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gatordev
21 November 2015, 16:45
I haven't bought a Noveske product since before Mr. Noveske died...until recently. So this isn't meant to be a blast on the company, but an honest question on what's "normal" and whether I should worry about this...

I have a 2010-ish N4 upper that's been the cat's pajamas. It's been put on multiple lowers, including a 2010-ish blem lower (before they had "Chainsaw" products). The upper has fit on all the lowers I've tried without issues (Noveske, Spike's, JD Machine, Colt).

Due to a recent injury, I've had a new (2015) Chainsaw Gen 1 Noveske lower awaiting buildup to go on the upper mentioned before. Today I finally had a chance to put the parts together and see how it fit. First up, I noticed hammer pin holes were very tight. Normally I can take a SSA pin and push it most of the way in without much help (maybe a little tapping), but this lower seemed to be more tight than normal (similar experience for the trigger pin).

Then I tried to put the lower on the upper and I can't even get the rear take-down pin to go into the upper lug hole. It will go into the lower holes just fine without the upper, but once the upper is in there, it seems like the lower holes are drilled *just* a tad too high from spec. I can tap on the pin with a mallet and get it to go in, but there's no way I can get the take-down pin out without a mallet and a punch, no matter how much I push down on the upper.


So here's the question... I've always understood Chainsaw products to still be in spec, but just have blemishes. I'm completely fine with blemishes (there were many on my lower, but I don't really care). But it should still be in spec, right? ESPECIALLY with a Noveske upper, right?

Just trying to figure out if this is worth my time to pursue...Or maybe I'm just being a drama llama...though a llama should be able to breakdown an AR without the need of tools. Okay, maybe an above-average llama.

GOST
21 November 2015, 17:01
I had some problems with the last couple of products I got from them. I would contact them, they fixed the issues I had.

UWone77
21 November 2015, 17:30
Post Johnny Noveske and especially since Sheri left has been less than impressive.

Hmac
21 November 2015, 17:37
Hell, I have three rifles built on Gen 1 Noveske lowers. ALL are "less than impressive" relative to fit.

UWone77
21 November 2015, 17:40
I'm really just wondering who is left at Noveske to innovate new products.

gatordev
21 November 2015, 18:13
I'm really just wondering who is left at Noveske to innovate new products.

Since I'm not a stock holder, I don't really care about innovation, just basic fit and function. I'm sure the system will function okay, but makes it a bitch to take apart and service. Fit is super tight, but that's not really a concern in the real world (my Colts are loosey-goosey). I just hate having to beat on things to make them operate (field strip) according to spec.

I'll try and give them a call this week, if I have time. I just don't really want to have to get a new lower, plus FFL/state fees, for something that I had good faith to be in spec in the first place.

Okay, maybe now the llama is getting the best of me.

UWone77
21 November 2015, 18:33
Since I'm not a stock holder, I don't really care about innovation, just basic fit and function. I'm sure the system will function okay, but makes it a bitch to take apart and service. Fit is super tight, but that's not really a concern in the real world (my Colts are loosey-goosey). I just hate having to beat on things to make them operate (field strip) according to spec.

I'll try and give them a call this week, if I have time. I just don't really want to have to get a new lower, plus FFL/state fees, for something that I had good faith to be in spec in the first place.

Okay, maybe now the llama is getting the best of me.

Well fine... no innovation, enjoy your crappy fit and finish. [:D]

DutyUse
21 November 2015, 19:14
My new gen 3 upper was also extremely tight on my gen 2 Lower. I even asked on here if it might be out of spec as well. I worked with it over the last month and it's broken in. It's still tight but nothing like it was

GOST
21 November 2015, 19:24
Some of the Gen 3 stuff may be tight due to Noveske possibly not taking into account the added Cerakote.

DutyUse
21 November 2015, 19:28
My best guess since I've seen this complaint pretty consistently from people who've recently bought from them is that one of their jigs is probably off a fraction of a MM or two.

GOST
21 November 2015, 19:34
Hopefully they'll get their stuff straightened up, they've been getting more and more negative reviews lately. But who knows, the negative reviews don't seem to be hurting their sales.

DutyUse
21 November 2015, 20:41
I'm hoping a little bit of negativity will go a long way over there

UWone77
21 November 2015, 21:47
Here's the last Gen 1 Chainsaw I've had for awhile partially built. This one hasn't had any spec issues so far, but obviously not done.


http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af282/richdkim77/5S3A3671_zpss5hyxs3v.jpg (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/richdkim77/media/5S3A3671_zpss5hyxs3v.jpg.html)

UWone77
21 November 2015, 21:48
Here's the last Gen 1 Chainsaw I've had for awhile partially built. This one hasn't had any spec issues so far, but obviously not done.


http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af282/richdkim77/5S3A3671_zpss5hyxs3v.jpg (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/richdkim77/media/5S3A3671_zpss5hyxs3v.jpg.html)

cjd3
22 November 2015, 00:32
Here's the last Gen 1 Chainsaw I've had for awhile partially built. This one hasn't had any spec issues so far, but obviously not done.


http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af282/richdkim77/5S3A3671_zpss5hyxs3v.jpg (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/richdkim77/media/5S3A3671_zpss5hyxs3v.jpg.html)

Bolt catch seems to have flown out of spec.

DutyUse
22 November 2015, 06:31
Nice. id almost forgot how nice a gen 1 looks when it doesn't have color fill [BD]

gatordev
22 November 2015, 07:42
Well fine... no innovation, enjoy your crappy fit and finish. [:D]

Well played. UW, is that one in the picture the latest one you grabbed from Rainier? If it is, I'm guessing it's from the same batch as mine. I'll be curious if you have any takedown pin/upper lug tightness.

UWone77
22 November 2015, 08:19
Well played. UW, is that one in the picture the latest one you grabbed from Rainier? If it is, I'm guessing it's from the same batch as mine. I'll be curious if you have any takedown pin/upper lug tightness.

I almost guarantee it will. I base that opinion off the last 3 I've purchased. One is so tight I regret SBR'ing it.

voodoo_man
22 November 2015, 09:10
I need a chainsaw lower.

Anyone know a place that has new chainsaw branded lowers?

BoilerUp
22 November 2015, 10:04
I need a chainsaw lower.

Anyone know a place that has new chainsaw branded lowers?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=noveske+chainsaw

Edit: first link in the results is to Noveske's site. Foged. Blem. $175 [BD]

Joelski
22 November 2015, 11:07
Here's the last Gen 1 Chainsaw I've had for awhile partially built. This one hasn't had any spec issues so far, but obviously not done.


http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af282/richdkim77/5S3A3671_zpss5hyxs3v.jpg (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/richdkim77/media/5S3A3671_zpss5hyxs3v.jpg.html)

Sir, a member of your stature should not have such dross smirching his fine cadre of killin' tools. Please send that to me for immediate proper disposal. :D

DutyUse
22 November 2015, 11:11
How long did you look in the thesaurus before you posted that Joel? [BD]

Joelski
22 November 2015, 11:12
I know "stuff"

gatordev
22 November 2015, 13:16
I almost guarantee it will. I base that opinion off the last 3 I've purchased. One is so tight I regret SBR'ing it.

Well, at least I know I'm in good company.

Farva
22 November 2015, 15:43
I have a gen 2 chainsaw lower in the closet awaiting building. Hopefully I don't run into these issues

DutyUse
22 November 2015, 17:36
I have a gen 2 chainsaw lower in the closet awaiting building. Hopefully I don't run into these issues

It's gonna suck man, I wouldn't even get into the frustration. You probably need to trade me for it :D

Farva
22 November 2015, 19:02
It's gonna suck man, I wouldn't even get into the frustration. You probably need to trade me for it :D

Well ok if you sa.... Hey wait a minute!! You silver tongued devil you! You almost pulled one over on me! [BD]

DutyUse
22 November 2015, 19:19
Well ok if you sa.... Hey wait a minute!! You silver tongued devil you! You almost pulled one over on me! [BD]

Haha. I've handled a bunch of lowers, some nicer or better machined, some with cooler features but the Gen 2 Noveske is by far my most prized. I'm always on the lookout for more

Farva
22 November 2015, 19:52
Well good there's hope yet! I was thinking of SBR'ing the Noveske lower but I think I make it into an SPR so I have a good lower to take across state lines without all the hassle. The kitty will be an SBR for sure!

Deadwing
22 November 2015, 20:08
My one and only Gen 1 Chainsaw lower is just a hair tight with a few of my uppers. Definitely doesn't require tools to separate the upper from the lower, even with the tightest fitting of them. I SBR'd this lower, so i made sure to test for fit before i had the engraving done, and deffo before sending $200 off to Uncle Sam. All of my other Chainsaw parts (Gen 2 lowers, forged uppers, as well as Noveske marked MUR uppers).

