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View Full Version : 277Wlv Vs 300Blk Subsonic



Dstrbdmedic167
22 May 2015, 17:12
Made a video Comparison of the two today. I'll let you be the judge... Both rounds were confirmed subsonic prior to testing. Enjoy!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ci_f7vhPdmk

toolboxluis00200
22 May 2015, 17:40
Very ingesting the 300blk sound it louder

alamo5000
22 May 2015, 17:50
Interesting. The wolverine does sound quieter in that video.

alamo5000
22 May 2015, 17:51
Very ingesting the 300blk sound it louder

I see the hospital stay didn't fix your spelling at all [BD]

Dstrbdmedic167
22 May 2015, 18:00
Yep! The WLV is by far the winner in my eyes or ears I should say. I shot the 300 with my loads beign odd and factory 220gr Remington as Even as noted.... I know it could really upset some 300blk fan boys but the WLV is hand down quieter with a 40-70gr lighter bullet.... Its crazy how quiet the WLV really is its not much different than shooting a suppressed 22lr....

alamo5000
22 May 2015, 18:04
Yep! The WLV is by far the winner in my eyes or ears I should say. I shot the 300 with my loads beign odd and factory 220gr Remington as Even as noted.... I know it could really upset some 300blk fan boys but the WLV is hand down quieter with a 40-70gr lighter bullet.... Its crazy how quiet the WLV really is its not much different than shooting a suppressed 22lr....

Next step is to slap a Db meter on that thing and do some tests just to make it all official. Then let the cards fall where they may. :)

Dstrbdmedic167
22 May 2015, 18:05
Next step is to slap a Db meter on that thing and do some tests just to make it all official. Then let the cards fall where they may. :)

Get me one and I'll be glad too lol. Would love to get some "scientific data" to confirm what Is seen and heard in the video.

SwissyJim
22 May 2015, 18:30
Interesting... I'll have to set up a camera in a similar spot and shoot some rounds- that seemed quite a bit louder than I am used to as far as the 300blk. It almost sounded like there was the 'crack' following the shot, but you confirmed they were subs. Either way, I'm not adding yet another caliber and all the associated paraphernalia just to get a little quieter still.

Dstrbdmedic167
22 May 2015, 18:34
Interesting... I'll have to set up a camera in a similar spot and shoot some rounds- that seemed quite a bit louder than I am used to as far as the 300blk. It almost sounded like there was the 'crack' following the shot, but you confirmed they were subs. Either way, I'm not adding yet another caliber and all the associated paraphernalia just to get a little quieter still.

It wasn't so much a crack as much as just a louder repore(sp) if that makes sense... on my end there was no Crack... thats why I also included and rotated some factory 220gr remington ammo.. send me your load if you dont care on your 190's and ill see if there is any marked difference.. I think I have some RE7.... I fully expected it to make people stratch their heads..

And you really need a 277 WLV and I know he is gonna be unloading some barrels this weekend for a memorial day sale!

SwissyJim
22 May 2015, 18:55
Hell yes I really need the 277... and 6.8... and 6.5...375... 300wm... and soooooooo many others! LMAO! But finances draw the line. Just a barrel, great - but then there's the dies, crimp, loads of new projectiles, sheridan gauge, WFT trimmer, and on down the line including all the time I have invested in making 2000+ 300blk cases. If I was just starting out looking for an alternate caliber, I'd JUMP on the 277 - but I'm heavily invested in 300BLK for now (and just did the 458Socom too). When some funds come available that don't get snapped up right away, I think the 277 would be a good use for them [:D]

And the report downrange does make sense, I just don't recall noticing that before. Thats why I was saying I need to set upo a camera and do some shooting. It's amazing what you pick up on video after the fact, that you don't notice at the time! If nothing else, it gives me a reason to hit the range (like I need one... [BD]

