14.5 complete rifle... bcm/DD/spikes?

[hkdcamcain]

I am currently in the market for a complete*rifle. Something name brand, history of good weapon systems, reliable and most of all a warranty. I own several AR15s, mostly builds of my own but I'm looking to get into some shooting classes and I want something reliable and dependable for that as well as defense.*
I'm selling my old M1A and a converted saiga to cut down on so many different systems and ammos. Anyway, long story short, 3 rifles have caught my attention.*

Desired specs:*
Free float*
14.5 barrel (preferably govt profile as I'm unsure of LW)*
Mid gas
Decent trigger*
Flat top (no fixed sights)*
Reliable and vetted system*
Pricing around 2k is acceptable*
DI gas*
Pinned brake*
Customer service (in case)*


Spikes Tactical: (Black Assassin)*
http://www.spikestactical.com/st-black-assassin-556-145-16oal-p-918.html*

Daniel Defense: (DDM4 V11 slw)*
https://danieldefense.com/firearms/mid-length/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v11-slw-1439.html?SID=4bajmnkv52s16q3r5kbslh02h2*

BCM: (HSP Jack Carbine)*
http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/TheJack/*

I cannot find any reasoning in which*rifle*to choose over any other*rifle. All companies seem to have their followers and all seem to have excellent reviews. Just trying to get some input on which direction to go.*

Thanks.

[MonkeyBomb]

BCM followed closely by DD.

[Pyzik]

^^Agreed. Between these two, get whichever you are less likely to change the stock & grip on.

[hkdcamcain]

Thanks for the info so far... On the DD rifles the 14.5s seem to only come in LW profiles... Personally I've never had thinner than govt. Any input on the LW profiles? Considering I'm wanting to use it for a defensive carbine and maybe a few other courses containing sustained fire. Wasn't sure how they behave.

[BoilerUp]

How did Spikes get on the same list with BCM and DD?

I vote for the BCM Recce Keymod KMR: http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/carbines/recce_keymod.php

but DD is a close second.

You might want to consider LaRue, too: http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-14.5-predatobr-556

[hkdcamcain]

How did Spikes get on the same list with BCM and DD?

I vote for the BCM Recce Keymod KMR: http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/carbines/recce_keymod.php

but DD is a close second.

You might want to consider LaRue, too: http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-14.5-predatobr-556

Good eye on that BCM rifle, looks to be close to what I want. I'll look a bit more into it. The Jack grabbed my attention with the cerakote, Geissele rail and sights. Plus the training coupon if I managed to utilize it.

Some other forums I follow seem to love the spikes coolaid. Swearing they are just as good or better as any top brands. Again, I don't own one. The NiB bolts and CHF barrels caught my attention.

[DutyUse]

I vote for the BCM Recce Keymod KMR: http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/carbines/recce_keymod.php

+1. For the price I really like the bcm recce's

[Farva]

My money would go to BCM also but I wouldn't go with the Jack. It's a nice looking rifle but to me the price point for what it is just doesn't seem worth it. The link for the BCM rifle BoilerUp posted would be my choice. I have a BCM 14.5" upper and it's been golden. Rebel Arms I think makes a 14.5 and I've heard good things on them as well.

[Pyzik]

My money would go to BCM also but I wouldn't go with the Jack. It's a nice looking rifle but to me the price point for what it is just doesn't seem worth it. The link for the BCM rifle BoilerUp posted would be my choice. I have a BCM 14.5" upper and it's been golden. Rebel Arms I think makes a 14.5 and I've heard good things on them as well.

I too, personally would choose a different BCM than the Jack. And actually between the Jack the DD posted I'd probably choose the DD after looking at them some more.

[BoilerUp]

Nothing really wrong with Spikes, but I'd never pay a premium price for one. That looks like a $900 gun to me.

I personally really like the configuration of that BCM Recce Keymod. The only thing I would even think about switching out is the trigger group and muzzle device. To preserve that flexibility, I would recommend you go with a 16" over a 14.5". Not that you can't change out a pinned/welded muzzle device, but it's obviously harder.

