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Aragorn
25 April 2015, 17:27
Well I'm getting in deep with this one. What started out as a simple idea has blown up and blossomed into what's shaping up to be a top shelf component experimental build. Be prepared, this may turn into a wall of text.

I wanted to start shooting further and gain FPS. I also wanted to play around some and see just how smooth, flat, and soft I could keep the rifle while doing it. I also ALSO wanted to keep it reasonably light and well balanced, with respect to the fact this would be a longer rifle running a heavier profiled barrel than the ultra light ones currently in vogue.

Can I do it? Will it work? Well here's where I'm at.
Here's the build list and the why's.

UCWRG Billet lower. Why? Several reasons, not the least of which is just because it's cool and coveted. I like large magwells, and as a former machinist I can appriciate the immaculately clean, complex machine work this lower is laden with. I've also been an avid BAD lever user since inception and I'm eager to try the mag release/bolt hold open feature in comparison.

The grip is my stippled UCWRG Grip 23. I wanted to keep my Umbrella parts together and couldn't find another, so instead I jacked it from my other rifle and ordered a B5 to take its place.

The trigger is a Giessele SD3G. I love my SSA-E but want to see if I can go even faster with a trigger designed to do just that. I got the flat bow so my finger will never be confused as to which trigger it's on. I installed it with the 3.5# trigger spring.

Take down pins and safety are all from B.A.D. - No further explanation required.

The buffer system is a DD carbine length, with a carbine buffer and Springco "white" spring. More on this in a bit.

The upper will probably be a San Tan because I think it would look sweet with the Umbrella lower and is fairly light for a billet. I *may* try and hold off for an Umbrella upper just because Umbrella, but probably not.

The rest of the upper reciever group, this is where things are starting to get a little experimental for me. In the pursuit of soft and smooth I'll be running a 17" rifle gassed barrel pushing a lightweight bcg and buffer. Not something I've done before. 18" seems to be the magic length when it comes to velocity, with substantial velocity gains per inch up to that length, and marginal to lousy beyond. 17" will get me close, while being somewhat lighter and handier, but more importantly while being smoother/softer than an 18" on rifle gas.

The barrel is ordered once Black Hole contacts me for payment info. Specs on the barrel are 17" 1/8 twist, rifle length, .740 profile in front of the gas block and .780 behind with honeycomb fluting. Allegedly the honeycomb fluting is the best for stiffness and dampening vibration. I read an in depth article about it and the science seems sound, but we'll see. If nothing else it'll bring down barrel weight and look sweet while doing it. I've also seen several sources citing that BHW barrels tend to be fast which will be added bonus for me if it's true. I intend to chrono it and find out for myself.

Handguard will almost certainly be the new Mega wedge lock, probably in 14 or 16". It's supposed to be super light, Mega quality, and it'll let me use Magpul's M-lok rail panels. I'm huge on interface, and so far no keymod panels have struck me as super awesome.

The bcg is going to be a Titanium Mystic Black from Cryptic Coatings. The price makes me shudder, but Viper's reviews have been outstanding and it'll give me the lighter weight I'm after while supposedly being even smoother than the NiB bcg's I've shot and own. Being gorgeous is another perk and it'll look great with the other components I've spec'd.

This brings me back to the buffer assembly. I originally wanted to run a Vltor A5, strip down the buffer and put in lighter weights and use Springco's A5 spring, but when I called them to discuss this they said their A5 spring was only meant for the standard A5 weight buffer, and that it likely wouldn't be reliable with lightweight components and rifle gas. They recommended instead a carbine buffer and their "white" spring so that's what I got. I may still yet screw around though, by swapping out carbine weights into an A5 buffer and trying a Tubb Flatwire spring. I still need to call them about that.

Muzzle device... I'm not sure. I freaking love my EFAB, but for some reason still find myself considering a few others. Micor is no longer a thing so that rules them out. The national match A2 reportedly tightens up groups by about 1/4 MOA on about 1/4 of the rifles it's installed on... which really are not selling numbers to me. I could get a voodoo manimal A2 which would give A2 performance and a seamless look on the barrel. Again... not sure.

Optics, not sure here either. I'm wanting to shoot further so I want magnification and am already intent on running Dueck Defense offset irons. I haven't had the best luck with variable mag scopes and I certainly didn't appriciate the weight, at least not with the Nightforce 1-4x I used to have. Possibly an Acog. Maybe a TA11 for the eye relief and FOV, or a TA02 so I can control the intensity of the chevron. I'm not sure however if the battery compartment on the TA02 wouldn't block out the offset irons.

The sling will be the FTW carbine/long gun sling. It's pricy but looks to be super well made and with a special eye towards "slinging up" to help stabilize the gun.

Anyways, here's the pics of where I'm at...

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y419/Machpony/image.jpg1_zpsbanxx5t5.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Machpony/media/image.jpg1_zpsbanxx5t5.jpg.html)

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y419/Machpony/image.jpg2_zpsfsqlr2ip.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Machpony/media/image.jpg2_zpsfsqlr2ip.jpg.html)

Oh yes, the BCM end plate. The star makes it important since it's on an Umbrella lower. Umbrella, Resident Evil, S.T.A.R.s [BD]

Congratulations if you made it through all that. I'm open to opinions and input. [:D]

Dstrbdmedic167
25 April 2015, 18:33
Great start to a full rifle and youve done a great job with that lower! I will say its one of the nicest lowers as far as finish goes. Im very curious to see how the 17" barrel works for you. I love the honeycomb fluting that BHW does. I think im going to go with a CMT UPUH-1 upper for mine. The lines match really well. Handguard will probably be the SMOS MLock cerakoted in Sniper grey like my furniture. All in all I think you've got a great idea on how the build will pan out.

Aragorn
25 April 2015, 19:09
Thanks! Eager to see how yours turns out too. From what I've seen your color scheme is going to be pretty slick. I'm just going black since I'm not sure what else I'd do and I haven't made a legit EBR in awhile.

Gotta keep my eyes open for an Umbrella CH. I think it'd be a sweet match to the San Tan upper, and obviously branded to match the lower. You got a build thread up yet? I didn't see one.

Dstrbdmedic167
25 April 2015, 19:18
Thanks! Eager to see how yours turns out too. From what I've seen your color scheme is going to be pretty slick. I'm just going black since I'm not sure what else I'd do and I haven't made a legit EBR in awhile.

