PDA

View Full Version : GO TIME ACTIVE SHOOTER CHEST RIG



NYLONSCIENCE
17 February 2009, 22:04
Check out this LE rig. It was designed for an LE officer to combat and prevail in an active shooter situation.It allows an LE officer to have some type of chest rig with additional ammo. Unlike a harness type chest rig, this one just drops right over your head, a two inch buckle the side and your good to go. This rig was designed by Shellback Tactical by an active LE officer. It is manufactured in the USA by Tactical Assault Gear.http://www.tacticalassaultgearstore.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=883

Like to know your thoughts on it.

Stickman
17 February 2009, 23:36
It looks similar to the Tactical Tailor Mini-MAV. The TT version comes stripped, and you can add what you need. Most of the ones that LE troops are carrying use the triple shingle giving them 3 M16 magazines, with a couple carrying extra pistol mags on it as well.

The idea is certainly sound, and in the times that I've had to grab extra gear in my LE career, the items were needed quickly. Having something in your cruiser ready to go is imperative, if its hidden away in a box back in the trunk, you won't have time to grab it.

m24shooter
18 February 2009, 03:02
Do you have any connection to this item?

jvencius
18 February 2009, 07:15
Do you have any connection to this item?

I was thinking the same thing--the combo of userid and this being the OP's first post makes me more than a little skeptical...

zero7one
8 March 2009, 17:17
From what I can tell from the small picture on the web page link provided, I have to agree with Stick with it having the similar appearance of a Mini-MAV from Tactical Tailor. Personally, I would prefer to customize my "Go vest" the way that I would personally use it and be most effective with. Though it is nice to have two extra mags, I think that 3 should be the minimum in an active shooter situation. A basic combat load for a "typical" soldier in a combat zone is 7 mags (210 rounds). Now I would hope that an active shooter situation would not take 210 rounds per officer to end, but it is better to be prepared than to say, well I wish I would have.....

Getting back on point about the featured product...

I don't think 2 rifle mags are enough. How many handgun mags do you need? (Murphy would probably have a different answer.) I have one in my G21 and 2 on my belt. I think that the space on my "Go Vest" would be better used for something more specific for the "active shooter" mission than more handgun rounds. (i.e. some first aid solutions...some chem lights...some flex cuffs...some door stops...etc.) I still need to find something that will allow me to carry some hydration and some food. Active shooter situations are rarely an in and out type of incident. If you don't have food and water on board, you may not get any for quite some time. If you are going to have more handgun mags on your vest, stacking them in front of your rifle mags would be an option. Don't limit yourself to just bullets on your vest.

Ultimately the end result of anyone getting a "Go Vest" / "Go Bag" / etc, is for that officer/operator to be more prepared to go to battle. Even thinking about putting one together puts and officer/operator ahead of most. Having something that works well for you and that you are comfortable using is what matters most. Also ease of use and accessibility is a must.

Good luck to you all in finding something that works out. Be safe out there.

scumhunter
9 March 2009, 19:25
I would have to agree that this chest rig is a good start but not good enough. My first attempt at an active shooter kit was a thigh rig that carried two extra rifle mags. I based this purchase on my departmentís requirement that we carry at least one extra mag every time we deploy our rifle. After thinking it through and having some practical application, I quickly decided that a rifle and 90 rds (30 rds more than required) was a big step in the right direction but clearly inadequate.
I have now gone to a shoulder bag (go-bag, man purse, active shooter kit) or whatever label you want to put on it. I can now carry 3 extra rifle mags, 2 extra pistol mags, flex cuffs, door wedges, a small medical kit, a small bottle of water, Power Bar and a flash bang.
I now feel this is the bare minimum but it is the balance that I have come up with between being mobile and being another target. Since I donít have an issued cruiser I have to load and unload gear for every shift. Iím far from lazy but I also had to consider how many trips I was going to make from the locker room to the cruiser.
I love the idea of a go-vest with ballistic coverage but that is big $$$$. In addition, I donít think I could get all the gear on the front of my vest that I have in my little go-bag. I feel confident that I could carry my go-bag throughout an active shooter incident at a large school or mall. A tac-vest with all goods would definitely slow me down and wear me out on an extended search of a large structure.
My vote is for the bag. Iíll go confidently with someone with a tac-vest, but the guy with the chest rig and a couple of extra mags hasnít properly prepared. I know he / she hasnít thought this battle through.

scumhunter
9 March 2009, 19:31
Just in case you didn't read my essay.......no I don't like the chest rig you're trying to sell.[crazy]

Eric
10 March 2009, 05:21
My vote is for the bag. Iíll go confidently with someone with a tac-vest, but the guy with the chest rig and a couple of extra mags hasnít properly prepared. I know he / she hasnít thought this battle through. We're seeing more and more nylon gear comming out from various sources. The one-size-fits-all plan doesn't always solve the problem. The end user has to examine what they want to accomplish, what is going to work for them and go from there.

