PDA

View Full Version : Frustration with Silencer Shop...



alamo5000
26 August 2015, 19:07
I am posting this up pretty much out of frustration. I am just saying for the record unless something changes or I get a real legitimate reason for their bullshit I will not buy another product from Silencer Shop, not because of the products, but because of them and the way they are trying to force people to do things now. For some reason they are changing their business model. Maybe someone can shed some light on the subject for me before I lose confidence in them.

I personally have been considering buying a couple of other suppressors (I don't even have the one yet) but I've already been setting money aside for the other purchases. Some of that is because I already have the guns for them and others are because I am getting closer to making a decision on a new build. Long story short if I plan it out and mind my finances (barring that I get a pay raise) I could buy new stuff every 3 or 4 months. Realistically I have at least 3 more suppressors that are on the short list with a potential 4th candidate. I can't go crazy but it's doable over the next year or less.

That said I am pretty displeased with their new system they have in place (going forward on new purchases). Any silencer sold now will be form 3'd to your local guy first... and then they will do the form 4 afterwards. You have no choice in the matter anymore. I bought from them the first time precisely because they skipped the Form 3. I have heard the bullshit stories that 'form 3 only takes 2 weeks' stuff before. I don't like it at all, especially since I am more than willing to drive to Austin to get my silencer if need be.

Long story short, the whole plan pretty much sucks as far as I'm concerned and I really don't care what the reason is for doing it. I've sent them at least a dozen people that have already made purchases over the last few months, but no more. Those other folks saw me doing it, started asking questions, they've always wanted a suppressor, so basically I passed along information that I've learned (largely) from WEVO about how owning a silencer isn't impossible and next thing you know....

If I want to drive to Austin to get my silencer (a 2 hour trip) to avoid an additional 2 or 3 month wait, I will take the drive every time.

I don't know everything there is to know about silencers but if this crap keeps up I will find alternative buying methods from people willing to do business directly with me. If need be I will find people that have stuff that meets my needs in stock and buy them there.

My whole thing is if they have a vault full of silencers sitting in Austin and I am willing to pay and drive over there in person to get it, what's the problem? I want to know what in $%# is wrong with me being able to do that? But now for anything new, it's no longer an option. Every single purchase is now forced to have a form 3 attached to it when in my view this is completely unnecessary.

We have one of the biggest companies/dealers in the US right up the street and now they are taking to messing with people. It's very much not cool.

Sorry about the rant, but this has been bugging the crap out of me lately.

Dstrbdmedic167
26 August 2015, 19:15
Long and short... They've decided to become a distributor for other sellers. I've been seeing them talk about it for some time. I also think it also came about after some pressure from the ATF due to the sheer volume they were moving.

You are not the only one that is upset with the move and while a Pain for you, business wise for them I think it made the most sense. Not that I agree just stating things from the outside looking in. I'd be just as mad as you are.

Best way to avoid a form 3 is to find a dealer closer that is and will stock what you want. Having said that how long did you wait before your can was back in stock? I believe it was about the same amount of time or longer than a form 3 takes. They're not at bad as they seem....

UWone77
26 August 2015, 19:26
No suppressor is worth a 2-3 hour drive each way. Unless you have no other option, I'd just find a local stocking dealer and do business with them.

alamo5000
26 August 2015, 19:31
It was about a 3 month wait if I recall.

And to be honest if there is some regulatory reason for it then that's one thing. But overall, hell no.

The thing is for Texas residents it's actually a bit more expensive to deal with Silencer Shop... Texas sales tax etc etc... so if you buy it online and ship it in you avoid sales tax but have to have a form 3 and an FFL fee. Based on a local FFL that can do NFA transfers vs silencer shop's prices etc etc... I will be roughly 10% better off buying online and having it shipped in. If I am going to wait on a form 3 I am certainly not going to pay extra to do it. And then on top of that I can go to those guys and be at their office in about 20-25 minutes after I get off work vs 2+ hours each way to drive to Austin.

I will pay a premium to skip the bullshit and that's pretty much what I did the first time around. But in the past month or so or however long it's been they changed their stuff so all those future purchases are now no longer going to be done the same way.

I think you nailed it. I guess I will just go see what they have on the shelves and buy that stuff. I have 3 separate shelf stocked NFA dealers within 30 minutes of my house (that I know of) and there might be more.

I don't know for sure, but the whole thing casts doubt on what I wanted to do. At this point I really don't know. Hopefully I can find what I want on the shelf somewhere within a 200 mile radius of me. I am sure that won't be that big of a problem (I hope).

alamo5000
26 August 2015, 19:41
No suppressor is worth a 2-3 hour drive each way. Unless you have no other option, I'd just find a local stocking dealer and do business with them.

In Texas that is pretty common to drive really far for pretty much everything. I drive about 80 miles each way to go watch a baseball game or to go get Korean food or get some decent Chinese food. There isn't much of anything that is close in Texas.

Honestly if I drive to Austin I make it a fun trip regardless of what I am going for because there honestly is a lot of stuff to do over there and I have friends there. Go spend the weekend, get my stuff, go have fun and do other stuff I would be doing anyway.