Gotta keep my eyes open for an Umbrella CH. I think it'd be a sweet match to the San Tan upper, and obviously branded to match the lower. You got a build thread up yet? I didn't see one.

Thanks and no I haven't done that I've just been adding pics to the umbrella thread as I go with pics. I'm thinking about one of those Rock Creek RA barrels for this build. still not 100% though.

Aragorn
26 April 2015, 11:00
The Rock Creek ought to be pretty awesome I'd think. 16"? What else are you looking at?

Dstrbdmedic167
26 April 2015, 11:11
The Rock Creek ought to be pretty awesome I'd think. 16"? What else are you looking at?

Yea 16" for this one. Also eyeing a NTD or BAD barrel as well. Of course it's hard to go wrong with a good RA match grade barrel.

Aragorn
26 April 2015, 13:46
I probably couldn't shoot the difference between any of them. I'd like to shoot the BAD just to see if/how much it opens up at high heat.

The RA seems like a lot of bang for the buck and limited runs push up cool points.

Cotton68spc
27 April 2015, 11:40
Very nice start can't wait to see you he end


Check me out on YouTube and Facebook

Stickman
27 April 2015, 18:18
That's good looking. I don't even have an Umbrella Billet Lower.

GOST
28 April 2015, 20:20
Did they give you timeline when to expect your Ti BCG?

Aragorn
29 April 2015, 08:13
Did they give you timeline when to expect your Ti BCG?

No, they just said they had 3 currently going through the works.

Kopis
29 April 2015, 08:19
that has got to be the sweetest looking lower Ive ever seen. I have a timney drop in on my pistol and got an SD3G after much review between the timney, tac-con and SD3G and i am highly disappointed how it feels compared to the timney. I cant shoot fast with it at all. Oh well, ill just go practice some more!

Aragorn
29 April 2015, 10:33
that has got to be the sweetest looking lower Ive ever seen. I have a timney drop in on my pistol and got an SD3G after much review between the timney, tac-con and SD3G and i am highly disappointed how it feels compared to the timney. I cant shoot fast with it at all. Oh well, ill just go practice some more!

I agree I do like how it looks so far. As for the SD3G, I'm still withholding judgement until I can shoot it. Thus far I like the flat trigger far better than I thought I would. The pull and "break" is certainly unique and I need to get some time behind it. I had considered a Wilson TTU but I've gotten to where any trigger over 4# feels heavy to me just because I've been behind an SSA-E for so long. The Rise Armament trigger seems cool, but I didn't know it was a thing until after I bought and installed the SD3G. My issue with IT however is that initial reviews are weighing pulls of around 5#, a good bit higher than the advertised 3.5. Damn I'd still love to try one though.

nCarnage
29 April 2015, 10:42
its so beautiful.

UWone77
29 April 2015, 10:48
Can't go wrong with the flat bow. My favorite trigger (depending on application of course) is the SD-C and the SD-E

Nice build, when I saw the stippling on the grip, it made me think... where's Battle Cock been lately?!

GOST
29 April 2015, 11:04
The Rise Armament trigger seems cool, but I didn't know it was a thing until after I bought and installed the SD3G. My issue with IT however is that initial reviews are weighing pulls of around 5#, a good bit higher than the advertised 3.5. Damn I'd still love to try one though.

I'm fighting the urge to try the Rise Armament trigger, but it is sexy. I do pretty well with the SD3G with the heavier springs so the 5 lbs. pull shouldn't bother me.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/RA-APT-trigger-3-651x282.jpg

Dstrbdmedic167
29 April 2015, 11:12
I'm fighting the urge to try the Rise Armament trigger, but it is sexy. I do pretty well with the SD3G with the heavier springs so the 5 lbs. pull shouldn't bother me.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/RA-APT-trigger-3-651x282.jpg

Go for it! Then post a review!

Aragorn
30 April 2015, 08:40
Go for it! Then post a review!

Or you know, we have the WEVO T&E program [BD]

Aragorn
30 April 2015, 08:41
Can't go wrong with the flat bow. My favorite trigger (depending on application of course) is the SD-C and the SD-E

Nice build, when I saw the stippling on the grip, it made me think... where's Battle Cock been lately?!

No idea, but I did that stipple job. [:D]

DutyUse
1 May 2015, 21:00
Well executed build so far! Everyone who shoots my stippled grip23 doesn't want to give it back..get use to it ;)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Aragorn
2 May 2015, 08:46
Got the San Tan upper and MAN! The lockup is TIGHT!

Tight as in I wasn't sure I'd be able to get the receivers together, or back apart. Some Slip 2000 was the magic I needed. Seriously though, together they feel like one piece of metal. Zero, and I mean ZERO play. Pics soon.

Aragorn
2 May 2015, 11:15
http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y419/Machpony/image.jpg1_zpsq6c9kffh.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Machpony/media/image.jpg1_zpsq6c9kffh.jpg.html)

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y419/Machpony/image.jpg2_zps1uyefunz.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Machpony/media/image.jpg2_zps1uyefunz.jpg.html)

Aragorn
2 May 2015, 11:41
Now I have a delimma. The receivers are EXTREMELY difficult mate and pull back apart. Enough so that I don't really care to deal with it every time I need to take down the gun.

Also a lot of the mating lines are pretty bad with the Umbrella lower, which actually visual pairs better with a forged.

*Sigh*

Wasn't expecting any of that. What to do?

tact
2 May 2015, 12:47
Now I have a delimma. The receivers are EXTREMELY difficult mate and pull back apart. Enough so that I don't really care to deal with it every time I need to take down the gun.

Also a lot of the mating lines are pretty bad with the Umbrella lower, which actually visual pairs better with a forged.

*Sigh*

Wasn't expecting any of that. What to do?

I ran into something similar so I know what you mean. I got a BAD lower which was forged and had a heck of a time finding an upper that had decent mating lines. A few I had tried just looked out of place. I ended up using a billet 2A upper that seemed to flow nice.

Aragorn
2 May 2015, 15:43
Well I requested an RMA from Rainier. I'm not gonna fight an upper the whole time I own it, especially since the mismatched lines are bugging me.

Throwing the Umbrella lower on my built up 14.5" upper, turns out I actually like the cleaner look of the forged upper anyways.

So I bought a Fathom. [:D]

To keep it clean and smooth I'm going to use a V7 smooth dust cover, and a Forward Controls forward assist.

