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alamo5000
28 April 2015, 19:53
I have been seeing this floating around as of the last day or so...

"NO IMPLEMENTATION YET SEEN FOR NOTICE 41P AS FINAL RULE . . . NSSF has confirmed with ATF that the bureau is unlikely to publish Notice 41P (NFA Trusts) as a Final Rule for quite some time. This is in part because EPS resources are being diverted to help process the 310,000 public comments received in response to the armor piercing ammunition framework proposal. In addition, it seems ATF has not prepared to revise the NFA database so that it can track "responsible persons" for NFA trusts. The proposed rule would require the responsible person(s) on an NFA Trust be fingerprinted."

Found here:

http://www.nssf.org/share/BP2/2015/042715.htm

UWone77
28 April 2015, 20:05
This doesn't surprise me. I think 41P will be on the backburner till the end of this calendar year. However, if you're in the market for a NFA item, I still think now is the time, or at least start saving.

alamo5000
28 April 2015, 20:12
If they don't get the funding then how could they do it? It's political season though so no doubt people are going to talk it to death. That said, with government nothing is easy. Implementing these 'small' changes turn into huge things that cost billions of dollars...

I am hopeful that it is dead and stays dead, but even at that I do not know how this kind of rule could stand up to any kind of legal test even if they did try it.

GOST
28 April 2015, 20:17
Thanks for the update Alamo5000, looks like I need accelerate the savings fund for a suppressor.

alamo5000
28 April 2015, 20:21
I am merely waiting for the damn thing to get back in stock.

I am also considering doing a double purchase... a 9mm and a 5.56 in one swoop.

Does anyone know how much faster efile is than doing it on paper? It would be nice if I wouldn't have to wait months on end... but I am learning patience I guess.

UWone77
28 April 2015, 20:28
I am merely waiting for the damn thing to get back in stock.

I am also considering doing a double purchase... a 9mm and a 5.56 in one swoop.

Does anyone know how much faster efile is than doing it on paper? It would be nice if I wouldn't have to wait months on end... but I am learning patience I guess.

Dude, stop your whining... a 4 month wait is nothing compared to the 12-18 month waits from just a few years ago. [:D]

alamo5000
28 April 2015, 20:31
Dude, stop your whining... a 4 month wait is nothing compared to the 12-18 month waits from just a few years ago. [:D]

I can whine if I want to! [:D]

I would have already been a month into my 4 month wait if the damn thing was in stock.

Apparently people in the suppressor business do not comprehend the whole concept of 'hurry up'. It's like they are all on island time or something.

GOST
28 April 2015, 20:32
You really need to pull the trigger on a trust from Coyote Rifleworks. They did mine and were great. They will answer questions you have and get it back to you very quick.

UWone77
28 April 2015, 20:36
I can whine if I want to! [:D]

I would have already been a month into my 4 month wait if the damn thing was in stock.

Apparently people in the suppressor business do not comprehend the whole concept of 'hurry up'. It's like they are all on island time or something.

You can't blame the suppressor manufacturers.

When they produce them, they have to Form 3 them to dealers. Some dealers won't restock until they're out, not anticipating the 1-3 month wait on the Form 3 transfers.

alamo5000
28 April 2015, 20:36
You really need to pull the trigger on a trust from Coyote Rifleworks. They did mine and were great. They will answer questions you have and get it back to you very quick.

I am looking at the signed and notarized docs right now. [:D]

Done. Been done a month.

The day after I finally got it notarized my suppressor went out of stock...so instead of Form 3'ing one in and then Form 4....I placed my bet that they will get them back in stock sooner than a form 3 would take.

Based on my conversations with people in the know they should be back in stock within a few more weeks...

Dstrbdmedic167
28 April 2015, 20:37
You really need to pull the trigger on a trust from Coyote Rifleworks. They did mine and were great. They will answer questions you have and get it back to you very quick.