At least you can get the pins through with a mallet and punch. I bought a custom upper from Daniel Defense a couple years ago and couldn't get the takedown pin to go in. I then tried getting a spare pin to go through the hole on just the upper, wouldn't even begin to go. An email to DD revealed that they'd had an issue with some undersize takedown pin holes. I should've sent it back, but that was more of a pain in the ass than spending a few minutes drilling the hole out with a 1/4" drill bit. But in your case, since the lower is the issue, i'd send it back and get Noveske to cover FFL and state fees. If enough people send back out of spec product, maybe it'll start to hurt their bottom line and be the kick in the balls needed to get their QA/QC back in line.

Calico Jack
23 November 2015, 05:38
Other than the name what makes a Noveske lower any better than a Aero lower? Noveske uses forging from Cerro or Key or one of the other forgets like everyone else? I know milling is a big part of it.

DutyUse
23 November 2015, 12:29
Other than the name what makes a Noveske lower any better than a Aero lower? Noveske uses forging from Cerro or Key or one of the other forgets like everyone else? I know milling is a big part of it.

If you compare an Aero to a Noveske Gen 1 then youd be spot on for saying there is little to no difference. IMHO you'd be better saving your money and getting the much cheaper Aero (which are amazing in their own right)

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/23/707ff513337b4303e2d165f750078788.jpg


http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/23/f595bc262c41d09b3a82db897d6f0b61.jpg


It's not until you step up to the Gen 2 or 3 Noveske that you get any real benefits over a standard forging. But still for a 250$ premium I'd still say stick with the Aero.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/23/394cba452fa4b1da281c3f2847b5f8d5.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/23/3ce7501643811097c05f3bf87ff6eeee.jpg


When people say your paying for the brand name or rollmark, Noveske is the company they are usually talking about. They really need to reevaluate their pricing structures

gatordev
23 November 2015, 13:43
I definitely did not need this Noveske lower. It's "replacing" a JD Machine lower, and really the intent was to finally have a matching Noveske factory upper on a lower. Normally I wouldn't really care about that (except my Colts....which I can't really defend other than my OCDness). JD Machine is a large manufacturer and I'm pretty sure they did Spike's lowers for a while. I've been to their shop in San Diego and it was impressive, so it worked just fine and really didn't need to be replaced.

Since this the price was really good from Rainier, I grabbed this Noveske lower. Oh well. Maybe I should have just bought the Battle Kitty...or saved my money for ammo.

Deadwing
23 November 2015, 18:15
I definitely did not need this Noveske lower. It's "replacing" a JD Machine lower, and really the intent was to finally have a matching Noveske factory upper on a lower. Normally I wouldn't really care about that (except my Colts....which I can't really defend other than my OCDness). JD Machine is a large manufacturer and I'm pretty sure they did Spike's lowers for a while. I've been to their shop in San Diego and it was impressive, so it worked just fine and really didn't need to be replaced.

Since this the price was really good from Rainier, I grabbed this Noveske lower. Oh well. Maybe I should have just bought the Battle Kitty...or saved my money for ammo.

I'll bet you could sell that lower and make money. You could sell sand at the beach if it was marked Noveske.

Have you tried a different set of pins from a different LPK/manufacturer? I had an issue with a super tight fit with a billet lower that was partially cured with a different set of pins. Tolerance stacking could be an issue.

I'll be curious to see how Noveske handles this, should you decide to contact them. They do guarantee the parts to be 100% functional, so they ought to make it right for you.

Deadwing
23 November 2015, 18:17
If you compare an Aero to a Noveske Gen 1 then youd be spot on for saying there is little to no difference. IMHO you'd be better saving your money and getting the much cheaper Aero (which are amazing in their own right)

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/23/707ff513337b4303e2d165f750078788.jpg

That color fill is NOT helping the case for Noveske in any way, shape, or form. [BD]

gatordev
23 November 2015, 18:41
I'll bet you could sell that lower and make money. You could sell sand at the beach if it was marked Noveske.

Have you tried a different set of pins from a different LPK/manufacturer? I had an issue with a super tight fit with a billet lower that was partially cured with a different set of pins. Tolerance stacking could be an issue.

It's not really the pin that's the issue. The pin fits fine in the lower, and the upper fits fine on multiple other lowers. I think it's just slightly off from spec, but since aluminum is ductile, the pin can be driven in and, presumably, over time it will get easier. I suppose I could sell it with the LPK installed, but otherwise I'd have to take it all out again, which I'm not convinced is worth my time.


I'll be curious to see how Noveske handles this, should you decide to contact them. They do guarantee the parts to be 100% functional, so they ought to make it right for you.

Meh. I'll probably just live with it. Again, even if they swap it out, I have to pull all the pins out. Not the end of the world for most of the LPK pieces, but still a pain. At least BAD gives me extra screws so I can re-locktite the levers...

If I get a chance at work this week, maybe I'll shoot them an email, but I fear this will take more time than it's worth. Now if the pin didn't go through at all...yeah, I'd totally be on them.

n4p226r
8 January 2016, 12:36
threads like this seem to upset me. when i first got into scary black rifles, like most people, i knew nothing. i really wanted a wilson combat. to be honest, i couldnt tell you why. i guess like most first time buyers, it was based on look. then, before i even started forum surfing I started to see stickman's photos being shared all over. i knew then i needed a noveske. i saved until i found a gen 2 lower and built it up with what i thought was the best parts. then the NSR came out. i was hooked. Ive shot rifles with other rails but the NSR is the best for me. it just fits like a glove, looks great, and the keymod is perfect for what i use.

i now have 2 rifles using noveske sourced parts. im trying to understand why it seems they have the most trouble keeping up with demand and seem to have the tightest fit, to the point of sometime not working. the AR doesnt seem like a complicated design, and i really like the way the gen 3 upper and lower actually look like they were made to go together. hopefully they turn it around, but it seems like it's been at least 2 years with these problems. maybe it's an industry wide thing. i mean even larry vickers has hinted at not feeling the same way about DD as he did in the past, but they havent had any public outcry like noveske has.

Hmac
8 January 2016, 13:13
I'm done with Noveske, even if it was actually possible to buy the things they advertise. My experience has been "ho-hum" at best (Gen 1). I bought a BAD lower when they first came out. THAT is a nice piece of work.


http://ssequine.net/BAD uppers.jpg

http://ssequine.net/BAD rifles.jpg

UWone77
8 January 2016, 13:35
threads like this seem to upset me. when i first got into scary black rifles, like most people, i knew nothing. i really wanted a wilson combat. to be honest, i couldnt tell you why. i guess like most first time buyers, it was based on look. then, before i even started forum surfing I started to see stickman's photos being shared all over. i knew then i needed a noveske. i saved until i found a gen 2 lower and built it up with what i thought was the best parts. then the NSR came out. i was hooked. Ive shot rifles with other rails but the NSR is the best for me. it just fits like a glove, looks great, and the keymod is perfect for what i use.

i now have 2 rifles using noveske sourced parts. im trying to understand why it seems they have the most trouble keeping up with demand and seem to have the tightest fit, to the point of sometime not working. the AR doesnt seem like a complicated design, and i really like the way the gen 3 upper and lower actually look like they were made to go together. hopefully they turn it around, but it seems like it's been at least 2 years with these problems. maybe it's an industry wide thing. i mean even larry vickers has hinted at not feeling the same way about DD as he did in the past, but they havent had any public outcry like noveske has.

It has a lot to do with their relationship with suppliers.


I'm done with Noveske, even if it was actually possible to buy the things they advertise. My experience has been "ho-hum" at best (Gen 1). I bought a BAD lower when they first came out. THAT is a nice piece of work.


http://ssequine.net/BAD uppers.jpg

http://ssequine.net/BAD rifles.jpg

Just curious Hmac, what parts weren't you able to obtain? But you're right... that BAD Forged lower is a piece of work. They need a matching Forged upper.

n4p226r
8 January 2016, 14:04
It has a lot to do with their relationship with suppliers.
.

id assume you and many others here would be more informed on this than I. It just confuses me. I don't claim to know who all of noveske's suppliers are but it seems pretty apparent that the Gen 3 stuff is SMOS, the gen 1 stuff i have no clue, the gen 2 uppers are vltor. even with these quality control issue threads nobody has ever questioned noveske's barrels from what i can tell. it seems erathr3 stuff is smos stuff as well. from what i can tell SMOS and Vltor arent new companies ironing out things, nor are they known for substandard parts. i used to put it off as people that wanted to see a "top tier company" fail but the more I see well respected names I start to question. Even some comments from people that I thought were involved with the company at a more involved level than a fanboy. at least it'll be a while before im in the market for another AR. maybe by then we will see "the old noveske is back" thread.