UWone77
2 May 2015, 16:00
You're lucky you ordered that from RA vs anywhere else... who else takes returns based on... I didn't like the lines. [:D]

Aragorn
2 May 2015, 16:12
You're lucky you ordered that from RA vs anywhere else... who else takes returns based on... I didn't like the lines. [:D]

The veins popping out of my face while trying to pull the receivers apart had a good bit to do with it as well. :P

UWone77
2 May 2015, 16:18
The veins popping out of my face while trying to pull the receivers apart had a good bit to do with it as well. :P

Tolerance stacking :P

SINNER
2 May 2015, 21:28
Have any parts been installed on the upper? Ill give you cost + shipping to just send it to me.

Aragorn
2 May 2015, 22:03
Have any parts been installed on the upper? Ill give you cost + shipping to just send it to me.

Nothing installed at all. Just some Slip 2000. Rainier didn't send me an RMA yet so yeah let's make this happen. I'll shoot you a pm.

GOST
2 May 2015, 22:17
I've heard of some of these San Tan uppers being tight; would be interesting to see what the upper's lugs mic'd at.

DutyUse
3 May 2015, 16:41
I'm fighting the urge to try the Rise Armament trigger, but it is sexy. I do pretty well with the SD3G with the heavier springs so the 5 lbs. pull shouldn't bother me.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/RA-APT-trigger-3-651x282.jpg

Looks like a slightly revised elf 3gun trigger.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/03/040f205041fc364dacbbf78c91b2394b.jpg

SINNER
5 May 2015, 06:44
I've heard of some of these San Tan uppers being tight; would be interesting to see what the upper's lugs mic'd at.

I will let you know.

Aragorn
18 May 2015, 14:00
So this is going to be a lot less experimental than previously thought. Over the weekend I experimented with changing out and swapping/mixing various buffers and springs. This included a Carbine buffer, an H, an ST-T2, and a Vltor A5 standard weight. Springs were a Springco White, Springco Blue, a Tubb CS Flatwire, and a Springco Green (for the A5). All possible combinations were explored, except for the A5 which had to stay with its Green spring and in its own tube. Further, all combinations were explored in two rifles, a 14.5" and a 16" both on middy gas. The winner for smoothest was the ST-T2 on the Springco Blue spring, on both rifles. This kind of surprised me, as it was even smoother than my A5. Also, and I know most of you know this, but as buffer and spring weight were decreased, felt recoil became sharper.

The plan had been to run lightweight components (bcg/buffer) with the aim of reducing recoil via reduced reciprocating mass, as is popular among 3-gunners. However, it seems that without ALSO running a full on brake that this would be counter productive. This has caused something of a drastic left turn with in direction I'm going with this rifle. I've 86'd the plans for a 17" barrel as well as all plans to run lightweight components. Instead I'm just going to run an 18" rifle gas barrel. I KNOW Ill get 18" velocities out of an 18" barrel, and reliability margins will also be brought back into known safe regions.

After some searching, I'm now eyeballing the Daniel Defense S2W rifle gas barrel. Weights listed for this barrel however are all over the map, with Daniel Defense listing the 18" as being 2.18 lbs which is lighter than their listed weights for the same profile 16", and Primary Arms had the barrel listed as weighing in at 44.96 oz. Pretty big disparity. So I called DD and they told me it weighed 2.5 lbs with the pinned GB, which sounds pretty manageable. I recently shot a 20" BCM fluted SAM-R which was a hefty 42 oz, stripped. Built out and wearing a 15" Troy Alpha, it wasn't exactly what I'd call handy, but it wasn't SO bad either. Still though, I'd be more than happy coming in well under that weight. I'm still waiting to see specs on the new Mega Wedgelock once released, but I'm also now looking at the BCM KMR pretty hard as I KNOW it's light.

Also, I shot the Umbrella lower this weekend to get a feel for the SD3G trigger. Yup, it took some getting used to. Once acclimated though, MAN that trigger is fast. I also used it to shoot out to 300 yards, and actually prefer it over my SSA-E even for that. VERY satisfied.

I'm back to the drawing board on the BCG. I'd still like to try a Cryptic, but they haven't picked up their phone and are still out of stock. I just resorted to email and so I guess I'll see what they say. Also looking at the Mad Black BCG from MadCustomCoatings.

Also ALSO, I got to handle a Vortex PST 2.5-10 in a shop this weekend and quiet liked it. That'll probably be the scope I get, as I shot both a fixed 10x scope and a TA02 ACOG out to 300 this weekend and preferred the scope.

GOST
18 May 2015, 14:13
I'm a big fan of the SD3G also, it's currently my favorite. Have you decided on an upper receiver yet?

SINNER
18 May 2015, 14:22
I've heard of some of these San Tan uppers being tight; would be interesting to see what the upper's lugs mic'd at.

Five thousandths larger than any other upper I own. Exactly what I was hoping for. I have a well used SBR'ed lower that was sloppy with every upper I have tried. This fit like a glove.

Aragorn
18 May 2015, 14:23
I've got a Fathom forged sitting here that is at high risk of being used. Only reason I'd go another way is if I decide to be super anal because it's a LOT more grey than the Umbrella lower, even after being oiled.

GOST
18 May 2015, 14:43
My Lantac UAR has a nice black to it, it's not as dark as my BAD-15 lower though.

Aragorn
18 May 2015, 14:51
Yeah, I thought about the Lantac too, I just don't like huge prominant billboard logo's on uppers.

Aragorn
25 May 2015, 22:37
Ok guys. I need help.

Since nixing the idea of a 17" barrel and lightweight components I've been in something of a state of flux.

I still want to shoot farther and preferably with more oomph in velocity for better terminal effect, but I've kinda become lost in choosing a barrel.

I'm half thinking about just saying Screw It and getting a KAC LPR Mod. 2 upper. That would be pretty freaking sweet, but I'd be inclined to install a thinner/lighter forend such as maybe a KMR to reduce weight and bulk (I'm accustomed to NSR and CMR profiles) if I even could, and I find myself concerned about the Krieger barrel life. I've read that they start to lose accuracy after only a few thousand rounds and rebarreling a KAC E3 doesn't sound appealing. This kind of lead me down memory lane comparing SS barrels vs. chrome lined.

Polygonal rifling tends to last longer than standard in SS, so there's Noveske and Black Hole.