It's not so much going to Austin for me, but the extra layer of bullshit and wait time is certainly a turn off. If I am going to be waiting at least it should be convenient. Wait for my form 3 (skip the tax) and drive 20 min after work to have visit for my stuff in jail. Hell, the people even have a shooting range on site just in case I want to go shoot my own suppressor while it's in jail.

If I would have form 3'ed the one that I got from out of state it would have been about $60-$70 cheaper to be honest. That said I didn't want to get caught on some bullshit form 3 technicality so I waited.

The whole thing is frustrating to me, not about this one, but about the stuff I am planning to get.

DutyUse
26 August 2015, 21:08
Wow thanks for posting Alamo. I'd been planning on using Silencer Shop when i had some $ saved

alamo5000
26 August 2015, 21:16
Wow thanks for posting Alamo. I'd been planning on using Silencer Shop when i had some $ saved

If you are not in Texas it won't make any difference to you one way or another. It will be the same as it's always been.

cjd3
26 August 2015, 23:09
I used them for my first (still in jail) can, and it took 3 weeks for the form 3 to clear, then they sent in the 4. Back in May, it $70. Now it looks like it's free. For the out of Texas buyers, especially those from the biggest state, it's a great deal. Nice folks too.

Farva
27 August 2015, 01:59
Correct me if im wrong, but in Texas cant you have the suppressor shipped to your door step? I could be mistaken on this fact, but being that Im from Oklahoma I have always envied such a thing if its true.

Former11B
27 August 2015, 02:54
No suppressor is worth a 2-3 hour drive each way. Unless you have no other option, I'd just find a local stocking dealer and do business with them.

PSA is really the only local NFA dealer for me and their prices are a good $150+ higher on everything. I'm not buying an $800 5.56 Spec War when people are buying them on F3s for $399 and getting them shipped. Also, the closest Class 3 dealer I'll transfer stuff to is about 90 minutes one way, because their transfer fee is fair...$50 (but the guy who sold me my Recce 5 took that amount off the the total) because PSA charges a $200 NFA fee if you Form 3 something to them.

There are only a handful of NFA dealers in SC and they kinda control the price/inventory model so unless you want an overpriced Surefire, SiCo, or AAC can, there's really no option BUT to drive in my area.

Now that SS is going to be shipping cans only, they're going to be overwhelming the ATF with F3s...I bet the wait time on those will triple. I just had a Form 3 go through last month in 3 weeks. Not horrible, especially when the overall wait will still be <5 months.

alamo5000
27 August 2015, 03:49
Correct me if im wrong, but in Texas cant you have the suppressor shipped to your door step? I could be mistaken on this fact, but being that Im from Oklahoma I have always envied such a thing if its true.

You can, but it adds a couple of weeks and they have to send notification to the chief LEO in your area first, and I assume after a week or two (I assume if he doesn't object) they can mail them to you directly. I've never done it but it is true. How it works exactly I don't know.

Technically I think you are correct... so I really wouldn't have to drive to Austin if I didn't want to.

alamo5000
27 August 2015, 04:02
PSA is really the only local NFA dealer for me and their prices are a good $150+ higher on everything. I'm not buying an $800 5.56 Spec War when people are buying them on F3s for $399 and getting them shipped. Also, the closest Class 3 dealer I'll transfer stuff to is about 90 minutes one way, because their transfer fee is fair...$50 (but the guy who sold me my Recce 5 took that amount off the the total) because PSA charges a $200 NFA fee if you Form 3 something to them.

There are only a handful of NFA dealers in SC and they kinda control the price/inventory model so unless you want an overpriced Surefire, SiCo, or AAC can, there's really no option BUT to drive in my area.

Now that SS is going to be shipping cans only, they're going to be overwhelming the ATF with F3s...I bet the wait time on those will triple. I just had a Form 3 go through last month in 3 weeks. Not horrible, especially when the overall wait will still be <5 months.

If it only adds a week then fine, so be it. I want to say for the record that I am HOPING (Really I am) that I am wrong about all this stuff. I don't want to be throwing anyone under the bus but I don't really like what I see from SS.

Like I said earlier though, I have at least 3 NFA dealers within 30 minutes of me. At least two of those maintain stock, of what exactly, I don't know. The one place is notorious for being over priced on absolutely everything though.

All that said (at least around me) there are several options that could be very reasonable. If I want something special though that isn't in stock though I would still be left doing a form 3.

Cotton68spc
27 August 2015, 04:12
Check out capital armory they are great to deal , have an easy pay system , and have sales all the time !!!!!


Check me out on YouTube and Facebook

Vel
27 August 2015, 06:33
As Alamo knows, I've been dealing with an equally inconvenient transaction with Silencershop as of late. I'll share my story to at least give people an insight to form their own opinions. I've never been one to bash a company or wish them ill fate but sometimes people need to know the details. I'm from Ohio first off so the form 3 was a given, figured a couple weeks at most and 3-4 month wait til I had the Saker in hand.

4/20/15 I purchased a Saker 7.62 through their direct program, which is no longer in use therefore I can't request my fee be refunded (how convenient). Bought the trust, tax stamp fee and suppressor through them so everything was in line, within 30 minutes I had my trust and local dealer picked out. 4/20 the form 3 was submitted and the next day I had my trust filled out, notarized and sent back in.

