Trying to decide on a new scope

[ducrider14]

Hey guys, wanted some input, I'm currently looking to get a scope for this ar15 wanted some opinions, I have been looking at the 1x6 scopes like the vortex hd gen2 but would possibly look at something like the 1x4 night force, or equivalent, I've never had a variable power scope so I don't have any experience with one at all, the gun i will be using it on is a 16" proof research barrel ar15 so I was hoping to reach out a little further than the 450 yards I have been shooting at, I've only had an aimpoint t1, eotech exps2 and a ta-11 acog so this would be the first jump into the scope department for me
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q17/ducrider749S/D46CC943-F604-4A42-9F5E-D4FC8883700D_zpsceawzh1s.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/ducrider749S/media/D46CC943-F604-4A42-9F5E-D4FC8883700D_zpsceawzh1s.jpg.html)

[UWone77]

Obviously, you're no stranger to quality components, but what's your budget?

[ducrider14]

Realistically around 1500,

[UWone77]

If you think you'll honestly shoot a lot of close range 100 yards in as well, I'd consider a 1-6, like the Razor Gen II. 1-4 may meet your needs as well, but probably not as good at 450 yards. If you feel you'll shoot a lot at 450 yards, I'd consider a 2.5-10x32 like the Nightforce or Vortex PST.

Paging JGifford...

[GOST]

Schmidt & Bender Zenith Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 1.1-4x 24mm .15 MIL Flashdot Illuminated FD7 Reticle Matte on sale at Midway for $1589.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/879156/schmidt-and-bender-zenith-rifle-scope-30mm-tube-11-4x-24mm-15-mil-flashdot-illuminated-fd7-reticle-matte?cm_vc=ProductFinding

[DutyUse]

Gost and UW mentioned some great scopes, so i'll just be echoing them...

If it were my $, and I planned on using this rifle for mostly long distance/precision shooting the Trijicon Accupoint 2.5-12.5x42 would be my pick
Link (https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=TR26-C-200104)

And if was shooting a blend, with some long range mixed in the Trijicon Accupoint 1-6x24 would be high on the list
Link (https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=TR25-C-200095)

[ducrider14]

My local range here has steel targets set up at 450 yards, so as of now that's as far as I shoot, maybe I will look into the 2.5x10, had not thought of those before, but it might be a better fit, most the time I will be shooting the other ar's that I have so this one won't get as many rounds through it, it's was kind of my 40th birthday present to myself. That Schmidt and bender is pretty nice though, On top of the scope I e got to figure out the whole mil/moa ffp/sfp stuff also

[Slippers]

Unless the reticle is designed well, a front focal plane scope in the 1-4/1-6 and even 2.5-10 range doesn't work well. I have owned the vortex 2.5-10x32 ffp and the reticle is very tiny at 2.5x, especially the mil version.

Some people aren't bothered by it, or use it so little at 2.5 it doesn't matter. I'm partial to the NF 2.5-10 because it's SFP, but I also like to shoot it at 2.5.

[gatordev]

Unless the reticle is designed well, a front focal plane scope in the 1-4/1-6 and even 2.5-10 range doesn't work well. I have owned the vortex 2.5-10x32 ffp and the reticle is very tiny at 2.5x, especially the mil version.


Personally, I don't agree with this, but I think it really comes down to how you shoot your rifle. Not that there's a right or wrong way, just "your" way. I find having a FFP 2.5-10 is very useful. Numerous times I've found it very nice to have less than max mag (let's say ~5x) and still have a reticule that is giving me accurate information at intermediate distances without having to spin a turret AND have accurate holds for wind. That's not to say I don't also sit at max mag other times when shooting, which would render FFP unnecessary.

I've also found that, during some shooting situations (but certainly not all), people struggle with having too much mag, even very good shooters. At the end of the day, if you're just shooting out to 450 from a bench plinking away, then a SFP will work great, but identifying how you want to use it will drive the solution.

[ducrider14]

Yes, a lot to think about, I really need to go find some of these and look through them, and decide what I really want to do with this rifle,

[Slippers]

At least quote my whole post, where I basically say it's personal preference. :)

Edit: I also didn't say it wasn't useful, or that the reticle is too small at 5x. I said it's too small at 2.5x (for me).