Dstrbdmedic167
22 May 2015, 19:08
Hell yes I really need the 277... and 6.8... and 6.5...375... 300wm... and soooooooo many others! LMAO! But finances draw the line. Just a barrel, great - but then there's the dies, crimp, loads of new projectiles, sheridan gauge, WFT trimmer, and on down the line including all the time I have invested in making 2000+ 300blk cases. If I was just starting out looking for an alternate caliber, I'd JUMP on the 277 - but I'm heavily invested in 300BLK for now (and just did the 458Socom too). When some funds come available that don't get snapped up right away, I think the 277 would be a good use for them [:D]

And the report downrange does make sense, I just don't recall noticing that before. Thats why I was saying I need to set upo a camera and do some shooting. It's amazing what you pick up on video after the fact, that you don't notice at the time! If nothing else, it gives me a reason to hit the range (like I need one... [BD]

Well get a barrel now and build/swap whenever lol. You already have the powder for it and that's the hardest part. Bullets and the rest are easy.... I got rid of my 6.8 in favor of the WLV. It does everything I need as far as hunting and all parts are interchangeable, ie bolt and mags. Just made sense... I highly suggest you keep an eye on MDWS even if you don't plan on one soon. The price may be too good to pass up lol

Cotton68spc
22 May 2015, 19:11
Love the WLV and it does sound amazing subsonic


Check me out on YouTube and Facebook

GaSwamper
22 May 2015, 19:18
Very good vid Medic. Intro was good, really enjoyed the comparison. Wish we could get access to a meter and get together for more testing, would really like to see my Form 1 compared to the AAC.

JHoward
22 May 2015, 19:26
Wow. The Wolverine looked much more pleasant to shoot overall as well.

Dstrbdmedic167
22 May 2015, 19:26
Very good vid Medic. Intro was good, really enjoyed the comparison. Wish we could get access to a meter and get together for more testing, would really like to see my Form 1 compared to the AAC.

Thanks Buddy! I drove to you last time...your turn this time...or we get up with mburgin... i dont go to 68 but i bet he'd be game!

GaSwamper
22 May 2015, 19:35
Thanks Buddy! I drove to you last time...your turn this time...or we get up with mburgin... i dont go to 68 but i bet he'd be game!

Now that's a guy with some cool toys!

Dstrbdmedic167
22 May 2015, 19:36
Now that's a guy with some cool toys!

Indeed he was!

SwissyJim
22 May 2015, 20:07
Well get a barrel now and build/swap whenever lol. You already have the powder for it and that's the hardest part. Bullets and the rest are easy.... I got rid of my 6.8 in favor of the WLV. It does everything I need as far as hunting and all parts are interchangeable, ie bolt and mags. Just made sense... I highly suggest you keep an eye on MDWS even if you don't plan on one soon. The price may be too good to pass up lol

ha...you never know. Guess I could unload something like the scope I sold to buy the whiskey for my nephew! If I swap all over to the 277 there are a ton of 300blk guys up here I could pawn stuff off to. Maybe I should advertise some 300blk cases locally...

Either way, pretty cool video. Would love to see actual sound levels, but hard to do without pro equipment. I tried with a sound meter app, and it sucked. LOL

Dstrbdmedic167
22 May 2015, 20:10
ha...you never know. Guess I could unload something like the scope I sold to buy the whiskey for my nephew! If I swap all over to the 277 there are a ton of 300blk guys up here I could pawn stuff off to. Maybe I should advertise some 300blk cases locally...

Either way, pretty cool video. Would love to see actual sound levels, but hard to do without pro equipment. I tried with a sound meter app, and it sucked. LOL

I like being the instigator for a change lol... Yea I thought about using the one on my iPhone but decided not too...

SwissyJim
22 May 2015, 20:27
I like being the instigator for a change lol... Yea I thought about using the one on my iPhone but decided not too...

something about the mic level being capped at 100dBa or something. Plus the sampling time is far too slow to catch the bang corectly. I gave up after an afternoon of trying. And I tried 4 different apps... they all claimed 'pro lever results' or some shit. yea, right.