6/12/15 I send an email to see if there was any update as I would have thought I'd receive one by now from the form 3 approval and form 4 sent in along with the check being cashed. Response I got back was minimal at best, "No update yet when you're from 3 approves we will notify you and send you an email. Kind regards, Jarrott" Now read that a couple times and I'm not one to be a grammar nazi but c'mon, do they have a 1st grader as an intern replying to emails??

7/28/15 Quick update to let me know that the Saker is being shipped to my local dealer. Call them and this is the first they were aware of the transfer, 3 months AFTER the initial purchase. Track the package and it arrives as planned. Cool, couple stumbles but no big deal, should be a couple more weeks until I have my stamp and suppressor.

8/24/15 Get an email update saying the check was cashed and the application was received by the ATF. Well WTF, you mean it took 4 months for a form 3 to come back?? Here's the email I sent and the reply I got back.

"I guess being this is my first NFA purchase I don't completely understand the timeline well enough yet. So my Form 3 approval took roughly 4 months, the Form 4 that was dated 4/21 was submitted I'm guessing around 8/17, then the check cashed 8/24 and now I have to wait 3-4 more months to get the approval on that and my tax stamp?"

"Good Afternoon,

You are correct on the timeline. For this order.

Your original form 3 was lost and had to be resubmitted to the ATF. We should have communicated this to you sooner. I’m sorry for the lack of an update. If you do decide to order from us in the future your form 3 wait time should not take that long.

Thanks,
Chase Smith"

That's it, nothing about refunding my $70 direct fee that they charge, just a dry we f'd up and have a nice day email. Now I can't say they lost it in house or it was lost en-route but when I pay your extra fee for you to do all the paperwork, I expect there to be more accountability.

Now will I go to them for my next purchase? I don't know yet. Like I said at the beginning though, I don't wish them ill fate or to go out of business or anything like that. I think there were miscommunications that shouldn't have happened and unfortunately I got the short end of the stick. With that said, make your own conclusions and choices when buying a suppressor. Would I recommend them as a place to go for a one stop shop, yes. Do I think there are better alternatives be it more initial leg work, yes. Do I understand that you probably want to punch me in the throat for making you read all that, hell yes![BD]

Slippers
27 August 2015, 08:17
Did SS lose the form 3 or the ATF?

Also, form 3 times vary. Last summer SS submitted my form 3 in July and it wasn't approved until the very end of October. Not their fault, though.

UWone77
27 August 2015, 08:23
Did SS lose the form 3 or the ATF?

Also, form 3 times vary. Last summer SS submitted my form 3 in July and it wasn't approved until the very end of October. Not their fault, though.

I had a Form 3 transfer a few years ago from Gun Gallery to RA. Not sure who lost the Form 3, but it ended up taking over a year for a Form 3. ATF did fast track my Form 4 because of the hold ups, and had it a month later.

alamo5000
27 August 2015, 09:21
Also, form 3 times vary. Last summer SS submitted my form 3 in July and it wasn't approved until the very end of October. Not their fault, though.

One of the reasons I really dislike the SS changes. I won't form 3 unless I am forced. I've had several people say they have had similar experiences.

Vel has a legit gripe though. I would be pissed too.

Dstrbdmedic167
27 August 2015, 09:30
Cotton had the same thing happen last year. Took him almost a year I think. They blamed the ATF I believe as well but how many times is it their(ATF) fault before the fault starts falling elsewhere...

toolboxluis00200
27 August 2015, 09:38
Bush fault

tact
27 August 2015, 15:32
I had three transactions through SS. Their prices were the lowest I could find at the time of each purchase. All painless, and easy, with the last suppressor being shipped and delivered hassle free to my door the end of May. I live 10 hours away in basically BFE. I drove up to get the first one, but had the last two shipped. That was easy as well. Given the outrageous volume of paperwork and hardware that is processed and delivered I'm sure there is bound to be an unfortunate snafu or two. Not making excuses, but I've had some of the finest retailers screw things up a time or two as well. Society wants $15/hr to flip a burger, so I can't imagine it's easy to fill a company with the best and brightest. If SS has changed their business model, then so be it. After all, it's his business and he's probably going to do what's best for it. If you don't like it, then just take your money elsewhere.

Jerry R
27 August 2015, 16:06
Researching, SS was the only shop I could find that had an AAC 762-SD in stock. Placed an online order on July 17th. Received a confirmation email and serial number the next day. On August 25th I sent an email requesting a status update. In less than five minutes I received a reply stating "Your Form-3 was approved yesterday. When we receive the approved form in the mail, we will ship the suppressor to your SOT." Now, not sure how they know my Form-3 was approved if they did not actually receive the approved form in the mail, but ... Not questioning the response unless I don't receive a tracking number in the next few days.

So far, hard for me to complain. But I am not a Texas resident and would have had to do a Form-3 regardless. On social media They posted a picture of a stack of approved Form-4 "Stamps" on their scales that weighed over 3 pounds, with the comment "Some people will be getting an early Christmas." Implication was that all those came in a batch.

tact
27 August 2015, 16:28
That stack is what they get every month from the ATF.

Former11B
28 August 2015, 03:59
I didn't know a dealer could ship a suppressor to another dealer before the form 3 is approved.