The Recce has a BCM SS barrel whereas the Jack appears to have a standard mil-spec barrel. I'm surprised it doesn't have the CHF BCM barrel. I don't think BCM even offers their SS barrel in 14.5" separately. Those BCM SS barrels have a rep for excellent accuracy. The ALG is only a $45 trigger and one I'd likely still end up replacing. The Geissele hand guard is good. For the Jack, you're paying extra for the cerakote, the weapon light, and for Haley's logo which I'd probably put duct tape over anyway.

I'm a big fan of the BCM Gunfighter accessories, too, so I love the pistol grip. I don't have the stock yet but will be using one on my next build just because I know BCM really thinks through their designs. I do have a B5 Sopmod (like is on the Jack) and those are very good stocks - great cheek weld. And I like the Gunfighter Charging handles.

I think many on this forum support the view that the BCM BCG is the gold standard. Daniel Defense, IMO, hangs right there with them, though.

Note that there is a Light Weight version of the KeyMod Recce that uses the KMR made from the lighter weight alloy instead of the KMR-Alpha which is Aluminum.

Also, I think BCM recently changed their naming/branding of the Recce series. The Recce with the SS barrel used to be the "Recce KMR Precision" http://www.rainierarms.com/rifle-bcm-recce-16-kmr-precision

That DD V11 is a quality rifle. I'm not a big fan of the DD pistol grip/stock, so there is $80 I'd spend. I'm also less than thrilled with DD handguards. I think they've fallen behind in innovation here. The SLIM rail on the v11 looks pretty good, though. Might want to consider the base V11 so you get the standard profile barrel if you don't want a LW barrel. https://danieldefense.com/firearms/mid-length/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v11.html

IMO, the barrel should be one of the driving factors for your decision. I wouldn't buy a gun where I felt I'd need/want to swap out the barrel. Of the 3 you listed, only the DD has what I consider to be a premium barrel, but in a LW profile. After that, it's like Pyzik says, buy the one with the fewest/cheapest parts you'll be swapping.

[UWone77]

I think it's been covered several times already, I would go with the BCM, but not the Jack, unless you really want the disruptive gray cerakote or you're Centerfire14.

Seriously, I'd go with a Blem BCM Cosmo Lower to save some cash.

Then get a factory BCM upper of your choice. I've got a 14.5" Midlength KMR upper with a pinned BCM Comp that I'd recommend if you're set on 14.5"

[Joelski]

RECCE seems to be the hot ticket right now (resists urge to post pic... Ergh!). I will say definitely check out the 14.5" BCM RECCE. No matter which one you pick, you gotta look at it more than you shoot it; the new DD furniture is nauseating, IMO. Anyway, check out the mid-length gas; it makes the rifle handle smoother and IMO, eliminates the buffer fiddling unless you're into that sort of thing.

[hkdcamcain]

For the record, this forum is miles above arf... Lol no one wants to actually talk about the useful info.

Anyways, I'm looking at the recce in 14.5. Watching videos etc.
My reasoning is my most fired ar15 is a Barrett Rec7 through my job. I like the geiselle trigger it has, but I'd never buy one. For some reason the Jack reminds me of it. On 2 of my last builds I used the ALG and they are very predictable. Although it's a bit heavy. But in a tense environment (competition, hunting, etc) you don't notice the ALG weight.

The DD rifles would require me to do a custom build for the setup I want. But seeing the SS barrel on the Recce I think I've fallen in love... Plus I can get like 1500-2000 rounds with the money saved over the Jack...

EDIT: looks like the 14.5 barrels are not SS, only the 16 and 18 inch "precision" models. Still fits what I need though.

[Former11B]

How did Spikes get on the same list with BCM and DD?

I vote for the BCM Recce Keymod KMR: http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/carbines/recce_keymod.php

but DD is a close second.

