View Full Version : Encountered problems today
First time I've had issues with any of my builds. The gun in question is my 11.5" SBR with a BCM LW bbl, Vltor upoper and San Tan lower. BCG is BCM. I guess the problem is FTE/Double (?) feed. Spent case wasn't fully ejecting but at the same time the BCG was trying to chamber the next round. Only had the problem when firing rapidly.
Have about 1500 rounds on the setup and could replicate the problem with 3 different mags.
Thoughts?
OTOH, my new 300 build ran great! [:D]
Dstrbdmedic167
26 April 2015, 13:15
Standard gas block or an adjustable? Also what ammo?
Standard gas block or an adjustable? Also what ammo?
Standard GB and M193
Dstrbdmedic167
26 April 2015, 13:20
And you've run 1500 rounds fine and now you're getting issues?
And you've run 1500 rounds fine and now you're getting issues?
Yup! probably closer to 2k rounds and not all M193. I've run silver bear, wolf steel/gold, AR223, you name it. Never an issue
Thompson
26 April 2015, 13:30
Not sure how old the BCG is, but maybe the extractor spring is worn? But if it has only seen 1500 rds, that shouldn't be a problem.
Did you try a different BCG yet? Or only different mags?
Is it possible that timing could be an issue, since it's an SBR?
UWone77
26 April 2015, 13:32
So you had some failures to eject? Is it possible to swap out the bolt or BCG to narrow down the issues?
alamo5000
26 April 2015, 13:43
Have you tried a deep clean of the chamber?
Not sure how old the BCG is, but maybe the extractor spring is worn? But if it has only seen 1500 rds, that shouldn't be a problem.
Did you try a different BCG yet? Or only different mags?
Is it possible that timing could be an issue, since it's an SBR?
Didn't think to run my other BCG
So you had some failures to eject? Is it possible to swap out the bolt or BCG to narrow down the issues?
Have you tried a deep clean of the chamber?
I clean the gun after every outing. What do you mean by deep clean?
alamo5000
26 April 2015, 13:55
I clean the gun after every outing. What do you mean by deep clean?
Nothing in particular. Just seeing if you are getting all the way down in the chamber when you clean.
Can you take a pic of the spent cases that were having a hard time ejecting?
Nothing in particular. Just seeing if you are getting all the way down in the chamber when you clean.
Can you take a pic of the spent cases that were having a hard time ejecting?
I'll swab the bbl and clean around the extension with qtips. Didn't take my phone so no picks unfortunately. Last time it happened the brass was wedged pretty good on the upper side of the BCG. Took some force to dislodge it.
Last cleaning was with frog lube (first time using it) and I noticed today after the first mag that I was running it pretty wet. Too wet? Is that possible?
alamo5000
26 April 2015, 14:16
I'll swab the bbl and clean around the extension with qtips. Didn't take my phone so no picks unfortunately. Last time it happened the brass was wedged pretty good on the upper side of the BCG. Took some force to dislodge it.
Last cleaning was with frog lube (first time using it) and I noticed today after the first mag that I was running it pretty wet. Too wet? Is that possible?
Did you use the paste or the liquid?
When you have it all apart just get a rag and take apart and wipe down your BCG as well as getting all the way up in the chamber.
It's sorta pasty I guess. More like a gel
alamo5000
26 April 2015, 14:27
It's sorta pasty I guess. More like a gel
I am just shooting in the dark here because there isn't enough info to say one way or another, but if you put it on thick and didn't wipe it off in theory it could cause problems. I have heard of it happening before. If it was running really wet it's something to look at.
What (to me) is suspicious is that the gun ran fine and then 'all of the sudden' ran into problems.
Did you try a heavier buffer?
SINNER
27 April 2015, 04:42
Same ammo as always? Any damage to the fired cases? I'd look hard at the ejector.
Waiting to hear the results from switching out the BCG.
Stone
27 April 2015, 05:21
Were you using steel cased ammo when it malfunctioned?
" When heated, steel does not expand and contract the same way that brass does – in fact, brass expands 1.5 times as much as steel. The shape of the .223/5.56 case was designed with brass as the case material; this plus the fact that steel doesn’t expand – and more importantly, contract – like brass means that extraction will be naturally more difficult."
So under rapid fire like you mentioned I could see having the problems you did.
"Only had the problem when firing rapidly."
If it wasn't steel cased I would follow Sinners advice and take a hard look at the extractor, possibly worn or the "claw" may have excessive unnoticed build up. Under powered ammo will cause extraction problems. Powder burn rates,etc,etc.
Are you comparing apples to apples here? What I mean is did you run a rapid fire string in the past and had this issue or were your past shooting experiences "normal fire"
"Last cleaning was with frog lube (first time using it)" Dump the frog lube, clean it off the rifle and go back to what you were using before when the rifle ran well.
JGifford
27 April 2015, 05:37
What buffer?