Ordnance
23 May 2015, 10:19
Would you mind posting the load data for both? I'd like to know the powder charge difference, since in all fairness I haven't worked with the Wolverine. But, I do have some points that should be considered...

If you're running a heavier bullet which necessitates a greater powder charge, then there will almost always be an increased report. If you run a lighter bullet with less powder, it will result in a lessened report. A 40-70gr bullet weight difference is a big deal when you're talking about sustained velocity and energy in a subsonic comparison, since both rounds are coming out at relatively the same speed, unlike super sonic rounds where the lighter bullet has greater FPS and better BC which give it a ballistic advantage against wind and distance. In a nutshell what I'm trying to say is if you run a .300 in the same bullet weight as the .277, at the same speed, you'll end up with relatively the same level of suppression. The nod in that instance would go to the .277 for being able to buck the wind better, BUT... that's not really an issue IMO with most subsonics, as the distances they're typically employed at are inconsequential to wind factoring. The whole point of cartridges such as these, is the ability to run the heaviest round possible for terminal ballistics, sustained FPS over the greatest distance possible without the sonic crack, and still maintaining the ability to cycle a semi-auto. If achieving the quietest round was the only goal, then the 22LR will always win, because it has one of the smallest powder charges to bullet weight. Just some food for thought. I'm not saying the .277 is a bad cartridge, but all factors need to be considered including the negatives to attenuation which will affect intended performance.

Cotton68spc
23 May 2015, 11:14
WLV pistol barrels are 85 bucks right now !!!!!!!


Check me out on YouTube and Facebook

Dstrbdmedic167
23 May 2015, 11:15
@Ordnance I plan to try and get some 200gr 277 bullets here in the near future and compare the two. I'll also make some loads with Jim's load and I'll also work a load using the same powder.

The 277WLV is using a 150gr Hot-Cor over 10.2gr of 1680 @2.285.

The 300blk is using a 190gr Nosler over 8.5gr of lil-gun @2.280. I don't know what Remington uses with their loads of course using the 220gr subsonic factory ammo. Odd loads were mine and even were factory.

I'm no scientist and this wasn't a scientific test. Just what I had found while working up loads for the wolverine. There are so many variables that one could argue gives one an advantage over the other. I completely understand that. I do agree with you for the most part. When I load subsonic loads though I simply want whatever is quietest. I'm not hunting with a subsonic load nor do I care too. I have better bullets in the supersonic range for that and that's for both platforms. As with most things in the firearm world. It all boils down to what is your main purpose and application. One of the times YMMV comes into play.

SwissyJim
23 May 2015, 11:20
WLV pistol barrels are 85 bucks right now !!!!!!!


Check me out on YouTube and Facebook

If he had the 8.2" with the 1:7 twist I would grab one just for future fun...

And Medic, I'll be looking forward to the comparison between like or similar weight projectiles/powder. I believe (in my own head LOL) that the re7 is quieter than the a1680 - and cleaner, too.

Dstrbdmedic167
23 May 2015, 11:23
And Medic, I'll be looking forward to the comparison between like or similar weight projectiles/powder. I believe (in my own head LOL) that the re7 is quieter than the a1680 - and cleaner, too.

That's all subs are though. What you the shooter perceives as quiet. And I like my 1680!

UWone77
23 May 2015, 11:23
After reading some threads on .277... I guess my question is, what is .277 doing that .300 isn't already doing?

six8
23 May 2015, 11:34
That ricochet was loud

Dstrbdmedic167
23 May 2015, 11:47
After reading some threads on .277... I guess my question is, what is .277 doing that .300 isn't already doing?

To me it's a better range of bullets 85-120 for supers and 150-200 for subs. The wolverine runs 2800fps with an 85 grain TSX, 2700 grain with a 90TNT, 2600 with a 95TTSX, subs just as quiet and almost just as heavy.