DutyUse
8 January 2016, 15:36
id assume you and many others here would be more informed on this than I. It just confuses me. I don't claim to know who all of noveske's suppliers are but it seems pretty apparent that the Gen 3 stuff is SMOS, the gen 1 stuff i have no clue, the gen 2 uppers are vltor. even with these quality control issue threads nobody has ever questioned noveske's barrels from what i can tell. it seems erathr3 stuff is smos stuff as well. from what i can tell SMOS and Vltor arent new companies ironing out things, nor are they known for substandard parts. i used to put it off as people that wanted to see a "top tier company" fail but the more I see well respected names I start to question. Even some comments from people that I thought were involved with the company at a more involved level than a fanboy. at least it'll be a while before im in the market for another AR. maybe by then we will see "the old noveske is back" thread.

I think UW was talking about downstream suppliers. Like the fact retailers will have orders on hold for months for certain Noveske stuff and instead of fulfilling their orders, Noveske has been known to go and sell that stuff on their own website and leave waiting retailers in the dark.

n4p226r
8 January 2016, 16:02
oh. that makes much more sense. I thought he was speaking of why they couldnt get product to suppliers and it made me confused. Although i did pick up a pair of 13.5" NSRs (one chainsaw from noveske and one nice one from midway) recently so what i really needed I was able to get.

DutyUse
8 January 2016, 16:20
oh. that makes much more sense. I thought he was speaking of why they couldnt get product to suppliers and it made me confused. Although i did pick up a pair of 13.5" NSRs (one chainsaw from noveske and one nice one from midway) recently so what i really needed I was able to get.

Nice! Post photos when your done. I also love the NSR (keymod or mlok!)

n4p226r
8 January 2016, 16:25
ill post pictures but it will be kinda boring for most. its a 22lr upper im building. the second one i got because i was sick of waiting for stock so i wanted a spare, which will probably go on something like a colt oem-2 or something.

Deadwing
8 January 2016, 18:48
threads like this seem to upset me. when i first got into scary black rifles, like most people, i knew nothing. i really wanted a wilson combat. to be honest, i couldnt tell you why. i guess like most first time buyers, it was based on look. then, before i even started forum surfing I started to see stickman's photos being shared all over. i knew then i needed a noveske. i saved until i found a gen 2 lower and built it up with what i thought was the best parts. then the NSR came out. i was hooked. Ive shot rifles with other rails but the NSR is the best for me. it just fits like a glove, looks great, and the keymod is perfect for what i use.

i now have 2 rifles using noveske sourced parts. im trying to understand why it seems they have the most trouble keeping up with demand and seem to have the tightest fit, to the point of sometime not working. the AR doesnt seem like a complicated design, and i really like the way the gen 3 upper and lower actually look like they were made to go together. hopefully they turn it around, but it seems like it's been at least 2 years with these problems. maybe it's an industry wide thing. i mean even larry vickers has hinted at not feeling the same way about DD as he did in the past, but they havent had any public outcry like noveske has.

For what it's worth, I haven't experienced any real quality issues with any of my Noveske products. The Gen 1 lower i SBR'd is a tight fit with some uppers, and the anodizing on every Gen 1 piece i own is inconsistent and unique in color, and are all different in color from the four NSR hand guards i own. Both of my factory built Gen2 guns (which both have Noveske marked VIS uppers) and my factory built Gen 3 gun (which has an SWS made rail) were flawless when i purchased them and are among the best shooting rifles i own. All the Noveske barrels i've purchased and guns i've cobbled together from Chainsaw receivers are accurate and preform perfectly. But, the same or better quality can be had by purchasing rifles and components from other companies for less money.

As for Daniel Defense, i've not encountered any issues with their rails but a complete custom upper i ordered from them came to me with a takedown pin hole so undersized that i literally had to drill it out with a 1/4" drill bit in order to get it to fit on any lower i owned. The muzzle device on that same upper was incorrectly timed and needed to be removed, have a new crush washer put on, and reinstalled. DD offered to make the repairs. Since they f@#*ed the assembly and machining the first time, i just took care of it myself. A complete DD rifle i purchased prior to that wasn't anything to write home about, but at least it worked, despite me having to re-time the muzzle device (they seem to have a problem with that).

Deadwing
8 January 2016, 18:50
I'm done with Noveske, even if it was actually possible to buy the things they advertise. My experience has been "ho-hum" at best (Gen 1). I bought a BAD lower when they first came out. THAT is a nice piece of work.


http://ssequine.net/BAD uppers.jpg

http://ssequine.net/BAD rifles.jpg

That's a beautiful rifle. I love my bad lowers. i agree with UW: BAD needs a matching forged upper. I'm not crazy about their Gen 2 lowers, as the use a set screw type pin (which i'm not crazy about in general) to retain the bolt catch. I prefer a good old roll pin.

John Moses
8 January 2016, 21:09
Oh the stories. I have more than my share of Noveske, most from the time John was with us. I have 2 Gen NON Chainsaws that are crap. Sent both back to Noveske for repair, and they didn't fix it. Said they were "in spec" but offered to send me "out of spec" parts to fit it. It was the last straw. Essentially the lowers had the buffer retention detent hole machined to small. I had V7 Detents I wanted to use, and they wouldn't even start in the hole! I was told by Chris (at Noveske) that the Cerakote build up and to lightly sand it. Tried it and no luck. Sent them in and the detents (.250") IIRC, and the holes were like .241..... they offered to sen me some undersized detents, but they wouldn't enlarge them for me. I even had to pay shipping to them. (not a huge deal) but thought they would help me out. I also had a CHF FN barrel from them that had a burr all the way around the barrel extention than I had to take town just to get in my upper......I know Sheri has always done whatever it takes to help me in the past.....this new company is not the same IMO. I don't want to bash them, but I thought Dillon was going to do great things with the company. It's been a year of basically hibernating for them. It's a shame, because that is a company that could really do great things. I still hope they do.

Hmac
9 January 2016, 09:08
It has a lot to do with their relationship with suppliers.



Just curious Hmac, what parts weren't you able to obtain? But you're right... that BAD Forged lower is a piece of work. They need a matching Forged upper.

Once I was able to finally get the actual matched upper/lower (several weeks for all three of the ones that I own), I was unable to get the QD endplate, a barrel, BCH, charging handle, Troy sights. NSR rail...that took months, and I never WAS able to get a crow's foot wrench.

The first non-issue, non-Colt rifle I ever had was a Noveske Light Recce w/VIS. Great rifle. Very reliable and well-made (although beastly heavy). I've tried hard to be a diligent Noveske fan-boy over the years, but they just keep thwarting me.


.

gatordev
9 January 2016, 13:32
I was shooting my N4 today with my MK6. I was checking to see how much POI changed with Wolf Gold (I had a bad experience with it last week on another gun). That N4 upper (c. 2010) is just one amazing piece of hardware. While it didn't shoot less than MOA, it did stack shots on top of one another a good deal of the time. The lack of sub-MOA performance was quite clearly not the fault of the upper/barrel and more the shooter (and initially, a cold bore).

Meanwhile, the N4 lower that I bought a few months ago continues to be very stubborn when needing to actuate the rear take down pin and just kind of sours me on what was. Assuming no bad financial issues cause me to do so, I don't ever plan to sell that N4 upper. The lower? Meh. It works, but I just don't see the need to buy another Noveske product when there's so many other great and accurate options out there nowadays.

Deadwing
9 January 2016, 14:33
Once I was able to finally get the actual matched upper/lower (several weeks for all three of the ones that I own), I was unable to get the QD endplate, a barrel, BCH, charging handle, Troy sights. NSR rail...that took months, and I never WAS able to get a crow's foot wrench.

The first non-issue, non-Colt rifle I ever had was a Noveske Light Recce w/VIS. Great rifle. Very reliable and well-made (although beastly heavy). I've tried hard to be a diligent Noveske fan-boy over the years, but they just keep thwarting me.


.

I've had similar experiences with trying to gather all the parts i need for a Noveske build. Not once have i been able to order everything in one shot. It's usually months before i have all the Noveske parts collected for a build. I gave up on getting a barrel nut wrench from Noveske and wound up ordering a 1 1/16" crowfoot wrench from Snap-On.

Hmac
9 January 2016, 16:42
I've had similar experiences with trying to gather all the parts i need for a Noveske build. Not once have i been able to order everything in one shot. It's usually months before i have all the Noveske parts collected for a build. I gave up on getting a barrel nut wrench from Noveske and wound up ordering a 1 1/16" crowfoot wrench from Snap-On.

Yeah, I ended up buying a cheapo wrench off Amazon and spending about 10 minutes on a bench grinder. Not pretty, but it worked on that NSR barrel nut. In the meantime in the sanding-to-fit category., two of the Noveske matched upper/lower sets I bought have trouble dropping PMags, and none of my three Noveske uppers will fit any of the other Noveske lowers enough to allow the takedown pin to be pushed in.