[alamo5000]

I'm going to be a little bit contrarian here. On other fronts I will agree with various aspects of several posts here.

My regular shooting spot has plates hanging out really far. I've taken my AR out to 800 yards which I can hit fairly reliably. Of course when you have 15 mph wind gusts it makes it more complicated.

I am shooting with a vortex 1-4 PST. I don't know. Maybe I'm just an oddball.

For me 400 yards and in is easy. The real wild card is going to be ammo. With off the shelf ammo 400 yards is readily doable on a full size silhouette. The thing is even with good home rolled ammo you can only expect a certain level of precision out farther like that. I've shot probably almost a case of various ammo and 4 to 500 yards is about what you're gonna get. With home rolled ammo I've been able to go a lot farther.

Long story short its going to depend on what kind of shooting you want to do, but I personally think where a 2.5-10 would shine is 300 yards and in. That is primarily because of the platform. But just putting lead on target it all depends. If you are going to be a bipod shooter or off a rest then that's one thing. If that's not your thing then that can alter choices.

Are you primarily going to shoot long range? Are you going to mix it up some? If you want an all around optic that's one thing. If you want one that will excel in one area or the other that's something different.

I am of the school that at 400 yards you can hit with almost anything decent. The real trick is figuring out what kind of mixture you want between short and long range. Do you want an illuminated bdc or do you want an moa or mil based system? All these other functions are going to matter more overall. So far for an AR a good 1-4 or 1-6 is plenty enough in my opinion. If you have a precision rig and want to shoot groups at 100 yards then get the 2.5-10.

[JGifford]

$1500 is no-mans-land.

It's a bit more than quality top-end 1-4's run, but not quite enough for the top end 1-6's.

I played with the VCOG. I now have a Nightforce 1-4 FC-2 with PTL headed my way. I hated the VCOG, but the two NF 1-4's I have looked through were awesome!

My vote goes toward the 1-4 NXS for a 1-4, and to the Kahles K16i, K15i, or Z6i for a 1-5/6.

The Vortex Razor is almost a full 3/4 pound heavier.

The Steiner scopes have gotten rave reviews lately, as well. I just have not looked at them. The Vortex Razor HD was 90% of the scope the Kahles K16i was that I looked through, for 60% of the price, but had 140% of the weight...

[ducrider14]

I'm going to be a little bit contrarian here. On other fronts I will agree with various aspects of several posts here.

My regular shooting spot has plates hanging out really far. I've taken my AR out to 800 yards which I can hit fairly reliably. Of course when you have 15 mph wind gusts it makes it more complicated.

I am shooting with a vortex 1-4 PST. I don't know. Maybe I'm just an oddball.

For me 400 yards and in is easy. The real wild card is going to be ammo. With off the shelf ammo 400 yards is readily doable on a full size silhouette. The thing is even with good home rolled ammo you can only expect a certain level of precision out farther like that. I've shot probably almost a case of various ammo and 4 to 500 yards is about what you're gonna get. With home rolled ammo I've been able to go a lot farther.

Long story short its going to depend on what kind of shooting you want to do, but I personally think where a 2.5-10 would shine is 300 yards and in. That is primarily because of the platform. But just putting lead on target it all depends. If you are going to be a bipod shooter or off a rest then that's one thing. If that's not your thing then that can alter choices.

Are you primarily going to shoot long range? Are you going to mix it up some? If you want an all around optic that's one thing. If you want one that will excel in one area or the other that's something different.

I am of the school that at 400 yards you can hit with almost anything decent. The real trick is figuring out what kind of mixture you want between short and long range. Do you want an illuminated bdc or do you want an moa or mil based system? All these other functions are going to matter more overall. So far for an AR a good 1-4 or 1-6 is plenty enough in my opinion. If you have a precision rig and want to shoot groups at 100 yards then get the 2.5-10.
yes, 400 is no problem with the trijicon or the red dots i have, that is the question, what do i really want to do with this rifle

[ducrider14]

$1500 is no-mans-land.

It's a bit more than quality top-end 1-4's run, but not quite enough for the top end 1-6's.

