Forward Controls Design LDFA

[GOST]

Low Drag Forward Assist

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t31.0-8/10866063_338842869650782_6732334418116453758_o.jpg ?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9

Specifically designed and purpose built for AR15s and M16s with ambidextrous charging handles, the LDFA is a snag-free rimless forward assist with a small footprint. The design philosophy of the LDFA follows the evolution of life on planet: things that are useful and often called on become more prominent, things that are rarely used either become smaller, or disappear in time.

There has been ongoing discussions regarding the relevance of the forward assist. Like it and use it, or not, it is found on standard AR upper receivers. We don't want the forward assist to go away, we'd rather have it and not need it, than the other way around. The LDFA does not have a rim on the plunger and is smaller than a standard forward assist. More importantly, on an AR15 or M16 equipped with an ambidextrous charging handle, when the user pulls on the right latch to load or reload the weapon, the rimless design allows for fluid rearward movement of your hand and charging handle, without snagging on your finger or fingernail.

The smaller footprint of the plunger face does not impact its usability.

Available in 4340 steel bar stock and parkerized, it weighs in at 0.679 oz (factory FA weighs 0.715 oz)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/11067445_361364314065304_7697470855551228340_n.jpg ?oh=8bc57680819333bd2e33ab54b1a14ac6&oe=55D6590E&__gda__=1437231551_0c3168da3c804faed9b4194956f0782 1

http://www.rainierarms.com/forward-controls-design-ldfa-low-drag-forward-assist

Also available in Grade 2 bar stock Ti, and weighs in at 0.430 oz (factory FA weighs 0.715 oz)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10422211_361364937398575_5171439065880737832_n.jpg ?oh=d026e000937b88b537b861a0daf99d2a&oe=55E534DC&__gda__=1436555349_7e81c786f39913c53f0bcbfcdc6cef1 5

http://www.rainierarms.com/forward-controls-design-ldfa-ti-low-drag-forward-assist-titanium

[GOST]

I really like the idea, I see one of these in my future.

[Txfilmmaker]

I really like the idea, I see one of these in my future.

I have one for my build. I don't have any experience with ARs, but I like the concept.


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[Dstrbdmedic167]

looking forward to getting one of these.

[RogerRonas]

Have a couple of ar's that could use this.

[Computalotapus]

I know ride has some stuff from these guys and I ordered one of these for the precision build

[Ride4frnt]

Don't have my hands on these yet, but the mag buttons will be used on all of my guns.

[Stone]

looking forward to getting one of these.

Ahhh, fun with puns...[:D]

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Ahhh, fun with puns...[:D]

Hehe

[Stone]

I like their bolt catch release as well. http://forwardcontrolsdesign.com/ABCR-Augmented-Bolt-CatchRelease-for-AR15M16_p_24.html

Anybody know where to get one?

[Computalotapus]

I like their bolt catch release as well. http://forwardcontrolsdesign.com/ABCR-Augmented-Bolt-CatchRelease-for-AR15M16_p_24.html





Anybody know where to get one?



Got mine at tactical link. At the time rainier didn't have them stocked. I think you can pick it up at RA now

http://www.rainierarms.com/forward-controls-design-ldfa-low-drag-forward-assist

[Ride4frnt]

I like their bolt catch release as well. http://forwardcontrolsdesign.com/ABCR-Augmented-Bolt-CatchRelease-for-AR15M16_p_24.html

Anybody know where to get one?

Abc/r went to tactical link, rainier, red barn armory and high velocity arms today. Can't order yet but you can get one from those dealers probably later this week

[Pyzik]

On the list for my Troy WEVO upper. The poor house sucks.

[din]

Don't have my hands on these yet, but the mag buttons will be used on all of my guns.

Mine are en route right now. As soon as the bolt catch shows up on shelves there's gonna be another order, hopefully this week. With all the parts coming out and my inability to stick with a decision, I'm going to have enough parts for three more builds by the time I get the lower I'm waiting on.

[Thompson]

I'm going to have enough parts for three more builds by the time I get the lower I'm waiting on.
Oh no, not another build [BD] lol

I think out of everything created by Roger thus far, the ABC/R is what I'm looking forward to the most.

[WHSmithIV]

I'm kind of ambivalent on forward assists. I've never actually needed to use one. My 5.56/.223 with the Phase 5 billet receiver set doesn't have a FA. The upper receiver isn't designed to bother with one. The original M16 wasn't designed with one either. It was something the Army wanted added.

My 7.62x39 pistol build does have a forward assist. Somehow, considering it's been built for 7.62x39, I have a sneaky suspicion that it may actually be needed someday on that pistol.

[Eric]

For those folks that are buying these, what problems have you experienced with your current one that this will fix?

[Ride4frnt]

For those folks that are buying these, what problems have you experienced with your current one that this will fix?

It was designed for people who use ambi charging handles to cut down on banging your knuckle or catching your nail on the lip of a standard forward assist when charging the weapon.

[Eric]

It was designed for people who use ambi charging handles to cut down on banging your knuckle or catching your nail on the lip of a standard forward assist when charging the weapon. Right. So it would seem that this is directed at the 10% of the population that is lefty, then the smaller percentage that have ambi changing handles. I'm curious how many users have experienced problems. I've seen a few come through classes, but I've never used one. I envision some users buying one for no apparent reason, but I'm sure the manufacturer won't mind.

[Computalotapus]

For those folks that are buying these, what problems have you experienced with your current one that this will fix?



I'm not a lefty but I sometimes rack using my left hand on the right side of the receiver. Ripped a nail on more than one occasion. Bought it for that reason only.

[Duffy]

Thank you guys for the support and mention! :)

The LDFA was designed for the users that meet one or more criteria:

1. Use an ambi charging handle, more specifically, the ambi charging handle's right latch.
2. Have standard upper receivers. Uppers with forward located FA housing already addressed the issues LDFA does.

If you don't meet one or both criteria, the LDFA isn't more useful than a factory FA, other than being lighter (especially the Ti LDFA) and smaller.