DutyUse
16 January 2016, 10:48
Well Noveske has been busy lately behind closed doors. First they released the integrally suppressed upper and now the N6!

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/16/03e9a2a0996f27d12ad369401bba3472.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/16/9109fc9b28c76617cb5dbe18f6fd56b1.jpg

UWone77
16 January 2016, 11:00
Man, shorty .308's hurt to shoot.

DeviantLogic
16 January 2016, 11:15
Would be nice if they made the switchblock NSR's available for retail.

DutyUse
16 January 2016, 12:44
Would be nice if they made the switchblock NSR's available for retail.

This

Deadwing
16 January 2016, 14:25
Jesus... a 12.5" .308? I suppose if one were to dislocate their shoulder and needed a way to put it back, that might be the ticket. I can't wait to see how much the N6 is going to cost. I'm guessing one will have to pull a second mortgage on their home to afford one.

Daniel Defense has already done the integrally-suppressed thing. Not my cup of tea. Kind of ties you down to one configuration for the life of the rifle, which to me negates the benefit of the inherent modularity of the platform.

Deadwing
16 January 2016, 14:27
Would be nice if they made the switchblock NSR's available for retail.

But then you'd be deprived of the opportunity to purchase an $1800 factory built Switchblock upper. [BD]

SINNER
16 January 2016, 15:02
Extra heavy buffer and a orange Sprinco and they are manageable. With Hornady Home defense and a fairly heavy can mine is actually fun.

JGifford
17 January 2016, 02:00
I've been down this road...Noveske took care of me, but as far as I'm concerned, the company has been gutted at this point. I'm sad. Noveske was an American business with a great reputation less than half a decade ago. Now their product is seemingly suspect.

UWone77
17 January 2016, 05:17
I've been down this road...Noveske took care of me, but as far as I'm concerned, the company has been gutted at this point. I'm sad. Noveske was an American business with a great reputation less than half a decade ago. Now their product is seemingly suspect.

Game. Set. Match.


Still love my Noveske Rifles that function 100%.... will be a customer in the future if/when they turn it around.

Deadwing
18 January 2016, 03:04
Game. Set. Match.


Still love my Noveske Rifles that function 100%.... will be a customer in the future if/when they turn it around.

I'm still a customer. I'm a dyed in the wool Noveske fanboy and can't really see that changing. But i do find myself choosing other options over Noveske more frequently these days. All my Noveske rifles and barrels function 100%, and i love them. So it's not quality that's steering me other directions. It's cost and availability. There are so many other options these days that offer the same quality for less money, and they're in stock. I'm really hoping Noveske get's it together.

DutyUse
18 January 2016, 08:24
I'm still a customer. I'm a dyed in the wool Noveske fanboy and can't really see that changing. But i do find myself choosing other options over Noveske more frequently these days. All my Noveske rifles and barrels function 100%, and i love them. So it's not quality that's steering me other directions. It's cost and availability. There are so many other options these days that offer the same quality for less money, and they're in stock. I'm really hoping Noveske get's it together.

Well said. I feel exactly the same way. Pricing needs to be re-evaluated, and they need to get their manufacturing partnerships back on track. That said I love my Noveske products and will continue to be a customer

Bronco75
18 January 2016, 10:16
I have a couple Gen III builds I did about a year ago. The takedown pins were tight on both builds but did improve over time and use. I had no issues with the trigger pins, Geissele SD3G trigger group in both builds. One build is a Noveske MUR upper and the other is a Gen III upper. Just a little tight at first on these. HOWEVER, if I use my Colt upper or KAC upper...they are tight enough I have to use a punch to get them open. MIL-SPEC....does not appear that way.

I was an admitted Noveske fan-boy. KAC has been getting most of my money as of late...

Army203
18 January 2016, 10:23
I have a couple Gen III builds I did about a year ago. The takedown pins were tight on both builds but did improve over time and use. I had no issues with the trigger pins, Geissele SD3G trigger group in both builds. One build is a Noveske MUR upper and the other is a Gen III upper. Just a little tight at first on these. HOWEVER, if I use my Colt upper or KAC upper...they are tight enough I have to use a punch to get them open. MIL-SPEC....does not appear that way.

I was an admitted Noveske fan-boy. KAC has been getting most of my money as of late...

Must be hard having to keep guns now bro...[:D]

John Moses
18 January 2016, 18:13
I'm still a customer. I'm a dyed in the wool Noveske fanboy and can't really see that changing. But i do find myself choosing other options over Noveske more frequently these days. All my Noveske rifles and barrels function 100%, and i love them. So it's not quality that's steering me other directions. It's cost and availability. There are so many other options these days that offer the same quality for less money, and they're in stock. I'm really hoping Noveske get's it together.

THIS.....the bottom line is they do not really offer anything you can not buy from the actual manufacturer. I still love their barrels, but all that made them special has been learned by others. Chamber Dave can only do so much. I do like the NSR as well but whomever is making them (SMOS?) is not keeping up. Part of what made it a special company was John, Joel, Sheri etc. It's a company that could have grown into greatness, and has just fallen flat on it's face IMO. I want them to get their act together really bad.

Deadwing
18 January 2016, 18:36
THIS.....the bottom line is they do not really offer anything you can not buy from the actual manufacturer. I still love their barrels, but all that made them special has been learned by others. Chamber Dave can only do so much. I do like the NSR as well but whomever is making them (SMOS?) is not keeping up. Part of what made it a special company was John, Joel, Sheri etc. It's a company that could have grown into greatness, and has just fallen flat on it's face IMO. I want them to get their act together really bad.

In post #37 of this thread (http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?8492-Noveske-NSR-Mlok/page3), Stickman spells it out. SMOS was making the NSR for Noveske, but is NOT doing so anymore.

Jinxy
24 February 2016, 19:57
I just ordered a matched gen 3 set. Showed up at my FFL and it has a nice dent/scratch on the rail section of the upper. Looks like someone attempted to cover with cerakote or a thick paint. Have some emails going with Noveske and the place it was purchased from. Hope they take care of it. The lower looks perfect...little bummed all in all. If this was supposed to be a chainsaw set I'd understand.

DutyUse
25 February 2016, 15:08
I just ordered a matched gen 3 set. Showed up at my FFL and it has a nice dent/scratch on the rail section of the upper. Looks like someone attempted to cover with cerakote or a thick paint. Have some emails going with Noveske and the place it was purchased from. Hope they take care of it. The lower looks perfect...little bummed all in all. If this was supposed to be a chainsaw set I'd understand.

That sucks man, sorry to hear about that. Can you post a photo of what your talking about? I'm curious what they are letting slide...

Joelski
25 February 2016, 15:24
Crappy service, messed up parts, but hey, they have "lifestyle" stuff! Sad to say, but this company was founded on ideals that are no longer there. How long will the life support last? Noveske catered to a lot of people who could give two shits for lifestyle crap.

Deadwing
25 February 2016, 16:47
Deffo sucks getting damaged goods when you've paid good money for them. But that said, I wouldn't be so quick to lay the blame on Noveske for the scratch in your receiver. It's entirely possible that it was damaged in transit to whoever you bought it from, or while in their possession, and they tried to cover it up and pass it off as first rate merchandise.

Jinxy
25 February 2016, 19:29
Deadwing I thought the same things as well. Did my ffl try to cover something up? If they did they would have done a better job. They do a lot of cerakote work. The other thing, the retailer called me today and stated that 3-4 other people have called them back with similar issues on the matched Noveske sets they purchased. This retailer received 10 matched sets in total. He said some of the pics he received had damage to the upper receivers worse than mine. I don't know why the retailer is not looking them over when verifying serial #'s. He was getting in contact with Noveske to get it rectified.

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a439/Jinxy81/57C94732-FA2C-41C9-8F99-F48FFDDB17F3_zpsp3vxqcso.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/Jinxy81/media/57C94732-FA2C-41C9-8F99-F48FFDDB17F3_zpsp3vxqcso.jpg.html)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a439/Jinxy81/F9A1C3AA-4CEC-4D7D-A0E0-A7308A01FC54_zpsqzu2qjjw.jpg (http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/Jinxy81/media/F9A1C3AA-4CEC-4D7D-A0E0-A7308A01FC54_zpsqzu2qjjw.jpg.html)

DutyUse
26 February 2016, 05:48
Eh... QD optics mounts will do that kinda rubbing or more. If your not happy with it I'll gladly take it off your hands :)

Jinxy
26 February 2016, 07:26
Eh... QD optics mounts will do that kinda rubbing or more. If your not happy with it I'll gladly take it off your hands :)

None of my QD mounts (Larue/ADM) have rounded/dented the corners off of the picatiny on of any of my uppers (some with 3-4k rounds on them- (yes I know thats not a lot)). Wear the cerakote/anno a bit? Maybe a little. I am just a little turned off when I paid 580.00 for something I expected to be perfect since Noveske is touted for their QC. I have receivers from aero, Anderson, cmmg, core, smos, rainier, double star, and Noveske gen 1 and they were all perfect and a lot cheaper. When you pay a premium for a premium company you expect a little more. Is it going to get dinged and scratched? More than likely...but I want to be the one who does it :)

Stone
26 February 2016, 13:38
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-rNIAN5o5M

Deadwing
26 February 2016, 15:59
^ LOL!