You might want to consider LaRue, too: http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-14.5-predatobr-556

lol, gonna hurt Luis' feelings talking about Spikes like that


I'm not a fan of MLOK but Daniel Defense, I would say, makes better rails and mounting methods than a lot of places out there. Very firm, very solid, and better than quite a few of the OEM/in house offerings by some top shelf names

[Farva]

RECCE seems to be the hot ticket right now (resists urge to post pic... Ergh!). I will say definitely check out the 14.5" BCM RECCE. No matter which one you pick, you gotta look at it more than you shoot it; the new DD furniture is nauseating, IMO. Anyway, check out the mid-length gas; it makes the rifle handle smoother and IMO, eliminates the buffer fiddling unless you're into that sort of thing.

As somewhat odd looking as the DD furniture is its grippy as hell! I fondled one of my LT's rifle that has it on it and it almost won't let go of you.

[Joelski]

May I ask, if you've already completed several of your own builds, why buy OEM?

[BoilerUp]

EDIT: looks like the 14.5 barrels are not SS, only the 16 and 18 inch "precision" models. Still fits what I need though.

I must have been switching views around as I thought I saw a Recce 14 w/ SS barrel, but now I see that isn't the case. Which makes sense since they don't sell a 14.5 SS barrel.

This looks like a fantastic rifle: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-RECCE-16-KMR-A-Precision-FULL-PURCHASE-p/bcm-rifle-752-790.htm

I think I'll clone the 18" for my SPR build.

[nijikon84]

I'm going to have to agree with lots of others.

I have a BCM 14.5 ( bought a complete lower + BCM BFH ELW 14.5 upper ). It's a wonderful shooter and upgraded with a Wilson Combat TTU trigger.

BCM Blem or Non-Blem Complete lower is the ticket + your choice of BCM 14.5 upper if you want a BCM.

However, if you're looking at spending a decent chunk, I'd give a hard look at a KAC SR-15. It has the softest shooting gas system + probably the best flip up micro sights.

For me, if money wasn't a consideration here would be the 3 5.56 guns I'd be looking at:

1. KAC SR-15 Mod2 ( I have a complete KAC Mod 2 14.5 gun, just a disclaimer )

2. LaRue PredatOBR 5.56

3. BCM / DD Defense gun

If money were an issue, I'd look at the following:

1. BCM / DD

2. Sionics

3. PWS

[hkdcamcain]

Personally I don't care for KAC, at the price point I feel there are better options. As for the Larue... Drool but I'd never shoot it, I'd only stare lovingly at it.

I've built several ARs but its always a degree of trial and error and I want a reliable name brand weapon system I can depend on. Here are a few of my builds.
First ever ar15: PSA middy kit
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h394/Cam_Cain/2012-06-25_18-10-11_798.jpg (http://s1107.photobucket.com/user/Cam_Cain/media/2012-06-25_18-10-11_798.jpg.html)

Second AR15: CQ build (also mostly PSA) bipod was for zeroing only
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h394/Cam_Cain/2013-02-13_15-40-20_798_zps62982b0e.jpg (http://s1107.photobucket.com/user/Cam_Cain/media/2013-02-13_15-40-20_798_zps62982b0e.jpg.html)

Third: KISS / Service Style build
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h394/Cam_Cain/20141212_100454_zpsis2daojv.jpg (http://s1107.photobucket.com/user/Cam_Cain/media/20141212_100454_zpsis2daojv.jpg.html)

Some more recent ones, a twin to my kiss I built for a friend on the left, and my SPR on the right. The SPR was the most expensive build I've done and is damn accurate.
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h394/Cam_Cain/20141219_150837_zpsifsjci25.jpg (http://s1107.photobucket.com/user/Cam_Cain/media/20141219_150837_zpsifsjci25.jpg.html)

[nijikon84]

I wasn't a big KAC fan, but after owning Noveske, LaRue, BCM, and DD guns, KAC is probably at the top for me.

Fit and Finish: Not gonna lie here, it's nothing special. Standard Milspec stuff. Upper / Lower fit is just ok and the anodizing seems to chip / flake about the same as other mid-tier guns.

Accuracy: It's good to great. SR15s with a chrome lined chrome moly barrel is about a 1moa or better shooter with match ammo.

