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Deadwing
1 November 2015, 01:05
I purchased 500 rounds of Remington UMC subsonic 220gr 300BLK ammo to get me started while i get my reloading equipment set up and work on some loads of my own. I've read mostly good things about this ammo. I have shot tons of UMC ammo in other calibers, and I've never had a problem with any of it. So, i was a bit surprised to see this when i opened the first box of UMC 300BLK:

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l145/Deadwing76/AD74388C-0FA4-4501-B00B-B8CBEFB07D78_zpspaziqfjb.png (http://s95.photobucket.com/user/Deadwing76/media/AD74388C-0FA4-4501-B00B-B8CBEFB07D78_zpspaziqfjb.png.html)

Every bullet in every box i've opened so far has that same blemish near the tip of the bullet. The blemish is identical on every bullet. It can just barely be felt as i run my fingernail over it, so it's not very deep. I'm sure it'll function just fine, but it makes me wonder about the overall quality. And that makes me just a bit nervous about sending this ammo through my new Saker 762. Even though that blemish will probably only affect long range accuracy, i can't help but think "baffle strike waiting to happen".

Have any of you purchased any of this ammo recently and encountered the same blemish? If so, have you shot it yet, and how does it perform?

toolboxluis00200
1 November 2015, 02:25
Have u try contacting Remington about it??

Deadwing
1 November 2015, 02:28
Not yet, since it's the weekend and all. I'll shoot them an email monday. I'm more or less curious about what experiences others have had with this ammo recently.

titanse05
1 November 2015, 09:06
The reviews that I've seen with this stuff is that it goes supersonic intermittently, primers fall out and accuracy is suspect. I have no personal experience with it however.

I was going to avoid it and go with Gemtech's 187gr Subsonic offering with my first batch of 300BLK.

Deadwing
1 November 2015, 09:31
I read the same regarding primers and going supersonic. IIRC, the supersonic issues primarily occurred in longer barrels, such as 16". Shorter barrels didn't seem to have the issue. Can't remember what the deal was with primers, but it mustn't have applied to my situation or been too big of a deal since I decided to buy the ammo anyway. Accuracy wise, from what I read it was accetable inside 150 or 200 yards. But, groups really opened up quickly much beyond that, which I fine by me given the nature of this load and what I plan to use it for.

Thanks for the suggestion on the Gemtech stuff. I'll check it out.

Deadwing
2 December 2015, 01:46
Since contacting Remington, the only reply i got from them was the typical "Thank you for contacting us. We're sorry to hear you have a problem with our product" with no useful information. So, i sent an email to Silencerco asking for their opinion. Silencerco replied quite fast and were far more helpful then Remington. Silencerco's response was that as long as the bullets aren't key holing, then it should be fine to use with the Saker 762. They further stated that even if i should have a problem with the ammo that results in a baffle and/or end cap strike, that i'm covered by their lifetime warranty and that they'd take care of me. Talk about phenomenal customer service.

At any rate, i did a quick and dirty zero of my rifle using this ammo unsuppressed a few weeks ago and found it had fairly open groups (4" or so) at 50 yards. Not great, but the bullets were stabilized when they hit the target and none key holed. So with an itchy trigger finger and Silencerco's email as a confidence booster, i went out to the mountains with a buddy today and shot about 100 rounds of the UMC ammo suppressed. All of it functioned 100%, no failures or malfunctions of any kind, and none went supersonic as had been reported in some of the reviews i read. It is dirty as hell, though. Accuracy is the same as without the can, and is good for plinking 8" steel at 25-50 yards. I'll shoot what i've got left, but won't likely be buying any more.

titanse05
2 December 2015, 05:16
Thanks for the update. I won't be buying any of this stuff either as it seems to be pretty common with this stuff. I'll be buying some of the Gemtech 187s this month and will report on it. Although, I don't expect anything negative.

