Tactical Medic

[Dstrbdmedic167]

So my county is starting a tactical medic program as a joint venture with the sheriff's office. They are looking for medic's and EMT's with at least 2 years experience to go through the training with the county SWAT team. They will take a week long TIMS(?) class and train monthly with the SWAT team. They plan to start training in October and plan to start full implementation by next April. I have expressed my interest in the program naturally.

So my question for the LEO's. Does your county have something similar? If not what are your thought? It is still a little early but I know I will have to at least complete and pass the POPAT course as a min. So what recommendations would you have for someone that's never taken the course as far as preparing for it? I plan to pick up some general get in shape type workouts etc etc. This is more to spark some conversation (cause WEVO has been slow) and see what your thoughts on it are on the program and if your local municipality has something similar and if so how is it working?

[WHSmithIV]

Dstrbdmedic, there isn't anything I can help you with here. There are no SWAT teams here in this part of Idaho. The county Sheriffs Dept. works with the volunteer EMT's and the county volunteer fire depts. I think what you are referring to is a TEMS (Tactical Emergency Medic Specialist) class. For any really serious emergency situation, we'd be calling on State Police help and neighboring counties.

I hope you get the job and do wish you the best of luck with it.

[SwissyJim]

I know our dept's have something similar, but it's only open to paramedics. So my poor little EMT butt is not allowed to sign up. But, if/when I see one of the medics that is part of this program, I'll ask if he has any insight.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

I know our dept's have something similar, but it's only open to paramedics. So my poor little EMT butt is not allowed to sign up. But, if/when I see one of the medics that is part of this program, I'll ask if he has any insight.

Thanks Jim!

[Hmac]

I was Medical Director of our county's TAC Team for almost 17 years...the heydays of Tactical EMS after the Branch Davidian debacle at Waco. I had 8 Tactical Medics. All were certified by CONTOMS, and/or other Tactical EMS programs. All were EMT-P's...an important concept since our protocols revolved around Advanced Life Support. We had a pretty tight budget, but the team's commander had a lot of pull at the National Guard base close to here and we ended up with a huge number of perks and facility access for training that made the whole endeavor a huge amount of fun. Automatic weapons, rappelling, confidence course, MOUT Village, helicopter assault, I even learned how to drive an M113 APC. It was a hoot in every regard. The deputies welcomed us and we were always part of team, even to the point where they made sure that we shot the same amount of ammo they did. We were armed, and were part of the entry team. Great times, I envy you the experience. A lot of how your team develops is going to depend on the involvement and leadership of the doctor that ends up as Medical Director. I hope that works out well for you all.

[UWone77]

Our Team has one of the SWAT officers go through EMS school. He rides and trains with the Fire Department once a month to keep his certifications.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

I was Medical Director of our county's TAC Team for almost 17 years...the heydays of Tactical EMS after the Branch Davidian debacle at Waco. I had 8 Tactical Medics. All were certified by CONTOMS, and/or other Tactical EMS programs. All were EMT-P's...an important concept since our protocols revolved around Advanced Life Support. We had a pretty tight budget, but the team's commander had a lot of pull at the National Guard base close to here and we ended up with a huge number of perks and facility access for training that made the whole endeavor a huge amount of fun. Automatic weapons, rappelling, confidence course, MOUT Village, helicopter assault, I even learned how to drive an M113 APC. It was a hoot in every regard. The deputies welcomed us and we were always part of team, even to the point where they made sure that we shot the same amount of ammo they did. We were armed, and were part of the entry team. Great times, I envy you the experience. A lot of how your team develops is going to depend on the involvement and leadership of the doctor that ends up as Medical Director. I hope that works out well for you all.

That sounds like it was a lot of fun for sure. We have a great medical director that pretty much gives us free reign within reason. We have a great group of guys on our swat team as well. I know all of them and went to school with most.


Our Team has one of the SWAT officers go through EMS school. He rides and trains with the Fire Department once a month to keep his certifications.

Just one guy huh? Surprised it's just one. I figured at least two or three.

[Hmac]

That sounds like it was a lot of fun for sure. We have a great medical director that pretty much gives us free reign within reason. We have a great group of guys on our swat team as well. I know all of them and went to school with most.



Just one guy huh? Surprised it's just one. I figured at least two or three.

And...is he a Paramedic? IMHO, SWAT operations deserve/require Advanced Life Support.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

And...is he a Paramedic? IMHO, SWAT operations deserve/require Advanced Life Support.

Here our medical director is the Dr. whose license we operate under. He gets down and dirty with us. Now he won't be doing the anything tactical but he will probably stop by and see what's going on. The guy heading it up on the EMS side is a paramedic and our EMS director.

I agree with you 100%

[Hmac]

Here our medical director is the Dr. whose license we operate under. He gets down and dirty with us. Now he won't be doing the anything tactical but he will probably stop by and see what's going on. The guy heading it up on the EMS side is a paramedic and our EMS director.


Yep, that was my role, but the twice-a-year training at Camp Ripley was such a blast that I never missed it. I did the down and dirty stuff, all the same qualifications. Did all the twice-a-year weapons qualification, even took the "Dynamic Entry" course, which put me in my current volunteer role as Medical Director of the Bomb Squad. Bomb Squad is a lot more sedate. My role now consists of either sitting around waiting for something to happen, or running like hell. Earlier, I did entries too, but moved away from that into the TAC van when OSHA decided that raiding a meth lab required decontamination afterward. Stripping down for that in Minnesota winter put a damper on my enthusiasm for entries.

http://m0.i.pbase.com/u30/hmac/upload/18772130.HMc.jpg

http://m2.i.pbase.com/u44/hmac/upload/28660782.joshumpsmall.jpg

http://m7.i.pbase.com/u44/hmac/upload/28660707.rappelling3.jpg

http://m5.i.pbase.com/g1/60/230460/2/113114495.NzTPVDCH.jpg

[UWone77]

And...is he a Paramedic? IMHO, SWAT operations deserve/require Advanced Life Support.