As Alamo knows, I've been dealing with an equally inconvenient transaction with Silencershop as of late. I'll share my story to at least give people an insight to form their own opinions. I've never been one to bash a company or wish them ill fate but sometimes people need to know the details. I'm from Ohio first off so the form 3 was a given, figured a couple weeks at most and 3-4 month wait til I had the Saker in hand.

4/20/15 I purchased a Saker 7.62 through their direct program, which is no longer in use therefore I can't request my fee be refunded (how convenient). Bought the trust, tax stamp fee and suppressor through them so everything was in line, within 30 minutes I had my trust and local dealer picked out. 4/20 the form 3 was submitted and the next day I had my trust filled out, notarized and sent back in.

6/12/15 I send an email to see if there was any update as I would have thought I'd receive one by now from the form 3 approval and form 4 sent in along with the check being cashed. Response I got back was minimal at best, "No update yet when you're from 3 approves we will notify you and send you an email. Kind regards, Jarrott" Now read that a couple times and I'm not one to be a grammar nazi but c'mon, do they have a 1st grader as an intern replying to emails??

7/28/15 Quick update to let me know that the Saker is being shipped to my local dealer. Call them and this is the first they were aware of the transfer, 3 months AFTER the initial purchase. Track the package and it arrives as planned. Cool, couple stumbles but no big deal, should be a couple more weeks until I have my stamp and suppressor.

8/24/15 Get an email update saying the check was cashed and the application was received by the ATF. Well WTF, you mean it took 4 months for a form 3 to come back?? Here's the email I sent and the reply I got back.

"I guess being this is my first NFA purchase I don't completely understand the timeline well enough yet. So my Form 3 approval took roughly 4 months, the Form 4 that was dated 4/21 was submitted I'm guessing around 8/17, then the check cashed 8/24 and now I have to wait 3-4 more months to get the approval on that and my tax stamp?"

"Good Afternoon,

You are correct on the timeline. For this order.

Your original form 3 was lost and had to be resubmitted to the ATF. We should have communicated this to you sooner. I’m sorry for the lack of an update. If you do decide to order from us in the future your form 3 wait time should not take that long.

Thanks,
Chase Smith"

That's it, nothing about refunding my $70 direct fee that they charge, just a dry we f'd up and have a nice day email. Now I can't say they lost it in house or it was lost en-route but when I pay your extra fee for you to do all the paperwork, I expect there to be more accountability.

Now will I go to them for my next purchase? I don't know yet. Like I said at the beginning though, I don't wish them ill fate or to go out of business or anything like that. I think there were miscommunications that shouldn't have happened and unfortunately I got the short end of the stick. With that said, make your own conclusions and choices when buying a suppressor. Would I recommend them as a place to go for a one stop shop, yes. Do I think there are better alternatives be it more initial leg work, yes. Do I understand that you probably want to punch me in the throat for making you read all that, hell yes![BD]

Cotton68spc
28 August 2015, 04:44
Cotton had the same thing happen last year. Took him almost a year I think. They blamed the ATF I believe as well but how many times is it their(ATF) fault before the fault starts falling elsewhere...

Yep true story I won't use them again


Check me out on YouTube and Facebook

Vel
28 August 2015, 05:11
I didn't know a dealer could ship a suppressor to another dealer before the form 3 is approved.

I don't believe it was, 7/28 Is when I assume the form 3 was approved.

Former11B
28 August 2015, 13:28
I don't believe it was, 7/28 Is when I assume the form 3 was approved.

Ah, sorry, I misread what occurred on the following date entry. I made the (incorrect) connection the can shipped before the F3 was approved

Lots of people still blame SS for crashing the ATF's servers when the E-File thing was happening, leading to lots of headaches and eventually the ATF shutting it down. They kept mass-uploading and tying up the servers...ultimately the ATF's system couldn't handle it BUT, SS really had no choice as they were paid to do it and they generated a massive amount of Form 3s on a daily basis.

GRIFFIN ARMAMENT
29 August 2015, 15:59
Ah, sorry, I misread what occurred on the following date entry. I made the (incorrect) connection the can shipped before the F3 was approved

Lots of people still blame SS for crashing the ATF's servers when the E-File thing was happening, leading to lots of headaches and eventually the ATF shutting it down. They kept mass-uploading and tying up the servers...ultimately the ATF's system couldn't handle it BUT, SS really had no choice as they were paid to do it and they generated a massive amount of Form 3s on a daily basis.

The crashing of the ststem was probably a result of allowing people to use it for form 1's. Those users probably outnumber dealers 20 to one. Also the interface was graphic heavy and should have been almost like ms dos in order to handle demand. It wasnt silencer shop that crashed the system.

alamo5000
29 August 2015, 16:51
The crashing of the ststem was probably a result of allowing people to use it for form 1's. Those users probably outnumber dealers 20 to one. Also the interface was graphic heavy and should have been almost like ms dos in order to handle demand. It wasnt silencer shop that crashed the system.

This is a question more than a statement because I am really new to the whole NFA thing. But can't you file form 1 online right now? I was under the impression that we can log in and do form 1 ourselves. It seems to handle all those just fine.