Deadwing
2 December 2015, 06:23
I looked at the Gemtech 187gr subs, and almost bought some to try. But then i discovered that Silencerco has their Harvester ammo on sale for $19.95/box. I purchased some of the 220gr SMKs and the 208gr A-Max. Both function flawlessly and group extremely well. Another reason i didn't jump in on the Gemtech is that there aren't many details on the projectile, other than it's polymer tipped and weighs 187gr. Sierra Match Kings and Hornady A-Max projectiles are a known quantity. I may still get some to try if i can find any locally. Shipping for a few boxes costs just about half of what it'd cost to ship a whole case, which is ridiculous.

titanse05
2 December 2015, 07:05
I'm buying this first batch for plinking and for the brass for reloading so not knowing everything about the projectile doesn't bother me. If I was going for uber accuarcy I'd go with the Silencerco offerings no doubt.

AIMSURPLUS has a good price on the Gemtech 187gr Subs and for me works out to $431.47 shipped for a 500 round case ($0.86/round)

SINNER
2 December 2015, 07:42
It's far from cheap but for off the shelf sub sonics the Hornady 208gr AMax is by far the most accurate and consistent I have shot. I was not impressed with the Gemtech for accuracy although it is very quiet.

I have 400 rounds of the SilencerCo ammo on its way now I am looking forward to trying out.

I have had poor luck with the Remington subs. About 25% went supersonic out of a 16" barrel. Groups were horrible from every rifle I tried them in. The shorter barrels were much better for staying below supersonic though.

gatordev
2 December 2015, 13:00
I managed to score some Hornady 208gr at $.65/round from PSA last week. Isn't my choice for a HD round, but to run some rounds through a new gun with subs, I couldn't resist.

titanse05
2 December 2015, 16:21
I managed to score some Hornady 208gr at $.65/round from PSA last week. Isn't my choice for a HD round, but to run some rounds through a new gun with subs, I couldn't resist.Dang I missed out on any 300BLK related deals as I was too busy buying components for my wife's 223 build.

Deadwing
2 December 2015, 23:19
I'm buying this first batch for plinking and for the brass for reloading so not knowing everything about the projectile doesn't bother me. If I was going for uber accuarcy I'd go with the Silencerco offerings no doubt.

AIMSURPLUS has a good price on the Gemtech 187gr Subs and for me works out to $431.47 shipped for a 500 round case ($0.86/round)

I bought a bunch of brand new Federal 300BLK brass on sale from Midway a while back. I think it worked out to $0.21/piece. This Remington UMC will be good for plinking, and the brass is nice. So i don't feel too bad about it. I'm sure the Gemtech stuff will be fine if all you want to do is plink and reload the brass.


It's far from cheap but for off the shelf sub sonics the Hornady 208gr AMax is by far the most accurate and consistent I have shot. I was not impressed with the Gemtech for accuracy although it is very quiet.

I have 400 rounds of the SilencerCo ammo on its way now I am looking forward to trying out.

I have had poor luck with the Remington subs. About 25% went supersonic out of a 16" barrel. Groups were horrible from every rifle I tried them in. The shorter barrels were much better for staying below supersonic though.

I've found the Silencerco ammo to be very good stuff. It's super quiet with the can and accuracy is much improved over the UMC. Luckily, my 300BLK barrels are short. Hopefully that'll keep the UMC stuff from going supersonic.


I managed to score some Hornady 208gr at $.65/round from PSA last week. Isn't my choice for a HD round, but to run some rounds through a new gun with subs, I couldn't resist.

Dang, that is a score! The question is, will they ever ship it out? [BD] As for a HD round, I've got some Barnes TAC-TX 110gr bullets i need to load. I need to do some research and find a good projectile to use for a subsonic HD round.

gatordev
3 December 2015, 03:59
Dang, that is a score! The question is, will they ever ship it out? [BD] As for a HD round, I've got some Barnes TAC-TX 110gr bullets i need to load. I need to do some research and find a good projectile to use for a subsonic HD round.

It's sitting in my "ammo closet." They actually shipped very fast this time (I think on Black Friday). The whole reason for my .300 BO experiment was to build up a rifle that won't cause me significant permanent hearing loss if I ever had to shoot it indoors (so, sub-sonic), wouldn't shoot a round that would go whizzing through things and hit something outside the house, and is very effective at internal ballistics. I really don't plan to shoot the gun much, but instead have it ready to go if there's ever a bump in the night (though hopefully not). Or if someone ever invites on a pig hunt!