I'm not an expert on our own team, never been on it. Our team is not full time and collateral duty. The agencies around us are all part time as well, and part of a metro unit. Because of the part time nature, most operations are planned, and medical aid is always staging.

[gatordev]

It may have just been part of the "fun" with the Guard rather than part of the team kit, but what on earth does a local PD need with an anti-material rifle?

[Hmac]

I'm not an expert on our own team, never been on it. Our team is not full time and collateral duty. The agencies around us are all part time as well, and part of a metro unit. Because of the part time nature, most operations are planned, and medical aid is always staging.

The advantage, going back to Waco and the observations of Rich Carmona who was the first major proponent of Tactical EMS, the advantage of Tactical EMS is having Advanced Life Support inside the inner perimeter. The images of Federal agents bringing their wounded out to medical care on the hoods of cars after the fight had ended at the Branch Davidian complex was the impetus. Staged EMS is sub-optimal, according to current doctrine. Not criticizing your team, just observing.

[Hmac]

It may have just been part of the "fun" with the Guard rather than part of the team kit, but what on earth does a local PD need with an anti-material rifle?

I can't imagine that it was needed, and it's never been deployed. The Barrett belongs to the guy who was commander at that time. He's retired, and now consultant to the Bomb Squad (he's ex-mil EOD). We shoot the Barrett at Bomb Squad training too (for fun), usually using the less "bent-up" .50 cal cartridges the we pick out from the boxes they give us for disposal.

He's a pretty good friend of mine, and is an SOT FFL, therefore my source of suppressors now that they're (soon-to-be) legal here.

The Bomb Squad is kind of fun. We, and the other 2 bomb squads in the state, get a lot of confiscated fireworks, expired dynamite, bad lots of surplus ammunition from both private vendors and military, and various items that nobody talks about from BAE, who has a local "facility" on the camp. We demo on the big artillery range, using a couple of impact craters. The commercial aerial shells and expired dymamite we destroy by shooting at it. It's a hoot.

[gatordev]

I figured it was more for the entertainment portion than the training session. Blasting explosives with it does sound like fun. Important safety note: when shooting a Barrett at something running at high RPM (~5000), bad things can happen when the round impacts the spinny thing. True story.

[UWone77]

It may have just been part of the "fun" with the Guard rather than part of the team kit, but what on earth does a local PD need with an anti-material rifle?

Dallas PD apparently heard your question and answered it. [:D]

[Aragorn]

Dallas PD apparently heard your question and answered it. [:D]

...wut?

[GOST]

It may have just been part of the "fun" with the Guard rather than part of the team kit, but what on earth does a local PD need with an anti-material rifle?


Dallas PD apparently heard your question and answered it. [:D]


...wut?

Suspect in Dallas used an armored van.

http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/crime/2015/06/13/updates-gunfire-reported-at-dallas-police-headquarters/71165792/

[Aragorn]

Suspect in Dallas used an armored van.

http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/crime/2015/06/13/updates-gunfire-reported-at-dallas-police-headquarters/71165792/

Whoa. In my own backyard no less. I'm a transplant but I think this is where it's generally said.... Don't mess with Texas. Our cops have .50's and'll blow your shit up!

[gatordev]

Are you guys actually seeing something that says they used an anti-material weapon? I'm missing it if it's there.

I just have a hard time trying to imagine when a PD would have time to set up something like that in order to disable a vehicle AND not be in a position where the round could endanger others.

[Aragorn]

Are you guys actually seeing something that says they used an anti-material weapon? I'm missing it if it's there.

I just have a hard time trying to imagine when a PD would have time to set up something like that in order to disable a vehicle AND not be in a position where the round could endanger others.

I was just going off what UWone said. Then again I may have just read too much into it when the proper interpretation may have been "this would be an example of when an anti-material rifle would be used."

Then again... they did say in the article that they "disabled" the vehicle. "Disabled" using quotations. [:D]

[Hmac]

The report I read said .50 caliber anti-material rifle was used to disable the vehicle. I'll bet the gunman was surprised that Dallas PD had one too.

I don know what .50 they used, but setting up a Barrett can be done in a couple of minutes. It's actually a pretty simple rifle.

[GOST]

I've not seen a report identifying which .50 was used. Only things I've read said 2 shots to the engine and 1 through the windshield hitting the suspect.

[gatordev]

The report I read said .50 caliber anti-material rifle was used to disable the vehicle. I'll bet the gunman was surprised that Dallas PD had one too.

I don know what .50 they used, but setting up a Barrett can be done in a couple of minutes. It's actually a pretty simple rifle.

Interesting. It kind of seemed like from the first link that they blockaded him in and then disabled the vehicle, which I could see being more practical. I agree the gun is quick to setup, my original thinking was more like trying to find a spot that give you both time to engage and also a clean and safe shot while the target vehicle is moving. Setting up a checkpoint would at least help with one of those.

I've always been lucky in that we could just move with the target vehicle, no matter which way it turned.

Two gunners we had deployed with in the past.

http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz322/gatordev/Public%20pics/Flight%20public/DSC00919_zpskxf7jioh.jpg

And our "target vehicle" for the day:

http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz322/gatordev/Public%20pics/Flight%20public/DSC00922_zpsgabmgwrk.jpg

[Hmac]

That's cool. A Barrett from a Blackhawk. I'll bet that takes some practice.