What spring?
Swap BCG's to provide another data point.
SINNER
27 April 2015, 05:40
Why would any of his combination matter? He has 1500 rounds through the rifle. A part has failed or become fouled enough to prevent proper functioning.
Odd that this started after Froglube was applied. Try a good cleaning/degrease, chamber scrubbed with a chamber brush, then fresh lube with other than Froglube.
You need to see if the gas system is fully cycling, or short stroking. Load just 1 round in a mag and fire, to see if it reliably locks open. Repeat a few times. Test with decent brass cased ammo.
Swap out the complete BCG and see if it works. If it functions, cycle through the bolt and then carrier to see if one part induces the malfunction.
If the problem is narrowed down to the bolt, I would detail strip it and be sure to clean out the ejector channel (a bolt ejector tool is helpful, not totally necessary). On a rare occasion, debris can get embedded in there and seize up the ejector. Using a tool (punch), you should be able to depress it and have it snap back with with a fair amount of tension. Inspect the extractor groove for usual wear or chipping. Inspect the extractor spring for good tension. If it were mine, after the strip and cleaning, I would drop in a new ejector spring and extractor spring (http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?373-Extractor-Spring-Upgrade).
SBR's usually should have an H2 or H3 buffer and are intolerant to weak extractor springs.
RiverRat
27 April 2015, 08:15
I'll offer an opinion based on my experience transitioning from other lubes to Froglube (paste) on both AR-15 and Springfield XD platforms - it's a finicky process but results have been good after I got through the initial pain.
Froglube and residual gun oil don't play nicely together. I had to clean-and-wipe, then clean-and-wipe again....and was still removing gummed up material from both the carrier and upper receiver. I could feel it with my finger while cleaning.
A third heavy application that included a long soak in the warm summer sun pretty much finished removal of residue from previous use and lubes. After wiping that 3rd coat off, I applied a light 4th coat (paste on the carrier, liquid on the bolt and cam for the AR) and have no problems with either handguns or carbines since.
I'll even go further to say that the XD(m) cycles more smoothly now than when running on gun oils.
SINNER
27 April 2015, 08:29
I for one am not a fan of Frog Lube. After an ultrasonic cleaning of components in my Benelli SBE2 I applied it per instructions even warming the parts in a oven.
The first time I used the weapon it had a FTE. Until that point it had cycled at least 5,000 rounds of all types flawlessly. Even after falling into a foot of marsh water and mud. The very next time it was 9* out and the gun refused to function. Inside looked like candle wax was rubbed on the components. Took it home and removed as much as possible and oiled it with Mobil 1 like normal. Shot 250 rounds of low brass target junk flawlessly on a day where temps went from single digits to barely above freezing the very next time out.
What buffer?
What spring?
Swap BCG's to provide another data point.
Standard spring and a H2 buffer
Were you using steel cased ammo when it malfunctioned?
" When heated, steel does not expand and contract the same way that brass does – in fact, brass expands 1.5 times as much as steel. The shape of the .223/5.56 case was designed with brass as the case material; this plus the fact that steel doesn’t expand – and more importantly, contract – like brass means that extraction will be naturally more difficult."
So under rapid fire like you mentioned I could see having the problems you did.
"Only had the problem when firing rapidly."
If it wasn't steel cased I would follow Sinners advice and take a hard look at the extractor, possibly worn or the "claw" may have excessive unnoticed build up. Under powered ammo will cause extraction problems. Powder burn rates,etc,etc.
Are you comparing apples to apples here? What I mean is did you run a rapid fire string in the past and had this issue or were your past shooting experiences "normal fire"
"Last cleaning was with frog lube (first time using it)" Dump the frog lube, clean it off the rifle and go back to what you were using before when the rifle ran well.
Brass cased. I didn't shoot any differently. About 15 rounds getting the ACSS dialed in then about a mag at 200 yards, then more rapid fire at different distances. Malfs came at the end when I was doing some double/triple+ taps at 25.
Sorry if I missed some questions but I will run a different BCG next trip. I thoroughly cleaned the rifle yesterday. Removed and cleaned the extractor (first time) and it didn't seem very dirty.
Did notice some Frog Lube in areas that was wax like. Don't think I'll be using it again
SINNER
27 April 2015, 10:56
Check the ejector not the extractor.
henpecked
27 April 2015, 13:06
Check for a Primer that was blown out lodged in the gas tube on the BCG.
Check the ejector not the extractor.
Appears to be GTG
Check for a Primer that was blown out lodged in the gas tube on the BCG.
Clear and clean
I believe my gas rings are shot. Bolt moves very easily in and out of the carrier. Just installed a spikes bolt I had laying around and there's a huge difference. Could that be it?