Early on when I started to use an ambi charging handle, I found myself being much slower when I used the right latch to pull the CH back. The location of the FA housing and FA plunger is very close to the T handle of the CH. One day, I figured I might use enough force to rip off my fingernail.

I'm a right hand shooter, being careful with the right latch of the ambi charging handle isn't drilled into muscle memory because I only train shooting from my left side 5% of the time or less. The LDFA removes the possibility of self inflicted injury.

I started Forward Controls to bring purpose designed gear to folks that have specific needs, while these products don't have universal appeal, that's ok with me. Forward Controls, like when I used to run Battle Arms, isn't about profit, which is important to keep the company afloat and moving forward, it is about the users/customers. I get a lot of joy creating things from something drawn on crappy MS Paint, and seeing them come to actual products, it is a very fulfilling job :)

BTW, a lot of the design goals and execution can be found on the Design In Focus section on my site: http://forwardcontrolsdesign.com/Design-in-Focus_ep_45.html

Y'all please feel free to call me or email any time, thank you :D

[GOST]

Thanks for the input Roger. Look forward to seeing a lot more FCD here at Weapon Evolution.

[UWone77]

Right. So it would seem that this is directed at the 10% of the population that is lefty, then the smaller percentage that have ambi changing handles. I'm curious how many users have experienced problems. I've seen a few come through classes, but I've never used one. I envision some users buying one for no apparent reason, but I'm sure the manufacturer won't mind.

Remind me next time I see you, to slap you with my 10% left hand. [BD]

[Duffy]

The ABC/R has more universal appeal, but itself is also designed specifically for receivers with an ambi mag release, such as Norgon's Ambi-Catch, or HVA's AMR.

With or without an ambi mag release, the ABC/R's bottom paddle is much easier to use. Both the upper and lower paddles are angled. Since the inception of the angled paddles idea, several manufacturers had come out with some variations of the same concept, I'm not sure if any was designed for use with ambi mag release though.

While the ABC/R was not designed, nor meant to be a lightweight component (its larger paddles mean more weight), its weight is kept close to that of the factory paddle to avoid over tasking the bolt catch spring. The EMR and EMR-C (mag release buttons with curved and horizontally serrated surface) also pay attention to the weight issue (thus the shallow band below the curved surface).

Reviews for the ABC/R and LDFA should be out soon :D

[RogerRonas]

Hello Duffy,
Can't seem to find a dealer locator on your site. who are the dealers to order parts from?
Thanks
Roger

ps: not for immediate ordering but in the near future

[GOST]

I'm not Roger but Rainier Arms has FCD.

https://www.rainierarms.com/catalogsearch/advanced/result/?manufacturer[]=411

[Duffy]

http://forwardcontrolsdesign.com/Dealers_ep_41.html

Thanks GOST :)

[JGifford]

I really like it. Also, this makes a lot of sense as to why the original FA was designed as it was, and why some companies kept it. The slick top doesn't interfere with anything one would do "up top" on the weapon. Eugene Stoner...being proven right again and again as time goes on...RIP
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/pub/ProductImage/551600.jpg

[Duffy]

The original "tear drop" FA doesn't have a rim on top to catch on anything, but it does have a prolonged paddle below. The paddle's location is very good, but it could pose a potential snag hazard. Until ambi charging handles became available and more popular, the LDFA would have been seen as a solution in search of a problem, like some had already labeled the LDFA elsewhere.

For those that don't have and use ambi charging handles, the LDFA would be just that, a solution in search of a problem. But it was not designed for these users.

I'd remind folks that for healthy folks, a wheelchair is a solution in search of a problem. But it was not designed for them.

The LDFA is purpose designed for use with ambi charging handles. It also follows the evolution of life on earth: useful parts get more prominent and stronger, less useful parts get smaller or go away. I don't want the FA to go away, only out of the way of my knuckle and fingernail :)

The business development manager at War Sport really likes the LDFA, he shared something with me that validates my "better to have and not need, than to need and not have" position on the FA. He said he had jumped out of too many helicopters and APCs to ever take a rifle to war without an FA. Simple and to the point statement from an experienced Army officer, I have zero experience jumping out of either, my position on the FA is derived from analysis, not experience.

In the civilian world, the FA may seem like an appendage from an era gone by. While we have fads like lightweight, super lightweight, slim handguards, different accessory attachment methods, it seems to me that for the war fighters, reliability is still king.

The FA doesn't make an AR or M16 more reliable, but the absence of it could mean removed ability/feature you might wish you had someday.

[UWone77]

The original "tear drop" FA doesn't have a rim on top to catch on anything, but it does have a prolonged paddle below. The paddle's location is very good, but it could pose a potential snag hazard. Until ambi charging handles became available and more popular, the LDFA would have been seen as a solution in search of a problem, like some had already labeled the LDFA elsewhere.

For those that don't have and use ambi charging handles, the LDFA would be just that, a solution in search of a problem. But it was not designed for these users.

I'd remind folks that for healthy folks, a wheelchair is a solution in search of a problem. But it was not designed for them.

The LDFA is purpose designed for use with ambi charging handles. It also follows the evolution of life on earth: useful parts get more prominent and stronger, less useful parts get smaller or go away. I don't want the FA to go away, only out of the way of my knuckle and fingernail :)

The business development manager at War Sport really likes the LDFA, he shared something with me that validates my "better to have and not need, than to need and not have" position on the FA. He said he had jumped out of too many helicopters and APCs to ever take a rifle to war without an FA. Simple statement coming from an experienced Army officer, I have zero experience jumping out of either, my position on the FA is derived from analysis, not experience.

In the civilian world, the FA may seem like an appendage from an era gone by. While we have fads like lightweight, super lightweight, slim handguards, different accessory attachment methods, it seems to me that for the war fighters, reliability is still king.

The FA doesn't make an AR or M16 more reliable, but the absence of it could mean removed ability/feature you might wish you had someday.

Very well stated Roger.

Personally, I think the LW trend has gone overboard the last 3 or 4 years. Most of my guns have F/A's and will continue to do so. I'm not a warfighter, but I don't find any negatives in having a F/A.