Jinxy
26 February 2016, 16:19
Just got an email from the retailer. Tim from Noveske is taking care of the issue as well as the other customers.

DutyUse
27 February 2016, 18:27
Just got an email from the retailer. Tim from Noveske is taking care of the issue as well as the other customers.

Good to hear it bro. I just ordered a gen 1 set tonight straight from Noveske so I'll be anxious to see what it looks like

mtdawg169
27 February 2016, 18:37
Good to hear it bro. I just ordered a gen 1 set tonight straight from Noveske so I'll be anxious to see what it looks like
I'll be interested in the fit of your Gen 1. Last two I had were undersized in almost every way. Takedown, pivot pins, detents and all the roll pins. Both lowers would not accept Geissele pins or BAD selectors. And when I say they wouldn't accept them, I mean they wouldn't insert at all.

DutyUse
27 February 2016, 18:39
I'll be interested in the fit of your Gen 1. Last two I had were undersized in almost every way. Takedown, pivot pins, detents and all the roll pins. Both lowers would not accept Geissele pins or BAD selectors. And when I say they wouldn't accept them, I mean they wouldn't insert at all.

Me too. The last gen 3 set I got was also rough to install. Very tight all around

mtdawg169
27 February 2016, 18:41
Me too. The last gen 3 set I got was also rough to install. Very tight all around
Respectfully, why bother with them again? Considering the premium they demand, is it worth the hassle?

DutyUse
27 February 2016, 19:09
Respectfully, why bother with them again? Considering the premium they demand, is it worth the hassle?

I love the way the finished product turn out. We've got other top tier brands in our collection though.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/02/27/5808d78de4c1ec66acf897077e00c913.jpg

n4p226r
12 March 2016, 07:23
i often wonder about issues like this. how do these issues arise with noveske but you don't see them on any threads from other companies that source with the same vendors. is it just a volume thing? I mean, people are drooling over the SMOS stuff, but how is it any more or less likely to get the same fit/finish issues than when you could buy the same product from noveske?

mtdawg169
12 March 2016, 07:37
i often wonder about issues like this. how do these issues arise with noveske but you don't see them on any threads from other companies that source with the same vendors. is it just a volume thing? I mean, people are drooling over the SMOS stuff, but how is it any more or less likely to get the same fit/finish issues than when you could buy the same product from noveske?
Good question. I have to assume that Noveske is specifying the lowers to be made at the low end of the tolerance. But that's just a guess.

Joelski
12 March 2016, 08:16
The fitting requirement I can see falling under the John regime. I can imagine he and a lot of people would rather have to require some fitment than hear about, or deal with sloppy tolerances and fit over finish. Performance absolutely matters more than looks, but at Gen III prices, it ought to be pretty, too.

Brahmzy
12 March 2016, 08:35
Back in the John days, all rifles and upper/lower sets were hand fitted for perfect tolerance. If you buy a single upper/lower, it's game on as far as fitment goes. This is nothing new. You don't like it? Buy a Colt. Guaranteed to fit and be loose as a goose.
MEGA Arms is the closest I've ever seen to getting their tolerances identical piece by piece. I've bought a TON of MEGA separate Uppers and Lowers and almost all have a perfect tight, but not too tight of a fitment with each other. They'll be the first to admit this is one of their strengths. Exacting, constistant tolerancing on every piece that goes out the door. To .001.

UWone77
12 March 2016, 08:47
Back in the John days, all rifles and upper/lower sets were hand fitted for perfect tolerance. If you buy a single upper/lower, it's game on as far as fitment goes. This is nothing new. You don't like it? Buy a Colt. Guaranteed to fit and be loose as a goose.
MEGA Arms is the closest I've ever seen to getting their tolerances identical piece by piece. I've bought a TON of MEGA separate Uppers and Lowers and almost all have a perfect tight, but not too tight of a fitment with each other. They'll be the first to admit this is one of their strengths. Exacting, constistant tolerancing on every piece that goes out the door. To .001.

What a coincidence... guess who is making Noveske Receivers now [:)]

Deadwing
12 March 2016, 09:16
i often wonder about issues like this. how do these issues arise with noveske but you don't see them on any threads from other companies that source with the same vendors. is it just a volume thing? I mean, people are drooling over the SMOS stuff, but how is it any more or less likely to get the same fit/finish issues than when you could buy the same product from noveske?

Funny you should bring this up. My SMOS GFY set fit each other perfectly, but don't fit other uppers/lower for shit. My factory built Gen 3 Noveske actually is MORE compatible with other uppers/lowers than the SMOS. Noveske bashing is the fashionable thing to do these days. Just as it's fashionable to be goo-goo ga-ga over SMOS right now. Which is amusing as hell, since there's a good chance that the Noveske parts people are bitching about were probably made by SMOS; and from my sample of one, the SMOS parts exhibit the same issues the Noveske whiners are carrying on about. Can't make this shit up.

UWone77
12 March 2016, 10:19
Funny you should bring this up. My SMOS GFY set fit each other perfectly, but don't fit other uppers/lower for shit. My factory built Gen 3 Noveske actually is MORE compatible with other uppers/lowers than the SMOS. Noveske bashing is the fashionable thing to do these days. Just as it's fashionable to be goo-goo ga-ga over SMOS right now. Which is amusing as hell, since there's a good chance that the Noveske parts people are bitching about were probably made by SMOS; and from my sample of one, the SMOS parts exhibit the same issues the Noveske whiners are carrying on about. Can't make this shit up.

Someone didn't get their coffee this morning. [:D]

But I hear what you're saying.

alamo5000
12 March 2016, 10:26
Someone didn't get their coffee this morning. [:D]

808

n4p226r
12 March 2016, 10:49
What a coincidence... guess who is making Noveske Receivers now [:)]

based on my limited experience with Mega arms billet parts (a whopping 2 sets) i can't say i'd be upset by a mega manufactured Noveske set. I wonder who is making the rails now.

UWone77
12 March 2016, 10:53
based on my limited experience with Mega arms billet parts (a whopping 2 sets) i can't say i'd be upset by a mega manufactured Noveske set. I wonder who is making the rails now.

Yeah, I could think of worse things than Have Mega Arms produce your receivers. :) Their machining is second to none.

My issue with Noveske isn't so much as my receiver sets don't perfectly match, or my barrel isn't concentric to the bore. Everyone puts out a lemon once in awhile.

But who is coming up with new products or innovation there now?

Can't just slap a name on the logo forever.

n4p226r
12 March 2016, 10:56
Funny you should bring this up. My SMOS GFY set fit each other perfectly, but don't fit other uppers/lower for shit. My factory built Gen 3 Noveske actually is MORE compatible with other uppers/lowers than the SMOS. Noveske bashing is the fashionable thing to do these days. Just as it's fashionable to be goo-goo ga-ga over SMOS right now. Which is amusing as hell, since there's a good chance that the Noveske parts people are bitching about were probably made by SMOS; and from my sample of one, the SMOS parts exhibit the same issues the Noveske whiners are carrying on about. Can't make this shit up.

thanks for the info. This is kinda what I was asking. Im still a Noveske fanboy but would love a SMOS piece as well. (what i'd really like is an Erathr3 matched set without the skeletonized magwell).

n4p226r
12 March 2016, 11:08
Yeah, I could think of worse things than Have Mega Arms produce your receivers. :) Their machining is second to none.

My issue with Noveske isn't so much as my receiver sets don't perfectly match, or my barrel isn't concentric to the bore. Everyone puts out a lemon once in awhile.

But who is coming up with new products or innovation there now?

Can't just slap a name on the logo forever.



id have no way of knowing if the barrel is concentric to the bore. I just hope that there is LESS chance of that happening with noveske than with a brand that cost 1/4 as much. But who knows. At least I've never seen them not follow through and make things right when people had complaints.

My complaint is on the opposite side now. I'm not quite sure what new products and innovations they should come up with. I mean they have a great design billet lower (gen3) set and a forged set (gen1). Their roll-mark is the one of the best in the industry (call my shallow but i don't want a stupid penis squishing a bug on the side of my gun). The NSR is great. If they come out with the NHR and NQR that still mounts off of a NSR barrel nut that would be even better. And i think they at least started that route. They seem to be integrating the switch block into the NSR rail. They have a 308 coming out for people that dig that stuff.