That said kind of supporting what you are saying to so.e degree...I saw a graphic that showed NFA items that are out there in public...and silencers (form 4) were way outnumbering SBRs. I think it was 4 or 5 to one or something like that.

Just in what little I've seen it seems like just the sheer volume at all of form 4 was probably at fault.

Former11B
30 August 2015, 17:05
The crashing of the ststem was probably a result of allowing people to use it for form 1's. Those users probably outnumber dealers 20 to one. Also the interface was graphic heavy and should have been almost like ms dos in order to handle demand. It wasnt silencer shop that crashed the system.

I was fairly certain SS wasn't to blame; but some articles indicating they did were published and the word sort of circulated forums and got passed around as fact.

I don't (and didn't) use that system so I don't have any first hand experience with it. I have seen a LOT of postings though about people logging on and getting kicked out, unable to upload, etc so I know it did cause a ton of frustration so people were looking for something to blame. Funny they didn't blame the server built and run by the lowest bidder....

alamo5000
30 August 2015, 17:19
Here is that graphic I was talking about.

It shows 319,797 total SBR and SBS combined vs 792,282 for silencers alone. That's just over 2x the volume.

http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/NFA-2015-2014-compared-gunscom-660.png

Former11B
30 August 2015, 18:47
I'm surprised full auto is so high in numbers compared to SBRs, but it makes me happy to know a million people have bought F/A weapons in the last two years. I'm sure in some instances the same gun was bought and resold, but if a million full auto guns were bought in the last two years, I wonder how many Pre-'86 legally transferable guns are out there? And God that law sucks so bad.

cjd3
31 August 2015, 00:23
Well, I just made my second purchase with SS. The savings was worth the 3-4 week form 3 filing. So far I'm pleased with their service. I'll follow up in a month when can 1 comes in, and later for 2.

gatordev
31 August 2015, 04:22
I'm surprised full auto is so high in numbers compared to SBRs, but it makes me happy to know a million people have bought F/A weapons in the last two years. I'm sure in some instances the same gun was bought and resold, but if a million full auto guns were bought in the last two years, I wonder how many Pre-'86 legally transferable guns are out there? And God that law sucks so bad.

The number that gets thrown around is somewhere around ~170K of transferable weapons. I was surprised to see 50K on that chart as well. I'm guessing some of those are LE or dealer transfers. Given the slowdown at the NFA Branch for transfers in 2013 and 2014, I'm not sure people could flip guns that fast, on top of which the MG market appeared to level out in 2014, so flipping a gun wasn't as beneficial.

Former11B
31 August 2015, 18:43
The number that gets thrown around is somewhere around ~170K of transferable weapons. I was surprised to see 50K on that chart as well. I'm guessing some of those are LE or dealer transfers. Given the slowdown at the NFA Branch for transfers in 2013 and 2014, I'm not sure people could flip guns that fast, on top of which the MG market appeared to level out in 2014, so flipping a gun wasn't as beneficial.

That's 500k a year. Either the chart is wrong or there are a whole lot more than 170,000 transferable weapons out there

alamo5000
31 August 2015, 18:50
That's 500k a year. Either the chart is wrong or there are a whole lot more than 170,000 transferable weapons out there

Do LEO agencies need to transfers the same way civilians do?

I would assume most LEO Agencies can buy new fully auto weapons but they have to go through dealers too... I don't know exactly how that all works but it's a thought. Possibly all those transfers are not merely civilian use and ownership.

gatordev
1 September 2015, 05:07
That's 500k a year. Either the chart is wrong or there are a whole lot more than 170,000 transferable weapons out there

You're right, I missed the extra zero. That is a ginormous number. While the ATF won't come out and say the exact number, they've said it's around the 170K-200K mark for transferable MGs. That's why I said I'm guessing a lot of those numbers (assuming they're even remotely true) are for manufacturers or LE (which are non-transferable MGs), as Alamo said above. They're still registered in the database and require a Form.

I went to the actual article and it states the data comes from the ATF (in July, so not sure how they know the 2015 numbers yet), but didn't bother to provide a link to the actual report they're quoting, so who knows what the whole story is.

gatordev
1 September 2015, 14:00
So I was thinking about this chart on my way to work today and think I figured out the disconnect (at least for me). It looks like the chart is showing total registered, and not total registered in that year. The latter was how I was reading it initially. So from 2014 to 2015, ~30K NEW MGs had been registered. That still seems like a huge number for LE/SOTs, but the total number of ~500K total makes a little more sense. ~200K transferables and ~300K on Form 10s (or whatever the form number is).

Former11B
2 September 2015, 04:57
Yeah, that sounds more accurate. That's actually way worse, because that means the Class III/NFA community is even smaller than I thought. It's made leaps and bounds in the last couple years, though.

gatordev
2 September 2015, 14:30
Yeah, that sounds more accurate. That's actually way worse, because that means the Class III/NFA community is even smaller than I thought. It's made leaps and bounds in the last couple years, though.

Yeah. For as long as suppressors and SBRs have been around, you'd think it'd be more. Again, if the article had bothered to actually link the ATF data, it would have been helpful. I'd go look for it, but I've discovered some other new shiny object by now.

That said, ~200K new suppressors in one year is pretty impressive growth.

alamo5000
2 September 2015, 17:09
That said, ~200K new suppressors in one year is pretty impressive growth.