Based off of what I've read (in part thanks to Swissy Jim) and have seen on videos online, Lehigh Defense's 194 ME was the answer. The Hornady stuff is repeatedly reported as a very accurate round, but just keeps going through flesh. The Lehigh destroys its target but pretty much falls apart and just becomes shrapnel by the time it's hitting the second dry wall.

The Lehigh stuff should be here today (got some on sale on BF, as well), so I'm hoping I can zero the gun with that stuff and call it good.

Joelski
3 December 2015, 04:08
I bought a bunch of brand new Federal 300BLK brass on sale from Midway a while back. I think it worked out to $0.21/piece. This Remington UMC will be good for plinking, and the brass is nice. So i don't feel too bad about it. I'm sure the Gemtech stuff will be fine if all you want to do is plink and reload the brass.



I've found the Silencerco ammo to be very good stuff. It's super quiet with the can and accuracy is much improved over the UMC. Luckily, my 300BLK barrels are short. Hopefully that'll keep the UMC stuff from going supersonic.



Dang, that is a score! The question is, will they ever ship it out? [BD]

Right???

I scored an Aimpoint Pro H1 for $399 in that same sale and it's still "processing"...

I figure they're processing how to retract that deal and not pay back my money.

Deadwing
3 December 2015, 04:13
It's sitting in my "ammo closet." They actually shipped very fast this time (I think on Black Friday). The whole reason for my .300 BO experiment was to build up a rifle that won't cause me significant permanent hearing loss if I ever had to shoot it indoors (so, sub-sonic), wouldn't shoot a round that would go whizzing through things and hit something outside the house, and is very effective at internal ballistics. I really don't plan to shoot the gun much, but instead have it ready to go if there's ever a bump in the night (though hopefully not). Or if someone ever invites on a pig hunt!

Based off of what I've read (in part thanks to Swissy Jim) and have seen on videos online, Lehigh Defense's 194 ME was the answer. The Hornady stuff is repeatedly reported as a very accurate round, but just keeps going through flesh. The Lehigh destroys its target but pretty much falls apart and just becomes shrapnel by the time it's hitting the second dry wall.

The Lehigh stuff should be here today (got some on sale on BF, as well), so I'm hoping I can zero the gun with that stuff and call it good.

That's awesome information. Thank you. I've read nothing but good things about the performance Lehigh Defense projectiles. What length barrel does your rifle have?

Deadwing
3 December 2015, 04:28
Right???

I scored an Aimpoint Pro H1 for $399 in that same sale and it's still "processing"...

I figure they're processing how to retract that deal and not pay back my money.

I grabbed an H1 from PSA in that sale also. No movement on my order either. The last time i ordered something from PSA it took almost two weeks for them to ship it, and it was just a lower parts kit or something like that. So, i try and avoid buying from PSA. But $399 for an Aimpoint Micro was too good to pass up. And if they are "processing" a way to retract and not refund, dispute the charge and let the bank sort it out. [BD] What i bet they're really processing is how they're going to explain that sale to Aimpoint. At $399, they had to have been selling them at a loss.

Joelski
3 December 2015, 05:07
Right, no way that's MAP, or there'd be hell to pay!

DutyUse
3 December 2015, 05:20
I really wish I had picked up one of those H1's but it wasnt in the cards. Nice score fellas, probably the best deal I saw during BF

Mecha_Arms
3 December 2015, 06:50
I haven't tried it yet, but Cabelas has the Sig 220 Gr 300 BLK ammo on sale, if you're looking for another alternative to the Remington.

http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=1977233&categoryId=0&parentCategoryId=0&subCategoryId=0&indexId=0&itemGUID=6842cba8ac1084547cd4ff3e383dd18c

Deadwing
3 December 2015, 08:04
I haven't tried it yet, but Cabelas has the Sig 220 Gr 300 BLK ammo on sale, if you're looking for another alternative to the Remington.

http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=1977233&categoryId=0&parentCategoryId=0&subCategoryId=0&indexId=0&itemGUID=6842cba8ac1084547cd4ff3e383dd18c

Free shipping on orders $49 and greater, too. I might order a few boxes and give it a try.