Also most bullets in 277 have a better ballistic coefficient and Sectional Density. For example the 110gr Hornady VMAX, .277 has a BC of .370 vs .308 having .290. The SD is .205 vs .166 respectively. As you know the higher the number the better performance down range. You can also usually get at least a couple hundred fps more using the same bullet with the .277 vs 300.

I have both and can't speak bad on either. I feel that the WLV wins the supersonic arena all day long from varmint to deer/hogs, and, runs subs just as well as the BLK.

Check out the WLV forum for more hard data and presentations of the comparison of the two. Your question has always been one of the first ones asked. So you ready for your own WLV barrel yet? Lol...

UWone77
23 May 2015, 11:54
To me it's a better range of bullets 85-120 for supers and 150-200 for subs. The wolverine runs 2800fps with an 85 grain TSX, 2700 grain with a 90TNT, 2600 with a 95TTSX, subs just as quiet and almost just as heavy.

Also most bullets in 277 have a better ballistic coefficient and Sectional Density. For example the 110gr Hornady VMAX, .277 has a BC of .370 vs .308 having .290. The SD is .205 vs .166 respectively. As you know the higher the number the better performance down range. You can also usually get at least a couple hundred fps more using the same bullet with the .277 vs 300.

I have both and can't speak bad on either. I feel that the WLV wins the supersonic arena all day long from varmint to deer/hogs, and, runs subs just as well as the BLK.

Check out the WLV forum for more hard data and presentations of the comparison of the two. Your question has always been one of the first ones asked. So you ready for your own WLV barrel yet? Lol...

I don't hunt, so I doubt that I'll ever get into .277.

I will fully admit that I try to stick to calibers that I can shoot for free at the PD range. 300 BLK was the only round I've really paid for in bulk. To me, shooting paper or dirt, 300 shines with short barrels and suppressors. It appears that .277 provides that same benefit. However, as I mentioned, since I don't shoot animals, I'm likely never going to see any benefit with .277. I don't know what kind of microphone you're using to video your shooting, but to the shooters ear, both rounds probably sound oh so similar.

Commercially, it's hard to see .277 getting any traction, so you're left with reloading, which I also haven't gotten into (yet) You guys that love to work up your own loads, I'm sure will squeeze every ounce of performance out of these cartridges, but for me, I'm not the kind of guy they are marketing to.

Dstrbdmedic167
23 May 2015, 12:00
I wish you were closer I'd love to let you put the two side by side. It is a noteable difference to me. It was enough I felt like making the video lol. I wasn't using any mic attachment, just the mic on the camera (SL1) itself.

I really think it will but with everything it takes time. This cartridge isn't much more than a year old and look where it's at already.

Since your not a hunter I can truly understand you side of it completely. But as you know there are a lot of people that are lol.

UWone77
23 May 2015, 12:11
If I was closer, I'd need to take Excedrin more frequently. [BD]

LOL... kind of... [:)]

Dstrbdmedic167
23 May 2015, 12:12
If I was closer, I'd need to take Excedrin more frequently. [BD]

LOL... kind of... [:)]

Haha.. Nothin but love... 😜

toolboxluis00200
23 May 2015, 12:13
I see the hospital stay didn't fix your spelling at all [BD]

Lol haha

Ordnance
23 May 2015, 12:44
@Ordnance I plan to try and get some 200gr 277 bullets here in the near future and compare the two. I'll also make some loads with Jim's load and I'll also work a load using the same powder.

The 277WLV is using a 150gr Hot-Cor over 10.2gr of 1680 @2.285.

The 300blk is using a 190gr Nosler over 8.5gr of lil-gun @2.280. I don't know what Remington uses with their loads of course using the 220gr subsonic factory ammo. Odd loads were mine and even were factory.