[Duffy]

Thank you :) I look at the LW and super LW movement with mixed feelings. Some are attempt at reducing weight while maintaining versatility and reliability, some appear to be engineering exercises to see what can be achieved, no matter the cost.

There's nothing wrong with these exercises, they're not for me but they're not meant to be for everyone.

When a design adds a feature but also either adds a problem, or remove another feature in so doing, I drop the design. The benefits must outweigh the shortcomings, or there is little point in it. Not everyone sees things that way though.

The LDFA's rimless design reduces its plunger face's surface area, so it's not without any compromise. In view that many of use don't use the FA, its reduced surface area is deemed acceptable, especially when the reduced area doesn't impart any real difference when in use.

[UWone77]

I find that the LW movement has some merit, but most of the time I'm confused on what people are trying to accomplish. If they have a purpose in mind, say building the lightest gun possible, then yes go for it.

Too many times though, I see people building guns with some lightweight parts, but those gains are negated by going with heavier parts in other areas. Prime example is someone I saw at a LGS recently who built up a BAD LW set, but used a UBR stock, Government profile barrel, ect.

Back on topic... I'm looking forward to seeing what else you have on the drawing boards. [:D]

[Pyzik]

Too many times though, I see people building guns with some lightweight parts, but those gains are negated by going with heavier parts in other areas. Prime example is someone I saw at a LGS recently who built up a BAD LW set, but used a UBR stock, Government profile barrel, ect.

Now that's just being silly.

[Computalotapus]

I find that the LW movement has some merit, but most of the time I'm confused on what people are trying to accomplish. If they have a purpose in mind, say building the lightest gun possible, then yes go for it.

Too many times though, I see people building guns with some lightweight parts, but those gains are negated by going with heavier parts in other areas. Prime example is someone I saw at a LGS recently who built up a BAD LW set, but used a UBR stock, Government profile barrel, ect.

Back on topic... I'm looking forward to seeing what else you have on the drawing boards. [:D]


Ha. I don't like to consider my rifles LW builds, I think of them as lighter than standard tho. Personally around 6.5lbs with a RDS is about perfect for what I use my rifle for.

I have one of the LDFAs and I am very please with it and would purchase it again if it fit my build requirements. I too am looking forward to what else comes out of FCD

[Duffy]

When I was with BAD, which makes many of the OIP (Ounce is Pounds) super LW carbine components, folks kept asking for ability to mount backup sights, rails on the handguard, etc. that were omitted in order achieve a sub 4 pounds AR.

So here we have a misunderstanding of purpose and execution. The OIP isn't meant for everyone, so it's not built for everyone. It is for folks that appreciate the super light weight that heretofore had not been attempted or fully achieved, and seeing the work that was put in to reach the objective, which was quite a lot. The OIP carbine doesn't make too many compromises that would affect reliability, others that went overboard with skeletonizing make me scratch my head lol.

[six8]

When I was with BAD, which makes many of the OIP (Ounce is Pounds) super LW carbine components, folks kept asking for ability to mount backup sights, rails on the handguard, etc. that were omitted in order achieve a sub 4 pounds AR.

So here we have a misunderstanding of purpose and execution. The OIP isn't meant for everyone, so it's not built for everyone. It is for folks that appreciate the super light weight that heretofore had not been attempted or fully achieved, and seeing the work that was put in to reach the objective, which was quite a lot. The OIP carbine doesn't make too many compromises that would affect reliability, others that went overboard with skeletonizing make me scratch my head lol.
Nice to see you around again, Duffy. Good luck with the new company!

[Duffy]

Thank you, it's good to be back, I missed many of the things I used to do while I put myself in exile (before my new company had products to offer) :)

[Stone]

Abc/r went to tactical link, rainier, red barn armory and high velocity arms today. Can't order yet but you can get one from those dealers probably later this week

Thanks for the tips guys! Keeping my eyes on those sites...

[Txfilmmaker]

I bought the LDFA and the EMR-C. The LDFA seemed like a good idea for this lefty or anyone using an ambi charging handle. I will be paying attention to FCD, as well. If I get the ABC/R, FCD will take the lead for most parts from one manufacturer on my build. Right now FCD & BAD are tied at two each. :)


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[Duffy]

We're collaborating with another small but innovative company to bring another ambidextrous control component to the market.

We'll be tackling the SCAR system for a bit after that :)

[UWone77]

We're collaborating with another small but innovative company to bring another ambidextrous control component to the market.

We'll be tackling the SCAR system for a bit after that :)

The cat is already out of the bag... but great collaboration between you two. Can't wait to see what you guys come up with.

[JGifford]

The original "tear drop" FA doesn't have a rim on top to catch on anything, but it does have a prolonged paddle below. The paddle's location is very good, but it could pose a potential snag hazard. Until ambi charging handles became available and more popular, the LDFA would have been seen as a solution in search of a problem, like some had already labeled the LDFA elsewhere.

For those that don't have and use ambi charging handles, the LDFA would be just that, a solution in search of a problem. But it was not designed for these users.

I'd remind folks that for healthy folks, a wheelchair is a solution in search of a problem. But it was not designed for them.

The LDFA is purpose designed for use with ambi charging handles. It also follows the evolution of life on earth: useful parts get more prominent and stronger, less useful parts get smaller or go away. I don't want the FA to go away, only out of the way of my knuckle and fingernail :)

The business development manager at War Sport really likes the LDFA, he shared something with me that validates my "better to have and not need, than to need and not have" position on the FA. He said he had jumped out of too many helicopters and APCs to ever take a rifle to war without an FA. Simple and to the point statement from an experienced Army officer, I have zero experience jumping out of either, my position on the FA is derived from analysis, not experience.

In the civilian world, the FA may seem like an appendage from an era gone by. While we have fads like lightweight, super lightweight, slim handguards, different accessory attachment methods, it seems to me that for the war fighters, reliability is still king.