I played with the VCOG. I now have a Nightforce 1-4 FC-2 with PTL headed my way. I hated the VCOG, but the two NF 1-4's I have looked through were awesome!

My vote goes toward the 1-4 NXS for a 1-4, and to the Kahles K16i, K15i, or Z6i for a 1-5/6.

The Vortex Razor is almost a full 3/4 pound heavier.

The Steiner scopes have gotten rave reviews lately, as well. I just have not looked at them. The Vortex Razor HD was 90% of the scope the Kahles K16i was that I looked through, for 60% of the price, but had 140% of the weight...
I understand the price i am in is kind of right between, trying to figure out if I want to spend a little more for better glass or not, my problem is i wont sell other guns to get good glass and it takes awhile to save up some money sometimes as I have four kids, age 12, 9, 5, and 3, so family comes first, then the other stuff, right now its soccer season so we have soccer 7 days a week, not much time for anything else. . Ive never been a huge fan of the trijicon reticles so really havnt look at them much anyway, but I do like the nightforce scopes

[DeviantLogic]

Are you comfortable banging steel @ 450 yards with your 3.5x ACOG? To use as a comparison, that's about what you'll be getting out of a 1-4x scope, and a 1-6x will be a little better.

Be sure that whatever scope you get, the reticle and the knobs match (ie MOA reticle & MOA adjustments, or MIL reticle & MIL adjustments). I agree with Slippers that with a low-med magnification scope, FFP probably doesn't provide many benefits and may be a negative. For med-high magnification, that's all I'd use though.

The NightForce 2.5-10 would be on my short list. I also like the Leupold 3-9 VX-R Patrol and Trijicon AccuPower 3-9 as a less expensive options.

**Edited** Apparently I'm a slow typer and didn't see the last few posts. If you plan on spending $1,500, I'd do the NF 2.5-10...if you spend more you'll get more options. I'd personally recommend just setting money aside until you figure out exactly what you want.

[alamo5000]

yes, 400 is no problem with the trijicon or the red dots i have, that is the question, what do i really want to do with this rifle


That just means you have to go full WEVO and spend all your money on more gun stuff :)

Really though deciding is the hard part. What do you want that thing to do is the hard part. Maybe you can look to your other guns and build one based on that.

For example if I could afford to buy all the stuff I would have three or four ARs all with different intents. An SBR with a 1x. A 14.5 with a 1-4. A precision rig with a 2.5-10...

All of them would have different purposes.

My gut tells me that you will like a 1-6. Before I spent all that money though I would get a cheap optic that you can sell later. I bought the Bushnell 1-4 to see what I like and don't like before I stepped up and spent a little more money. Most importantly it helped me learn and decide what I like. If you could get a 1-4 and a 1-6 then you can compare.

[ducrider14]

Are you comfortable banging steel @ 450 yards with your 3.5x ACOG? To use as a comparison, that's about what you'll be getting out of a 1-4x scope, and a 1-6x will be a little better.

Be sure that whatever scope you get, the reticle and the knobs match (ie MOA reticle & MOA adjustments, or MIL reticle & MIL adjustments). I agree with Slippers that with a low-med magnification scope, FFP probably doesn't provide many benefits and may be a negative. For med-high magnification, that's all I'd use though.

The NightForce 2.5-10 would be on my short list. I also like the Leupold 3-9 VX-R Patrol and Trijicon AccuPower 3-9 as a less expensive options.
yeah, no problem at all on the steel at 450 with the acog, I might really check out the nightforce 2.5x10 and maybe look at the nightforce 1x4 also, at the moment really thinking this gun is gonna be used mostly for 100 out to 600 meters.

[ducrider14]

thats a good idea on the cheap ones so i can figure out what I like, as I said Im a newbie to scopes, and actually only got into shooting about five years ago, right now I have a 10.5 noveske sbr that has a aimpoint t1 on it, got a rainier arms 14.5 I built with an eotech, and a daniel defense m4v5 with the acog, so maybe this will be my precision rig for now until I biuld an spr

[alamo5000]

Be sure that whatever scope you get, the reticle and the knobs match (ie MOA reticle & MOA adjustments, or MIL reticle & MIL adjustments). I agree with Slippers that with a low-med magnification scope, FFP probably doesn't provide many benefits and may be a negative. For med-high magnification, that's all I'd use though.

