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Aragorn
4 June 2015, 11:58
My go to round is M193. Generally Federal, American Eagle, or sometimes Independence.

Sure I've got a couple mags of Winchester 5.56 soft points and some TAP but it's a bit much to stock up on.

I've always seen hype on IMI M193 about how it's better/hotter/more accurate/cleaner/less flash... but no ACTUAL data.

...thanks Internet.

I've also seen the exact opposite of those claims claimed.

My question is does anyone have any ACTUAL data on this round? Particularly in comparison to say... Federal XM193?

voodoo_man
4 June 2015, 13:57
I have a box of imi m193 I ran at a class.

It ran fine. Not stellar accuracy by any means, but its 55gr brass....I mean...itll work, but its no 77gr otm

Aragorn
4 June 2015, 14:06
I have a box of imi m193 I ran at a class.

It ran fine. Not stellar accuracy by any means, but its 55gr brass....I mean...itll work, but its no 77gr otm

Well, and I'm not really looking for match accuracy with my 55gr stuff. Just the IMI has a lot of purported awesomeness, I'm gonna need another case of ammo soon and it has enough good said about it to make me wonder.

Part of me thinks "It's all M193... how much different/better could it really be?"

VIPER 237
4 June 2015, 14:32
There is a difference between XM193 and M193. X denotes that it does not meet the spec but is considered safe to fire, it may be higher pressure or velocity which is usually the case with the CCI Independence branded IMI XM193I, or it could be lower. Federal make the only true M193.

I have seen more pressure issue with the CCI XM193I than almost any other ammo. Make sure your rifle is a true 5.56 nato chamber.

Aragorn
4 June 2015, 15:13
There is a difference between XM193 and M193. X denotes that it does not meet the spec but is considered safe to fire, it may be higher pressure or velocity which is usually the case with the CCI Independence branded IMI XM193I, or it could be lower. Federal make the only true M193.

I have seen more pressure issue with the CCI XM193I than almost any other ammo. Make sure your rifle is a true 5.56 nato chamber.


I didn't know Independence was basically IMI XM193. All the rest I think is pretty much generally well known knowledge.

All I'm after is velocity and accuracy data, or things of note people may have observed while using it.

Slippers
4 June 2015, 15:44
Molon did a comparison of the M193 clones a few years back. IMI was the most accurate:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/511804_.html

As it turns out, he also tested wolf gold, and in his findings, it was slightly more accurate than the IMI. However, he tested with a different barrel. Plus, who really knows how consistent the manufacturers are over the years.

Wolf gold test (which is very recent):
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?167745-Range-Report-Wolf-Gold-55-Grain-FMJ

While wolf gold isn't billed as an M193 clone, it's fairly close in velocity. Also way cheaper. I shoot quite a bit of it since the brass is good for reloading.

Aragorn
4 June 2015, 15:54
Thanks!

Eric
4 June 2015, 16:19
Years ago I used to buy it by the case, when it was cheap. Accuracy was about the same as other loads, consistent and reliable. It was unavailable for a period of time, but appears to be back.

Thompson
4 June 2015, 19:26
We use LC and IMI 193 at work. From what I've been told IMI runs cleaner; I can't remember what else the guys at work said about IMI compared to LC, but I definitely remember them saying it runs cleaner. In essence we hold the IMI stuff to a higher quality than LC.

... but then again, our viewpoint is probably skewed drastically haha [BD]

Aragorn
4 June 2015, 21:19
Yeah... I'll get a case. I'll chrono is against some other stuff and see what's up. May just be Federal.

Molon
5 June 2015, 16:18
My question is does anyone have any ACTUAL data on this round? Particularly in comparison to say... Federal XM193?


Attack of the (M193) Clones


clone: one that appears to be a copy of an original form.



Genuine M193 must be tested for and pass all of the specifications laid out in the mil-spec, MIL-C-9963. The required areas of testing included in MIL-C-9963 range from velocity, accuracy, chamber pressure and port pressure to waterproofing, temperature stability, bullet extraction, case hardness, fouling and more.

Genuine US Military M193 can no longer be sold to civilians, thanks to the Clinton Administration. The ammunition that is sold on the commercial market with some form of “M193” in its nomenclature is often referred to as an “M193 clone” because it “appears to be a copy” of genuine M193, but we generally have no idea what specifications of MIL-C-9963 that this ammunition has passed, or has even been tested for.