I'm no scientist and this wasn't a scientific test. Just what I had found while working up loads for the wolverine. There are so many variables that one could argue gives one an advantage over the other. I completely understand that. I do agree with you for the most part. When I load subsonic loads though I simply want whatever is quietest. I'm not hunting with a subsonic load nor do I care too. I have better bullets in the supersonic range for that and that's for both platforms. As with most things in the firearm world. It all boils down to what is your main purpose and application. One of the times YMMV comes into play.

I understand, and I'm by no means trying to lessen your enthusiasm, but I simply want to add information that will hopefully be helpful. I have to point out, that if energy wasn't a concern, and simply attenuation, then again 22LR will always win and is more than capable of target shooting out to 200yds, so the assertion that it's not about energy isn't really correct man. I agree 110% though that every cartridge is purpose driven, but the error I find most often is when others try to come up with one round to rule them all. The .300 BO provides better terminal ballistics within a shorter platform while still maintaining the ability to cycle well. The secondary benefit is suppression. The availability of .308 cal bullets is also far greater than .277. Trying to compare the BC advantage downrange is flawed since although one may have a better flight performance, the other still offers better terminal ballistics. And, if terminal ballistics isn't a factor then there's still the fact that 6.5 and .243 offers better BC then .277 at extended ranges, and therefor will outperform the .277.

Dstrbdmedic167
23 May 2015, 12:53
I understand, and I'm by no means trying to lessen your enthusiasm, but I simply want to add information that will hopefully be helpful. I have to point out, that if energy wasn't a concern, and simply attenuation, then again 22LR will always win and is more than capable of target shooting out to 200yds, so the assertion that it's not about energy isn't really correct man. I agree 110% though that every cartridge is purpose driven, but the error I find most often is when others try to come up with one round to rule them all. The .300 BO provides better terminal ballistics within a shorter platform while still maintaining the ability to cycle well. The secondary benefit is suppression. The availability of .308 cal bullets is also far greater than .277. Trying to compare the BC advantage downrange is flawed since although one may have a better flight performance, the other still offers better terminal ballistics. And, if terminal ballistics isn't a factor then there's still the fact that 6.5 and .243 offers better BC then .277 at extended ranges, and therefor will outperform the .277.

Yea a 22lr will ways win that's for sure. I'll agree to disagree to some point. I can find .277 bullets just as easy and plentiful as 308 one and cheaper for that fact. We could go for days on which one is better it's all what you/me/anyone thinks is best for them. There is better bullets in other calibers for sure but they require more than just a barrel swap. That's a main reason I sold my 6.8 stuff and just kept the WLV.

I have a 308, 223, 277, 300 and have had a 6.8. For me and my purposes the WLV is the "one for all" or at least checks the most boxes in wants/needs.

Ordnance
23 May 2015, 13:06
Yea a 22lr will ways win that's for sure. I'll agree to disagree to some point. I can find .277 bullets just as easy and plentiful as 308 one and cheaper for that fact. We could go for days on which one is better it's all what you/me/anyone thinks is best for them. There is better bullets in other calibers for sure but they require more than just a barrel swap. That's a main reason I sold my 6.8 stuff and just kept the WLV.

I have a 308, 223, 277, 300 and have had a 6.8. For me and my purposes the WLV is the "one for all" or at least checks the most boxes in wants/needs.

Please read the PM I just sent you.

SINNER
23 May 2015, 14:17
Would you mind posting the load data for both? I'd like to know the powder charge difference, since in all fairness I haven't worked with the Wolverine. But, I do have some points that should be considered...