Cannon549
12 March 2009, 13:51
I know that I'm new here and all. I don't especially like this bag either. But holy hell scumhunter, all the crap that you're talking about carrying, there are people in active war zones that aren't taking that much junk with them for entire missions. What do you mean when you say "deploy" your rifle? I use mine on high risk car stops, high risk warrant service and other stuff. Sure it would be nice to have an entire trailer, card table, bed and all kinds of extras there with me for every situation, but I have improvise, adapt and overcome. Sometimes I even have to throw my carbine over my back and run after someone. I think with my water bottle, thigh rig and all that other crap that may hinder me a little bit. Have fun getting your ditty bag out of your car, with the happy meal in it while I'm working on getting the job done.

scumhunter
13 March 2009, 09:23
You may be new but you bring up a good point; I also “deploy” my rifle for high risk stops, building searches and many other patrol applications. My department requires our rifles be kept in the vehicle trunk, thus “deployed” into service. I’ll attack this policy at a later time and attempt to stay focused on the question at hand.
I don’t grab my active shooter bag for every high risk vehicle stop either. My active shooter bag is designed and stocked for the “text book” active shooter situation at a school, mall, hospital, etc. My go-bag contents are pretty standard. I’m not trying to be condescending but it sounds like maybe you haven’t gone though any professional active shooter training. Let me re-list my contents and add an explanation or two as to why I carry it.
Ammo, lots of ammo! I have extra rifle and hand-gun ammo. How much ammo should one officer carry? I think you will get a different answer from every “expert” in the field. I have a total of 150 rds .223 and 75 rds .40. I want more but I also want to be able to move quickly.
Water and Power bar (Happy Meal-lol). If I get into a large structure such as a high school I know the primary search for “the shooter” may be short OR long. Hydration and food may not be needed for the primary search. Without question, the secondary search for additional shooters and additional victims WILL BE LONG. I want food and fluids to stay on my A-game if I’m spending the next 2-3 hours searching a large structure.
Flex Cuffs, I carry six pairs in my bag. Most mass-murders work in singles or pairs but I may not be able to determine the good guys from the bad guys right away. I need to be able to secure potential threats as well as known threats. Flex cuffs can also be used as a make-shift tourniquet for heavy bleeders.
Small medical kit, I do carry minimal medical supplies. These are for me or my partners. If I or my partner take a round I know it could take a long time before the area is safe enough for the fire department to scurry to us. I just carry enough stuff to stop bleeding and sustain my life or my partner’s life. My job is not to provide medical treatment for the citizen “victims”. My job is to find the SOB that shot them and take care of business.
Door wedges are very helpful in a long search. You can wedge doors closed on areas that you can’t search for tactical reasons (door locked from the inside). You can also wedge doors open to maintain visual coverage or wedge fire doors open so you can re-access areas incase you need to change course.
Flash-bang. I carry one (1) flashbang in my go-bag but I don’t know anyone else who does this. I can imagine some scenarios where a bang could be useful. Do I think a bang is a must have? Not at all, I’m not sure I’ll keep carrying it myself. It adds a lot of weight and takes up space that could be used for other items. It will stay in my go-bag for now.
Extra batteries are a must for a long search. Both my weapon mounted lights chew up batteries pretty quick. My regular flashlight is rechargeable but it will accept the same (123) batteries that my weapon lights use. I carry 6-8 extra batteries, stock goes up and down on a regular basis.
I likely have some other things in my bag but this is all I can think of right now. I’ll try to remember to throw my bag on a scale for future debate.
When I deploy my rifle for a high risk vehicle stop or other quick application, I do not grab my go-bag. I meet my department’s “extra magazine policy” by keeping two mags clinched together. If I go into a large building search or other situation where I am holding my rifle for a long period I take my go-bag. I put the “double mag” in my go-bag and use a single mag for weight reasons. I train on a regular basis with both single mags and my double mag for just this reason.