The FA doesn't make an AR or M16 more reliable, but the absence of it could mean removed ability/feature you might wish you had someday.
He would be the first "BTDT" guy I've heard quoted that said anything about a forward assist being useful, necessary, or desirable in any way. I simply view it as another part that can break and instantly deadline a rifle. That said...you can't find very many rifles without it, so I just want the most tasteful one made from the least likely to break components. I never use it. Never have. Never will. See zero value in it. But it's there...so lets throw a microskirt and some stilettos on it and see if we can't at least make it a SEXY worthless bimbo.

[JGifford]

I find that the LW movement has some merit, but most of the time I'm confused on what people are trying to accomplish. If they have a purpose in mind, say building the lightest gun possible, then yes go for it.

Too many times though, I see people building guns with some lightweight parts, but those gains are negated by going with heavier parts in other areas. Prime example is someone I saw at a LGS recently who built up a BAD LW set, but used a UBR stock, Government profile barrel, ect.

Back on topic... I'm looking forward to seeing what else you have on the drawing boards. [:D]

The UBR stock and .gov barrel likely swings very well, and the touch of forward weight lends to stability vs. a pure LW barrel. Think of a rifle like a sports car. Look at the Porscha. Very ass-heavy car. Now look at the Corvette. 50/50. Now consider that some cars are 50/50 and handle VERY differently...because the weight is pushed either forward, or away from their centre. You can greatly change the way a car performs when trail-braking into a corner (terrible idea with Porscha unless you desire a 360*+ panoramic...works well in Corvette) or accelerating out of a corner (Mandatory in Porscha, handle with precision/care in Corvette), ALL while both of these cars weigh within about 100# of each other...Further, if you push the weight out, or pull it in...all while keeping 50% of the weight over each axle. You can make the car want to rotate, or want to straighten. Make it lively, or make it calm. Then comes lengthening of the wheelbase, and an even greater effect on stability. A rifle may not be a car, but the concept is identical, as are many of the physics cause-effects between the two. It's not what it weighs (GTR...) that necessarily determines how quick it will handle, but WHERE that weight is, and how the end-user plans to manage it with their "software".

This man does not likely shoot this rifle because it handles like a pregnant camel.
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2681/brm3g5.jpg

That rifle looks like a Porscha to me. Heavy back, light front. Very lively response from steering input. A bit easy to over-swing a target if you're not dialed in like that shooter is, but once mastered, lightning fast...even with his "incongruously heavy buttstock"...which probably makes the rifle handle faster, actually.

[UWone77]

Eh, I kind of see your point.

I love UBR's and Govt Profile barrels. I don't think I need to spend $500 on a BAD Receiver set to get the performance I want. A Forged Honda will do the trick.

[JGifford]

Eh, I kind of see your point.

I love UBR's and Govt Profile barrels. I don't think I need to spend $500 on a BAD Receiver set to get the performance I want. A Forged Honda will do the trick.

S2k was an amazing drivers car. I enjoy most good rides. My old c6z still holds a special place. My one and only legit supercar. Likely ever.

[GOST]

My super car is a Nissan Note.

[Duffy]

JGifford, I haven't heard of the FA deadlining the weapon, but think it could happen in just the right circumstance with all the ingredients Murphy could dole out, but then the same could be said of a few components that are exposed to the elements as well :)

[Deadwing]

My super car is a Nissan Note.

Super fuel efficient, that is. [BD]

[JGifford]

JGifford, I haven't heard of the FA deadlining the weapon, but think it could happen in just the right circumstance with all the ingredients Murphy could dole out, but then the same could be said of a few components that are exposed to the elements as well :)

The internals come apart or break and lock it up tight. (Pawl pin)
The original m16 had no external plunger. The forward assist was the half moon. Cut out in the carrier. Fits the mk1 thumb and has 0 moving parts. Forward manipulation was limited by human ability and prevented users from making a bad situation worse via hamfisted wailing. You didn't think it was there just because it was a relief for the door detent, did you?

[JGifford]

My super car is a Nissan Note.

No stress brother, I traded my rocket ships for a 360hp awd suv. It's decent. But not fast. What it is is amazing in snow and ice in the mountains I moved to.

[GOST]

I have an SUV also, it's an Acura MDX. Wife usually drives it though. She doesn't like it when I take it to my range to shoot, it comes back with cow manure on it. I drive the Note cause it only cost me $15 in gas every 2 weeks, the savings goes into the ammo fund.

[Duffy]

Nope I do know the shape in the carrier facing the dust cover wasn't a coincidence, and a form of forward assist already existed in that shape before the FA in its current housing came along.

As to its preventing the users from doing something stupid, of that I'm not sure whether it's by design, or simply a result of its shape that happens to prevent users from exerting too much force on it.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b548/Dstrbdmedic167/LDFA_zpsd1gzy8yw.jpg

[GOST]

That titanium LDFA looks nice, is it going in the UAR?

[Dstrbdmedic167]

That titanium LDFA looks nice, is it going in the UAR?

Yep along with the unfinished ABC-R(f) and the EMR or EMR-C

[JGifford]

Still waiting for a Ti DLC version. I hate raw Ti.

[Deadwing]

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b548/Dstrbdmedic167/LDFA_zpsd1gzy8yw.jpg

Nice shot, man! Those are made by Northtech Defense for Forward Controls, aren't they? I've got a couple of the NTD titanium forward assists i'm thinking about customizing with a little heat anodizing just for something different.

I did manage to score a couple of ABC-R(f)s from the batch Rainier Arms got. They are little works of art. Looks like i need to build a new lower. :P

[Duffy]

Northtech Defense does make the LDFAs for us [:)]
They will also make the ABC/R (billet) for us as well.

For folks that don't want a shiny component on a camo or black AR, there's the black oxide coated 17-4 stainless steel LDFA, the weight is still less than a factory FA (due to its rimless design and the shallow band next to the plunger's tip) [:D]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/LDFA%205_zpsyyz2xocx.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/LDFA%205_zpsyyz2xocx.jpg.html)

[din]

Duffy, I'd swear I saw a black Ionbond LDFA on one of your dealers' sites, but it's been sold out forever. Is that still a thing?