I get that noveske brought to market, or at least was early adopters of a lot of stuff (keymod), the end plate quick detach, the switch block) but their biggest negative was always stocking product. I'd be happy with them figuring out a way to keep all the NSR lengths in stock (or the 13.5" and F the rest of you that need different lengths), and keeping receivers in stock, while still putting out plenty of complete guns.

The only thing they are missing is a "lightweight" receiver set like the 2a bailos or the erathr3 set, but both of those companies offer that.

im not seeing where there is much more innovation going besides rebranding more stuff. when you look at the market as a whole, there isn't a lot of "new" stuff coming out. My friend has a umbrella corp billet lower that has a way of holding the bolt open when you push the mag release. is something like that "innovative" or just another feature on a 60 year old design.

If anything, i'd like to see a run of 20" m16a2 spec rifles with the iron cross on the side

bzdog
12 March 2016, 13:27
When I purchased my Gen 2 rifle it was during a time when it seemed a new gun ban could be around any corner. I wanted a rifle that I would be happy with if it were the last rifle I could ever buy. And it is that.

While it had the just released NSR rail, that wasn't really the reason. It was more than Noveske was paying just a little more attention to each detail than a lot of other folks. Maybe not in any way that really mattered in a huge way, but the NSR rail was a sign of their desire to make things better. Their barrels. The flared forged lower. Well sourced mil spec parts. Their fitment. The DRIVE of the founder to build no BS stuff that *worked*.

The bottom line is you could buy with confidence that you were not just going to get a rifle that ran well, but ran well, fit well and had a bit of flare. In short, a rifle you'd he happy with if it were the last rifle you could every buy. One you'd be willing to stake your life on.

Unfortunately, I think it was John's drive to ensure things were stake-your-life-on-it quality that held things together. The magic smoke was let out of the box with his passing. Perhaps Noveske will find some new magic. It need not be the same magic as before. Or maybe it won't.

Innovation was one part of the old magic, and I do value it. Maybe we don't NEED titanium gas blocks and barrel nuts, ambi and lightweight parts, better rail designs, but I'm glad there are still companies out there looking to push things forward. Today I look at BAD, V7, AXTS and that combination of innovation and quality is still out there.

-john

Brahmzy
12 March 2016, 16:15
Very interesting about MEGA/Noveske...

gatordev
12 March 2016, 18:09
Back in the John days, all rifles and upper/lower sets were hand fitted for perfect tolerance. If you buy a single upper/lower, it's game on as far as fitment goes. This is nothing new. You don't like it? Buy a Colt. Guaranteed to fit and be loose as a goose.

I don't know I'd agree with that. My Johnny days lower fits both Noveske and other uppers just fine with a nice fit but that doesn't require a punch. My new Noveske lower doesn't even fit a Noveske upper (albeit from Johnny days) without some not inconsequential tapping both ways.

UWone77
12 March 2016, 18:13
I don't know I'd agree with that. My Johnny days lower fits both Noveske and other uppers just fine with a nice fit but that doesn't require a punch. My new Noveske lower doesn't even fit a Noveske upper (albeit from Johnny days) without some not inconsequential tapping both ways.

I agree. Most of my rifles are from the John days, they certainly weren't hand fitted for perfect tolerances.

din
12 March 2016, 19:00
Can't just slap a name on the logo forever.

I dunno, Colt's been doing it for years.

UWone77
12 March 2016, 19:27
I dunno, Colt's been doing it for years.

Colt has military contracts, they could get away with it for awhile.

Now they're fighting their way out of bankruptcy.

din
12 March 2016, 21:11
I know, just being a smartass.

Deadwing
12 March 2016, 21:56
Someone didn't get their coffee this morning. [:D]

But I hear what you're saying.

No, i hadn't had my coffee yet. In fact, i'd been up all night. [BD]


808

LOL! I need one of those mugs!

alamo5000
12 March 2016, 22:01
LOL! I need one of those mugs!

I saw them a long time ago and I thought they were hilarious!

You can google it and they have a ton of different styles that say the same thing.

Deadwing
12 March 2016, 22:16
Yeah, I could think of worse things than Have Mega Arms produce your receivers. :) Their machining is second to none.

My issue with Noveske isn't so much as my receiver sets don't perfectly match, or my barrel isn't concentric to the bore. Everyone puts out a lemon once in awhile.

But who is coming up with new products or innovation there now?

Can't just slap a name on the logo forever.

I agree 100%. The "old" Noveske innovated. I'd love to see them innovate again.

And i'd heard a rumor after SHOT that Noveske was going to start having their receivers made by a industry leader but never heard a name mentioned. Mega popped to mind, and i'm glad that's the case. Every Mega piece i own is exceptional.


thanks for the info. This is kinda what I was asking. Im still a Noveske fanboy but would love a SMOS piece as well. (what i'd really like is an Erathr3 matched set without the skeletonized magwell).

You're welcome. I hope my comments don't paint the wrong picture. I'm not complaining about either Noveske or SMOS. I'm quite happy with both, despite neither one being perfect or 100% compatible with other products. If i wanted 100% compatibility, i'd have bought milspec parts from a company that produces to the TDP. Even then, one has to expect the occasional variances or tolerance stacking issues that will cause compatibility problems. That said, i have 100% confidence in both and would trust my life to them.

JGifford
12 March 2016, 23:02
So, did noveske confirm mega or no? I didn't see it if so.

DutyUse
13 March 2016, 05:49
Wow I really hope Noveske/Mega partnership is in the works. A mega gen 3 set with a branded wedgelock rail would be a thing of beauty

Deadwing
13 March 2016, 06:02
So, did noveske confirm mega or no? I didn't see it if so.

Coming from UW, my guess would be he got the inside scoop from someone in the know. I can't see him passing on bad information.


Wow I really hope Noveske/Mega partnership is in the works. A mega gen 3 set with a branded wedgelock rail would be a thing of beauty

Good gawd... I have sticker shock just thinking about it!

I do wonder if Noveske will take this as an opportunity to start with a clean sheet, say introduce a Gen 4 series, or simply pick up where they left off with the Gen 3 stuff.

UWone77
13 March 2016, 06:05
So, did noveske confirm mega or no? I didn't see it if so.

I don't think they're going to come out and confirm it.

I can only say that I've heard this from more than one person that knows the situation better than I do.

DutyUse
13 March 2016, 06:13
Coming from UW, my guess would be he got the inside scoop from someone in the know. I can't see him passing on bad information.



Good gawd... I have sticker shock just thinking about it!

I do wonder if Noveske will take this as an opportunity to start with a clean sheet, say introduce a Gen 4 series, or simply pick up where they left off with the Gen 3 stuff.

I really hope it's a gen 4. Ambi controls similar to the CMT or rainier wevo lower. And a slight redesign of the mlok nsr with the design like the erathr3 with only top rail at the front and rear inch or two and slick in th middle. Ahh one could dream. Would be nice to own all 4 gens tho :)

UWone77
13 March 2016, 06:15
I really hope it's a gen 4. Ambi controls similar to the CMT or rainier wevo lower. And a slight redesign of the mlok nsr with the design like the erathr3 with only top rail at the front and rear inch or two and slick in th middle. Ahh one could dream. Would be nice to own all 4 gens tho :)

Well.... that escalated quickly. [:D]

n4p226r
13 March 2016, 11:41
Well.... that escalated quickly. [:D]

next thing you know they'll be the first company to license the KAC SR15 bolt design

mtdawg169
13 March 2016, 11:45
next thing you know they'll be the first company to license the KAC SR15 bolt design
You don't know how bad I wish KAC would do this with someone like BCM.

DutyUse
13 March 2016, 16:22
Well.... that escalated quickly. [:D]

My inner fanboi comes out when I talk about Noveske :)

Joelski
13 March 2016, 16:29
My inner fanboi comes out when I talk about Noveske :)

You're gushing like a schoolgirl at a twilight convention..

:D

DutyUse
13 March 2016, 16:30
You're gushing like a schoolgirl at a twilight convention..

:D

Haha. They need to give me a job

n4p226r
13 July 2020, 06:48
I really hope it's a gen 4. Ambi controls similar to the CMT or rainier wevo lower. And a slight redesign of the mlok nsr with the design like the erathr3 with only top rail at the front and rear inch or two and slick in th middle. Ahh one could dream. Would be nice to own all 4 gens tho :)

bumping a real old thread, but you weren't far off. hahaha

UWone77
13 July 2020, 18:23
I really want a Noveske Space Invader SBR.

