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View Full Version : Can Cannon ruled NFA item.



Dstrbdmedic167
21 September 2015, 21:35
Just saw this posted from X-Products. It appears the ATF has ruled the Can Cannon upper an SBR if at attached to a rifle lower and a AOW when attached to a pistol. Interesting to see how this plays out... Damn ATF and their determination letters...

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/21/e6b249e03ea8b15f53331a779421bba8.jpg

VIPER 237
21 September 2015, 22:14
Wow... That's bullshit. I really wanted one.

din
21 September 2015, 23:03
I think it's cute that BATFE still considers itself a law enforcement agency.

Mecha_Arms
21 September 2015, 23:26
I knew I should have bought one during the summer.

Lame.

GOST
22 September 2015, 04:01
Wonder what the ATF now considers a soft drink vending machine?[BD]

schambers
22 September 2015, 04:37
Curious to know what happens to people who already own one. Do they have to go through the SBR/AOW registration process or are they grandfathered in? If they are grandfathered in, how do they prove it?

voodoo_man
22 September 2015, 05:29
Thanks ATF.

Killing fun since July 1, 1972

din
22 September 2015, 05:48
Wonder what the ATF now considers a soft drink vending machine?[BD]

WMD.

Tyrannosaur
22 September 2015, 06:19
FUATF

GaSwamper
22 September 2015, 16:07
You have got to be kidding me??

din
22 September 2015, 16:55
Waiting for the reclassification of Nerf guns as destructive devices.

GaSwamper
22 September 2015, 17:05
Waiting for the reclassification of Nerf guns as destructive devices.
There ya go. So if I paint my kids full auto magazine fed under 16" nerf gun black will I be required to register it?

Uffdaphil
22 September 2015, 17:35
So my catapult upper idea is DOA? Free range bureaucrats are scary, joyless vermin. Time to elect some exterminators.

Battle Cock
22 September 2015, 18:03
Why are so many people surprised by this? SBR was my first thought the moment I saw the product. Here is the ATF definition of what constitutes a firearm.


DEFINITION OF "FIREARM": 18 USC § 921(a)(3), (4). Any weapon (including a starter gun) which will expel a projectile by means of an explosive or is designed or may be readily converted to do so. This includes the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any firearm muffler or silencer or any destructive device. A "destructive device" includes any explosive, incendiary or poison gas --- (i)bomb; (ii) grenade or (iii) similar device, or any combination of parts designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device, or from which a destructive device may be readily assembled. Does not include antique firearms.


The can cannon clearly meets the above definition. In my past work experience, I had a ranch boss who was looking into tranquilizer type guns for immunizations and tranquilizing difficult animals. When he realized that they were regulated as firearms because they use blanks to launch the syringe, he pursued other options due to his desire to avoid registration laws in his area.

That seems to be a crystal clear precedent to me. It almost seems like someone skipped the legality research part of their R&D and subsequent marketing.

Computalotapus
22 September 2015, 19:20
You don't want to pistol a can cannon. If you have shot one you know it kicks more than a 12ga shotgun.

Posted with Tapatalk on Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge+

Dstrbdmedic167
22 September 2015, 19:36
That seems to be a crystal clear precedent to me. It almost seems like someone skipped the legality research part of their R&D and subsequent marketing.

They already had a ruling by the ATF prior to production. The ATF changed their minds just like they did on the sig brace.

Battle Cock
22 September 2015, 20:38
They already had a ruling by the ATF prior to production. The ATF changed their minds just like they did on the sig brace.

Is the initial ruling available somewhere? Everything about an AR lower fitted with a can cannon screams firearm to me.

Dstrbdmedic167
22 September 2015, 20:44
Is the initial ruling available somewhere? Everything about an AR lower fitted with a can cannon screams firearm to me.

I haven't seen one personally but they stated they did per their FB page. Trying to find one in the sea of mess now is near impossible...

UWone77
22 September 2015, 20:55
Curious to know what happens to people who already own one. Do they have to go through the SBR/AOW registration process or are they grandfathered in? If they are grandfathered in, how do they prove it?

Since it's just an upper, it's nothing until placed on an lower.

Battle Cock
22 September 2015, 21:05
Since it's just an upper, it's nothing until placed on an lower.

What about the "Once assembled as an NFA item, always will be an NFA item" stuff?

gatordev
23 September 2015, 06:01
What about the "Once assembled as an NFA item, always will be an NFA item" stuff?

For something to be a NFA item, it has to be a firearm. An upper (in this case) isn't a firearm, so it's not a NFA item. Lots of people put "NFA rules apply" when selling short uppers, but the upper itself (again, in the case of an AR) isn't anything other than a hunk of metal.

Battle Cock
23 September 2015, 08:34
For something to be a NFA item, it has to be a firearm. An upper (in this case) isn't a firearm, so it's not a NFA item. Lots of people put "NFA rules apply" when selling short uppers, but the upper itself (again, in the case of an AR) isn't anything other than a hunk of metal.

Of course, but once you put it on a lower, according to the new ruling, you have created an SB(s?) correct? And there a hundreds if not thousands of people who have already done so.

Aberration79
23 September 2015, 13:10
Breaking news. The ATF has redefined an inch. New inches are now equivalent to 3 inferior inches.

gatordev
23 September 2015, 14:32
Of course, but once you put it on a lower, according to the new ruling, you have created an SB(s?) correct? And there a hundreds if not thousands of people who have already done so.

I'm not sure what ruling you're referring to and, admittedly, I really haven't been paying attention to the Can Cannon's story. But generally speaking (and since it's basically an AR upper), and according to the ATF's FAQs, if you have a configurable weapon (like the AR), you can remove and replace a portion of the weapon (upper for an AR) and the weapon and the firearm becomes a Title 1 weapon. Yes, there's constructive possession, and while it exists, I think it's more of an internet bogeyman then anything worth worrying about...kind of like waiting for the random ATF agent to inspect your firearms on the shooting bench. It's possible, but not a common practice.

Rereading the letter on page one, I guess you're referencing the "when placed on a...lower" sentence. Yes, true, but remove the upper, and put a 16" barrel on it, and it's no longer a NFA firearm. It might still be registered as one, but deregistering is voluntary.