[Duffy]

Indeed, it's on tacticalink.com. It was delayed and then never got done, now it's too late and expensive to send the complete Ti LDFAs to get coated, so we'll have to wait till the next LDFA-Ti production [BD]

[JGifford]

Indeed, it's on tacticalink.com. It was delayed and then never got done, now it's too late and expensive to send the complete Ti LDFAs to get coated, so we'll have to wait till the next LDFA-Ti production [BD]

ETA on that?

[Duffy]

Next year probably [BD]

LDFA is the kind of product that is narrowly focused on a range of AR users:

Folks that have ambi charging handles

Folks that have uppers with a forward assist, which is not forward positioned (closer to the ejection port) like the Vltor MUR

Folks that still value the functions of the FA

Combined with our still small market presence and name recognition, we're not selling as many LDFAs, which I had a good feeling would be the case, but it didn't stop me from making them, money was never the objective.

Folks that find it to be a useful component, and this is mostly left hand shooters, and right hand shooters that practice shooting from their weak side, are the reason they were made [:)]

[din]

Roger, I'm happy to wait until next year for one of the black ones, just so I have another corrosion-free part on the outside of the AR I built for hunting. I'm not really worried about saving weight, I'm just trying to minimize the amount of exposed steel on that particular rifle, and it won't cost much more than having the FA on there now Cerakoted. I understand that isn't the target you were going for, but it works for my purposes, and I'm happy to support your company just because I like what you're doing. I just picked up my third ABC/R, one of the new forged ones, and as long as you keep making products that improve the interface with my firearms I'll keep buying them. Plus you've been helpful with advice, and I'll always keep giving my custom to companies with approachable, helpful owners.

[Txfilmmaker]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/13/3868f0967ca13390128065b0b40ec2f3.jpg

I have my LDFA and just received my ABC/R. :) Looking forward to finally building my rifle.


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[toolboxluis00200]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/13/3868f0967ca13390128065b0b40ec2f3.jpg

I have my LDFA and just received my ABC/R. :) Looking forward to finally building my rifle.


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Some one is pimping their AR

[Txfilmmaker]

:)


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[JGifford]

Next year probably [BD]

LDFA is the kind of product that is narrowly focused on a range of AR users:

Folks that have ambi charging handles

Folks that have uppers with a forward assist, which is not forward positioned (closer to the ejection port) like the Vltor MUR

Folks that still value the functions of the FA

Combined with our still small market presence and name recognition, we're not selling as many LDFAs, which I had a good feeling would be the case, but it didn't stop me from making them, money was never the objective.

Folks that find it to be a useful component, and this is mostly left hand shooters, and right hand shooters that practice shooting from their weak side, are the reason they were made [:)]

Damn you! But at least you're honest. I'll buy the black stainless one.

[Duffy]

Both the LDFA and ABC/R are a part of the AR evolution, it's fitting it should be discussed and posted on this forum that has evolution in its name.

Both the LDFA and ABC/R designs are partially based on natural selection and mutation. As the AR and its manual of arms evolve, so should its controls. The oft-neglected FA evolved into the LDFA by becoming smaller, and rimless to accommodate ambi charging handles. The ABC/R went the other direction, with its larger, angled and easier to access paddles to accommodate ambi mag catches.

So went the design philosophy that's thus reflected in the final product [:D]

[UWone77]

I need more FCD in my life.

[Duffy]

We just started the retail operation. I didn't want to do retail last year, but found that because of it, I'm missing a lot of customer interaction. It's easier to do wholesale only, but the missing opportunity to talk to customers is not helping to get my company name on the map.

Some folks might remember me but not know the new company, we're trying to reverse that :P

[UWone77]

Any hints or sneak peeks at what's next for FCD in terms of products for 2016?

[velocity2006]

Would be cool to see an entire line of small parts from you guys.

[Duffy]

Well I won't and can't make another selector or take down / pivot pins set (non-compete and other stuff with Battle Arms), have no interest in bringing another ambi charging handle to the market, but hopefully the EMR-A (ambi mag catch) that can be priced below the industry standard, Norgon Ambi-Catch.

Another project is not sexy at all, but something I'd like to have, not sure if it makes much sense to everyone else lol. It's not a firearms part, but is firearms (not exclusively AR) related [BD]

Mega's Slide Lock ambi charging handle and LDFA, like peanut butter and jelly :P
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/PBJ_zpsaqqsvzac.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/PBJ_zpsaqqsvzac.jpg.html)

[Duffy]

Thank you very much! I do what I can to give back to the community that's given me so much, I don't want to be here or other forums to push products only, it's not fun without the friendship and learning new things :P


Roger, I'm happy to wait until next year for one of the black ones, just so I have another corrosion-free part on the outside of the AR I built for hunting. I'm not really worried about saving weight, I'm just trying to minimize the amount of exposed steel on that particular rifle, and it won't cost much more than having the FA on there now Cerakoted. I understand that isn't the target you were going for, but it works for my purposes, and I'm happy to support your company just because I like what you're doing. I just picked up my third ABC/R, one of the new forged ones, and as long as you keep making products that improve the interface with my firearms I'll keep buying them. Plus you've been helpful with advice, and I'll always keep giving my custom to companies with approachable, helpful owners.

[UWone77]

I would love to see a FCD LPK. Using stainless steel detents, high quality springs, and of course existing FCD products.

Pair that to a CMC or Geissele Trigger Offering, BAD Pins/Selectors, it maybe pricey, but above and beyond anything else available in the market.

[Duffy]

That might well happen, it was what I was planning on. I'd like to at least do some associated products bundling, e.g. Mega's CH with LDFA, Norgon Ambi-Catch or HVA's AMR with the ABC/R ;)

[Dstrbdmedic167]

I'd like to see a LPK from you guys!

[toolboxluis00200]

Meybe me and Duff need to join forces and make suppressors. [BD]

[toolboxluis00200]

I'd like to see a LPK from you guys!

Me two

[Duffy]

You guys have deep pockets, an LPK like this is gonna be spendy! [crazy] :P

[DutyUse]

I would love to see a FCD LPK. Using stainless steel detents, high quality springs, and of course existing FCD products.