I definitely would stay away from FFP on short scopes, ie 1-4/1-6...

[ducrider14]

somehow I erased a post and didnt mean to but wanted to reply to it about trying different cheap scopes
thats a good idea on the cheap ones so i can figure out what I like, as I said Im a newbie to scopes, and actually only got into shooting about five years ago, right now I have a 10.5 noveske sbr that has a aimpoint t1 on it, got a rainier arms I built with an eotech, and a danile defense m4v5 with the acog, so maybe this will be my precision rig for now until I biuld an spr

[DeviantLogic]

I'd also fully recommend using a QD base so that you can use the optics on more than one rifle. If I shell out a couple grand on glass, I'd want to be able to use it on a few different rifles.

[ducrider14]

as of now they all have larue mounts, but in the future will look at bobro

[alamo5000]

somehow I erased a post and didnt mean to but wanted to reply to it about trying different cheap scopes
thats a good idea on the cheap ones so i can figure out what I like, as I said Im a newbie to scopes, and actually only got into shooting about five years ago, right now I have a 10.5 noveske sbr that has a aimpoint t1 on it, got a rainier arms I built with an eotech, and a danile defense m4v5 with the acog, so maybe this will be my precision rig for now until I biuld an spr

15 minutes of using is worth 2 weeks of talking. So yes, if you can hunt down some used scopes that are fairly cheap then you can try different stuff without taking out a second mortgage. Once you get a feel for what direction to go then get something quality.

[ducrider14]

As of now this is my small humble collection, I work construction for my dad, it's not the best pay but the schedule is great, all the bills and kids get taken care of them all the rest of my extra goes to guns, I'd rather buy an ar par my than clothes, drives my wife crazy
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q17/ducrider749S/243F5FDE-9A5F-43C6-91EA-306FF8B337F1_zpsppwbvtlh.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/ducrider749S/media/243F5FDE-9A5F-43C6-91EA-306FF8B337F1_zpsppwbvtlh.jpg.html)

[ducrider14]

thanks for all the info, obviously lots of different opinions, definitely lots of stuff to think about, probably the reason i haven't made the switch yet

[DutyUse]

As of now this is my small humble collection, I work construction for my dad, it's not the best pay but the schedule is great, all the bills and kids get taken care of them all the rest of my extra goes to guns, I'd rather buy an ar par my than clothes, drives my wife crazy
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q17/ducrider749S/243F5FDE-9A5F-43C6-91EA-306FF8B337F1_zpsppwbvtlh.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/ducrider749S/media/243F5FDE-9A5F-43C6-91EA-306FF8B337F1_zpsppwbvtlh.jpg.html)


Wow very nice collection! You have great taste in gear :D

I'd love to see some close up photos of your individual rifles if you get a chance. Photo Gallery (http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?4695-Just-AR-s-Gallery/page46)

[BoilerUp]

Looks like you've got the short ranges covered. Get some glass that let's you stretch your legs and/or squeeze your groups in nice and tight.

[JGifford]

I'd also fully recommend using a QD base so that you can use the optics on more than one rifle. If I shell out a couple grand on glass, I'd want to be able to use it on a few different rifles.

Using a nightforce unimount or kac, and a torque wrench produces very very very good rtz, involves less weight, and is a more stable attachment method imo

[JGifford]

15 minutes of using is worth 2 weeks of talking. So yes, if you can hunt down some used scopes that are fairly cheap then you can try different stuff without taking out a second mortgage. Once you get a feel for what direction to go then get something quality.

That kind of queers the deal though. It's like telling someone to drive a Porsche 944 and a Ferrari Testarossa so they can decide on whether or not they want the new gt3 or an f458. It's just that the quality and results vary so much from a cheap 1-4 to a quality 1-4 that it renders the trial moot.

[gatordev]

At least quote my whole post, where I basically say it's personal preference. :)

Edit: I also didn't say it wasn't useful, or that the reticle is too small at 5x. I said it's too small at 2.5x (for me).