Or... I could go melonite, or chrome lined. Does anyone make an 18" chrome lined barrel...?

Turns out yes. Criterion was an interesting find, an offshoot of Krieger that offers 18" chrome lined barrels that are reportedly .5 MOA. Heavy though.

For melonite there's Voodoo Innovations, who apparently makes other offerings besides pencil profiles, and does so promising outrageously high muzzle velocities. Palmetto has 18"s in both the middy and rifle gas variety. Both also heavy. But man, if their velocity claims are true... check out their charts at the bottom of this page.
http://vtsupply.com/adams-arms-5-56-14-5-medium-gas-length-lite-625-1-7-ar15-barrel.html

Or... I could get the KAC. Problem is still the same as mentioned above. I COULD send it to WMD and have the barrel melonited, but that's a lot to invest when I'm also thinking of swapping forends and how much REALLY does melonite do for a barrel?

Thread on Criterion barrels at M4:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?135045-Criterion-223-Wylde-barrels

Criterion Barrels:
http://criterionbarrels.com/barrels/ar-15

Voodoo Barrels at Palmetto:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/upper-parts/barrels/voodoo-innovations-18-fluted-barrel-brl-18-r-ss-f-556-m-t-l.html

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/upper-parts/barrels/voodoo-innovations-18-mid-length-fluted-barrel-brl-18-m-ss-f-556-m-t-l.html

GOST
26 May 2015, 02:23
Micro MOA 17.3" Rifle Gas Fluted 5.56 NATO 1/7 Barrel

http://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-j1m3pz/products/168/images/446/173RifleFluted__09218.1430686420.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

Black Nitrided http://www.blacknitride.com/whatis.html
Rifle length gas system
TRACK Rifling(single edged polygonal) http://micromoa.com/micromoa-barrel-info

http://micromoa.com/17-3-rifle-gas-fluted-5-56-nato-1-7-barrel/

Former11B
26 May 2015, 08:23
Ok guys. I need help.

Since nixing the idea of a 17" barrel and lightweight components I've been in something of a state of flux.....

Snip...

Rainier's hardened stainless barrels have a high-round count life...I wouldn't lump them in with just any stainless.

Some of their match stainless barrels (with or without 5R rifling) are very very nice. A little weighty but nice

Aragorn
26 May 2015, 10:45
Micro MOA 17.3" Rifle Gas Fluted 5.56 NATO 1/7 Barrel

http://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-j1m3pz/products/168/images/446/173RifleFluted__09218.1430686420.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

Black Nitrided http://www.blacknitride.com/whatis.html
Rifle length gas system
TRACK Rifling(single edged polygonal) http://micromoa.com/micromoa-barrel-info

http://micromoa.com/17-3-rifle-gas-fluted-5-56-nato-1-7-barrel/

I just had a legit Lego movie "Oh MY G-O-S-H!" moment in my living room. GOST you're my new favorite person.

Ordering the non-fluted.

GOST
26 May 2015, 12:47
I've got the 12.5" but I haven't finished her yet. I think the 17.3" has been out less than a month. Have you decided which BCG you're going with?

Aragorn
26 May 2015, 13:30
No. Still undecided. I'm on the call list at Cryptic. I've also got a Sharp's reliabolt that I've just had sitting around for quite some time, might be worth contacting them to see if I could just purchase one of their balanced carriers. MadCustomCoatings also has their Mad Black BCG which seems promising.

http://madcustomcoating.com/mad-black/

You have other mystery awesomeness I don't know about? [:D]

GOST
27 May 2015, 13:15
If your still wanting to use a LW carrier here's a carrier you may want to consider since you already have the Sharp's Reliabolt. It's from TS Arms and weighs in at 7.02 oz., it is also plasma coated like the one from Cryptic Coatings. Price is $219.99, $232.99 for the black.

https://www.tsarms.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/21-59-product/Black-Featured-Image.jpg

http://www.vertexops.com/TS_Arms_Plasma_BCG_p/ts-bc-plasma.htm

Aragorn
27 May 2015, 13:35
That is nice.

Still stewing on what AaronP220 said about adjustable GB's and lightweight components.

It still sounds tempting in just feeling shy after having just experimented with just changing to lighter buffers and springs.

Also that barrel I just ordered has a gas port calibrated for a standard spring and H buffer, leading me to believe that combination should be smooth.

Aragorn
27 May 2015, 23:59
Well.... I got tired of going back and forth and back and forth over lightweight bcg's and all things relating, variances in weight, cost (Boomfab, yikes!), and finally decided it might just be best to stick to what I know and trust. NiB full weight bcg's.

I've got a Lantac coming from Rogtac now. I was surprised in my revisiting, apparently they do NiB differently than most and achieve a coefficient of friction of .02 ... Only .01 LESS than Cryptic's Mystic Black! That's kind of awesome. Eager to try this bcg.

...now I just have to see if I can get over my squimishness when it comes to billboard logos so I can get the matching upper. Preferably while Rainier still has free shipping. We'll see.

Aragorn
2 June 2015, 11:29
Almost done! Had a bunch of things show up from my Memorial Day shopping so here's where I'm at now.

The Umbrella lower is now wearing a UBR.
Lantac E-BCG is now in hand.
Griffin Armamanet Fail Safe offset sights are here and they are NICE!
Also got a V7 Ti A2. Stupid light like all things V7 and I like the look of the raw Ti. It'll contrast nicely with the otherwise all black gun.
The scope also is here now, a Vortex PST 2.4-10x44 second focal plane.
MicroMOA 17.3" barrel made it but is off in the mail again. I've got a friend who has been shooting high power and lapping barrels since before my parents met, the barrel is on its way to him so he can check it with a bore scope and lap it.

I've still got a package on the way containing a NiB Raptor and a KAC Thumb rest, but it's been sitting in Fort Worth for a couple days now with no movement. [bash]

Also in my push to get this done, I ordered a 15" KMR last night and Noveske NSR panels for it.

All I need is an upper and scope mount! The mount will be the Aero 30mm SPR mount, and the upper will probably be an Aero forged upper. I spent a lot of time pouring over billet uppers, but I actually like the look of regular forged uppers and they weigh less and are cheaper. Plus the lower is cut to match one and I don't really know that billet uppers offer any real gain in any sort of performance.

Oh yeah, a more obscure item I have coming is a MDT buttpad for the UBR. I got introduced to them a couple weeks ago and it is a SIGNIFICANT improvement when shooting prone. I also liked it over my Magpul Enhanced buttpad in... well every other shooting position as well.