That would make it somewhere around a $150-$200 million dollar a year industry...that's pretty interesting.

Jerry R
3 September 2015, 17:02
SS sent me an email this morning. Form-3 is back, they shipped it today to my SOT and provided a tracking number. Just under 7 weeks from order placed to shipped to SOT.

Former11B
4 September 2015, 06:43
SS sent me an email this morning. Form-3 is back, they shipped it today to my SOT and provided a tracking number. Just under 7 weeks from order placed to shipped to SOT.

Was the can backordered?

UWone77
4 September 2015, 21:17
Well Silencer Shop just signed up as a Site Sponsor, so I'm hoping they have someone sign in to answer and address some of these questions and issues.

toolboxluis00200
4 September 2015, 22:05
Very cool they joing

alamo5000
5 September 2015, 07:25
Well Silencer Shop just signed up as a Site Sponsor, so I'm hoping they have someone sign in to answer and address some of these questions and issues.

I hope so too. The (one guy) that I have dealt with there has been more than nice. And for the other silencer that I bought from them it so far it's been pretty good but that wasn't through this new system they have. My objection is about 'new' purchases going forward. That said it's not just me who isn't all that excited about some of the stuff going on either. I have heard from several people here and elsewhere about it.

It would be nice to get it addressed.

For me, if given the option I would still rather drive to Austin and visit friends, have a good time and pick up my silencer than I would wait on or even risk waiting on a Form 3. I don't like the idea of being compelled to Form 3 anything merely because of their choice. All it takes is one Form 3 to get screwed up and your stuff goes to never never land. It defeats the entire purpose being buying from a stocking dealer. For me that was my whole point of buying from them in the first place, or at least a major reason.

Fair is fair and everyone should have a chance to explain but the concerns are out there so hopefully they do join the discussion.

Jerry R
5 September 2015, 11:10
Was the can backordered?

No, it was in stock. Just took that long, I guess. But, again - they have been extremely responsive to any and all inquiries I have made.

Silencer Shop
8 September 2015, 11:35
Hey guys I just found this thread so I'll address the questions.

toolboxluis00200
8 September 2015, 11:39
Hey guys I just found this thread so I'll address the questions.

Make your video longer to darn short. [BD]

Silencer Shop
8 September 2015, 11:51
Long and short... They've decided to become a distributor for other sellers. I've been seeing them talk about it for some time. I also think it also came about after some pressure from the ATF due to the sheer volume they were moving.

True we did become a distributor but it wasn't from any outside pressure I can assure you of that. Here was out thought process:
1. Make it easier for people nation wide to buy silencers
2. Create competition in the market place by allowing FFL's that previously had no online presence to compete for business
3. Create a system that would do away with transfer fees

So the new program allows people to purchase the silencer through us and have it shipped to an FFL near them with Silencer Shop still handling the paperwork. So a buyer selects the FFL on the silencer page (and pays the price that the FFL is asking) and purchases a tax stamp. Silencer Shop then handles the form 3 and the form 4. The customer just picks up the silencer at the FFL. We file the form 4 about two weeks after the form 3 so it only adds about two weeks wither you are in Texas or not.

Silencer Shop
8 September 2015, 12:02
If you are not in Texas it won't make any difference to you one way or another. It will be the same as it's always been.

Except now there is no transfer fee. Also we file the form 4 while we are waiting on the form 3 approval.

Silencer Shop
8 September 2015, 12:05
Now that SS is going to be shipping cans only, they're going to be overwhelming the ATF with F3s...I bet the wait time on those will triple. I just had a Form 3 go through last month in 3 weeks. Not horrible, especially when the overall wait will still be <5 months.

Actually the only change is that now we form 3 to Texas so overall it doesn't really make that big of a difference since a small part of our business is Texas compared to the rest of the nation.

Silencer Shop
8 September 2015, 12:09
If it only adds a week then fine, so be it. I want to say for the record that I am HOPING (Really I am) that I am wrong about all this stuff. I don't want to be throwing anyone under the bus but I don't really like what I see from SS.

Like I said earlier though, I have at least 3 NFA dealers within 30 minutes of me. At least two of those maintain stock, of what exactly, I don't know. The one place is notorious for being over priced on absolutely everything though.

All that said (at least around me) there are several options that could be very reasonable. If I want something special though that isn't in stock though I would still be left doing a form 3.

Based on when this was posted we might have more FFL's in your area now, since we are adding new ones every day. Something to keep in mind is that we handle all the paperwork and you just pick up from the FFL that you select. Also we file the form 4 about 2 weeks after the form 3 so it doesn't add a ton of time to your transfer.

Dstrbdmedic167
8 September 2015, 12:25
Welcome and thanks for the Clarification! Glad to have you on board. I'll definitely give you guys a look next time!

Silencer Shop
8 September 2015, 12:34
As Alamo knows, I've been dealing with an equally inconvenient transaction with Silencershop as of late. I'll share my story to at least give people an insight to form their own opinions. I've never been one to bash a company or wish them ill fate but sometimes people need to know the details. I'm from Ohio first off so the form 3 was a given, figured a couple weeks at most and 3-4 month wait til I had the Saker in hand.