Sorry, at the end of the day, I guess we're saying the same thing. I know you have mentioned in the past of not finding value in a FFP 2.5-10 (for you), so I may have also been replying to that a bit. For the record, I find 2.5 to be way too small to use the reticule as well, but I also can't think of a reason why I would be at that low of a mag and also be engaging far enough out where I would need the reticule. For me, I'd just spin in the dope for a 300m zero and use Point Blank Range, otherwise I'd up the mag to 4 or 5 and start using the reticule.

But as we're both saying, it's all going to depend on how one wants to use their weapon.

[Former11B]

yeah, no problem at all on the steel at 450 with the acog, I might really check out the nightforce 2.5x10 and maybe look at the nightforce 1x4 also, at the moment really thinking this gun is gonna be used mostly for 100 out to 600 meters.

If you're planning on shooting 0-600, I'd say the 2.5-10x32 would be a great choice. I'm partial to that magnification range anyhow, and I also have a 3.5x TA11-J ACOG. Going from essentially a fixed 4 power to a 1-6x is going to be a very small improvement, one that is not worth the investment, IMO.

I will echo Slipper's statement that the 2.5-10x32 FFP reticle on the Vortex is very thin (recently got one), so if that's not suitable for you, maybe the 2.5-10x NightForce is the better choice, however, I'm not sure if the reticle on the NF is going to be noticeably thicker. This is when kicking the tires in a local shop that carries quality gear pays off.

[alamo5000]

That kind of queers the deal though. It's like telling someone to drive a Porsche 944 and a Ferrari Testarossa so they can decide on whether or not they want the new gt3 or an f458. It's just that the quality and results vary so much from a cheap 1-4 to a quality 1-4 that it renders the trial moot.

Yes of course they will be different in many ways but for the price of one night force he can get two vortex and have money left over. Which at this stage could be a potential shorter term fix. All I'm saying is to get some sort of experience in the optic categories he's looking at so he can form his own opinion. In the mean time there can be a lot of great shooting going on. At least for me using a middle of the road optic does not depreciate my value for higher end stuff. In fact for me it has enhanced it. Not all that long ago I was in his same boat to some degree, but now if I walk into a gun shop and kick the tires of some high dollar stuff it means more to me now than it did then.

It's not a fix all. Just one person's opinion.

[ducrider14]

think I might try to find some 2.5x 10 scopes to look through, that might be the scope for this one, just gotta find a place that has a few in stock, probably gonna make my way up to cabelas in the next week or two. I would like to stretch this one out a little more. there are so many variables and preferences that this might take a bit of time, i have a friend that can get me good deals on leupold so I might check them out along with nightforce and steiner and a couple others that are somewhat similar price wise

[JGifford]

think I might try to find some 2.5x 10 scopes to look through, that might be the scope for this one, just gotta find a place that has a few in stock, probably gonna make my way up to cabelas in the next week or two. I would like to stretch this one out a little more. there are so many variables and preferences that this might take a bit of time, i have a friend that can get me good deals on leupold so I might check them out along with nightforce and steiner and a couple others that are somewhat similar price wise

Steiner's 1-4X is currently a stoopid good deal at $699.

[Former11B]

Steiner's 1-4X is currently a stoopid good deal at $699.

I just don't see the benefit of going from a 3.5x ACOG (amazingly clear glass...at least mine is, as well as extremely precise) to a variable power optics with nearly the same maximum power setting. Unless you're just putting this out there as a general recommendation to anyone in the market. In which case, my apologies.

[alamo5000]

My opinion is no matter what you get you're going to want something new eventually ;)

For me I started out with one set of tastes but my pallet has developed more over time.

Getting the right product match up to your individual needs and wants takes time and often you might discover things you thought you liked but don't or vice versa.

[DeviantLogic]

Using a nightforce unimount or kac, and a torque wrench produces very very very good rtz, involves less weight, and is a more stable attachment method imo

I agree, and that's why I run the NF mounts on my bolt guns...but I also don't swap them around but once in a blue moon, maybe cause I don't keep a torque wrench in my range bag. The Larue QD mounts have a pretty darn good return to zero in my opinion, and they get taken on/off on a pretty regular basis...couple times a month at least.