Joelski
14 July 2020, 05:03
I really want a Noveske Space Invader SBR.You are sure going through a blaster phase.

n4p226r
14 July 2020, 05:47
I really want a Noveske Space Invader SBR.

definitely. you should get a ghetto blaster to go with it.

n4p226r
14 July 2020, 06:00
does anyone know if the gen 4 NSR is different than the regular NSR? I notice the Mlok rail in pictures no longer have the two separate lines on the angled portions of the rail.

Gen 4 Rail - you can see different versions from the same article.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/60B9B3B3-0781-44C1-A15D-2D7E14F4EC8C.jpeg
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/87BB3E50-3EA5-488D-9BFE-4701809BE483.jpeg
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/gen4.jpg


Original Mlok NSR
https://ar15safespace.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Noveske-NSR-15-Mlok.jpg

fledge
14 July 2020, 09:16
Looks like they either went mlok on 7 sides like KAC and others or they copied SMOS design now that SMOS is no longer making rails for them.

n4p226r
14 July 2020, 11:06
looking at more pictures even the weight relief holes on the sides under the top picatinny is different between the pictures. some are in groups of two, some are evenly spaced, and some are only in the middle of the rail

n4p226r
16 July 2020, 06:25
noveske said on their instagram that its a new gen 4 only rail so not yet available for sale. im guessing it's a total redesign as the infidel has a Pinned KX3 inside the rail so it probably is closer in size to their SD rail if I had to guess. I'm a little surprised they didn't go with a different barrel nut attachment method since that seems to be the biggest NSR complaint I see. I don't mind it personally, since it's not like I ever take a barrel nut off once it's on.
https://noveske.com/collections/gen-4-13-7-rifle

fledge
16 July 2020, 19:49
I don’t see much difference between the gen 3 and 4 but for Zev styling and semi-ambi controls. The price of the one you posted is stupid unjustifiable money for relatively old tech.

Yeah, timing a barrel nut sucks and is unnecessary with so many other attachment options. Appears much cheaper to produce too.

n4p226r
17 July 2020, 05:40
I don’t see much difference between the gen 3 and 4 but for Zev styling and semi-ambi controls. The price of the one you posted is stupid unjustifiable money for relatively old tech.

Yeah, timing a barrel nut sucks and is unnecessary with so many other attachment options. Appears much cheaper to produce too.

is there anything "new tech" about any AR-15 produced today?

the main difference I was talking about was with the rail. there seems to be a lot of differences between that and the current NSR

fledge
17 July 2020, 06:30
My point was “unjustifiable” money in relation to the tech (yes, tech has outpaced this rifle, see KAC, Radian, wedgelock attachment, etc, but you know that). Sadly, Noveske today is about “better rifles through marketing.”

The only real “upgrade” on the rail I see is the 7-sided mlok they should have done years ago. That said, if I didn’t have rails already on my Noveske/SMOS uppers, I’d consider one at a Black Friday discount.

UWone77
17 July 2020, 08:23
I often wonder what John Noveske would think about what's going on with Noveske's current offerings.

Gen2,3,4 all hard to spot the differences between the generations. 3 and 4 should still be Gen 2's. Gen 3 just an update, Gen 4, should be like Gen 2 ambi.

Timed barrel nuts are like so 10 years ago.

Should stick to what they're known for... barrels. I recall a few years back they had a batch of barrels that weren't concentric and it seems like they've fallen out of favor. Or maybe others caught up.

Used to be a big Noveske fan boy.... still own a dozen Noveske rifles, but haven't bought anything new since Sheri left.

n4p226r
17 July 2020, 08:50
I often wonder what John Noveske would think about what's going on with Noveske's current offerings.

Gen2,3,4 all hard to spot the differences between the generations. 3 and 4 should still be Gen 2's. Gen 3 just an update, Gen 4, should be like Gen 2 ambi.

Timed barrel nuts are like so 10 years ago.

Should stick to what they're known for... barrels. I recall a few years back they had a batch of barrels that weren't concentric and it seems like they've fallen out of favor. Or maybe others caught up.

Used to be a big Noveske fan boy.... still own a dozen Noveske rifles, but haven't bought anything new since Sheri left.

i think they've only fallen out of favor on the forums. I found it interesting that when the gen 2 ended and gen 3 began (which i assume is when the forging molds were just about due for a refresh), is when everyone started giving noveske a hard time online. then when SMOS came out with the GFY receivers the noveske bashing and era3/smos love started. I always found that interesting because the late gen 2 and early gen 3 receivers everyone "hated" and didn't fit with tight tolerances were pretty much SMOS manufactured from what I could tell. I never really heard any major issues on the barrels except from people saying "they aren't what they used to be" or "john would have never done that" but really, i can't tell a difference. At least the complaints of the barrels being "overgassed" are measurable qualities that people can complain about. Why was SMOS the new "thing to have" at that time, when the same lower with a noveske roll mark was still "not the same noveske"? I haven't heard anything about the bore not being concentric. That would be inexcusable for what i always thought of a company was essentially a barrel maker with rebranded AR parts behind it.

And let's be honest, the space invader and ghetto blaster are pretty cool and we all want one or two of each. (even if one is a honey badger rebranded for the most part). I think i'd order a space invader and surefire ryder 9 mp5 tomorrow if i was allowed to own one.

The price is the only thing that i can see people complain about, but when you can't keep items in stock, nobody in their right mind is going to lower prices.

I almost have to believe it is more of personal issues with how the company has been run after more than the product. They seemed to go through a few people running the company in a few short years. Sheri stayed on for a bit. then left. SMOS was the manufacturer, then they weren't, then they came out with identical product and named it GFY. I feel like there is bad blood there that I'll never know about that people picked up on and it carrier over into what people picked up on in the market. Im still waiting for the band to get back together and merge the companies that split out of the original noveske. and hopefully they still make videos with hot chicks in bikinis shooting guns.

mustangfreek
17 July 2020, 09:06
gen 4 - improved allot and extra flare... lol
I just want another gen 2 lower to build something off of.. maybe even a gen 1

But ya I’d take a space invader.. but 3 g’s...


I’d say there was something good going on behind the scenes... lol

Smos bcg....[BD]

fledge
17 July 2020, 09:49
SMOS designed and owned rights to the gen 3. Noveske broke with them (don’t know specifics) and SMOS created their GFY acronym as a joke on Noveske, producing the same thing at a much better price. The joke persisted, SMOS made far more than original intended (topped out at 10k sets, I’m told), because people understood Noveske’s marketing was built into their overpricing. Not to mention Noveske’s turnover and self-satisfaction reaching Q pitch. The Noveske PDWs with Q stocks are additional branding turnoff.

SMOS approached us on this forum about interest in their products and many here supported them as early adopters. They took care of us.

So yeah, if you could get a no-nonsense gen 3 for much less, why wouldn’t you? The barrels SMOS continues to turn are top tier. Whether the gen 3 was not as good as gen 2 (forged vs billet) was a moot point on that dispute. Even with SMOS now no longer making the Gen3 with their logo, you can get one in original form from Head Down Arms or from JFE with lightning cuts. That’s why Noveske had to change their cosmetics because their branding of the gen3 was diluted. The changes appear mostly cosmetic with a Mega/Zev touch.

I personally have more trust in the zero-marketing budget manufacturer like SMOS than what has mostly become a re-seller with Noveske. I want Noveske to succeed but, beyond “street cred” and a logo, it’s more juice than squeeze these days.

n4p226r
17 July 2020, 10:46
SMOS designed and owned rights to the gen 3. Noveske broke with them (don’t know specifics) and SMOS created their GFY acronym as a joke on Noveske, producing the same thing at a much better price. The joke persisted, SMOS made far more than original intended (topped out at 10k sets, I’m told), because people understood Noveske’s marketing was built into their overpricing. Not to mention Noveske’s turnover and self-satisfaction reaching Q pitch. The Noveske PDWs with Q stocks are additional branding turnoff.

SMOS approached us on this forum about interest in their products and many here supported them as early adopters. They took care of us.

So yeah, if you could get a no-nonsense gen 3 for much less, why wouldn’t you? The barrels SMOS continues to turn are top tier. Whether the gen 3 was not as good as gen 2 (forged vs billet) was a moot point on that dispute. Even with SMOS now no longer making the Gen3 with their logo, you can get one in original form from Head Down Arms or from JFE with lightning cuts. That’s why Noveske had to change their cosmetics because their branding of the gen3 was diluted. The changes appear mostly cosmetic with a Mega/Zev touch.

I personally have more trust in the zero-marketing budget manufacturer like SMOS than what has mostly become a re-seller with Noveske. I want Noveske to succeed but, beyond “street cred” and a logo, it’s more juice than squeeze these days.