Reliability / Durability: This gun just runs and runs and runs. Ballistic Radio had a 20k torture tested/abused SR15 Mod2. End of the test? Still 1MOA edge to edge shooter.

Innovation: Intermediate Gas System, pretty much only one for a 14.5 barrel ( Standard Mid is 9.8 inches, KAC Intermediate is 11.1 inches ). It makes for a much smoother recoil impulse. I haven't had much issue with brass cased FMJ. I think they opened the gas ports with the Mod1 so people are running steel cased stuff without issues. Beyond that, the Mod2 also has a non-tapered gas tube and castle nut secured gas block, no other ARs are running anything similar.

Add that with the fact you get full ambi controls, 2 stage match trigger, LMT Sopmod, and KAC Micro BUIS. This to me is a better deal than the Spike's rifle or BCM Jack Carbine you linked.

[hkdcamcain]

The KAC rifles don't have adjustable gas systems do they? The barret rifles also use a castle nut and proprietary piston system on them. I thought it was an interesting system I'd never seen before. Interesting KAC has it too. The issue I'm seeing with KAC is most of the system is proprietary. Plus swinging the extra 400-500$ for something I can only use KAC parts with, which is same as the Larue proprietary system.

Seeing as KAC is a contract company how is their CS to the little people?
(still eying the BCM middy too)

[nijikon84]

The KAC rifles don't have adjustable gas systems do they? The barret rifles also use a castle nut and proprietary piston system on them. I thought it was an interesting system I'd never seen before. Interesting KAC has it too. The issue I'm seeing with KAC is most of the system is proprietary. Plus swinging the extra 400-500$ for something I can only use KAC parts with, which is same as the Larue proprietary system.

Seeing as KAC is a contract company how is their CS to the little people?
(still eying the BCM middy too)

Yeah, I understand the dislike towards proprietary systems. I also was against getting a system that did not have interchangeable parts at first.

My thought on that subject is that KAC rifles are tested to 20-25k+ rounds without much issue to the barrel or bolt. If you go through that many rounds, the ammo alone is worth a few rifles.

Their CS is excellent, I know on arfcom on the KAC sub forum there was a post about offering a re-barrel if someone actually shot out their barrel past 20k rounds? Don't quote me though!

You can't go wrong with BCM though. This is a setup similar to mine:

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-14-5-Mid-Length-ENHANCED-Light-Weight-p/bcm-urg-mid-14bfh-elw-kmr-a-13.htm
http://www.rainierarms.com/bcm-cosmo-lower-group-w-mod-0-stock-black

[Deadwing]

Echoing what others have already said, buy a complete BCM lower and finish it off with the BCM upper of your choice. That'll save you some coin in sales tax as well since you can buy the upper online. BCM builds a solid product that'll take use and abuse and keep on running.

Nothing wrong with Spike's, as i was able to build a Spike's rifle from parts (Spike's FN made CHF barrel w/ pinned GB, forged receivers, phosphate BCG, and LPK) to be used as a loaner/beater gun for about $750. No way i'd spend almost $2k on a complete Spike's rifle when you could have the KAC for a few hundred more, or a BCM for a few hundred less.

As for KAC's customer service, i've never bought a rifle from them. But, i have purchased several rail systems direct from them. Aside from a long wait on hold, which is common just about everywhere these days, I found their CS to be efficient, friendly, and professional.

[UWone77]

I own 2 KAC SR15 Mod 0's. I'd take those over any other 2k rifle on the market today.... and since it's Sunday, twice today. [BD]

Seriously, if you look around, there is no better deal for a rifle as you can find SR15's for 2k or less. On a Mod 0 you get:

KAC 2 Stage Match Trigger
LMT SOPMOD Stock
Full Ambi Controls
URX Handguards w/rail panels/VFG
E3 Bolt (KAC has never had one break commercially last I checked)
KAC Sights

Once you break it down, it's actually a pretty damn good value. If I was looking for a SR15 right now, I'd go for a Mod 1, as I like the URX 3.1 over the URX2