Pair that to a CMC or Geissele Trigger Offering, BAD Pins/Selectors, it maybe pricey, but above and beyond anything else available in the market.


That might well happen, it was what I was planning on. I'd like to at least do some associated products bundling, e.g. Mega's CH with LDFA, Norgon Ambi-Catch or HVA's AMR with the ABC/R ;)

I'd love to see that. I agree with UW, the market is sorely missing a premium LPK. It sucks to either buy components individually (hassle and long waits), or a pricey DD or Colt LPK that your only using the springs and detents from.

[Duffy]

I'll get some prices today. The LDFA already includes the FA plunger spring and roll pin, but there's a lot of misc. springs and pins in an LPK.

Would you gents prefer a complete LPK, or just major upgraded / enhanced components? I haven't done the math yet, but such an LPK will be more than the most expensive enhanced LPK in the market.

The Geissele SSA alone is about the price of the most expensive enhanced LPK, when you throw in a BAD-ASS, BAD-EPS, EMR, LDFA, ABC/R-F, would anyone buy a Mercedes grade LPK for $400 or more? Substitute the trigger for G2S and it would bring the price down a bit, but I'm not so concerned about that, as there should be choices in triggers, not a single trigger.

[UWone77]

I'll get some prices today. The LDFA already includes the FA plunger spring and roll pin, but there's a lot of misc. springs and pins in an LPK.

Would you gents prefer a complete LPK, or just major upgraded / enhanced components? I haven't done the math yet, but such an LPK will be more than the most expensive enhanced LPK in the market.

The Geissele SSA alone is about the price of the most expensive enhanced LPK, when you throw in a BAD-ASS, BAD-EPS, EMR, LDFA, ABC/R-F, would anyone buy a Mercedes grade LPK for $400 or more? Substitute the trigger for G2S and it would bring the price down a bit, but I'm not so concerned about that, as there should be choices in triggers, not a single trigger.

I'm thinking you should probably offer trigger-less kits. You could have a drop down menu if someone wants to add the trigger on.

[Axlnut]

I'm thinking you should probably offer trigger-less kits. You could have a drop down menu if someone wants to add the trigger on.

Agreed. - also, maybe not include the LDFA - not only for being an upper part, but to people without FAs on their uppers, it's right back to raising the price because of a part that won't be used.

Enhanced LPK as listed with trigger selection, and maybe an E-UPK with a nice port door like V7?

[DutyUse]

I'd personally like to see a complete lpk minus fcg. Triggers are just one of those things guys are particular about, and your right it would skyrocket the cost probably out of the reach of most buyers.

[Duffy]

No option as an option, brilliant :D

Just realized the LDFA isn't a part of an LPK.

[Axlnut]

No option as an option, brilliant :D

Just realized the LDFA isn't a part of an LPK.

"Makes lower parts so nice he doesn't even know what usually comes in the bag.."

;-)

[Duffy]

Hey it was too early in the morning [BD] :P

[din]

I would love to see a FCD LPK. Using stainless steel detents, high quality springs, and of course existing FCD products.

Pair that to a CMC or Geissele Trigger Offering, BAD Pins/Selectors, it maybe pricey, but above and beyond anything else available in the market.

Nthing this, since it's what ends up happening with all my builds now anyway. It's a pain in the buttocks having to order a couple roll pins and random springs after you've individually sourced the selector, bolt catch, pins, et cetera, plus you end up spending a lot more on shipping when you have to go to a few different retailers to track down exactly what you want. I have no reason to buy a standard LPK at this point, since 90% of what's in there won't get used. Echoing the call to sell it without a FCG, too, since LaRue kinds spoiled me for triggers.

[six8]

I'm down for a LPK.... Please!

[RiverRat]

So here's how I see it: If you assemble a subkit of really good springs/detents/roll pins, lots of us would give it a VERY serious look. Bundle that with FCD catches/buttons and a BAD selector (and maybe pivot/takedown), its still very marketable as a freestanding SKU and probably generates meaningful uptake/trial of your components. Maybe there's space for good castle nuts in there, I'm not sure.

Trying to bundle grips, triggers, release levels, ambi catches, QR endplates to align with current LPK parts lists lands back where those sets fail - not providing choice. Most of us have specific preferences/[rice sensitivities on thise parts and we're not likely to pay premium prices for parts that somone specced just to "complete a kit." Providing flexible options for those parts MIGHT get some additional sales - but you're trading many more SKUs and inventory costs for what is probably nominal return, especially considering that a lot of those higher-priced bits tend to be purchased piecemeal during sales.

So you might want to consider a model for an "upgraded commodities" kit.

[Pyzik]

I am really liking the LDFA. I knew I would.
I'll probably end up putting one on my carbine too and it doesn't even have an ambi charging handle on that gun... at least right now anyway.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/697/22393649305_ae1e9fe65f_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/A7RiKP)
Mail Call (https://flic.kr/p/A7RiKP) by David Pyzik (https://www.flickr.com/photos/damagephotos/), on Flickr

[toolboxluis00200]

Ohhh man dose look nice

[Duffy]

Awesome picture David, can we use it (we'll keep the watermark there) [:D]

Re: LPK, given so many different parts and options available, maybe create a few major SKUs, wherein additional options are available.

We're a ways away from being able to do this. The retail operation just got started, we need to have some capital before embarking on LPKs. First thing that will happen is bundling related products, e.g. ambi charging handle with the LDFA, ambi mag catch with the ABC/R and EMR.

I made a decision when I left Battle Arms to do wholesale only with my new company so I could concentrate on other things. These things now done, I don't think we can grow beyond its current state without doing retail sales, if only to have more interaction with customers which was almost non-existent when we did wholesale only.

[UWone77]

Awesome picture David, can we use it (we'll keep the watermark there) [:D]

Re: LPK, given so many different parts and options available, maybe create a few major SKUs, wherein additional options are available.

We're a ways away from being able to do this. The retail operation just got started, we need to have some capital before embarking on LPKs. First thing that will happen is bundling related products, e.g. ambi charging handle with the LDFA, ambi mag catch with the ABC/R and EMR.