Speaking of torque wrenches...been thinking of getting a couple of these guys to take along in my range bag...fix it sticks torque limiters (http://store.fixitsticks.com/c/shooting-hunting_torque-limiters). New product I read about on sniper's hide (http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/story/1559028-sniper-s-hide-reviews-fix-it-sticks).

[ducrider14]

I just don't see the benefit of going from a 3.5x ACOG (amazingly clear glass...at least mine is, as well as extremely precise) to a variable power optics with nearly the same maximum power setting. Unless you're just putting this out there as a general recommendation to anyone in the market. In which case, my apologies.
That's what I am thinking, I'm gonna go higher magnification, it's not worth going to a 1x4 from the acog, I love the acog, no batteries, and indestructible, but will go 2.5x10 on the scope

[BoilerUp]

Speaking of torque wrenches...been thinking of getting a couple of these guys to take along in my range bag...fix it sticks torque limiters (http://store.fixitsticks.com/c/shooting-hunting_torque-limiters). New product I read about on sniper's hide (http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/story/1559028-sniper-s-hide-reviews-fix-it-sticks).

Cheaper and more versatile to just pick up one of these: http://www.amazon.com/PERFORMANCE-TORQUE-WRENCH-POUNDS-M195/dp/B00SNICDJC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1445562718&sr=8-1&keywords=1%2F4+inch+beam+torque+wrench

[SINNER]

Not a fan of beam type torque Wrenches especially when measuring in inch/lbs. I would go with a torque driver style.


High end.

https://store.snapon.com/Adjustable-Torque-Drivers-1-4-drive--Screwdriver-Torque-Adjustable-5-to-40-in-lb-56-451-N-149-cm-1-4-drive-P744932.aspx

Budget but very functional.

http://www.btibrands.com/product/fat-wrench-with-10-bit-set/?mobile=true

[BoilerUp]

Not a fan of beam type torque Wrenches especially when measuring in inch/lbs. I would go with a torque driver style.

Interesting. Why? I'm the opposite. Beam style wrenches give you a continuous readout, pretty much never loose calibration (and are simple to re-calibrate), don't have to be re-set back to 0 for storage, have essentially no moving parts to break, and to top it all off they are cheaper. If I worked with the tools professionally in a shop that calibrated them on a regular basis, I'm sure I'd prefer the driver style, but for a DIY-er on a budget I think beam-style is the better option.

[ducrider14]

So what are everyone's preferences, ffp/sfp? Looks like most 2.5x10's are second, and is it hard to get used to, usually I just use my acog and use the bdc, it's pretty simple, not much to mess up, but I don't want to get the wrong scope and try to figure out holdovers and hate it after spending a couple grand, like I said I really appreciate the help and information, no one has really taught me any of this, I just kind of got into firearms a few years ago by myself
Josh

[DeviantLogic]

Cheaper and more versatile to just pick up one of these: http://www.amazon.com/PERFORMANCE-TORQUE-WRENCH-POUNDS-M195/dp/B00SNICDJC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1445562718&sr=8-1&keywords=1%2F4+inch+beam+torque+wrench

Yeah...I'm not going to lug a torque wrench like that in my range bag anytime soon. I've got torque wrenches, but normally use a wheeler fat wrench (screwdriver type) for torquing the cross bolts. I was looking at the fix-it stick torque limiters and the borka torque drivers as an option to carry in the range bag. Lightweight and don't take up much space.

[DeviantLogic]

So what are everyone's preferences, ffp/sfp? Looks like most 2.5x10's are second, and is it hard to get used to, usually I just use my acog and use the bdc, it's pretty simple, not much to mess up, but I don't want to get the wrong scope and try to figure out holdovers and hate it after spending a couple grand, like I said I really appreciate the help and information, no one has really taught me any of this, I just kind of got into firearms a few years ago by myself
Josh

Might want to check out this explanation on the differences between first focal plane and second focal plane scopes: http://www.primalrights.com/articles/rifle-sighting-systems-part-3-sfp-vs-ffp.