I can agree with all of that, I was just commenting on the fact that there were people pushing SMOS as a higher quality than the noveske stuff when as best I could tell, it was the same exact stuff. better price point though.

UWone77
17 July 2020, 15:53
I can agree with all of that, I was just commenting on the fact that there were people pushing SMOS as a higher quality than the noveske stuff when as best I could tell, it was the same exact stuff. better price point though.

I never got that impression. I liked SMOS better when Chris was there helping run the show. They've gone away from consumer sales, so they're not as fun now. I thought SMOS got too caught up in the GFY meaning. I personally never thought the GFY's were any better than the Noveske sets they sold them. However, most of my GFY sets are tight as fuck, and would say border line out of spec on some. I recall Sheri rejected a ton of them back in 2014 when I was there several times.

Which goes back to my original point. They should have stuck to barrels. I don't know too many people who were buying Noveske lowers because they were Noveske. They were buying the legendary barrels. However, since Pac Nor has burned to the ground, I'm wondering how that relationship is going forward.

Don't get me wrong, I only wish Noveske the best. I'm just wondering who is left there doing the innovating.

n4p226r
17 July 2020, 17:03
I never got that impression. I liked SMOS better when Chris was there helping run the show. They've gone away from consumer sales, so they're not as fun now. I thought SMOS got too caught up in the GFY meaning. I personally never thought the GFY's were any better than the Noveske sets they sold them. However, most of my GFY sets are tight as fuck, and would say border line out of spec on some. I recall Sheri rejected a ton of them back in 2014 when I was there several times.

Which goes back to my original point. They should have stuck to barrels. I don't know too many people who were buying Noveske lowers because they were Noveske. They were buying the legendary barrels. However, since Pac Nor has burned to the ground, I'm wondering how that relationship is going forward.

Don't get me wrong, I only wish Noveske the best. I'm just wondering who is left there doing the innovating.

The reason I browse this forum more than most forums is because the brand bashing is really not around here. But other forums and even my Instagram feed was full of people that would crap on the noveske name for the lowers being too tight like you said and praising SMOS.


The pac nor thing is interesting. Although whenever change is forced, it opens up another opportunity to improve.

I have 3 noveske currently. All built by myself with almost all noveske and colt parts. 1 each of gen 1,2 and 3. I think at this point I want to find a company that makes milspec lowers with a roll mark I don’t hate and a build up from there. If I ever get another noveske it’ll be a factory SBR but first I need a place out of state to pull that off.

UWone77
17 July 2020, 18:31
If you want live a happy life, definitely stay off of Instagram and Facebook. Too many gun experts on there, telling you what's wrong with every brand. LOL

Going back to Noveske.... I've got a few classics I'll never let go of. Original Afghan and Recon along with an original 14.5 Carbine gas upper, all with the SWS Rail.

Also have a 12.5" Crusader upper on a VIS Poly upper John Noveske put together himself. Can we all just go back to 2008? :)

n4p226r
18 July 2020, 06:09
If you want live a happy life, definitely stay off of Instagram and Facebook. Too many gun experts on there, telling you what's wrong with every brand. LOL

Going back to Noveske.... I've got a few classics I'll never let go of. Original Afghan and Recon along with an original 14.5 Carbine gas upper, all with the SWS Rail.

Also have a 12.5" Crusader upper on a VIS Poly upper John Noveske put together himself. Can we all just go back to 2008? :)

Can we go back to 2008 but keep the rebranded Q stuff? I really like those

UWone77
18 July 2020, 15:20
Speaking of Noveske.

Tons of NHR's, NSR's, and NQR's. No MLOK Stuff though. $89.99 to $99.99

https://www.joeboboutfitters.com/NoveskeMFG-s/186279.htm

Picked up a couple of 7" NQR's

n4p226r
18 July 2020, 18:02
Speaking of Noveske.

Tons of NHR's, NSR's, and NQR's. No MLOK Stuff though. $89.99 to $99.99

https://www.joeboboutfitters.com/NoveskeMFG-s/186279.htm

Picked up a couple of 7" NQR's

Wow. A 9” NQR for $100 and that 10.5” gen 1 SBR for $1250 from wide open armory would make a great noveske’d “Mk18”


If I only lived 20 miles west

UWone77
18 July 2020, 19:09
Wow. A 9” NQR for $100 and that 10.5” gen 1 SBR for $1250 from wide open armory would make a great noveske’d “Mk18”


If I only lived 20 miles west

If I was going to go with a 10.5" Noveske SBR, I'd do the switchblock. It's great suppressed. I should break mine out more often.

n4p226r
20 July 2020, 14:27
all this talk about SBRs I can't own and Noveske innovating or not and here I am drooling over a carry handle noveske I can't legally own or afford.

https://www.blackanklemunitions.com/products/dead-air-noveske-heat-model-colt-733-enhanced-clone-package/

UWone77
20 July 2020, 16:15
all this talk about SBRs I can't own and Noveske innovating or not and here I am drooling over a carry handle noveske I can't legally own or afford.

https://www.blackanklemunitions.com/products/dead-air-noveske-heat-model-colt-733-enhanced-clone-package/

Believe me, I feel your pain about SBR's. We've only been allowed to have them in the last 6-7 years here in my state. Once they opened the door, I went crazy with the stamps.

mustangfreek
21 July 2020, 01:18
Speaking of Noveske.

Tons of NHR's, NSR's, and NQR's. No MLOK Stuff though. $89.99 to $99.99

https://www.joeboboutfitters.com/NoveskeMFG-s/186279.htm

Picked up a couple of 7" NQR's

Dang it...oos on the 7’s...was kinda throwing it around for a future shorty 300 upper...snooze ya loose I guess.....lol

Was also Kinda looking at the 11” NQR’s , want to build a 12.5” someday...ahhh...I dont really need more projects...But a decent deal...lol....

[BD][:D]

UWone77
21 July 2020, 09:50
Dang it...oos on the 7’s...was kinda throwing it around for a future shorty 300 upper...snooze ya loose I guess.....lol

Was also Kinda looking at the 11” NQR’s , want to build a 12.5” someday...ahhh...I dont really need more projects...But a decent deal...lol....

[BD][:D]

The 7" NHR wouldn't be too bad...

n4p226r
21 July 2020, 11:44
I couldn't pass it up. I went with a 11" NQR for my next build. I almost went with the NSR-SD but didn't want to go with keymod as I want to change over to mlok on my 2 rifles currently with keymod.

so now I just need to decide if I want to go with a 14" barrel with a pinned brake or 16" barrel either unthreaded or with a pinned brake

anyone have any good pics of a 11" quad rail on a 16" gun?

Jumpmaster
21 August 2020, 18:36
My safe queen is a 2012 Afghan switchblock. Being in 1SFG at the time, I called Johnny and told him what I needed. 2 days later Johnny called to tell me he built it himself. That was cool. It is the only rifle that isn't cerakoted or rattle canned. Left it black in remembrance of Johnny.

BoilerUp
21 August 2020, 18:40
My safe queen is a 2012 Afghan switchblock. Being in 1SFG at the time, I called Johnny and told him what I needed. 2 days later Johnny called to tell me he built it himself. That was cool. It is the only rifle that isn't cerakoted or rattle canned. Left it black in remembrance of Johnny.

We like pictures on this forum. Sounds like a nice rifle and a weapon with a backstory like that is special. Would love to see it.

mustangfreek
22 August 2020, 01:12
Ya..what he said

We like pics...[:D]

Joelski
22 August 2020, 09:34
Believe me, I feel your pain about SBR's. We've only been allowed to have them in the last 6-7 years here in my state. Once they opened the door, I went crazy with the stamps.

You, crazy on SBR's? Naaaah!!

:D

UWone77
22 August 2020, 15:32
You, crazy on SBR's? Naaaah!!

:D

Heh... I know, I should have paid for a FFL/SOT. Maybe if I get my house construction off the ground and plan a shop next year, I'll do it.

Jumpmaster
23 August 2020, 16:04
We like pictures on this forum. Sounds like a nice rifle and a weapon with a backstory like that is special. Would love to see it.

Ok here she is.

Aragorn
23 August 2020, 17:46
So awesome.

n4p226r
24 August 2020, 06:43
that is pretty awesome.

I miss the gen 2 line of lowers. the best stuff they put out in my opinion. it's a shame the end of the run of those had so many issues with fitment as they did. kinda makes it hard to pick one up on the secondary market. mine is real tight to the upper, to the point where I need a tool to push out the takedown pins, but other than that its great.
Ok here she is.

mustangfreek
25 August 2020, 00:17
Rad rifle you got there

Damnit..Hard times came about and had to sell my gen 2 Johnny era pieces out build a few years back..Softest shooting rifle..That’s the one I miss most out of the 30-40 guns I’ve sent down the road

Good lookin rifle and story jumpmaster