I made a decision when I left Battle Arms to do wholesale only with my new company so I could concentrate on other things. These things now done, I don't think we can grow beyond its current state without doing retail sales, if only to have more interaction with customers which was almost non-existent when we did wholesale only.

I think that's a good decision. Gotta have retail at least online. Support your dealers first, but having an online retail presence helps with feedback IMHO.

[Duffy]

Indeed. I exercise complete control on promotion prioritization, bundling (soon), price, etc., it's reason enough. But the biggest reason is we can't demonstrate the kind of company we are without customers interaction. Social media and forums can't wholly replace good old phone calls and chatting with folks.

A good review from a customer, be it about the product, buying experience, the way he was treated, can go a long way to bring awareness to the brand. I think the ABC/R and ABC/R-F are the most thought out, designed and well built AR15 bolt catches (my obvious bias notwithstanding), but it'll remain a well kept secret unless more folks see and hear about it.

The retail operation should help with that :)

Here's the LDFA in the environment for which it was designed.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/LDFABCM_zpsouasnvec.png (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/LDFABCM_zpsouasnvec.png.html)

[Pyzik]

Awesome picture David, can we use it (we'll keep the watermark there) [:D]

Go for it man.
Thanks again!

Would ALG & CMC triggers be a consideration?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[Joelski]

Awesome picture David, can we use it (we'll keep the watermark there) [:D]

Re: LPK, given so many different parts and options available, maybe create a few major SKUs, wherein additional options are available.

We're a ways away from being able to do this. The retail operation just got started, we need to have some capital before embarking on LPKs. First thing that will happen is bundling related products, e.g. ambi charging handle with the LDFA, ambi mag catch with the ABC/R and EMR.

I made a decision when I left Battle Arms to do wholesale only with my new company so I could concentrate on other things. These things now done, I don't think we can grow beyond its current state without doing retail sales, if only to have more interaction with customers which was almost non-existent when we did wholesale only.

Duffy, check out Primary Arms storefront software. They have multiple dropdowns (user configurable, I'm sure), that would allow people to Ala Carte their parts kit experience and compute the parts list and sale price at checkout. This way, all you have to do is stock inventory and batch the orders according to the printout. Sure, you have SKU's, but not custom ones; your ultimate parts kits become a list that the stock personnel fulfill and pack and ship. Between wholesale prices and your custom offering, you can work in a premium that's satisfactory for your bottom line and workable for the purchaser. This is probably elementary, but to my limited knowledge, I would think it would be the silver bullet for letting you do that custom setup, and once word gets around you have a one-stop deal for every price range of buyer, it'll pull commerce through your site.

[Duffy]

Thank you Joelski. I'm used to doing custom orders (BAD-ASS with 8 different levers, BAD-ASS / trigger combos, oh my lol)

I will consult the kind folks here before it happens :D

[JGifford]

Duffy, check out Primary Arms storefront software. They have multiple dropdowns (user configurable, I'm sure), that would allow people to Ala Carte their parts kit experience and compute the parts list and sale price at checkout. This way, all you have to do is stock inventory and batch the orders according to the printout. Sure, you have SKU's, but not custom ones; your ultimate parts kits become a list that the stock personnel fulfill and pack and ship. Between wholesale prices and your custom offering, you can work in a premium that's satisfactory for your bottom line and workable for the purchaser. This is probably elementary, but to my limited knowledge, I would think it would be the silver bullet for letting you do that custom setup, and once word gets around you have a one-stop deal for every price range of buyer, it'll pull commerce through your site.

I hate Primary Arm's website.

My opinion is that BCM has it nailed on the E-storefront side. I am not a BCM guy, either, and own no BCM gear. They just know how to build a website!

[Duffy]

LDFA-Ti-DLC will see the light of day sooner than expected, we're starting another production of LDFA-Ti just to get them DLC coated [BD]

Mark (peppered pixel on Facebook) had this LDFA-Ti anodized bronze, pretty cool ;)
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/bronzeLDFA_zpsm6oqqq1c.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/bronzeLDFA_zpsm6oqqq1c.jpg.html)

[Slippers]

I hate Primary Arm's website.

My opinion is that BCM has it nailed on the E-storefront side. I am not a BCM guy, either, and own no BCM gear. They just know how to build a website!

It's a volusion store, and they obviously put a little time into working on the theme. About time, too. Their old website was rather awful.

[Pyzik]

LDFA-Ti-DLC will see the light of day sooner than expected, we're starting another production of LDFA-Ti just to get them DLC coated [BD]

Mark (peppered pixel on Facebook) had this LDFA-Ti anodized bronze, pretty cool ;)
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/bronzeLDFA_zpsm6oqqq1c.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/bronzeLDFA_zpsm6oqqq1c.jpg.html)

That really screwed with my eyes for a second.
Very cool though!

[Pyzik]

Blah! That's the first time seen BCM's new page.... I am NOT liking it as far as a store front goes. Maybe I jsut need to get used to it.

[JGifford]

LDFA-Ti-DLC will see the light of day sooner than expected, we're starting another production of LDFA-Ti just to get them DLC coated [BD]

Mark (peppered pixel on Facebook) had this LDFA-Ti anodized bronze, pretty cool ;)
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/bronzeLDFA_zpsm6oqqq1c.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/bronzeLDFA_zpsm6oqqq1c.jpg.html)

Good. Where can I purchase one/reserve one/whatever the term I should use to insure that I have one?

[JGifford]

Blah! That's the first time seen BCM's new page.... I am NOT liking it as far as a store front goes. Maybe I jsut need to get used to it.

Oh. Screw that. I was unaware that they changed it. Fail. I meant the one that they had for the last 5 years.

[Duffy]

The LDFA's shallow groove, or band, close to the plunger's tip, is only there to break up the outline of the plunger, as the absence of the rim makes the plunger look rather long. The band serves no other purpose, maybe a tiny bit weight reduction.