I honestly prefer a first focal plane scope. No math for adjustments...what you see in the glass is what you dial on the turrets. It makes for (mostly) accurate distance estimations without a rangefinder. The problem is that the benefits you get with a FFP are largely diminished when you get into lower magnifications. At lower magnifications, the reticle gets smaller, the lines appear thinner, and it becomes difficult to see tick marks. Where this trade off occurs kind of depends on the shooter's eyes and the glass. Regardless, first focal plane scopes really shine with higher magnifications.

[Former11B]

So what are everyone's preferences, ffp/sfp? Looks like most 2.5x10's are second, and is it hard to get used to, usually I just use my acog and use the bdc, it's pretty simple, not much to mess up, but I don't want to get the wrong scope and try to figure out holdovers and hate it after spending a couple grand, like I said I really appreciate the help and information, no one has really taught me any of this, I just kind of got into firearms a few years ago by myself
Josh

I know you have a budget of $1500 or so, but I posted a "budget" option of a Vortex scope on sale. It's the HS-LR 2.5-10x32 FFP...basically the PST version without illuminated reticle and exposed tactical turrets for $399.

http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/sportsmans/Vortex-Viper-HS-LR-Rifle-Scope/productDetail/Rifle-Scopes/prod999901368006/cat100738

[alamo5000]

Might want to check out this explanation on the differences between first focal plane and second focal plane scopes: http://www.primalrights.com/articles/rifle-sighting-systems-part-3-sfp-vs-ffp.

I honestly prefer a first focal plane scope. No math for adjustments...what you see in the glass is what you dial on the turrets. It makes for (mostly) accurate distance estimations without a rangefinder. The problem is that the benefits you get with a FFP are largely diminished when you get into lower magnifications. At lower magnifications, the reticle gets smaller, the lines appear thinner, and it becomes difficult to see tick marks. Where this trade off occurs kind of depends on the shooter's eyes and the glass. Regardless, first focal plane scopes really shine with higher magnifications.


^^^Yup. This. I feel the same way. FFP is great is you use higher magnification. For example roughly 4x on up on some of the scopes I've tried.

[JGifford]

Might want to check out this explanation on the differences between first focal plane and second focal plane scopes: http://www.primalrights.com/articles/rifle-sighting-systems-part-3-sfp-vs-ffp.

I honestly prefer a first focal plane scope. No math for adjustments...what you see in the glass is what you dial on the turrets. Same with a SFP scope...why dial dope at less than max magnification? It makes for (mostly) accurate distance estimations without a rangefinder. See previous red. The problem is that the benefits you get with a FFP are largely diminished when you get into lower magnifications. Yep. For a 10X or greater optic, I could see FFP, but anything lower? No. At lower magnifications, the reticle gets smaller, the lines appear thinner, and it becomes difficult to see tick marks. Where this trade off occurs kind of depends on the shooter's eyes and the glass. Regardless, first focal plane scopes really shine with higher magnifications.
I agree, 1-6 or 1-8 or 1-4 is a poor place for FFP. 5-15, etc. is where I'd consider FFP.

*My comments about dope/range only at max is applicable for 1-X variables. There is no sense shooting 400+ yards with a 1-6X variable with the mag set at 3.5X.

[ducrider14]

think im gonna try to look at a few 2.5x10 ffp scopes, gonna have to make a trip up to cabelas here soon as no one here has anything

[Bronco75]

I like to cheat when at all possible because I will admit I suck at math.

I have a KAC SR-15 LPR and I run a Nightforce 2.5-10x42 compact with the Velocity 600 reticle.

You must be consistent with your ammo and know what your rifle likes going in...but I am using a 77gr round and this reticle choice works perfectly for me.

If I was looking to shoot groups...I may make a different choice...but for steel this works great all day long...almost boring...almost.

Nightforce has a calculator on their site to run your ammo and see if this would be a good choice for you.

Here is the info on the reticle:

http://nightforceoptics.com/pdf/Velocity600.pdf

[Bronco75]

This Leupold Mark 4 is also a nice option for the money IMHO....

https://www.leupold.com/hunting-shooting/scopes/mark-4-lrt-riflescopes/mark-4-lrt-3-5-10x40mm-30mm-m3/