4/20/15 I purchased a Saker 7.62 through their direct program, which is no longer in use therefore I can't request my fee be refunded (how convenient). Bought the trust, tax stamp fee and suppressor through them so everything was in line, within 30 minutes I had my trust and local dealer picked out. 4/20 the form 3 was submitted and the next day I had my trust filled out, notarized and sent back in.

6/12/15 I send an email to see if there was any update as I would have thought I'd receive one by now from the form 3 approval and form 4 sent in along with the check being cashed. Response I got back was minimal at best, "No update yet when you're from 3 approves we will notify you and send you an email. Kind regards, Jarrott" Now read that a couple times and I'm not one to be a grammar nazi but c'mon, do they have a 1st grader as an intern replying to emails??

7/28/15 Quick update to let me know that the Saker is being shipped to my local dealer. Call them and this is the first they were aware of the transfer, 3 months AFTER the initial purchase. Track the package and it arrives as planned. Cool, couple stumbles but no big deal, should be a couple more weeks until I have my stamp and suppressor.

8/24/15 Get an email update saying the check was cashed and the application was received by the ATF. Well WTF, you mean it took 4 months for a form 3 to come back?? Here's the email I sent and the reply I got back.

"I guess being this is my first NFA purchase I don't completely understand the timeline well enough yet. So my Form 3 approval took roughly 4 months, the Form 4 that was dated 4/21 was submitted I'm guessing around 8/17, then the check cashed 8/24 and now I have to wait 3-4 more months to get the approval on that and my tax stamp?"

"Good Afternoon,

You are correct on the timeline. For this order.

Your original form 3 was lost and had to be resubmitted to the ATF. We should have communicated this to you sooner. I’m sorry for the lack of an update. If you do decide to order from us in the future your form 3 wait time should not take that long.

Thanks,
Chase Smith"

That's it, nothing about refunding my $70 direct fee that they charge, just a dry we f'd up and have a nice day email. Now I can't say they lost it in house or it was lost en-route but when I pay your extra fee for you to do all the paperwork, I expect there to be more accountability.

Now will I go to them for my next purchase? I don't know yet. Like I said at the beginning though, I don't wish them ill fate or to go out of business or anything like that. I think there were miscommunications that shouldn't have happened and unfortunately I got the short end of the stick. With that said, make your own conclusions and choices when buying a suppressor. Would I recommend them as a place to go for a one stop shop, yes. Do I think there are better alternatives be it more initial leg work, yes. Do I understand that you probably want to punch me in the throat for making you read all that, hell yes![BD]

Vel, I'm very sorry that you had this issue. This is not a typical experience with a form 3 or Silencer Shop.

Silencer Shop
8 September 2015, 12:46
Cotton had the same thing happen last year. Took him almost a year I think. They blamed the ATF I believe as well but how many times is it their(ATF) fault before the fault starts falling elsewhere...

The story behind the form 3's that were lost is that two boxes that we sent to the ATF were lost. We worked with them to correct the issue. I agree that it looks fishy and can understand the skepticism.

Dstrbdmedic167
8 September 2015, 12:54
The story behind the form 3's that were lost is that two boxes that we sent to the ATF were lost. We worked with them to correct the issue. I agree that it looks fishy and can understand the skepticism.

No worries... Clean slate with me.. Looking forward to working with you in the future!

Silencer Shop
8 September 2015, 13:06
SS sent me an email this morning. Form-3 is back, they shipped it today to my SOT and provided a tracking number. Just under 7 weeks from order placed to shipped to SOT.

Form 3's are running all over the place. I've seen two weeks and I've seen 8 weeks. We just changed our system to file the form 4 about two weeks after the form 3 so that should speed everyone up.

Silencer Shop
8 September 2015, 13:10
I hope so too. The (one guy) that I have dealt with there has been more than nice. And for the other silencer that I bought from them it so far it's been pretty good but that wasn't through this new system they have. My objection is about 'new' purchases going forward. That said it's not just me who isn't all that excited about some of the stuff going on either. I have heard from several people here and elsewhere about it.

It would be nice to get it addressed.

For me, if given the option I would still rather drive to Austin and visit friends, have a good time and pick up my silencer than I would wait on or even risk waiting on a Form 3. I don't like the idea of being compelled to Form 3 anything merely because of their choice. All it takes is one Form 3 to get screwed up and your stuff goes to never never land. It defeats the entire purpose being buying from a stocking dealer. For me that was my whole point of buying from them in the first place, or at least a major reason.

Fair is fair and everyone should have a chance to explain but the concerns are out there so hopefully they do join the discussion.

Texas customers were the most affected by this change. I can understand wanting to keep things the way they were and understand the frustration with not being able to pick up at the store. The goal though is to create and environment with more FFL's and better prices for everyone. Also with the change in when we file the form 4 it should be about the same time as it was before when people had the silencers mailed to them.

Silencer Shop
8 September 2015, 13:11
No worries... Clean slate with me.. Looking forward to working with you in the future!

Thanks for the support.

gatordev
8 September 2015, 13:46
So first up, I have no bone to pick with you guys. I've purchased several items through you guys and it's been a painless process going through my local FFL for the F4. But this confuses me:



3. Create a system that would do away with transfer fees



Except now there is no transfer fee. Also we file the form 4 while we are waiting on the form 3 approval.