I believe my gas rings are shot. Bolt moves very easily in and out of the carrier. Just installed a spikes bolt I had laying around and there's a huge difference. Could that be it? Yes, but not normal for a low round count. However, gas rings are cheap and easy to replace. If gas rings are worn out it would short cycle, due to insufficient gas.
Gas ring info and video link. (http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?7588-Video-AR-Gas-Rings-101)
Yes, but not normal for a low round count. However, gas rings are cheap and easy to replace. If gas rings are worn out it would short cycle, due to insufficient gas.
Gas ring info and video link. (http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?7588-Video-AR-Gas-Rings-101)
Yeah I'm kinda shocked. Bolt will just fall out of the carrier
SINNER
28 April 2015, 03:28
If the bolt carrier is moving back far enough to begin stripping a round from the magazine short stroking is not your issue. The empty should have been slung out 1/2" of travel before it engages the next round.
Did someone say that they use MOBIL 1 on their AR? Actually doesnt seem like a bad idea...
Did someone say that they use MOBIL 1 on their AR? Actually doesnt seem like a bad idea...
That's all I used on my 6.8.
Haven't shot the rifle since but I'm hoping to get out this weekend. I will take some extra BCG's and buffers this time.
alamo5000
13 May 2015, 07:29
Did someone say that they use MOBIL 1 on their AR? Actually doesnt seem like a bad idea...
You sure?
http://www.thebestoil.com/documentcenter/productdetailpages/amsoilvsmobil1thefacts/?plain=true
If you read on there the motor oils generally have a flash point of around 450 degrees. At that point they can ignite. Also they have an evaporation rate that will make them thicker and stickier and hence will attract dirt and grime. That is unless you are stripping and cleaning every time, but over time it would probably wind up a big sludge particularly in a high heat area like your bolt and chamber, not to mention your chamber could burst into flames. :)
At least that's the non scientific conclusion I draw.
You sure?
http://www.thebestoil.com/documentcenter/productdetailpages/amsoilvsmobil1thefacts/?plain=true
If you read on there the motor oils generally have a flash point of around 450 degrees. At that point they can ignite. Also they have an evaporation rate that will make them thicker and stickier and hence will attract dirt and grime. That is unless you are stripping and cleaning every time, but over time it would probably wind up a big sludge particularly in a high heat area like your bolt and chamber, not to mention your chamber could burst into flames. :)
At least that's the non scientific conclusion I draw.
Harrison, the owner of ARP actually recommends it. At least, he used too.
alamo5000
13 May 2015, 07:58
Harrison, the owner of ARP actually recommends it. At least, he used too.
I learn something new every day.
BTW what is ARP? [:D]
AR Performance.
http://www.ar15performance.com/barrels
alamo5000
13 May 2015, 08:04
AR Performance.
http://www.ar15performance.com/barrels
I mistakenly had AARP in my head. I was like 'wtf do they know?' [:D]
I mistakenly had AARP in my head. I was like 'wtf do they know?' [:D]
Lmao.
AARP also recommends Mobil 1........ For your joints.
alamo5000
13 May 2015, 08:13
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2354543/Watch-worlds-fastest-mobility-scooter-reaches-speed-120mph-fitted-600cc-engine.html
Mobil1 and Aeroshell 33 is the only thing I ever use. You can keep that snake oil bullshit like froglube.
Computalotapus
13 May 2015, 09:20
Mobil1 and Aeroshell 33 is the only thing I ever use. You can keep that snake oil bullshit like froglube.
HAHA I get so much crap for using CLP. It's what I have always used and have never had an issue with it. I agree keep the fancy stuff I will just keep using what has always worked for me, I will leave the boutique shopping to my wife.
Dstrbdmedic167
13 May 2015, 09:21
I mistakenly had AARP in my head. I was like 'wtf do they know?' [:D]
My "12.5" SBR has a ARP 223 Wylde barrel. Can shoot .5" Groups at a 100yds if I do my part. My velocity is also above the "normal" I can flirt with 3000fps with this barrel with my loads.
alamo5000
13 May 2015, 09:30
My "12.5" SBR has a ARP 223 Wylde barrel. Can shoot .5" Groups at a 100yds if I do my part. My velocity is also above the "normal" I can flirt with 3000fps with this barrel with my loads.
You're really trying to tempt me into building an SBR aren't you? ;)
Dstrbdmedic167
13 May 2015, 09:31
You're really trying to tempt me into building an SBR aren't you? ;)
I'd never do such a thing. 😂😂
My "12.5" SBR has a ARP 223 Wylde barrel. Can shoot .5" Groups at a 100yds if I do my part. My velocity is also above the "normal" I can flirt with 3000fps with this barrel with my loads.
His barrels are no joke. The two 68 barrels I had were bad ass.
Dstrbdmedic167
13 May 2015, 09:33
His barrels are no joke. The two 68 barrels I had were bad ass.
He may not be a "name brand" but when you have people waiting on your barrels for a year or more depending on the barrel you're doing something right.
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