So yes. SO CLOSE!

GOST
2 June 2015, 11:54
Where's the pics?[:D]

Aragorn
2 June 2015, 12:03
I took some but they were atrocious. I'll try and get some better ones and put them up.

Kopis
2 June 2015, 12:33
Mmmmm lantac sexiness... Get some pics up!!! That's one of the coolest lowers out there IMO.

Aragorn
2 June 2015, 12:36
http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y419/Machpony/image.jpg1_zpsuweehmbk.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Machpony/media/image.jpg1_zpsuweehmbk.jpg.html)

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y419/Machpony/image.jpg2_zpssznidplj.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Machpony/media/image.jpg2_zpssznidplj.jpg.html)

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y419/Machpony/image.jpg3_zpst2tez29o.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Machpony/media/image.jpg3_zpst2tez29o.jpg.html)

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y419/Machpony/image.jpg6_zpsmmbpfitm.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Machpony/media/image.jpg6_zpsmmbpfitm.jpg.html)

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y419/Machpony/image.jpg5_zpsenay4yjt.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Machpony/media/image.jpg5_zpsenay4yjt.jpg.html)

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y419/Machpony/image.jpg4_zpsajs6lobf.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Machpony/media/image.jpg4_zpsajs6lobf.jpg.html)

Aragorn
2 June 2015, 12:40
^^^^oh yeah that NiB Raptor came today. [:D]

Computalotapus
2 June 2015, 13:02
That BCG..... *fap fap fap*

Aragorn
2 June 2015, 13:17
That BCG..... *fap fap fap*

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y419/Machpony/image.jpg1_zpsxuge2b1x.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Machpony/media/image.jpg1_zpsxuge2b1x.jpg.html)

Kopis
2 June 2015, 13:20
how you are diggin those sights? I just built an AR10 and am considering some kind of backup/close range sights for it. Ive read a lot of mixed stuff on angled iron sights...

Aragorn
2 June 2015, 13:34
how you are diggin those sights? I just built an AR10 and am considering some kind of backup/close range sights for it. Ive read a lot of mixed stuff on angled iron sights...

I haven't used them before so I can't really comment. The theory makes sense and videos of people running them on a course doesn't seem to show any real speed penalty, but I'll see after getting the rifle together and run them.

As for build quality the Griffin Fail Safe's are exemplary. They're nicer than most BUIS I've handle, fixed or otherwise and I'd put them at LEAST at parity with DD fixed BUIS. The entire front sight is one piece, meaning the FSP is machined in. It's perfectly centered and entirely shrouded. I seriously doubt there's a better/tougher way to make one. All adjustment is done from the rear sight, which has a single mid-sized aperture which I really like. Similar to my Hahn, or Bobro's new low rider sights.

Kopis
2 June 2015, 14:33
thanks, I just read up on the surefire DD-RTS-SET but theyre even more $ and i feel like the shrouded front sight post and all adjustments on rear is a better setup. Probably try to pickup a set of these.

nijikon84
2 June 2015, 16:14
Nice build going.

I'm going to do a build soon with a Stretch 16 Barrel from Strongside Tactical: http://www.strongsidetactical.com/stretch-16-precision-ar15-barrel-assembly-melonite-16-223-wylde-intermediate-length-gas/?page_context=category&faceted_search=0

Capable of .5 moa accuracy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikWgc4CVfYQ

Most of my upcoming AR15 builds/buys are all going to be Intermediate Gas System with the exception of the BCM BFH ELW Middie.

amphibian
5 June 2015, 12:25
MicroMOA 17.3" barrel made it but is off in the mail again. I've got a friend who has been shooting high power and lapping barrels since before my parents met, the barrel is on its way to him so he can check it with a bore scope and lap it.




Did you go through the break in procedure mentioned on our site?:http://micromoa.com/micromoa-barrel-info/
My partner is the barrel guy and I think I recall him telling me not lap these barrels with this hybrid / polygonal rifling.

Aragorn
5 June 2015, 15:31
Currently heading my way I've got a 15" BCM KMR, an Aero upper I found still on sale, and a FC LDFA. That's everything needed to turn this into a full working gun.

...unfortunately that puts me at something of an impasse as the moment of truth has arrived. A large part of me still wants to stick with the original plan, and I don't want to regret not doing it. I've hashed it out. If I go that route I'd use a Boomfab bolt carrier, a Balios Lite upper, and an SLR Ti adjustable gas block. Not exactly a cheap proposal... but DAMN it should be sweet.

I'd end up selling the upper with the LDFA and the Lantac BCG all here, unused.

If I use what's coming, it would still be a good gun, and it would be done sooner, and with no more money spent. Catch is I lament over my forend choice on my 14.5, which can't be switched out. I don't want to have similar grievances with this rifle.

Anyone here got a crystal ball or scrying abilities?

Aragorn
5 June 2015, 16:26
Did you go through the break in procedure mentioned on our site?:http://micromoa.com/micromoa-barrel-info/
My partner is the barrel guy and I think I recall him telling me not lap these barrels with this hybrid / polygonal rifling.

Well crap. Just saw this. No I didn't follow break in procedures as the gun isn't finished yet, and it had a massive burr in the bore where the gas port was drilled.

It should be back in my hands tomorrow. Hope I didn't **** anything up...

Also some kind of note or disclaimer on your site would be helpful regarding that.

amphibian
6 June 2015, 08:49
Well crap. Just saw this. No I didn't follow break in procedures as the gun isn't finished yet, and it had a massive burr in the bore where the gas port was drilled.

It should be back in my hands tomorrow. Hope I didn't **** anything up...

Also some kind of note or disclaimer on your site would be helpful regarding that.

I got clarification from my partner that it just doesn't 'need' to lapped. He said something like, 'the barrels are 2 tenths of a thousandths in concentricity' and that you are going to get more deviation in the nitriding than the bore itself and the break in procedure mentioned in the link above was what the manufacturer of the blanks told us to do rather than lapping....basically a lazy way to do the lapping but if you were so inclined to lap the barrel it wouldn't hurt anything just doing the procedure we mentioned is faster and easier.