zero7one
13 March 2009, 11:22
-Rant On-

Though I respect everyone's opinions on here, I think we can make these discussions more tactful and also keep an open mind when others have opinions or suggestions. What may work out great for one person may not be feasible for others. There is no "cookie cutter" answer to anything we do. No two calls we go to are going to be exactly the same. Being prepared is what we all want to be for any and all situations that we go into. Improvising is part of the game and most of us probably do it on a daily basis. Forethought of potential problems and situations can save us when the time arises. I don't think that it is necessary for us to get into a "mine is bigger than yours" match, but to inform others what we have found to work and what doesn't. It is up to each of us to make determinations of what will suit us best. We make mistakes and we learn from them. Others make mistakes and we learn from them. Not making the same mistake twice is how we become better at what we do.

-Rant Off-

Stay safe out there.

Army Chief
13 March 2009, 11:50
Flex Cuffs, I carry six pairs in my bag ... I may not be able to determine the good guys from the bad guys right away.

I suppose this is intuitive to at least some extent, but it remains an excellent point. In military settings, such as personnel recovery or downed pilot pickups, standard procedure dictates that captives/aircrews should NOT attempt to take an active part in their rescues, as the potential for a tactical team to mistake them as hostiles is significantly elevated if they are on the move during the initial breaching/engagement. Cuffs and blindfolds are often all a part of the rescue process because, as noted above, things that are readily apparent 10 or 20 minutes after a tactical mission are often anything but clear during the kinetic action phase.

Moving back into an LE setting, it is a far better thing to zip a half-dozen possibles as a precautionary measure than it is to miss just one beligerent.

AC

scumhunter
13 March 2009, 13:16
-Rant On-

I think we can make these discussions more tactful and also keep an open mind when others have opinions or suggestions. What may work out great for one person may not be feasible for others. There is no "cookie cutter" answer to anything we do. I don't think that it is necessary for us to get into a "mine is bigger than yours" match, but to inform others what we have found to work and what doesn't.

-Rant Off-

Stay safe out there.

ďIím not saying youíre wrong, Iím just saying Iíd do it differentlyĒÖÖÖ..my boss loves that line.
Iím not sure if this was directed at me or Cannon but I am open minded to other points of view and I certainly wasnít trying to step on any toes or be untactful. If you want to blaze into an active shooter situation with a rifle and a couple extra mags, Iím not saying your wrong; Iím just sayiní Iíd do it differently.
If my family is in a building with an active shooter I pray that at least one of the first responders show up with a rifle and a warrior mindset, anything else is just gravy.
If Iím one of the first responders, Iím showing up with all that and a few extra tools that may or may not make a difference on how this poo storm turns out.

Army Chief
13 March 2009, 13:46
So let us begin anew ó remembering on both sides that civility is not a sign of weakness ... ---JFK


Steady, boys. Steady.

AC

scumhunter
13 March 2009, 14:27
I was just playin, honest. I really liked my cookie cutter joke that got edited. Now I'm all pouty. You can take my jokes but you canít take passion for gear!

Army Chief
13 March 2009, 14:43
I'm all for light-hearted banter when the occasion calls for it, but these kinds of jokes tend to work a lot more effectively if more than one person "gets" them. ;)

AC

Stickman
13 March 2009, 15:19
I hate to break this to everyone, but most cops aren't carrying anything they aren't issued. With this in mind, I welcome every cop I train, interact with on my squad, or wearing a badge to go the extra mile and get what is needed for when times are hard. That starts with the proper mindset, with equipment being secondary.

If we are to debate equipment issues, thats fine, but lets keep the focus on what works for us, and why. If you are detracting from what someone else uses, please give solid reasons based on your training and experience why you feel it to be in error.

NYLONSCIENCE
14 March 2009, 23:54
I have read all the comments to my original post and I think they are all good ideas. To answer some of the first posts, I do have a connection to this Rig. I am the designer of it. A little background on me, I have been a full time police officer for 13 years in southern,Ca and I am still on the job pushing a black and white. I have also been in the Tac industry for 6 years. Just to clarify, This rigs design/concept did not come from seeing the Mini-Mav rig. At the time it was designed I did not know that rig was even on the market. And until recently after a little research, it wasn't even available on their website. So my rig came out on the market before the Mini-Mav. Enough with that. This rig was designed as a grab and go type rig. Unlike other rigs this one drops over your head and does not have other straps criss crossing behind the back. Rigs like that are good but they are not quick. It would take you some time to put that one on. My rig is designed because the incident with the active shooter is going down now. I'm not saying it's the total solution but it is an option. Most cops I see don't set up or carry anything for the most part. This was the first model. For those that want to set up their on kit on the front it also comes in a molle/pals version. There are also three other version coming out soon. One has 3 rifle mags sewn on the front with three rows of pals webbing to add even more gear.Most active shooter situations are going to be quick and dynamic, and you are going to have to handle business now. If it lasts a while SWAT will probably then be there. Go bags are great to have all kinds of different gear for your daily duties. But a bag with 10-20 mags or so are probably not going in with you on the active shooter hunt. I'd like to see someone carry one in. your gonna want to be light and quick to get the job done. More mags are great but the more mags = more weight. Thanks for all your input.

