg itself to attract more buyers IMO. I dont mind dropping that money on a bcg but i want it to have a different look... but maybe that's just me.

tact
23 April 2015, 13:06
So it's 99% looks and 1% finish/coating?

UWone77
23 April 2015, 13:09
So it's 99% looks and 1% finish/coating?

That sounds about right... [BD]

Stone
23 April 2015, 15:02
Yeah my dream BCG is the LWRC one piece carrier coated in Mystic Black. Modern Outfitters is carrying them at a lower price if anyone is interested. http://www.shopmodernoutfitters.com/product-p/moderncarbinebcg.htm

Kopis
24 April 2015, 08:23
So it's 99% looks and 1% finish/coating?

Yes and no. Im no soldier nor am i trying to play one. Im honest and upfront... I ride a triumph daytona 675R, used to have a regular daytona. The R spec has ohlins (top of the line suspension in bikes) and brembo brakes. Did i need that stuff? Certainly not, but i liked the paint scheme a lot better. I dont brag and try to say Ohhhhh i have the R spec so Ill be .0127% faster on the track than a regular daytona...

Same goes for the BCG. Im not a solider and this gun is not going to be carried through the sands of the middle east firing thousands of rounds. I wanted a bad asslooking BCG with a good, easy to clean finish. I dont need the finish to be .02% lower coefficient of friction or last 5% longer than a different finish. Lantac gave me that. I do think the mystic coating is slightly better but how much so? Probably like my bike.. just marginally better for the use that i intend to give it so yes, looks carried a little more value to me on this purchase.

Stone
24 April 2015, 09:44
Yes and no. Im no soldier nor am i trying to play one. Im honest and upfront... I ride a triumph daytona 675R, used to have a regular daytona. The R spec has ohlins (top of the line suspension in bikes) and brembo brakes. Did i need that stuff? Certainly not, but i liked the paint scheme a lot better. I dont brag and try to say Ohhhhh i have the R spec so Ill be .0127% faster on the track than a regular daytona...

Same goes for the BCG. Im not a solider and this gun is not going to be carried through the sands of the middle east firing thousands of rounds. I wanted a bad asslooking BCG with a good, easy to clean finish. I dont need the finish to be .02% lower coefficient of friction or last 5% longer than a different finish. Lantac gave me that. I do think the mystic coating is slightly better but how much so? Probably like my bike.. just marginally better for the use that i intend to give it so yes, looks carried a little more value to me on this purchase.

So basically what you are saying is that you don't own one, never have used one but still have an opinion on percentages, wear ratio's and a conclusion based on zero experience with the product. Thanks for the nose bleed review[crazy]

Viper is actually running one and his opinion(based on facts) is a stark contrast to yours. Looking forward to more updates Viper.

UWone77
26 April 2015, 20:43
Viper,

Are the Coatings the same despite the color differences, bronze, gold, silver, black, ect? This finish has my interest piqued, but I'm wondering why the black mystic coating costs $40 more than some of the other colors.

GOST
27 April 2015, 06:21
I was wondering the same thing. According to their web-site the black is harder and slicker than the other colors, possibly a higher carbon content.

http://www.crypticcoatings.com/bolt-carrier-group-coatings/

Stone
27 April 2015, 06:27
Yeah the Coefficient of Friction at .01 is amazing.

Stone
27 April 2015, 06:42
I was wondering the same thing. According to their web-site the black is harder and slicker than the other colors, possibly a higher carbon content.

http://www.crypticcoatings.com/bolt-carrier-group-coatings/

" possibly a higher carbon content" Kind of, I think its more of how the new atom is formed(the shape of it) through the process.
"In hybridization, carbon's 2s and three 2p orbitals combine into four identical orbitals, now called sp3 hybrids.

https://www.boundless.com/chemistry/textbooks/boundless-chemistry-textbook/advanced-concepts-of-chemical-bonding-10/valence-bond-theory-81/sp3-hybridization-361-590/

I also believe that part of the efficiency of a coating has to do with what material it is rubbing against. A mystic black BCG running against an upper that is coated in Microslick(the inside) or something similar would be phenomenal. I know LWRC uses it and I also had it applied to the upper on my last build. Heat is the enemy so reducing it means longer wear life.

GOST
27 April 2015, 07:04
I also believe that part of the efficiency of a coating has to do with what material it is rubbing against. A mystic black BCG running against an upper that is coated in Microslick(the inside) or something similar would be phenomenal.

The machining inside of the Lantac UAR is the smoothest I've seen by far.