I thought he did that already but maybe not. It's hard to keep up with his post. Most of alamo's post are TL : DR hehe

GOST
28 April 2015, 20:41
Alamo have you contacted SilencerCo? Since they are doing in house trust these days, maybe they'll do a straight up form 4.

alamo5000
28 April 2015, 20:43
You can't blame the suppressor manufacturers.

When they produce them, they have to Form 3 them to dealers. Some dealers won't restock until they're out, not anticipating the 1-3 month wait on the Form 3 transfers.

Here is what I was told by a local suppressor dealer.... (I quote word for word an email from a local dealer) "when Form 3s are filed for tax exempt transfers, that they go to a different office at the NFA branch that handles the transfers within two weeks or so."

All I know is the manufacturer and the people at silencer shop both gave me an ETA of about 6 weeks until they are back in stock and that was about 3 or maybe 4 weeks ago.

alamo5000
28 April 2015, 20:45
Oh man... I got tagged!!! It was only a matter of time [:D]

It's still better than RAC upside down installer though... who doesn't want the ATF to hurry up? [:D]

alamo5000
28 April 2015, 20:48
Alamo have you contacted SilencerCo? Since they are doing in house trust these days, maybe they'll do a straight up form 4.

SilencerCo or Silencer Shop?


I thought he did that already but maybe not. It's hard to keep up with his post. Most of alamo's post are TL:DR hehe

Yep. My trust is fully completed. Hopefully that clears that up for you... LOL [:D]

UWone77
28 April 2015, 20:51
Here is what I was told by a local suppressor dealer.... (I quote word for word an email from a local dealer) "when Form 3s are filed for tax exempt transfers, that they go to a different office at the NFA branch that handles the transfers within two weeks or so."

All I know is the manufacturer and the people at silencer shop both gave me an ETA of about 6 weeks until they are back in stock and that was about 3 or maybe 4 weeks ago.

LOL... I've never seen a Form 3 transfer that took 2 weeks. I once waited over a year for a Form 3 transfer because the ATF lost my paperwork twice.

alamo5000
28 April 2015, 20:54
LOL... I've never seen a Form 3 transfer that took 2 weeks. I once waited over a year for a Form 3 transfer because the ATF lost my paperwork twice.

That's why I didn't do a Form 3 to get what I wanted from out of state.... as you know I am Mr Patient here....

GOST
28 April 2015, 20:55
SilencerCo, they've started doing trust in house to make buying a suppressor easier.

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?7249-SilencerCo-EasyTrust

UWone77
28 April 2015, 20:56
That's why I didn't do a Form 3 to get what I wanted from out of state.... as you know I am Mr Patient here....

In 2 months when you're still waiting, I'm going to enjoy the laughs. [:D]

alamo5000
28 April 2015, 20:58
In 2 months when you're still waiting, I'm going to enjoy the laughs. [:D]

You're not helping me here. Not even a little. You'd think I was red headed or something.

mustangfreek
29 April 2015, 03:24
This doesn't surprise me. I think 41P will be on the backburner till the end of this calendar year. However, if you're in the market for a NFA item, I still think now is the time, or at least start saving.

Man, i kinda backed off as this 41p/may date was coming up too quick...I still really want to get a SBR and a can or 2 going......ughhh...:(


You really need to pull the trigger on a trust from Coyote Rifleworks. They did mine and were great. They will answer questions you have and get it back to you very quick.

Coyote seems like a good/quick deal.I emailed him a while back and always a prompt reply and was very helpful...


You're not helping me here. Not even a little. You'd think I was red headed or something.


You have no ginger power...I can tell...[:D]

gatordev
29 April 2015, 04:00
Does anyone know how much faster efile is than doing it on paper? It would be nice if I wouldn't have to wait months on end... but I am learning patience I guess.

It doesn't really matter since neither Form 3s or Form 4s are on eFile right now. Supposedly they will come online "soon," but we've been hearing that for a while.