RiverRat
3 December 2015, 11:01
So while this is drifting a little afield from your original post, I'll offer an opinion that I've been largely dissatisfied with almost every UMC round I've fired on the last decade. The only UMC round that I have lingering hope for is L300AAC1 - a 120 gr OTFB .300 AAC supersonic round that isn't really made in UMC facilities. The bullet, casing, powder and assembly are all Barnes (yes, the case is even stamped Barnes). The UMC branding keeps the price at $16 per 20, which might make it worth having around in modest quantities if you run any supersonic .300 AAC. But like I said, supersonic velocity is kind of drifting from both your original topic and where 300 BO is most interesting.

gatordev
3 December 2015, 11:42
That's awesome information. Thank you. I've read nothing but good things about the performance Lehigh Defense projectiles. What length barrel does your rifle have?

It's a Ballistic Advantage 10.5". Managed to pick that up from AIM a couple of weeks ago for $99. I've only put 20 rounds through it so far (ironically, I was shooting your UMC 220gr) and it was a nice tight group at 25 yards. Figured I'd run it at a 25/75 yard zero which will give me a PBR that makes it effective from 0 to 75 yards before the bullet drops like a rock. Seemed suitable enough for indoors distances.

Deadwing
4 December 2015, 04:59
So while this is drifting a little afield from your original post, I'll offer an opinion that I've been largely dissatisfied with almost every UMC round I've fired on the last decade. The only UMC round that I have lingering hope for is L300AAC1 - a 120 gr OTFB .300 AAC supersonic round that isn't really made in UMC facilities. The bullet, casing, powder and assembly are all Barnes (yes, the case is even stamped Barnes). The UMC branding keeps the price at $16 per 20, which might make it worth having around in modest quantities if you run any supersonic .300 AAC. But like I said, supersonic velocity is kind of drifting from both your original topic and where 300 BO is most interesting.

Very interesting! Definitely worth taking a closer look at. The 220gr UMC is 100% Remington, as far as i can tell. Case head stamp is RP. My main interest in 300BLK is subs, but there are a few supersonic loads i'm interested in as well. As far as UMC ammo on the whole, I've literally shot thousands of rounds of it in recent years and have found it to be reliable, reasonably accurate, and a bit dirty. Far from the best, but well suited to the plinking/training role.

Deadwing
4 December 2015, 05:31
It's a Ballistic Advantage 10.5". Managed to pick that up from AIM a couple of weeks ago for $99. I've only put 20 rounds through it so far (ironically, I was shooting your UMC 220gr) and it was a nice tight group at 25 yards. Figured I'd run it at a 25/75 yard zero which will give me a PBR that makes it effective from 0 to 75 yards before the bullet drops like a rock. Seemed suitable enough for indoors distances.

Wow... $99 for a BA barrel is a steal! I bought a 16" BA Hanson Series barrel chambered in 223 Wylde on sale from BA for $179, i think, and that included a pinned lo-pro gas block. The build i bought it for was for my dad, so i haven't shot it much other than test firing. But those couple mags i put through it impressed me enough that i will be giving Ballistic Advantage every consideration when looking for new barrels from here on out. I'm zeroed at 25 yards with m 300BLK also. I normally run a 50yd zero, but with the bullet drop of those heavy subs, i'll probably stick with a 25yd zero for the 300BLK (on my HD rifle anyway).

I found a few videos showing the expansion of the Lehigh 194gr ME round (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgcGLi5v67s), as well as SwissyJim's review (http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?6393-Lehigh-Defense-194g-Maximum-Expansion-projectile). Very impressive stuff. Looks like the ideal bullet for a subsonic HD round to me.