Aragorn
27 April 2015, 18:46
I also believe that part of the efficiency of a coating has to do with what material it is rubbing against. A mystic black BCG running against an upper that is coated in Microslick(the inside) or something similar would be phenomenal.

That got me thinking. I went looking for some numbers, apparently C-110 (Microslick) has a coefficient of friction of .417 when worn in and bearing on stainless steel. So... when paired with a cryptic coating bcg...? Probably as you stated, phenomenal. I've got a San Tan upper heading my way. I'll get it micro slicked and we'll find out.

Stone
27 April 2015, 19:02
I also had the inside and outside of my buffer tube Microslicked as well. I was sending it all off for Cerakote at the same time so I figured what the hell. A little overkill? Maybe, but the rifle has functioned absolutely flawless. A little added reduced friction against the buffer and return spring isn't a bad thing. Also the stock slides in and out like a wet dream. I believe the guy who did the work is on this forum, his name is Ben, AKA Hardeight, and owns Lockhart Munitions. Good dude and does high end work!
http://lockhartmunitions.com/staff.html

Cleaning any area like the upper that is Microslicked is a breeze. All the carbon and old lube just wipe right off with a rag.

Aragorn
27 April 2015, 19:17
I'm already so far past overkill, may as well do that too. Right now it seems the big thing in this area is wondering when I'll be able to order the Ti bcg.

Stone
27 April 2015, 19:28
Yeah I have been watching their site as well. Seems like its been unavailable for a long time now. Have you tried contacting them to see what's up? I am just looking for the standard BCG in Mystic black but it looks like everything in Mystic Black is a no go. Any special reason you are going with the Titanium?

Aragorn
27 April 2015, 19:37
Anything that isn't NiB or phosphate is unavailable. No I haven't contacted them yet. Guess I should put that on the to do list.

Aragorn
27 April 2015, 19:45
Any special reason you are going with the Titanium?

Missed this. Yeah, going for a super smooth light recoiling system. 17" barrel, rifle gas, lightweight bcg and buffer.

Here's the build thread if you want details. It's uh, long winded.

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?7596-Classy-and-experimental

GOST
27 April 2015, 19:51
If you're contacting them you should see if they would coat the inside of the San Tan upper also.

Aragorn
27 April 2015, 19:53
Guess it never hurts to ask. Man THAT would be slick.

...literally

Stone
27 April 2015, 19:54
Oh hell Yeah!!

Stone
27 April 2015, 20:01
Missed this. Yeah, going for a super smooth light recoiling system. 17" barrel, rifle gas, lightweight bcg and buffer.

Here's the build thread if you want details. It's uh, long winded.

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?7596-Classy-and-experimental

Very nice, sounds like a rock solid build! The only thing I would add is V7's INCONEL gas tube. http://www.v7weaponsystems.com/collections/frontpage/products/v7-extreme-environment-gas-tube

Aragorn
27 April 2015, 20:09
Very nice, sounds like a rock solid build! The only thing I would add is V7's INCONEL gas tube. http://www.v7weaponsystems.com/collections/frontpage/products/v7-extreme-environment-gas-tube

I *briefly* considered that, but inconel is heavy and 70$ is a lot for a part that I wouldn't expect failure from. I've got a melonited one coming with the upper. ;)

There was a vid posted semi recently where they did full auto 30 and 50 round mag dumps through a gun until failure. Oddly it was the barrel that ruptured and not the gas tube.

Stone
27 April 2015, 20:18
Cool, the melonited ones are awesome as well. Its what I used on my last build.

Aragorn
28 April 2015, 09:38
Ok here's the word. It won't be much help.

I called Cryptic and they had no solid timeframes. They were very polite but I got what seems to be the canned answer "It depends on production schedules."

I may have gotten slightly lucky though, when I told them I was after a Ti they said they currently had 3 in the works and put me down to get one of them. So that's cool. [:D]

ETA: Oh yeah. They won't do an upper.

Stone
6 January 2017, 09:19
Hey Viper, any long term updates available?

VIPER 237
6 January 2017, 11:38
Hey Viper, any long term updates available?


Yikes I forgot about this thread haha. I did do a second 10k test and I should have some photos of the bcg's somewhere.

Stone
6 January 2017, 12:25
Sweet! Looking forward to it.

Stone
19 April 2017, 15:05
Yikes I forgot about this thread haha. I did do a second 10k test and I should have some photos of the bcg's somewhere.

Is that 20K on the original bolt?