[Deadwing]

.... and since it's Sunday, twice today. [BD]

LOL

[nijikon84]

I own 2 KAC SR15 Mod 0's. I'd take those over any other 2k rifle on the market today.... and since it's Sunday, twice today. [BD]

Seriously, if you look around, there is no better deal for a rifle as you can find SR15's for 2k or less. On a Mod 0 you get:

KAC 2 Stage Match Trigger
LMT SOPMOD Stock
Full Ambi Controls
URX Handguards w/rail panels/VFG
E3 Bolt (KAC has never had one break commercially last I checked)
KAC Sights

Once you break it down, it's actually a pretty damn good value. If I was looking for a SR15 right now, I'd go for a Mod 1, as I like the URX 3.1 over the URX2

Pretty much this.

I didn't want to come off as a KAC fanboi. I do own the other premium/boutique brands, but the combination of innovation, quality, reliability, and durability of a KAC is REALLY hard to beat for the price.

I'd personally recommend a Mod 2 because of the improved gas system, but the Mod 1 is definitely awesome.

My old go to Rifle was the BCM 14.5. The KAC Mod 2 is my definite go to rifle now, hands down. With match ammo, I've hit 10-12 inch plates off bipod @ 600 yards with 90% accuracy. I have a MAMS on it and with the intermediate gas system, rapid strings of fire is effortless. The intermediate gas system feels different, period. I've had multiple people at the range try my gun, they all agree that it is much smoother and softer recoil.

[hkdcamcain]

Damnit.
For the record some of you should be in sales...
The more reviews and videos I watch the more I'm looking at the KAC.

BTW that 20k+ made cringe as it progressed.
But I'm not surprised, I have a 1911 with 4k rounds zero failures and I hear that's impossible too... How effective are the BUIS considering they are ranged sights but mounted on all different lengths.... ?

And how complex is the stripping of KAC rifle? Special tools?

[nijikon84]

Damnit.
For the record some of you should be in sales...
The more reviews and videos I watch the more I'm looking at the KAC.

BTW that 20k+ made cringe as it progressed.
But I'm not surprised, I have a 1911 with 4k rounds zero failures and I hear that's impossible too... How effective are the BUIS considering they are ranged sights but mounted on all different lengths.... ?

And how complex is the stripping of KAC rifle? Special tools?

Few points.

I have a Wilson Combat CQB Elite and SA TRP. Both have been absolutely flawless! I love 1911s big time also.

The BUIS is the best on the market to me. I've used Troys, Diamond Heads, and Magpul Pros ( I own the Troys and Pros ). If I had a chance, I'd switch over every gun to the KAC Micro BUIS. My buddy bought a set. He was nailing steel plates on a bench without rest, bipod, or bag at 300-400 yards with bulk 55gr FMJ. They're that awesome to use.

As far as stripping down the KAC rifle, do you use mean like a strip and clean? If so, it's the same as another AR15. The KAC Upper will fit and work with any AR15 lower, same with the upper ( take into consideration the appropriate carbine buffer + spring ). Stripping down the BCG and cleaning is also the same. I do believe that you can use a regular BCG with the E3 extension in a pinch ( I believe this is correct, it might be the other way around ) but it's not recommended for extended use.

I'd think about it this way:

LMT Sopmod stock's are pretty much my favorite. No wobble, super tight lockup, storage ( I don't care for this), and my favorite cheek weld out of all collapsible AR15 stocks.
Knight's 2 Stage Match Trigger is heavy enough to be a good duty/patrol rifle, but since it's split into 2 stages, you can still do precision shooting by prepping to the wall. The only competitor would be any gun that comes with a Geissele or LaRue trigger. Milspec triggers, even quality ones like the ALG QMS/ACT can't compare.
Ambi Controls. People spend a good chunk of money on BAD levers, and Battle Arms ambi safeties. You get all that AND an ambi mag release that's built into the lower ( also comes with a nice integrated QD socket plate )
Best BUIS in the market like previously talked about
Accurate and durable Bolt and Chrome Lined barrel
Softest shooting but highly reliable gas system

If you look around for a good deal or used deal, a full rifle can be had for $1600-1800 range.