M193 is loaded with a 55 grain FMJ bullet with a cannelure. The bullet itself, must meet required specifications to be used in genuine M193. For example, the specification for the thickness of the gilding metal jacket of the bullet is 0.021" with a tolerance of - 0.002". For comparison, the jacket of Hornady’s 55 grain FMJ bullet has a thickness of approximately 0.028”. Jacket thickness can have a significant effect on terminal ballistic properties, particularly that of fragmentation. Even the composition of the copper alloy used for the jacket and the lead used for the slug must meet mil-spec requirements for genuine M193.

Genuine US Military M193 can only be charged with powder that has been specifically approved by the US Military for use in this cartridge. If the ammunition in question is not loaded with one of the approved powders, it is not genuine M193 and naturally we have no way of determining what powder was used in a load simply by visual inspection.

Genuine M193 will have the annealing iris visible on the shoulder and neck portion of the case. It will also will have crimped and sealed primers. Genuine M193 has a crimped case mouth along with sealant at the case mouth.


The velocity specification for M193 as cited in MIL-C-9963F states:

]The average velocity of the sample cartridges, conditioned at 72 degrees, plus or minus 2 degrees Fahrenheit (F), shall be 3165 feet per second (ft/sec), plus or minus 40 ft/sec, at 78 feet from the muzzle of the weapon. The standard deviation of the velocities shall not exceed 40 ft/sec.

The specification is for a 20” barrel. Depending on multiple variables, this velocity specification equates to a muzzle velocity of approximately 3270 ft/sec, plus or minus 40 ft/sec.

I chronographed four different M193 clones back-to-back for comparison. All four of these loads are currently available on the commercial market (at the time of this writing). These loads were fired from a semi-automatic AR-15 with a chrome-lined, NATO chambered 20” Colt M16A2 barrel. The four loads are listed below:

IMI M193
American Eagle Tactical M193
Privi Partizan (PPU) M193
Winchester Q3131A1.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/g6jtfsjkou.jpg




http://www.box.net/shared/static/9e7m4fpm2n.jpg




M16A2 barrel.
http://www.box.net/shared/static/h8daj1jhf1.jpg




Chronographing of the M193 clones was conducted using an Oehler 35-P chronograph with “proof screen” technology. All velocities listed below are muzzle velocities as calculated from the instrumental velocities using Oehler’s Ballistic Explorer software program. All strings of fire consisted of 10 rounds each.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/52xzjapv7i.jpg




http://www.box.net/shared/static/q3lpmdumpm.jpg




Each round was single-loaded and cycled into the chamber from a magazine fitted with a single-load follower. The bolt locked-back after each shot allowing the chamber to cool in between each shot. This technique was used to mitigate the possible influence of “chamber-soak” on velocity data. Each new shot was fired in a consistent manner after hitting the bolt release. Atmospheric conditions were monitored and recorded using a Kestrel 4000 Pocket Weather Tracker.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/lku6pn9aym.jpg




Atmospheric conditions.

Temperature: 79 degrees F
Humidity: 42%
Barometric pressure: 30.19 inches of Hg
Elevation: 950 feet above sea level




http://www.box.net/shared/static/nh3vk2komi.jpg



The accuracy specification for M193 cited in MIL-C-9963F is as follows:

The average of the mean radii of all targets of the sample cartridges, fired at 200 yards, shall not exceed 2.0 inches.

These averages are from 10-shot groups fired from machine rested, bolt-actioned test barrels, such as the ones pictured below. All things being equal (which of course they seldom are) this specification equates to a mean radius of 1 inch at 100 yards.



http://www.box.net/shared/static/akn05ro96d.jpg




http://www.box.net/shared/static/vs86o5rcf9.jpg




I conducted an accuracy (technically, precision) evaluation of the same four M193 clones that were chronographed above, following my usual protocols. This accuracy evaluation used statistically significant shot-group sizes and every single shot in a fired group was included in the measurements. There was absolutely no use of any Group Reduction Techniques (e.g. fliers, target movement, Butterfly Shots). The shooting set-up will be described in detail below. As many of the significant variables as was practicable were controlled for. Pictures of the fired shot-groups will be posted for documentation.