Aragorn
6 June 2015, 10:21
I got clarification from my partner that it just doesn't 'need' to lapped. He said something like, 'the barrels are 2 tenths of a thousandths in concentricity' and that you are going to get more deviation in the nitriding than the bore itself and the break in procedure mentioned in the link above was what the manufacturer of the blanks told us to do rather than lapping....basically a lazy way to do the lapping but if you were so inclined to lap the barrel it wouldn't hurt anything just doing the procedure we mentioned is faster and easier.

*Whew* Thank you for the clarification!

Aragorn
10 June 2015, 15:14
I saw V7 had an Ionbond Titanium carrier, same weight as the Cryptic I had been previously eyeing at 5.7 oz. Also compatible with a forward assist so I went ahead and got it. I also got an SLR Sentry 7 adjustable gas block so I can tune as necessary. I thought about getting the Ti version, but it was 60$ more for .5 oz of weight savings, so, no thanks.

I figure I'll try the V7 and if I like it once I get it dialed in then awesome, and the Lantac will be held in reserve for a future build. If not, I'll pull the Lantac into service.

I got the V7 carrier today. Yup. It's light. It's also very clean, cleaner than the Lantac. The laser engraving is also nice. I must say, thus far I've been very impressed with all the V7 components I've handled, and I've handled a few by now.

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y419/Machpony/image.jpg1_zps44b3ahns.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Machpony/media/image.jpg1_zps44b3ahns.jpg.html)

I've got the remaining parts to build up the BCG. It's going to be something of a hodgepodge, but it'll be a NICE hodgepodge. The bolt is the Nickel Teflon coated S7 reliabolt, and I went ahead and installed a BCM extra power extractor spring with a black insert. I have an extra Nickel Boron cam pin that I'll use, and the firing pin is a Voodoo Innovations "Lifecoat" firing pin, which I'm pretty sure is melonite/nitride. I also had a spare cotter pin to complete everything. I'm kinda debating using the domed cam pin from the Lantac. We'll see.

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y419/Machpony/image.jpg2_zpsn15dk8qc.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Machpony/media/image.jpg2_zpsn15dk8qc.jpg.html)

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y419/Machpony/image.jpg3_zpsluz1fsxe.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Machpony/media/image.jpg3_zpsluz1fsxe.jpg.html)

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y419/Machpony/image.jpg4_zpsqaidf6a2.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Machpony/media/image.jpg4_zpsqaidf6a2.jpg.html)

Concept pic with the Lantac domed cam pin.

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y419/Machpony/image.jpg1_zpszuhklggn.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Machpony/media/image.jpg1_zpszuhklggn.jpg.html)

Just need the gas block to show up and the upper will be off to Rainier for assembly!

GOST
10 June 2015, 15:24
Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

Dstrbdmedic167
10 June 2015, 15:35
Yea I need to sell the 308 so I can finish mine.

Soisauss
10 June 2015, 21:22
I saw V7 had an Ionbond Titanium carrier, same weight as the Cryptic I had been previously eyeing at 5.7 oz. Also compatible with a forward assist so I went ahead and got it. I also got an SLR Sentry 7 adjustable gas block so I can tune as necessary. I thought about getting the Ti version, but it was 60$ more for .5 oz of weight savings, so, no thanks.

I figure I'll try the V7 and if I like it once I get it dialed in then awesome, and the Lantac will be held in reserve for a future build. If not, I'll pull the Lantac into service.

I got the V7 carrier today. Yup. It's light. It's also very clean, cleaner than the Lantac. The laser engraving is also nice. I must say, thus far I've been very impressed with all the V7 components I've handled, and I've handled a few by now.



http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y419/Machpony/image.jpg1_zpszuhklggn.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Machpony/media/image.jpg1_zpszuhklggn.jpg.html)

Just need the gas block to show up and the upper will be off to Rainier for assembly!

That is one hot looking BCG.....never thought of piecing together a BCG before.

mustangfreek
11 June 2015, 03:20
Just went thru this thread..

very nice pile of parts sir..looking good..

Killer looking BCG

Mecha_Arms
11 June 2015, 08:15
That BCG looks pretty cool. Are you going with a regular cotter pin or a KNS perma pin (or something else)?

Aragorn
11 June 2015, 08:45
Thanks everyone [:D]


That BCG looks pretty cool. Are you going with a regular cotter pin or a KNS perma pin (or something else)?

I'll probably just use the regular college pin. I have a KNS perma pin, but it's kind of a pain to take down the bcg with as it has to be pushed out through the opposite side vent hole.

Kopis
12 June 2015, 06:46
Cool BCG but the only person that will know it's special is you... Why they can't even put a logo that would peek out of the ejector port is beyond me.


I can see the engineer meeting now. "OK guys, Phil suggested putting the logo where no one can see it on our $400 titanium BCG. BRILLIANT!" "why didnt i think of that?"

GOST
12 June 2015, 07:07
I actually prefer that they hid their logo. Do others need to know it's special?[BD]

SINNER
12 June 2015, 08:56
Well crap. Just saw this. No I didn't follow break in procedures as the gun isn't finished yet, and it had a massive burr in the bore where the gas port was drilled.

It should be back in my hands tomorrow. Hope I didn't **** anything up...

Also some kind of note or disclaimer on your site would be helpful regarding that.

Did they nitride over the burr or are they drilling the gas port after nitriding process? Certainly not confidence inspiring to hear they are not deburring the port.

Aragorn
12 June 2015, 10:20
Cool BCG but the only person that will know it's special is you... Why they can't even put a logo that would peek out of the ejector port is beyond me.

I actually prefer that they hid their logo. Do others need to know it's special?[BD]

I'm actually totally cool with that. I'm not really going for flashy with this build, the Titanium is so I can see if I can make it run softer and flatter without using a brake. I'm more going for a sleek stealth look. The only prominent logo is the Umbrella. The Aero upper lacks a logo of any sort and will be wearing the smooth and featureless V7 port door and Forward Controls Low Drag Forward Assist.


Did they nitride over the burr or are they drilling the gas port after nitriding process? Certainly not confidence inspiring to hear they are not deburring the port.

From the looks of things it was nitrided and then drilled, which makes sense as they'd want to nitride and then mount the barrel extension. And yes, the burr was significant. I'd say it blocked approximately 1/5 of the light coming through the bore. I'd have returned it to have it removed had I not already had other plans. Still though, it's been handled and I'm eager to see how it shoots.

GOST
12 June 2015, 13:46
You should contact them about the burr and see what they say. Amphibian is a member here.