Army Chief
15 March 2009, 00:39
I could be missing the point, but I can recall instances in my own limited LE experience when a shotgun or patrol rifle was deployed more as a precaution than as a response to a known active shooter situation (i.e. clearing a warehouse at night following a call of possible suspicious activity, or responding to an alarm at an isolated industrial park which was known to malfunction with some regularity).

In situations such as those, a quick donning vest would have been just what the doctor orderered, whereas a full-on go bag would have almost certainly been left behind for the very reasons that Nylonscience mentioned. When you know what you're rolling into, it's easier to get the equipment mix right; when you've no idea what you're likely to encounter -- or more likely, not encounter -- the most streamlined solution is the one which is most likely to actually be deployed.

AC

Cannon549
16 March 2009, 01:14
Apparently I started a real firefight with my comment. That wasn't my intent. It just sounded like, to me at least, everytime he needs to grab his carbine he has to throw on a tac vest an grab a war bag. I have plenty of crap in my trunk and at the beginning of every shift I look like I'm packing the family truckster to go off to Wally World. To me it sounded like his possibly "antiqued" department policies were in need of change.

I know how it goes, we have the guys on the upper floors that sit there and think that it's not a problem for me to duct tape my vest on everyday because they don't want to pay for a new one. They even offer to buy the tape for me.

Back to this thread though, I have a "war" rig that has all of that junk (happy meal water and all) and then I also have a simple chest rig "bandolier" style that holds a couple extra mags for the "quicker" stuff.

scumhunter
16 March 2009, 02:06
I could be missing the point, but I can recall instances in my own limited LE experience when a shotgun or patrol rifle was deployed more as a precaution than as a response to a known active shooter situation (i.e. clearing a warehouse at night following a call of possible suspicious activity, or responding to an alarm at an isolated industrial park which was known to malfunction with some regularity).

AC


AC couldn’t be more on the point. This is where my conflict is coming from. We are comparing apples to oranges as far as the uses of a patrol rifle and the associated gear. Without question the rifle has many uses in law enforcement, but the featured product “The go time active shooter chest rig” it is being clearly marketed as an active shooter accessory.
“Active shooter” has a very specific definition in my simple mind and I immediately relate it to events such as Columbine, Virginia Tech, The Taj Mahal hotel or similar incident. We all know the ever lengthening list of mass murder situations where a gunman or gunmen enter a target rich environment such as a mall or school with the sole purpose of generating a high body count.
The featured chest rig provides access to extra ammo. Ammo is good, very good but I want more tools to get the job done when multiple people are being slathered. The officers and agencies that have had these horrible events preach a similar theme…..Go fast and go prepared. My personal choice for being prepared is the go-bag.
As we all know the rifle has many other applications. As mentioned, high risk traffic stops, perimeter duty, armed disturbances, the list can go on and on. I can think of a lot of situations where I would like to have the ability to securely carry and have access to additional ammo, just ammo. It appears “the go time active shooter chest rig” would be perfect for most all of these types of scenarios. I really like the fact that Nylonscience has made getting the rig on fast and simple. Back when I was using my thigh rig for extra ammo it got left in the car when things were happening fast. Even though it may have taken me 10-15 seconds to get it on, that is a loooong time when you hot stop a vehicle or roll up on a shooting scene. Pulling this chest rig over your head and engaging one quick buckle on the move seems to be well thought out.
Holy gear nerd, I’m about to totally contradict my earlier declaration of not liking your chest rig. I’m going to buy this thing and put it into service. The only catch is you have to rename it “the go time everything BUT an active shooter chest rig”. It will never replace my go-bag but by the grace of God it will get a lot more use!

xjkrenzer
29 April 2009, 11:28
i think you would be happier long term with a vest styled rig. In my experience, anything that hangs on your neck like that design will become a PITA during extended use, chafing, soreness ect. I am however biased towards urban combat styled rigs worn over a ballistic vest. look through the "Ranger Joes" webstore, they have a lot of similar priced items that offer more features and versatility.

