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View Full Version : What's the deal? (Varget)



alamo5000
23 April 2015, 20:25
I am looking online and there is barely any Varget to be had almost anywhere. I assume this applies to other powders as well. Either not in stock or way out in price gouging territory.

So what's the deal with all this? I can go into almost any store around here and buy ammo so that whole ammo shortage, price gouging, camping out at Wal Mart for a box of .22 craze is pretty much over, or so I thought.

That is until I've hunted around for some Varget.

Is it that that many people are now into reloading or is there some other reason for all this? One would think that Hogdon would churn out that stuff by the ton. I am not really sure what to make of it.

Slippers
23 April 2015, 20:56
People tend to snatch it up, despite there being better powders out there. For whatever reason, it's treated as a "do-all" powder, making it very popular.

alamo5000
23 April 2015, 21:23
People tend to snatch it up, despite there being better powders out there. For whatever reason, it's treated as a "do-all" powder, making it very popular.

There are of course other powders to try, I just don't want to spend all my waking hours developing a load every time.

That said I am no expert in powders so I would try almost anything within reason... but it seems like everything is out of stock...

If I can find a big tub of Varget I will set out and make like 1000 rounds of some nice stuff.

At first I only bought a pound of powder(s)... I bought two different kind just for the hell of it. Varget (which works well--and I finally made a load for it)... and IMR 4895 which I haven't even tried yet. I'm open to anything...but good lucky finding it.

Slippers
23 April 2015, 21:49
If you're set on varget, then I guess you'll just have to be patient. :)

I don't use it because it meters terribly in my dillon.

What bullets are you using? If 55 gr, you might consider H335 or WC844, since it's pretty common, meters well, and so many people use it that there's good load data.

If markm were around he'd recommend H322 or IMR 8208 for 77 gr smk. I personally use ramshot tac, since it was in the nosler data, and it's giving me great results for longer distances with 77gr nosler custom comps.

I don't mind working a new load up with different powder, but I like to buy at least 8 lbs at a time, since that lets me load about 2000 rounds.

Jerry R
24 April 2015, 07:56
What caliber do you use it for? I only use it for .243 in Pdog loads - very accurate. If doing .223 / 5.56 W748 might be a better choice. It meters very well and is good in small capacity cases. Bullet choice may be a determining factor as well. I only load 55 to 62 for the black rifles.

Former11B
24 April 2015, 08:16
If you can't find Varget, look for RE15. If you can't hit what you're shooting with either of those, time to stop

Slippers
24 April 2015, 08:32
If you can't find Varget, look for RE15. If you can't hit what you're shooting with either of those, time to stop

Only drawback with RE15 is it's pretty temperature sensitive.

SINNER
24 April 2015, 09:16
For accuracy I have found nothing as consistent as H322. Meters the best of any powder made IMO.

alamo5000
24 April 2015, 11:59
My deal is this:

I spent a month getting the load where I wanted it using Varget. I'm still not all the way done but its proven to work. That said I am in no way married to varget.

I really don't care what powder as long as it works.

The main goal is to create an accuracy round for my AR with a 69gr SMK. How I get there I really don't care.

Since this was my first time reloading accuracy rounds for a rifle I just bought a pound of if to test. Now that I'm getting close to doing a production run there is no powder to be found. Sold out all over the place. I want to get a big jug of it and be done with it. But it seems like the hoarders are getting it all.

I guess I need to get better at getting from point A to point B and just if I ever see a big jug of a "known" powder then to just go for it. On my first foray here though I didn't want to buy a ton of powder that I didn't like.

Seems to me that many powders are all sold out...

And fwiw I am totally open to different grain weights of bullets and all that. But as for now all the work I've put into it so far is with varget and 69gr SMK.

I guess at the end of the day I need to be patient and a big jug of varget will turn up eventually...I also need to get better at making a load that works....different powders and different bullets.

All that said though it seems like people are hoarding powder like its 22LR...

Slippers
24 April 2015, 12:15
It's generally a good idea to check the velocity and pressure signs with a new batch of powder, even if it's the same brand/type. There are variances from lot to lot.

Going forward, it's probably better to commit a little and get at least 4-8 lbs of whatever you buy.

alamo5000
25 April 2015, 09:14
If you can't find Varget, look for RE15. If you can't hit what you're shooting with either of those, time to stop

A local guy here has some #1 jugs of RE15 for $32 out the door. That's pretty close to what I paid for Varget. It's still not the best price but I might try it out.