Aragorn
12 June 2015, 18:46
You should contact them about the burr and see what they say. Amphibian is a member here.

I know. He chimed in here on this thread. The burr, despite being mentioned, was not addressed. In this case though I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that it's because it was already being handled.

Aragorn
13 June 2015, 14:05
Finally got the last piece! The SLR Sentry 7 Adjustable Gas Block.

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y419/Machpony/image.jpg1_zpsrv3umc44.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Machpony/media/image.jpg1_zpsrv3umc44.jpg.html)

Monday the upper group will be out the door to Rainier. Any idea why it's an extra $25 for them to build an upper with an adjustable GB? Do they actually tune it? I tried calling to ask but, you know, it's Saturday. No answer.

GOST
13 June 2015, 14:10
Let me know how that Senrty 7 does, I plan on getting one myself.

Aragorn
13 June 2015, 14:19
Let me know how that Senrty 7 does, I plan on getting one myself.

For sure.

amphibian
13 June 2015, 17:37
That burr will be gone after the first if not second round. If you look at the break in procedure mentioned on the site, it consists of firing a total of 60 rounds. I do 4 mags with each mag loaded to 15 rounds each. Fire one round per second for each mag then wait till cool to the touch before firing the next mag. Then, if you do not get sub MOA using match grade ammo then we will refund you your money or swap the barrel....which BTW, we have yet to have to do. We test with Federal Gold Medal Match 69 Gr (5 shot group) as it is readily available. So burr or not, I personally dont see what the big deal is if we are willing to stand behind the product. Thanks!

Dstrbdmedic167
13 June 2015, 17:52
^^ I like this guy! Sounds like my type of break in procedure and with a money back guarantee.. I'll take it!

Aragorn
13 June 2015, 18:43
That burr will be gone after the first if not second round. If you look at the break in procedure mentioned on the site, it consists of firing a total of 60 rounds. I do 4 mags with each mag loaded to 15 rounds each. Fire one round per second for each mag then wait till cool to the touch before firing the next mag. Then, if you do not get sub MOA using match grade ammo then we will refund you your money or swap the barrel....which BTW, we have yet to have to do. We test with Federal Gold Medal Match 69 Gr (5 shot group) as it is readily available. So burr or not, I personally dont see what the big deal is if we are willing to stand behind the product. Thanks!

I'm not even worried. I was super excited when GOST turned me on to your barrels, and I'm still excited to run it. My only moment of concern was when you mentioned not lapping it, but then that got hammered out and as far as I'm concerned everything is peachy. [:D]

Aragorn
25 June 2015, 10:42
Well I'm a little miffed at the moment. Just got the upper back from Rainier. Rainier managed to drill the gas block and barrel for pinning and then fail to install the pin, and also left a large, obvious, glaring scar on the brand new V7 dust cover.

I paid $132.95 to have this done right, and now have to either ship it back, or have them send me a pin and then pull off the KMR and reinstall it after I already paid to have it done. If I sent it back, and this turn around was any indicator of time, I'd be without it another 2 1/2 weeks.

I know it's small but c'mon, I paid the coin FOR the details.

I could have had ADCO do it for $35.00, a HUNDRED bucks less.

End rant//

Mating it with the lower, it looks good. I got lucky with tolerance stacking. The rear lug is a little tight and requires a little push to seat in the lower, JUST a little though and it has ZERO play. Awesome. The KMR is my first 15" forend and I like it. No getting cramped up on this and I should have plenty of room if I decide to add a bipod at some point, which is certainly a possibility. It's light, especially for what it is, and I'm not actually sure if I prefer how it feels with the UBR, or the significantly lighter CTR. I'll probably hold off of making that decision until I have the scope mounted. Still waiting to find an Aero SPR mount.

I'd like to install the Griifin Fail Safe Sights to get an initial impression, but no sense in doing that if I have to send the upper back to Rainier.

Also think I'm going to pull the SD3G trigger and put it on my 14.5" gun. Looking between a Hiperfire 24C (or maybe their new Tarheel version) and the Elftmann Elf Trigger for this. Tough choice not having felt either.

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y419/Machpony/image.jpg1_zpsgfhvoi9g.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Machpony/media/image.jpg1_zpsgfhvoi9g.jpg.html)

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y419/Machpony/image.jpg2_zpsfy94b6da.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Machpony/media/image.jpg2_zpsfy94b6da.jpg.html)

UWone77
25 June 2015, 11:35
I'd give them a call and let them know of your displeasure.

Aragorn
25 June 2015, 12:00
I'd give them a call and let them know of your displeasure.

Yup. I did. They want photos. Guess I'm gonna do that.

ETA: Getting a return label from them. Hopefully turn around will be quick.

Aragorn
10 July 2015, 14:44
It's done!

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y419/Machpony/image.jpg1_zpsfygwi7zw.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Machpony/media/image.jpg1_zpsfygwi7zw.jpg.html)

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y419/Machpony/image.jpg2_zpsdfmun6jw.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Machpony/media/image.jpg2_zpsdfmun6jw.jpg.html)

And it's light. Light for what it is. Lighter than I thought it would be. I don't have a scale handy but I'd put it easily below 8 lbs. It feels sweet. REALLY sweet. Using the top rail as a reference the rifle balances exactly at T10. The Aero SPR is exactly what the doctor ordered for perfect eye relief, and mounting the rifle you fall perfectly into the sweet spot. The Griffin offset sights feel easy and intuitive to roll into and gives a beautiful sight picture. I pulled the SD3G trigger and installed a Hiperfire TH24. The trigger is... simply insane, at least for my initial impression (I'll do a review of it soon).

Later this month I'll have it out to get it dialed in and put it through some paces. Everything from precision testing at 500m to closed course competition style run and gun at 30m and in. Super eager to see how the gun behaves using the titanium bcg, adjustable gas block, and Spike's ST-T1 buffer. I have high hopes!

I'll continue to update as I begin putting rounds through it.

Dstrbdmedic167
10 July 2015, 15:24
Turned out great Aragon! Ready to hear who it does at the range. First thing i noticed was the trigger change. Really interested how that works for you.

UWone77
10 July 2015, 16:17
Aragon, I almost forgot they had fubared that dust cover and forgot the pin on your upper. Glad they got you squared away. Looks great!

SINNER
10 July 2015, 17:14
That looks really nice. Glad it all worked out.