If you're running a heavier bullet which necessitates a greater powder charge, then there will almost always be an increased report. If you run a lighter bullet with less powder, it will result in a lessened report. A 40-70gr bullet weight difference is a big deal when you're talking about sustained velocity and energy in a subsonic comparison, since both rounds are coming out at relatively the same speed, unlike super sonic rounds where the lighter bullet has greater FPS and better BC which give it a ballistic advantage against wind and distance. In a nutshell what I'm trying to say is if you run a .300 in the same bullet weight as the .277, at the same speed, you'll end up with relatively the same level of suppression. The nod in that instance would go to the .277 for being able to buck the wind better, BUT... that's not really an issue IMO with most subsonics, as the distances they're typically employed at are inconsequential to wind factoring. The whole point of cartridges such as these, is the ability to run the heaviest round possible for terminal ballistics, sustained FPS over the greatest distance possible without the sonic crack, and still maintaining the ability to cycle a semi-auto. If achieving the quietest round was the only goal, then the 22LR will always win, because it has one of the smallest powder charges to bullet weight. Just some food for thought. I'm not saying the .277 is a bad cartridge, but all factors need to be considered including the negatives to attenuation which will affect intended performance.


Pretty much nailed it. Apples to oranges test. Use the closest weight bullets and a crony to match the velocities then let's see the difference.

GaSwamper
23 May 2015, 14:30
Is it better than 300, I don't know I don't own one so hard to say I guess. I really like it as a companion gun for my 6.8 since I do reload for it and share projectiles. I do think many of the 6.8 bullets expand better at hunting ranges than the 308 bullets because well 308 was designed for more velocity. And it acts just as the 300 does in short barrels, it holds performance very well in the shorty. There will never be one to rule them all because every sit. calls for something diff or personal preference. Subsonic was not a concern for me because I don't want to limit my range when hunting but I do enjoy shooting my sonics suppressed now. I do love my Wolverine and stand behind that it will meet most challenges you can throw at it.

Ordnance
23 May 2015, 15:58
Is it better than 300, I don't know I don't own one so hard to say I guess. I really like it as a companion gun for my 6.8 since I do reload for it and share projectiles. I do think many of the 6.8 bullets expand better at hunting ranges than the 308 bullets because well 308 was designed for more velocity. And it acts just as the 300 does in short barrels, it holds performance very well in the shorty. There will never be one to rule them all because every sit. calls for something diff or personal preference. Subsonic was not a concern for me because I don't want to limit my range when hunting but I do enjoy shooting my sonics suppressed now. I do love my Wolverine and stand behind that it will meet most challenges you can throw at it.

Expansion has to due with how the bullet is made. Any two bullets made the same way will expand the same at the same velocities no matter the diameter, but the heavier will still transfer more energy. There are also projectiles that at higher velocities don't expand as well at others with lower velocities, which is why Berger does VLDs for hunting and target with the same BC, so as to give the shooter one for target and one that will expand better for hunting, while maintaining a very similar dope. And it's easy to compare it to the 6.8, but if I bring a 6.5 to the party then what?

Ordnance
23 May 2015, 16:09
Pretty much nailed it. Apples to oranges test. Use the closest weight bullets and a crony to match the velocities then let's see the difference.

It also needs to be the same powder, primer, and crimp. I don't know all the atmospheric details, but certain powders and primers are more temp sensative than others. If there's a high SD and ES in one but not the other, combined with a temperature variance, you'll end up with skewed results. These tests are super difficult, and I give credit to Dstrbdmedic for working with what he has available. Dstrbdmedic you might see if someone locally has a magnetospeed so you can get the ES and SD numbers during the test itself.

Dstrbdmedic167
23 May 2015, 16:17
It also needs to be the same powder, primer, and crimp. I don't know all the atmospheric details, but certain powders and primers are more temp sensative than others. If there's a high SD and ES in one but not the other, combined with a temperature variance, you'll end up with skewed results. These tests are super difficult, and I give credit to Dstrbdmedic for working with what he has available. Dstrbdmedic you might see if someone locally has a magnetospeed so you can get the ES and SD numbers during the test itself.

Thanks and yea I know my test are in no way scientific and should be taken with a grain of salt. Im not a large company that can control every single variable. That's why I'm gonna try to load them with similar bullets, powder and etc etc.