Lex Talionis
29 April 2009, 16:54
how about a style that mounts to the leg/thigh like a tactical holster?

what do you guys think of that style?

scumhunter
6 May 2009, 01:07
I started out with a thigh rig but didn't like it. Even with the belt clip, I still had to run the straps around my leg and make sure they didn't cross in the process. It just took too long to get it on when rolling up on a hot scene. To top it off, the only thing it provided was ammo. I like having a few extra tools/toys available for some situations. See my lengthy rants above for further info.

Policetacteam
11 May 2009, 00:27
Man..apparently I'm just catching the tail end of this game!! [pop] Lots of great points and alot of different views. Most of the guys here probably work in very different areas (city, county, sandbox) and have very different needs. I agree with Stick in that if you have an arguement or different view at least back it up with real world experiences and why you have come to that conclusion. I have tried several different methods for carrying extra gear for active shooter situations.

1) 5.11 chest rig. This was nicely made and cheaply priced. It allows the user to configure it however they see fit. It was very easy to throw on and fit very well over my duty uniform with belt rig on. For the price, and if you are wanting to go "minimalist" this is a cheap solution!

2) 5.11 Active Shooter bag. Semi-small and just enough room for plenty of mags (both rifle and handgun), first aid kit, light, and other essentials. I have trained with this bag on while shooting my rifle and handgun and barely notice that its there! It may not be for everyone but it works very well for me!

3) Back-up SWAT vest in my trunk.

All three of these provide options. As a firearms instructor for my department I am always glad to have other officers come to me with questions about "what can I do to be more prepared". The vast majority of the officers that I work with are NOT in the warrior state of mind when they arrive for work. Being prepared is half the battle and we must show up ready to do work.

cmoore
28 June 2009, 23:11
I hate to break this to everyone, but most cops aren't carrying anything they aren't issued. With this in mind, I welcome every cop I train, interact with on my squad, or wearing a badge to go the extra mile and get what is needed for when times are hard. That starts with the proper mindset, with equipment being secondary.

I wish Stick was my sarge. He has the properr mindset. I always get my
!@#$ stepped on when I think outside the box in order to complete a mission more effeciently/safely.

I have to wade through the "administrative paralysis" on a daily basis....which is why I work nights[crazy]

Thanks Stickman, for posting the truth...

cmoore...

out...

Jerry R
30 June 2009, 15:26
Being a "non-Professional" user of equipment, I would like to ask a question about this and other vest type carriers.

I see a lot of them with a buckle right where the buttstock goes. I know a Body Armor underneath would keep that buckle off your shoulder, but for those of us not wearing armor isn't that uncomfortable when firing?

That's why I have the 5.11 Active Shooter Bail Out Bag.

Sorry if that sounds like a stupid question, but .......... :confused:

Failure2Stop
10 July 2009, 06:35
I realize that I am about 4 months late to this party, but the recent post got me to read the whole thing and it prompted some interest.

I do some work with guys that use "go-bags" in a subdued military role in semi-permissive environments. We do quite a bit of vehicle-ambush and bug-out work. Without getting into TTPs, the final goal is a hasty withdraw through the known area with the least amount of incoming, which requires some rapid work to get out of the bullet-magnet and into a suppressive posture to permit small-team movement.

I have seen several instances of sub-optimal interaction with the go-bag- everything from throwing it on backward, losing mags, inability to retain partially filled mags, lots of shifting during movement, etc. Unfortunately, a conventional chest-rig is just too slow to don when you need to fight NOW. Bandoleers don't really work due to storage issues and how the gear is placed to permit instant access by the individual.

The Go-Time rig looks like a very viable alternative. For our application it would need to be a little heavier on mags- I would say 3 minimum, but the PALS version would rectify that by being able to mount exactly what we need. A few rifle and pistol mags with a strobe pouch, bleeder kit and small radio would be great. If the body could be opened to provide storage for maps and air-panels would be nice, but not really a deal-breaker.

The idea of something that you can grab and throw over your head for the immediate fight is pretty good. Not something I would want to wear for dedicated repeatitive patrol work, but for it's purpose it seems a better alternative to other options.