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Jerry R
3 August 2015, 09:32
About nine months ago, I moved from Georgia to Florida. My original trust does not meet the requirements of the trust laws in Florida. An estate/trust lawyer that does NFA work for a very large gun owners group in my area has told me that if I wish to acquire new items, I will need a new trust that meets Florida's trust requirements.

The old trust is still valid and remains in effect; there is no requirement to transfer items from the old trust to the new one. He said there is no problem with an individual having multiple NFA trusts; said some people have a unique trust for each NFA item - I guess easier to allocate to multiple beneficiaries - not sure on that one.

Anyway, have any WEVO members had a similar situation arise - move to a new state and need a new trust to acquire new NFA items? Or, have you used the "old" state's trust to get new stuff?

The only problem I see is that the Form 4 will have a Florida address, and the existing trust says it is fully compliant with Georgia's trust laws.

Slippers
3 August 2015, 11:01
Out of curiosity, what are the differences in trust law between Georgia and Florida? It just seems odd that your current trust is still valid, yet it doesn't meet the requirements of trust law in Florida.

Jerry R
3 August 2015, 11:09
The only difference I know of so far is that Georgia only requires a Notary, Florida requires two witnesses and the Notary. The verbiage in the Georgia trust is so generic that I can't imagine there being a lot of differences. And the Georgia trust is valid for the items in the trust no matter where you relocate to (per the lawyer). The trust was created in Georgia and the items placed into the trust while in Georgia. Supposedly, if I wanted to add non-NFA items to the Georgia Trust it would be okay. Having the new one is strictly to pass through BATFE for new acquisitions.

I am researching this.

Edit: Called the NFA Branch of BATFE (304) 616-4500. "Sorry, that is a question for the lawyers. We typically do not answer those types of questions." Transferred me to a "specialist" who was unavailable.

Slippers
3 August 2015, 11:20
Hmm. I *highly* doubt the BATFE is fluent in the trust laws of each state. They regularly approve form 4s on invalid trusts. :)

I'd definitely get another opinion from a different attorney. If I have a chance I may show this thread to my father tonight, who is my attorney and wrote my NFA trust.

Jerry R
3 August 2015, 11:36
I *highly* doubt the BATFE is fluent in the trust laws of each state.

Yup, see edit above ...

Edit: 14:30 Appointment with the Trust Lawyer today. Better safe than sorry. $100 and a new trust. This one will have a short name for engraving (if required [BD])

Former11B
7 August 2015, 07:49
Yup, see edit above ...

Edit: 14:30 Appointment with the Trust Lawyer today. Better safe than sorry. $100 and a new trust. This one will have a short name for engraving (if required [BD])

Since I'm unfamiliar with NFA and trusts....do you mean to say you're creating a new trust for NEWLY acquired NFA items?

I guess it's confusing if one state doesn't recognize another's trusts but you dont have to change the trust they're currently in, how is it legal....

I suppose this is one benefit to an individual registration...much more simple if you move.

Jerry R
7 August 2015, 07:54
Sorry for the confusion. My Georgia Trust, while completely valid by Georgia and BATFE rules, does not meet Florida statute standards. All Georgia acquired NFA items will stay on that trust. The Florida Trust is only for new acquisitions. Multiple trusts are okay. If I wanted to transfer NFA items to the new trust, it would require a new transfer tax, as ownership would change. Not going to do that.

tact
7 August 2015, 08:22
I paid a bit more, but the trust I got is valid anywhere in the union. I am not even required to change anything even I were to move. Guntrustlawyer was well worth it.

Former11B
7 August 2015, 11:28
Sorry for the confusion. My Georgia Trust, while completely valid by Georgia and BATFE rules, does not meet Florida statute standards. All Georgia acquired NFA items will stay on that trust. The Florida Trust is only for new acquisitions. Multiple trusts are okay. If I wanted to transfer NFA items to the new trust, it would require a new transfer tax, as ownership would change. Not going to do that.

So the items on the GA trust, despite it not meeting FL standards, are OK to keep in Florida, as long as nothing new is placed in the GA trust as a FL resident?

gatordev
7 August 2015, 12:37
So the items on the GA trust, despite it not meeting FL standards, are OK to keep in Florida, as long as nothing new is placed in the GA trust as a FL resident?

Think of a trust as a person. A person can only have one residency (military excluded), but a person can take his possessions from one state to another. So in this case, the GA trust can take "his"/its possessions from GA to FL, because as a GA "resident," it's still following GA law. But since it is a GA resident (as written), it can't acquire new possessions in FL (because it doesn't meet the specific state requirements), just like how a person who resides in GA can't go buy a firearm in FL without shipping it to a dealer for the transfer. If you have a trust that is good everywhere (which I'm kind of surprised exists), it's like a military member who has dual residency. I'm over-simplifying it, but you get the idea.

People get bogged down about trusts and think they're firearm specific, but they're not. Obviously there are trusts written specifically for firearms, but at the end of the day, it's just a conduit to move property legally from one person's possession to another while getting around any tax penalty. In the case of a NFA trust, it's getting around the NFA tax, but it also has the second order effect of getting around the CLEO sign-off.

Jerry R
7 August 2015, 15:49
So the items on the GA trust, despite it not meeting FL standards, are OK to keep in Florida, as long as nothing new is placed in the GA trust as a FL resident?

Yes Sir.

Former11B
7 August 2015, 16:08
Alright thanks, all. Being as I have no Trust experience, just trying to wrap my brain around it