[hkdcamcain]

Few points.

I have a Wilson Combat CQB Elite and SA TRP. Both have been absolutely flawless! I love 1911s big time also.

The BUIS is the best on the market to me. I've used Troys, Diamond Heads, and Magpul Pros ( I own the Troys and Pros ). If I had a chance, I'd switch over every gun to the KAC Micro BUIS. My buddy bought a set. He was nailing steel plates on a bench without rest, bipod, or bag at 300-400 yards with bulk 55gr FMJ. They're that awesome to use.

As far as stripping down the KAC rifle, do you use mean like a strip and clean? If so, it's the same as another AR15. The KAC Upper will fit and work with any AR15 lower, same with the upper ( take into consideration the appropriate carbine buffer + spring ). Stripping down the BCG and cleaning is also the same. I do believe that you can use a regular BCG with the E3 extension in a pinch ( I believe this is correct, it might be the other way around ) but it's not recommended for extended use.

I'd think about it this way:

LMT Sopmod stock's are pretty much my favorite. No wobble, super tight lockup, storage ( I don't care for this), and my favorite cheek weld out of all collapsible AR15 stocks.
Knight's 2 Stage Match Trigger is heavy enough to be a good duty/patrol rifle, but since it's split into 2 stages, you can still do precision shooting by prepping to the wall. The only competitor would be any gun that comes with a Geissele or LaRue trigger. Milspec triggers, even quality ones like the ALG QMS/ACT can't compare.
Ambi Controls. People spend a good chunk of money on BAD levers, and Battle Arms ambi safeties. You get all that AND an ambi mag release that's built into the lower ( also comes with a nice integrated QD socket plate )
Best BUIS in the market like previously talked about
Accurate and durable Bolt and Chrome Lined barrel
Softest shooting but highly reliable gas system

If you look around for a good deal or used deal, a full rifle can be had for $1600-1800 range.

I have a SA TRP (nonrailed armory kote) and an old MC Operator, they have both been spectacular. The MC mags had some issues. Can't say I've had the pleasure of owning a Wilson Combat however.

As for the KAC questions, I was curious about the full disassemble, gas system etc for cleaning. Since it uses some non standard design I was wondering if usual methods like the pipe cleaners would work. I think it's mostly paranoia that I'd buy a nonstandard system and have issues out the box.

Hopefully I can get a decent penny from selling off a few of my toys I don't want anymore.

[mustangfreek]

Never had a 14.5" but it's on the list..

Anyways, I think BCM is the way to go unless some rant deal pops up for Black Friday

[hkdcamcain]

Apparently it's a pain to find any 14.5 KAC rifles in stock anywhere.... Been looking online for a site that even has any to get a quote

[DutyUse]

Apparently it's a pain to find any 14.5 KAC rifles in stock anywhere.... Been looking online for a site that even has any to get a quote

Try boltcarrier.com I know they stock a lot of KAC gear

[GOST]

http://www.smallarmsales.com/knights-armament-sr-15-e3-sbr-mod-2-gun-14-5/

[hkdcamcain]

http://www.smallarmsales.com/knights-armament-sr-15-e3-sbr-mod-2-gun-14-5/

Anyone familiar with this site? I've never heard of it

[nijikon84]

Anyone familiar with this site? I've never heard of it

Yes, they're the FFL holders for their sister site Operation Parts, one of the largest KAC dealers.

[Vel]

For $2300 I'd expect a lot more rifle than that. To add my $.02 in, the route I would take is the BCM RECCE 16 Precision for $1600, add the KAC sights for ~$200 depending on what deal you get on ebay and call her a day.

The SR-15 deal on that site I'm willing to bet comes with the same patriot case you can get on Rainier for $70 with a different sticker on it. They're just up-charging it.

That puts you around $1900 with cash for ammo.

Recoil is really a non issue in my mind, it's a 5.56...