Alamo have you contacted SilencerCo? Since they are doing in house trust these days, maybe they'll do a straight up form 4.

That wouldn't really work since alamo is in TX and SilencerCo is in UT. You can't transfer on a F4 direct across state lines.

Also, I read the other day that there seems to be some major issues with SilencerCo's trust. Apparently it wasn't written very well and had a lot of holes in it.

UWone77
29 April 2015, 09:36
It doesn't really matter since neither Form 3s or Form 4s are on eFile right now. Supposedly they will come online "soon," but we've been hearing that for a while.



That wouldn't really work since alamo is in TX and SilencerCo is in UT. You can't transfer on a F4 direct across state lines.

Also, I read the other day that there seems to be some major issues with SilencerCo's trust. Apparently it wasn't written very well and had a lot of holes in it.

That's what happens when you try to do a one size fits all trust. People should remember, just because the ATF approves your Form 1 or 4, doesn't mean your trust is valid. I shake my head when people go with a Quicken Trust or the generic Trust the Gunstore they buy their suppressor gives you. I think there is a conflict of interest there and are they going to represent you if the ATF determines your Trust is invalid down the road?

Dstrbdmedic167
29 April 2015, 10:32
That's what happens when you try to do a one size fits all trust. People should remember, just because the ATF approves your Form 1 or 4, doesn't mean your trust is valid. I shake my head when people go with a Quicken Trust or the generic Trust the Gunstore they buy their suppressor gives you. I think there is a conflict of interest there and are they going to represent you if the ATF determines your Trust is invalid down the road?

I completely agree with you but out of curiosity how many times has the ATF gone back and determined a trust was invalid. I mean do they go back and loll over. A trust years later and go OMG this trust isn't right!?!

Slippers
29 April 2015, 10:50
Trusts are not that complicated, but the boilerplate ones typically don't have the correct language to handle what happens when the grantor dies and the beneficiary suddenly has a pile of title II firearms in their lap. If you're not careful, the beneficiary will have to file a form 5 for each item in the trust.

Edit: If you want an SBR, I don't know why you'd wait. Get a lower, test it out, and form 1 it. Takes 4-6 weeks and you can use it while you're waiting (just not on a short barreled upper, of course).

tact
29 April 2015, 12:44
Form 1s are taking longer lately. Form 4s are still getting a little faster.

Slippers
29 April 2015, 12:55
Form 1s are taking longer lately. Form 4s are still getting a little faster.

I just got one back a few weeks ago. Took 6 weeks.

tact
29 April 2015, 12:56
I just got one back a few weeks ago. Took 6 weeks.

I guess I'm unlucky then......2 submitted 2/19.

gatordev
29 April 2015, 13:23
I completely agree with you but out of curiosity how many times has the ATF gone back and determined a trust was invalid. I mean do they go back and loll over. A trust years later and go OMG this trust isn't right!?!

It supposedly happened a couple of years ago with the Quicken trusts. All of a sudden a bunch of people were being notified that the trust was determined to not be valid in the eyes of the ATF. I've been reading some stuff over the last few months where some established FFLs have been saying this will probably be a much bigger issue in another 20 years or so when a bunch of people who have half-assed trusts start dying, for exactly the reason Slippers mentions. All of a sudden that M16 you want to buy isn't really owned by anyone anymore because the trust wasn't completed correctly. Obviously I'm over-simplifying it a little, but you get the point.

CarbonScoring
29 April 2015, 19:34
I've got another lower to SBR, but it's still in the manufacturing phase. I was thinking I wouldn't be able to, but now I still may.

SwissyJim
29 April 2015, 22:27
good news... I still want to get a .458 can, and dreaming of a Salvo12 even tho I have nothing to put it on (yet)

gatordev
30 April 2015, 05:34
I was thinking I wouldn't be able to, but now I still may.

I see what you did there.

CarbonScoring
1 May 2015, 17:07
I see what you did there.

You're seeing things. ;)