I visited a local FFL (not my normal FFL I usually use) that is listed as a "Powered By" FFL on your site when I click a specific can to purchase. I asked him how this "new" system worked and he stated that there was a transfer fee (which was significantly more than my normal, non-"Powered by" guy). So if a FFL has signed up with you as a "Powered By" dealer, should they not be charging me the transfer fee? Or is it, in the end, still up to them?

Silencer Shop
8 September 2015, 14:56
So first up, I have no bone to pick with you guys. I've purchased several items through you guys and it's been a painless process going through my local FFL for the F4. But this confuses me:
I visited a local FFL (not my normal FFL I usually use) that is listed as a "Powered By" FFL on your site when I click a specific can to purchase. I asked him how this "new" system worked and he stated that there was a transfer fee (which was significantly more than my normal, non-"Powered by" guy). So if a FFL has signed up with you as a "Powered By" dealer, should they not be charging me the transfer fee? Or is it, in the end, still up to them?
Correct he should not be charging you a transfer fee. PM me his name and I will call him. They are under contract with us but if they do charge you for any reason then we will reimburse you.

Dstrbdmedic167
8 September 2015, 15:09
That's good info to know...

DutyUse
8 September 2015, 15:41
Thanks for the all the information and transparency Jeremy. I hope to do business with Silencer shop in the near future so it's reassuring to have someone with intimate knowledge of the process right here on the forum as a resource :)

Former11B
8 September 2015, 17:52
Except now there is no transfer fee. Also we file the form 4 while we are waiting on the form 3 approval.

I have a question about this. I may be wrong since I've only filed one Form 3 only recently which gives me a limited experience in the matter, having dealt solely with Form 4 transfers in the past.

How can the Form 4 be filed if the Form 3 is not yet approved? It seems that anyone filing a Form 4 in advance of the Form 3 being approved runs the risk of trouble if the Form 3 is rejected. They'd then have a pending Form 4 attempting to transfer an item to someone else that's not legally in their possession to transfer. The "Under penalty of perjury..." signature block just for show?

It just seems like it's inviting a potentially serious problem to me.

gatordev
8 September 2015, 17:53
Correct he should not be charging you a transfer fee. PM me his name and I will call him. They are under contract with us but if they do charge you for any reason then we will reimburse you.

PM sent. Thanks!

Former11B
8 September 2015, 18:04
Actually the only change is that now we form 3 to Texas so overall it doesn't really make that big of a difference since a small part of our business is Texas compared to the rest of the nation.

I really meant that as a jab to the ATF; it seems like the slightest thing upends their system

toolboxluis00200
8 September 2015, 18:28
I give youba kidney for a suppressor

Vel
9 September 2015, 05:26
Vel, I'm very sorry that you had this issue. This is not a typical experience with a form 3 or Silencer Shop.

Thanks for the response. I figured it wasn't typical, just would have been nice to be kept in the loop. Felt like one of two scenarios, one you didn't know it was missing until I said something, or two you were hoping I wouldn't notice. $1300 and nothing in hand, I noticed. [BD]

I'm happy we have someone on the inside now that can shed some light on any future issues that hopefully don't come up.

Welcome to Weapon Evolution forum!

six8
9 September 2015, 05:31
I give youba kidney for a suppressor

Bro, bad offer. You could probably get 80 grand for that kidney elsewhere. I hear a good right nut will pull in 40K!

Silencer Shop
9 September 2015, 08:05
I have a question about this. I may be wrong since I've only filed one Form 3 only recently which gives me a limited experience in the matter, having dealt solely with Form 4 transfers in the past.

How can the Form 4 be filed if the Form 3 is not yet approved? It seems that anyone filing a Form 4 in advance of the Form 3 being approved runs the risk of trouble if the Form 3 is rejected. They'd then have a pending Form 4 attempting to transfer an item to someone else that's not legally in their possession to transfer. The "Under penalty of perjury..." signature block just for show?

It just seems like it's inviting a potentially serious problem to me.

By the time the form 4 reaches the examiner the form 3 has already cleared. Most FFL's do this, its fairly common practice.

Silencer Shop
9 September 2015, 08:09
Thanks for the response. I figured it wasn't typical, just would have been nice to be kept in the loop. Felt like one of two scenarios, one you didn't know it was missing until I said something, or two you were hoping I wouldn't notice. $1300 and nothing in hand, I noticed. [BD]

I'm happy we have someone on the inside now that can shed some light on any future issues that hopefully don't come up.

Welcome to Weapon Evolution forum!

I understand completely. With the volume that we do sometimes things happen that is out of our control. What we are working on is better communication with the customer if something does go wrong. We are getting better but not where we want to be on that part. We process about 100-150 silencers a day and with that volume of mail sometimes things go haywire.

toolboxluis00200
9 September 2015, 09:48
Bro, bad offer. You could probably get 80 grand for that kidney elsewhere. I hear a good right nut will pull in 40K!

Remember I have Bad kidneys. So I mite get like $1000.[BD]

six8
9 September 2015, 09:52
Remember I have Bad kidneys. So I mite get like $1000.[BD]
That's enough for a can

toolboxluis00200
9 September 2015, 09:56
Yeap