It does have the effect of making the LDFA look like the rim of a cartridge [:D]

We're doing a small run only since we have quite a few LDFA-Ti (uncoated) already in the inventory. I'll announce it on FB and here when they're ready ;)

Please send me an email roger@starsforward.com and I'll reserve one for you :P

[Joelski]

Thank you Joelski. I'm used to doing custom orders (BAD-ASS with 8 different levers, BAD-ASS / trigger combos, oh my lol)

I will consult the kind folks here before it happens :D

I wasn't inteding to insult your expertise as its certainly far more advanced than mine in the sales aspect.


I hate Primary Arm's website.

My opinion is that BCM has it nailed on the E-storefront side. I am not a BCM guy, either, and own no BCM gear. They just know how to build a website!

I only meant the way they offer add-ons to things like scopes, where you can add rings, a different mount, lens covers, etc. without having to track down each individual item. Their old site was pretty archaic!

[Duffy]

Oh I didn't think it was an insult at all, it is in fact quite valid. I had to do a lot of the grunt work in the early years of BAD, I remember those days with pride and nostalgia, but it could be a pain.

Compared to all the components in a LPK, the 8 lever options of BAD-ASS is but a portion of available options for the LPK. I will rely on you guys for help, god knows I can come up with really goofy ideas lol [crazy]

[Deadwing]

Oh I didn't think it was an insult at all, it is in fact quite valid. I had to do a lot of the grunt work in the early years of BAD, I remember those days with pride and nostalgia, but it could be a pain.

Compared to all the components in a LPK, the 8 lever options of BAD-ASS is but a portion of available options for the LPK. I will rely on you guys for help, god knows I can come up with really goofy ideas lol [crazy]

If things like the EMR and ABC/R-F are goofy ideas, keep 'em coming, Roger! First class products. I picked up an LDFA when i ordered my EMRs. I need to figure out what upper to install it in...

[Duffy]

Thank you :D I'm working on getting EMR-A produced. The SCAR projects are complete, and waiting for their turn to be produced.

Thank you gents for your advice and support. Someof your ideas and recommendations have already been put into motion, they will be announced and shown here first when they're complete, and production units will be sent to folks that brought the ideas forth as a token of appreciation ;)

[Pyzik]

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/580/22293626129_13e8b051ce_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/zY1Emi)
FCD LDFA (https://flic.kr/p/zY1Emi) by David Pyzik (https://www.flickr.com/photos/damagephotos/), on Flickr

[DutyUse]

Awesome photo

[Duffy]

David, I should send you one to use, so you can install the other one ;)

[Pyzik]

David, I should send you one to use, so you can install the other one ;)

Oh, it's already being used. :)

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/611/22304265108_e2ed4df99e_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/zYXbWY)
LDFA (https://flic.kr/p/zYXbWY) by David Pyzik (https://www.flickr.com/photos/damagephotos/), on Flickr

[Duffy]

Awesome :) Are you a lefty?

[Pyzik]

Awesome :) Are you a lefty?

No, right. I just like things to be as ambi as reasonably possible. You never know...

[Duffy]

I'm with you :)
I am glad to see the LDFA is getting used and beat up :P

[Pyzik]

I'm with you :)
I am glad to see the LDFA is getting used and beat up :P
:) I do not baby my tools.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[Joelski]

Got one coming this week. Gonna put it on my battle kitty. Even though it doesn't match the rest of the controls, I prefer it to the matching Seekins part. NO MIM for my carb!

[Dstrbdmedic167]

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b548/Dstrbdmedic167/LDFA%20Closeup_zpsqbz9iol0.jpg

[DutyUse]

Nice rear end shot Medic

I could certainly tap that :D

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Nice rear end shot Medic

I could certainly tap that :D

[BD]

[toolboxluis00200]

Nice rear end shot Medic

I could certainly tap that :D

Lol

[Joelski]

Nice rear end shot Medic

I could certainly tap that :D

Are you sayin' because it's hot, or because it resembles a bullseye?

:D

Mom said you'd ruin your vision!

[Duffy]

Re: circular serrations of the LDFA, we went into more detail as to why they were retained in the Design in Focus section http://forwardcontrolsdesign.com/LDFA_ep_42-1.html

We have kept the factory forward assist plunger's concentric circular serrations. Various angles, contours, and serrations were considered, but we didn't deem any to be as versatile and accommodating (while some use the palm,, some may use the thumb to press the forward assist, and the angles of approach will vary) as the round forward assist's concentric circular serrations, first seen on the M16A2.

In short, we didn't try to score styling points, styling takes a backseat to function. We would be doing users a disservice to be different for the sake of being different for a component designed for hard use.

[Duffy]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/anodizedldfa_zpsmoevvviq.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/anodizedldfa_zpsmoevvviq.jpg.html)

[Mecha_Arms]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/anodizedldfa_zpsmoevvviq.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/anodizedldfa_zpsmoevvviq.jpg.html)

That's awesome. Nice composition.

[Duffy]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/anodizedldfa2_zpswl5hjv20.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/anodizedldfa2_zpswl5hjv20.jpg.html)

:)

[JGifford]

Quick question...on the Ti one's, what PART is Ti? The pawl? The thing that directly holds the pawl? The thing I touch ONLY, or all 3?

[Duffy]

Everything but the pawl (in black) and the pin for the pawl :)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/ti_zpsgy2xqht4.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/ti_zpsgy2xqht4.jpg.html)

LDFA-Ti-DLC will be available soon.

[DutyUse]

Cool I better start saving for a few

[JGifford]

Everything but the pawl (in black) and the pin for the pawl :)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/ti_zpsgy2xqht4.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/ti_zpsgy2xqht4.jpg.html)

LDFA-Ti-DLC will be available soon.

Weeks? Months?

[Joelski]

Just grab a MAP gas pencil torch and flame anodize it yourself. Gives it a look nobody else can duplicate.

[Duffy]

ETA is weeks, they're in production. Thank you guys for kicking the DLC FAs in gear again, I was going to wait till the next round of LDFA-Ti production, which would be months [BD]

BTW, now that the retail operation is up on our site, we give military, LE, and first responders (active or retired) discounts. Please email me roger@starsforward.com for a code [:D]