DutyUse
4 December 2015, 06:06
Some additional videos on the Lehigh selections in 300.


http://youtu.be/-GyOsWuYPV0

http://youtu.be/JDym4GXrPRw

Deadwing
4 December 2015, 06:43
Good stuff.

gatordev
4 December 2015, 07:05
Some additional videos on the Lehigh selections in 300.


http://youtu.be/-GyOsWuYPV0

http://youtu.be/JDym4GXrPRw

These two videos are what really got me interested in the round. I thought they did a pretty good job, specifically Iraqvet's segment with a household set up.

DutyUse
4 December 2015, 20:33
These two videos are what really got me interested in the round. I thought they did a pretty good job, specifically Iraqvet's segment with a household set up.

Haha same thing for me. I had always kinda thought of 300 as a novelty round before watching their videos. I got the bug soon after, and should have my 8.5 upper done by Christmas :)

Deadwing
4 December 2015, 22:39
I can't find it on youtube anymore, but the video that got me interested in the 300BLK was maybe 30 seconds long, and showed some dude doing a mag dump with a suppressed, full auto rifle. Blew my mind how quiet it was. Started researching building my own after that.

gatordev
5 December 2015, 08:48
Shot another 60 rounds yesterday, doing a combo of zeroing with the Lehigh and then doing function checks with the Hornady. For me, my uses, and as someone who doesn't reload, I still find .300 a novelty, but it has the potential come in handy for specific purposes.

I ran both types of ammo from my Colt lower with a H2 and had no issues. Since the dedicated lower for this will run a H buffer, I swapped it out, and again, had zero issues. Strictly from my ear, it sounded like the Hornady was slightly louder, but that could have just been my imagination. Both had a solid pop (but no snap) with the 10.5" barrel on an Octane 45K. I was shooting from under a covered position, so I'm sure that wasn't helping, but still relevant since the intent was for this to be an indoor gun.

Also, Lehigh warns about using 1:7 barrels made by Remington (specifically their R700s). I've seen another online vendor then say ALL 1:7 barrels should be avoided (though Lehigh never said this). I had zero issues with stability on my 1:7 and the Lehigh continued to group very nicely at 25 yards.

Deadwing
5 December 2015, 19:49
Shot another 60 rounds yesterday, doing a combo of zeroing with the Lehigh and then doing function checks with the Hornady. For me, my uses, and as someone who doesn't reload, I still find .300 a novelty, but it has the potential come in handy for specific purposes.

I ran both types of ammo from my Colt lower with a H2 and had no issues. Since the dedicated lower for this will run a H buffer, I swapped it out, and again, had zero issues. Strictly from my ear, it sounded like the Hornady was slightly louder, but that could have just been my imagination. Both had a solid pop (but no snap) with the 10.5" barrel on an Octane 45K. I was shooting from under a covered position, so I'm sure that wasn't helping, but still relevant since the intent was for this to be an indoor gun.

Also, Lehigh warns about using 1:7 barrels made by Remington (specifically their R700s). I've seen another online vendor then say ALL 1:7 barrels should be avoided (though Lehigh never said this). I had zero issues with stability on my 1:7 and the Lehigh continued to group very nicely at 25 yards.

Thanks for the info. The lower i used has an H2 buffer and standard carbine action spring. Barrel is a Noveske 10.5" 1:7 with an LMT M-16 BCG. The SilencerCo ammo and Remington both cycle the gun 100% suppressed and unsuppressed and locks the bolt back. Silencer is a Saker 762. The SilencerCo ammo is quieter to my ear.

I'm just getting in to reloading, so i'll be able to tinker and play. I bought a couple pounds of Reloader7, as it's all i could find locally, for the purpose of loading 300BLK subs. Now i've got to find some loads for that powder and the Lehigh 194.

As for barrel twist, i read that about the R700 on Lehigh's web page. They also list the "Minimum Twist Rate: 1:8" for their loaded 194gr ammo. To me, that means the slowest twist rate you'd want would be 1:8, and that a 1:7 barrel would be fine. Seems to me a 1:7 twist barrel would offer greater bullet stability than a 1:8. So why that vendor would say to avoid 1:7 twist barrels leaves me a bit confused. Guess i'll call Lehigh next week and see what they say.But i'm glad to hear it's working well from you 1:7 barrel!