Ordnance
23 May 2015, 16:29
Thanks and yea I know my test are in no way scientific and should be taken with a grain of salt. Im not a large company that can control every single variable. That's why I'm gonna try to load them with similar bullets, powder and etc etc.

You're working with what you got and doing your best man. It's meant as positive feedback. [BD]

Dstrbdmedic167
23 May 2015, 16:30
You're working with what you got and doing your best man. It's meant as positive feedback. [BD]

All good! Taken as same!

Cotton68spc
23 May 2015, 16:44
If I was closer, I'd need to take Excedrin more frequently. [BD]

LOL... kind of... [:)]

Lmao I live 500 miles and should own half the company with all the pills i have to take


Check me out on YouTube and Facebook

GaSwamper
23 May 2015, 18:24
Expansion has to due with how the bullet is made. Any two bullets made the same way will expand the same at the same velocities no matter the diameter, but the heavier will still transfer more energy. There are also projectiles that at higher velocities don't expand as well at others with lower velocities, which is why Berger does VLDs for hunting and target with the same BC, so as to give the shooter one for target and one that will expand better for hunting, while maintaining a very similar dope. And it's easy to compare it to the 6.8, but if I bring a 6.5 to the party then what?

Yes and most of the 85gr to 120gr 277 are designed for the 6.8. All of the .30 bullets were designed to be used in your high power cartridges like 30-30 308 and so on. Bringing in the 6.5 is really apples to oranges, it's way out of either of these two realms in terms of what you are trying to accomplish. Now if you want to bring the 6.5 to the party I would probly break out the 7VAR and ( Grendel Fans get you're earmuffs ) walk the dog on the 6.5. I actually have a design on file I worked up that would be able to expand the 110gr to 160gr .30 bullets and possibly even exceed the 30 RAR in performance. Will I ever cat it? Maybe, but the 7VAR will do everything it will basically for my needs.

Ordnance
23 May 2015, 18:54
Yes and most of the 85gr to 120gr 277 are designed for the 6.8. All of the .30 bullets were designed to be used in your high power cartridges like 30-30 308 and so on. Bringing in the 6.5 is really apples to oranges, it's way out of either of these two realms in terms of what you are trying to accomplish. Now if you want to bring the 6.5 to the party I would probly break out the 7VAR and ( Grendel Fans get you're earmuffs ) walk the dog on the 6.5. I actually have a design on file I worked up that would be able to expand the 110gr to 160gr .30 bullets and possibly even exceed the 30 RAR in performance. Will I ever cat it? Maybe, but the 7VAR will do everything it will basically for my needs.

How is comparing a 6.5 Grendel to a 6.8 SPC apples to oranges? I've shot several 6.5 Grendels both super AND subsonic (it cycled just fine), so your assertion that it's not in the same realm as the 6.8, .277, and .300 is false and simply wanting to avoid what you know will not end well when argued out. And for all the effort exerted into the 7mm Valkyrie, you might as well go to a large frame 6mm or 6.5mm Creedmoor that would mop the floor with it. The thing that doesn't change about all of these wildcat cartridges is the exhausting lengths guys go to in order to create something out of a cartridge that already does a phenomenal job. They want to handicap it by cutting it down to so they can throw it into a standard AR15 magazine, and then try to convince the world it does the same job as the original cartridge it's based off of, or worse yet they claim it does everything great. And the .30 RAR? Really? Lol... I guess your measure of performance and my measure of performance are on different plains.

Ordnance
23 May 2015, 19:15
I don't know why I bothered to even comment. This is what happens every time there's wildcat comparisons, and it will end up the same argument with the same kind of guys showing up wanting to tell guys like me how theirs is the best, and I just don't know because I haven't bought into it. Half of them don't even know what ES or SD is, and they all want to talk to me about accuracy at long range, yet their experience is rarely based off of a distance farther than 200-300 yards from a bench. And no GaSwamper I'm not talking about you in particular, but once guys start showing up and trying to insert their own wildcats it's simply a matter of time.