GOST
10 July 2015, 20:13
That's the first Umbrella lower I've seen assembled here.

Dstrbdmedic167
10 July 2015, 20:17
That's the first Umbrella lower I've seen assembled here.

Hey my Lower is done... Just not the rest of it... I'm getting there...

GOST
10 July 2015, 20:25
It's not complete so it doesn't count. Maybe yours would look good with one of those crossbow uppers.

Dstrbdmedic167
10 July 2015, 20:27
It's not complete so it doesn't count. Maybe yours would look good with one of those crossbow uppers.

Now you're just talking crazy... I don't like much...

Aragorn
10 July 2015, 20:32
Yeah Rainier got me squared away.


That's the first Umbrella lower I've seen assembled here.

Hey my Lower is done... Just not the rest of it... I'm getting there...

Don't be jealous. Or, ok, be jealous it's fine. Lol.

Not much left to do with it. Still gotta get the FTW Carbine sling and a 4 slot keymod picatinny so I can give it a go with a bi-pod. Might buy an Atlas for it.

But really, it's done. Sorry medic :P

Dstrbdmedic167
10 July 2015, 20:32
Yeah Rainier got me squared away.




Don't be jealous. Or, ok, be jealous it's fine. Lol.

Not much left to do with it. Still gotta get the FTW Carbine sling and a 4 slot keymod picatinny so I can give it a go with a bi-pod. Might buy an Atlas for it.

But really, it's done. Sorry medic :P

No worries. You may have won the battle but I'll win the war! Hehe

Aragorn
10 July 2015, 20:36
No worries. You may have won the battle but I'll win the war! Hehe

Ha of that I have no doubt. I'm done building for awhile. Going after ammo, gear, and extra range time now.

Dstrbdmedic167
10 July 2015, 20:37
Ha of that I have no doubt. I'm done building for awhile. Going after ammo, gear, and extra range time now.

But seriously it looks great and I'm ready to hear how it all works out at the range. That's where it really matters.

GOST
10 July 2015, 20:38
The war is already over. It's like being the first on the moon, nobody cares who's second.

Aragorn
10 July 2015, 20:46
The war is already over. It's like being the first on the moon, nobody cares who's second.

Can I get a moon patch for this? [:D]

GOST
10 July 2015, 20:50
That'll be the next WEVO patch, James the second to the moon or James always the bridesmaid never the bride.

Dstrbdmedic167
10 July 2015, 21:17
That'll be the next WEVO patch, James the second to the moon or James always the bridesmaid never the bride.

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry... Haha

GOST
10 July 2015, 21:18
Nothing beats a cry/laugh, they're classic.

Aragorn
31 July 2015, 15:51
Ok, got to take it out and get it zeroed and perform some initial testing.

I may have made a mistake taking only American Eagle XM183. And by May have made a mistake, I mean I DID make a mistake. More on that in a bit.

First order of business was to get the SLR adjustable gas block tuned. The literature said the typical range is 5-7 clicks. Mine is running 14 out of 15, so almost full open. I'm very inclined to think this is due to the smaller porting on the MicroMOA barrel.

The control gun we used to compare recoil impulse was a 16" Noveske running a Spikes T2 buffer, Springco Blue spring, and using a Micor flash hider. Ammo was American Eagle XM193 from the same box. I can honestly say that using a lightweight BCG and adjustable gas block is a giant waste of money. At least if lowering felt recoil is your goal. Both this rifle and the control felt nearly indiscernible from the other while firing, with perhaps a slight edge going to the Noveske as observed by myself and one other shooter. With the Noveske using a fixed 4x ACOG and my Vortex set on 5x, target movement remained very similar, with both targets remaining in the field of view during the full cycle.

Titanium BCGs, don't buy them.

The barrel appeared accurate, but the ammo we were using was certainly a poor choice for hitting long range targets. Combined with the Vortex scope and the TH-24 trigger, it was hard to pull much tighter than a 6" group at 300 meters. I was able to EASILY hit 8" plates standing offhand at 100m. 8" plates at 300m I hit 9 of 10 in 2 separate strings of fire. The 10" plates at 500m remained elusive, not sure if because I was missing, or simply just couldn't hear the impact from 500m.

The Vortex scope is very nicely laid out. I got lucky, my 100m zero falls exactly on the "0" on the turret, and dialing up to "1" puts me on at 300m using XM193. With the 300m zero, using the given BC and the chrono data from earlier we used a ballistics calculator to figure drop, holding over an additional 2 mils should have put me on at 500m, but was unable to verify with certainty. The scope was very clear, with only minimal haze at 500m in the evening twilight.

The TH-24 trigger is simply, purely, absolutely sublime. For the record I DID get to also use a CMC 3.5# trigger. While it felt nice, when topped with good glass, excessive over travel became immediately obvious as the reticle would twitch when you dropped the hammer. Not so with the TH-24. None of this. At all. Like literally 0% Pull weight is approx 2.5 lbs and breaks VERY crisply. More so than any Geissele, Timney, CMC, or P.O.F. I've ever felt. It's seriously the cats ass. The shoe did need sanded lightly to produce a smooth interface surface for your finger, but that's the only caveat I can think of. The shoe does give a very good feel to the pull.

I've got chrono data I'll upload later, as compared to the 16" Noveske, and a 20" BCM stainless we also had along. In a nutshell though, the 17.3" MicroMOA barrel was about 90fps faster than the Noveske, and about 110fps slower than the 20" with all guns firing the same ammo from the same box.

Overall the rifle seems decent so far. I wasn't able to doing any sort of "run and gun" type stuff due to time constraints, or fully test for accuracy with the XM193, but it does seem to be "in there". Once the gas system was dialed in the gun ran like a top through about another 120 rounds or so, which was all we had left. Again, I'm very convinced that there is little to no advantage of using a lightweight carrier. At least however, the gun is very light. I pulled off the UBR and put a CTR on as the additional weight just wasn't needed for any practical counterbalancing purposes. The trigger and scope combo is simply wicked, and I'm certain that with good ammo, this rifles potential remains enormous.

GOST
31 July 2015, 19:31
Been waiting to hear how this booger performed. All this trigger hype has me considering their 24 3G.

SINNER
31 July 2015, 20:03
I could not shoot well at all with my 24C. Even with the shoe on, the bow is so far back in the trigger well I could not get a smooth pull with the bow falling behind my first knuckle. I put it on a dedicated .22 gun for my son.