Everything I've read online says it's 'temperature sensitive'... can anyone elaborate on that more? Is it going to burn faster when it's 105 degrees outside or what?

alamo5000
25 April 2015, 09:31
Also another question... if I get some RE15... I know the load in terms of Varget but since the powders are so close to each other in burn rate can I do a 1:1 load ratio. I am no where near the max. I just don't want to spend a whole other month getting me back on track.

24.3 grains of varget is getting me pretty decent results. Since that is my first actual rifle round I am just curious is all. I will probably start with 24.1 do 10 shots then 24.2 and then 24.3 etc...those jumps seemed to work well and let me know where in the ball park I am.

Then again on second thought my whole purpose here is to down my costs so I am really looking for a big bucket of powder at a decent cost. Right now I am sitting just under .40 cents a round... maybe .38 cents? If I get the stuff in bulk it drops to .33 cents.

Slippers
25 April 2015, 14:56
$32 per pound seems a bit high. I'm not familiar with current RE15 prices, though. It is usually in the mid 20s from what I've seen.

Temperature sensitivity is exactly that. It'll give you different velocity depending on if it's hot or cold.

Do you always ladder test in 0.1gr increments? If so, I can see why it takes you a month to work a new load up. Heck, my dillon powder drop is always +/- at least 0.1gr even with ball powder, so I could never aim for that kind of precision. You might consider opening up your increments to 0.5gr. Run a ladder test with 10 rounds through 5-6 increments, pick which one you like the best, and then go back and fine tune it a little if you feel the need. Normally I only spend two range days working a new load up. The first is a ladder test, and the second is confirmation. Sometimes it takes me longer to unload all my stuff and set up targets and the chronograph than it does to fire the rounds.

alamo5000
25 April 2015, 15:57
That's what I'm saying. The prices everywhere are super high. I found a place that has varget but I will pay about $35 a pound for it. I also did some google-fu and found one place that has a #5 jug of RE15 for $105. About $115 out the door...BUT its well over 2 hours away. I am hoping my friend can drop by and get some and bring it back.

Varget right now is about $35 per pound and if you get it in the big tubs the cheapest I've seen anywhere was about $29 a pound. The thing is many sites still have it listed for way less than that.

I'm thinking the right price should be about 25 bucks or less per pound...but the hoarders are getting it and other powders too.

As for the length of time the work up a load....my scale works in .01 grains....so I can load 24.34 grains just about every time...my main hindrance has been the weather and my work schedule. It has been weird. Tornadoes. Floods. Etc etc.

Now that I did one load I think I can do the next more quickly. I didn't want to go buck wild with it so my first go round I took it very slow. Now that I've done one I think I can be more aggressive with it.

With that being said when I see powder in big buckets I am just going to buy 2 or 3 different ones. That way I can have back up loads.

I also do want to try and get an accuracy load with a different grain weight of bullet. For now though I just need to be patient and find deals.

alamo5000
25 April 2015, 16:50
If I end up getting 3 big tubs of powder so far my choices are Varget, RE15, and H322. I only have experience with Varget...the rest are because I trust you guys :) but at the price I saw for RE15, Varget might be history at least until I see decent prices. My list can grow though.

Once I know what my options are I can look out for deals.

GaSwamper
25 April 2015, 17:35
If looking for accuracy CFE is tight stuff, if accuracy and versatility 8208. These powders win matches. Many like the Varget because you can practically scoop the case, brush off the top, and crunch the shit out of it ( just a joke, please don't) or some ole timer told it was the stuff in his day. Powder prices will forever swing crazy these days I think, when you see what you want better just bite the bullet and get it.

jymbeux
25 April 2015, 17:47
4064 and 4895 have been available in 8lb jugs in my area (greater Seattle/Tacoma) on a fairly regular basis. H4895 with nosler 55gr BT yielded 0.4in groups for me out of an 18" Blackhole Weaponry barrel. Might be another option to think about. 4064 data is available, I tend to use it for 308 more though. RE15 has also been available regularly, but only in 1lb kegs.. I wouldn't be surprised to start seeing more of the 4lb and 8lb jugs popping up sooner rather than later (unless we're talking pistol powders! Pistol powder has been fairly scarce locally still).

mustangfreek
25 April 2015, 22:02
Just a FYI , Powder Valley has 1lber's of varget in stock...[:D]