I'll go back to lurking. Dstrbdmedic sorry about the intrusion man.

GaSwamper
23 May 2015, 19:32
How is comparing a 6.5 Grendel to a 6.8 SPC apples to oranges? I've shot several 6.5 Grendels both super AND subsonic (it cycled just fine), so your assertion that it's not in the same realm as the 6.8, .277, and .300 is false and simply wanting to avoid what you know will not end well when argued out. And for all the effort exerted into the 7mm Valkyrie, you might as well go to a large frame 6mm or 6.5mm Creedmoor that would mop the floor with it. The thing that doesn't change about all of these wildcat cartridges is the exhausting lengths guys go to in order to create something out of a cartridge that already does a phenomenal job. They want to handicap it by cutting it down to so they can throw it into a standard AR15 magazine, and then try to convince the world it does the same job as the original cartridge it's based off of, or worse yet they claim it does everything great. And the .30 RAR? Really? Lol... I guess your measure of performance and my measure of performance are on different plains.
I guess it is, I thought you were only comparing to the WLV and BLK and yes the 300 BLK and 6.5 Grendel is no where near the same. 6.8 and 6.5 is splitting hairs really but I do give the long range to the Grendel. You miss my point in the beginning of this, which was pretty much to each his own, I can show you the downside to every caliber out there in some way and fan boys can argue each downfall till they're out of breath. I can kill with the 556, I can hit it harder with the WLV, even harder with the 6.8 and recoil and complexity start to rise, you see where this is going. No one is trying to convince you of anything, I like guns, I also like unique cats because well there different and they help me learn more and more when reloading. And yes we could have up weight and size to simply shoot the Creedmoor or we could cat it to the 7mm in the AR and create something unique and new. My favorite cartridge of all time is the 30.06 and in my eyes the perfect .30 but I guess you could say it's a handicapped version of the .300 mag. There are many calibers I like and some I just don't, the reasons vary but it all boils down to opinion and I'm a hunter so many of my reasons will pertain to hunting performance.

MDWS
23 May 2015, 19:45
I don't know why I bothered to even comment. This is what happens every time there's wildcat comparisons, and it will end up the same argument with the same kind of guys showing up wanting to tell guys like me how theirs is the best, and I just don't know because I haven't bought into it. Half of them don't even know what ES or SD is, and they all want to talk to me about accuracy at long range, yet their experience is rarely based off of a distance farther than 200-300 yards from a bench. And no GaSwamper I'm not talking about you in particular, but once guys start showing up and trying to insert their own wildcats it's simply a matter of time.

I'll go back to lurking. Dstrbdmedic sorry about the intrusion man.

If you would like to have a friendly conversation where I might be able to provide you actual math over opinion, let me know.

The 277 Wolverine outperforms the 300BLK in supersonic. Now, that statement requires some data to back it it. I can provide that for you but I'm not so good at doing it on forums.

For what it's worth I don't believe in cartridge wars. To me it's just math and let the math speak for itself.

GOST
23 May 2015, 20:03
If you would like to have a friendly conversation where I might be able to provide you actual math over opinion, let me know.

The 277 Wolverine outperforms the 300BLK in supersonic. Now, that statement requires some data to back it it. I can provide that for you but I'm not so good at doing it on forums.

For what it's worth I don't believe in cartridge wars. To me it's just math and let the math speak for itself.

Good post.

Cotton68spc
24 May 2015, 12:47
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/24/0dda26101146eaffc59e315a79c2120e.jpg

Here is a target that I shot the top right corner was my point of aim
Load wc680 10grn under some .17 a piece 150 rn



Check me out on YouTube and Facebook

Dstrbdmedic167
26 July 2015, 18:21
Did a little video using my Osprey45 as the host. 150gr Subs sound pretty good... should have used a different lens though...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8x6GqneI7nE