All shooting was conducted from a concrete bench-rest from a distance of 100 yards (confirmed with a laser rangefinder.) The barrel used in the evaluation was free-floated. The free-float handguards of the rifle rested in a Sinclair Windage Benchrest, while the stock of the rifle rested in a Protektor bunny-ear rear bag. Sighting was accomplished via a Leupold VARI-X III set at 25X magnification and adjusted to be parallax-free at 100 yards. A mirage shade was attached to the objective-bell of the scope. Wind conditions on the shooting range were continuously monitored using a Wind Probe. The set-up was very similar to that pictured below.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/xo4duzdgtp.jpg




The Wind Probe.
http://www.box.net/shared/static/lkg47ptc04.jpg




The test vehicle for this evaluation was a 16” Colt HBAR with chrome lining, a NATO chamber and a 1:9” twist. This is the barrel found on the Colt 6721 carbine. This barrel was free-floated with a 10” LaRue free-float handguard. I specifically choose to evaluate the accuracy this ammunition using an AR-15 with a chrome-lined, NATO chambered barrel, as this is the type of barrel that is most commonly used to fire this type of ammunition. It is sometimes possible to obtain slightly better accuracy from mil-spec/NATO pressure loads by firing them from an AR-15 that has a stainless steel match-grade barrel with a hybrid chamber such as the Noveske NMmod0 chamber or the Wylde chamber for examples; but you're not going to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/9jkbf66dd6.jpg




http://www.box.net/shared/static/3bnl8bdr23.jpg




The 16” Colt HBAR is one of the most accurate “off the shelf” chrome-lined, NATO chambered AR-15 barrels that I’ve evaluated. Three 10-shot groups fired from this barrel from a distance of 100 yards using match-grade hand-loads topped with Sierra 52 grain MatchKings had extreme spreads of:


0.85”
1.14”
0.88”

for a 10-shot group average extreme spread of 0.96”. Over-laying the three 10-shot groups on each other using RSI Shooting Lab software produced a 30-shot composite target with a mean radius of 0.32”.




IMI M193

http://www.box.net/shared/static/binxmdj27l.jpg



Three 10-shot groups of the IMI M193 were fired in a row from a distance of 100 yards from the Colt 16” HBAR. Those three groups had extreme spreads of:

2.83”
2.77”
2.80”

for a 10-shot group average extreme spread of 2.80”. The three 10-shot groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group. The composite group had a mean radius of 0.97”.


The smallest 10-shot group.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/jqz9iexntb.jpg




The 30-shot composite group.


http://www.box.net/shared/static/osl5r38t2u.jpg




American Eagle Tactical XM193

http://www.box.net/shared/static/5oigjl4jts.jpg


Three 10-shot groups of the American Eagle Tactical XM193 fired in a row had extreme spreads of:

3.01”
3.25”
3.57”

For a 10-shot group average of 3.27”. The 30-shot composite group had a mean radius of 0.98”.


The smallest 10-shot group.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/41x28np8kb.jpg



The 30-shot composite group.


http://www.box.net/shared/static/my2ctihg0m.jpg




Prvi Partizan M193

http://www.box.net/shared/static/a1azuheh16.jpg




Three 10-shot groups of the Priv Partizan M193 were fired in a row from a distance of 100 yards. The groups had extreme spreads of:

2.72”
3.89”
3.74”

for a 10-shot group average extreme spread of 3.45”. All three of these groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius for the composite group was 1.01”.


The smallest 10-shot group of PPU M193

http://www.box.net/shared/static/fynap95fhq.jpg



The 30-shot composite group.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/64hrapyyj9.jpg




Winchester Q3131A1

http://www.box.net/shared/static/qfybmjcjzt.jpg



Three 10-shot groups of the Winchester Q3131A1 load were fired in a row. The extreme spreads of those groups measured:

2.95”
3.73”
3.35”

for a 10-shot average extreme spread of 3.34”. The three 10-shot groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius for the composite group was 1.05”.


The smallest 10-shot group.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/k56ny29u1q.jpg



The 30-shot composite group.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/pl19x6ayp9.jpg





Here is a summary of the results of the accuracy evaluation of the four M193 clones.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/e4ckmi2y36.jpg





1:7" twist versus 1:9" twist with 55 grain FMJ Ammunition

Using the Prvi M193 ammunition, I did an accuracy comparison firing the 55 grain FMJ load from both a 1:9” twist Colt HBAR and a 1:7” twist Colt HBAR. Four 10-shot groups were fired from each barrel from a bench-rest at a distance of 100 yards. The groups from each barrel were over-layed to form 40-shot composite groups. The mean radii of the composite groups were nearly identical.


http://www.box.net/shared/static/o03ufeured.jpg



....

Aragorn
5 June 2015, 16:31
That's where Slippers link took me. VERY helpful. [:D]