[nijikon84]

For $2300 I'd expect a lot more rifle than that. To add my $.02 in, the route I would take is the BCM RECCE 16 Precision for $1600, add the KAC sights for ~$200 depending on what deal you get on ebay and call her a day.

The SR-15 deal on that site I'm willing to bet comes with the same patriot case you can get on Rainier for $70 with a different sticker on it. They're just up-charging it.

That puts you around $1900 with cash for ammo.

Recoil is really a non issue in my mind, it's a 5.56...

Just an FYI, he's looking for a 14.5 Rifle.

Also, a BCM Recce 16 seems to be a bad deal. Why?

You can buy a BCM Complete Blem lower for $350 and a BCM 16" 410SS Complete Upper Group with BCG + Gunfighter CH for $800 http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SS410-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-w-B-p/bcm-urg-mid16-ss410-kmr-a-15ib.htm

That's $1150 for the same exact rifle. Add in $125-225 for sights of your choice and even a match trigger, you'd still be at or under the price of the complete rifle. BCM doesn't do matched receivers, so buying a complete rifle doesn't do much.

I own both a KAC 14.5 Mod2 and BCM lower + BCM BFH 14.5 ELW complete upper. The KAC is my go to rifle, hands down.

1600 + 200 gets your BCM Recce 16 + KAC sights off eBay, sure. What about a match trigger? KAC has a 2 stage Match, the BCM has a milspec or milspec like trigger ( QMS / ACT ). Buying a comparable Geissele will run you close to $200. Now you're at about 2,000. The KAC also has dedicated Ambi Controls, you'd need to buy a BAD Lever + Ambi Safety + Ambi Mag Release. Add those 3 together and you're close to 2,100+, the KAC also comes with a LMT Sopmod which is $200 vs the $55 dollar BCM Gunfighter Stock. All things taken into consideration, it's an excellent gun when you consider all those upgrades.

What you can't get with the BCM ( Intermediate Gas System, Mod 2 non-taper gas system, E3 Bolt ) is a bigger reason to me on picking the KAC over the aforementioned upgrades above.

[voodoo_man]

http://www.smallarmsales.com/knights-armament-sr-15-e3-sbr-mod-2-gun-14-5/

this.

[hkdcamcain]

So, for the record... I'm hesitant on the 14.5 at this point due to pinned muzzle device. Given how light the 16 inch KAC is I may lean that direction so I can use my choice of muzzle accessory.

I'm surprised how hard it is to find these things too... Only a handful of sites even stock them. It's pretty crazy. I'm guessing I won't notice the extra 1.5 inches.

[voodoo_man]

SR15 ftw. Do it.

[nijikon84]

https://www.boltcarrier.com/product/knights-armament-sr-15-e3-mod2-carbine

https://www.boltcarrier.com/product/sr-15-e3-mod-2-m-lok

listen to voodoo.

DO IT.

[UWone77]

I got both of mine used for $1600 and $1700 respectively. One has a triple tap as well. I'd look at the used boards on other sites.

[schambers]

Hodge is building a good reputation and you can probably find one in the ballpark of the price you are looking at.

https://dsgarms.com/rifle-platforms-ar15-hodge-defense

[Joelski]

So, for the record... I'm hesitant on the 14.5 at this point due to pinned muzzle device. Given how light the 16 inch KAC is I may lean that direction so I can use my choice of muzzle accessory.

I'm surprised how hard it is to find these things too... Only a handful of sites even stock them. It's pretty crazy. I'm guessing I won't notice the extra 1.5 inches.

That 1.5" less barrel swing is not worth having to run to a gunsmith to get the muzzle device changed.

[voodoo_man]

Hodge is building a good reputation and you can probably find one in the ballpark of the price you are looking at.

https://dsgarms.com/rifle-platforms-ar15-hodge-defense

Since i have an sr15 already id probably get a hodge, but an sr15 first

[MIDGAPATRIOT]

BCM followed closely by DD.

I voted BCM, but this also.

[DutyUse]

I vote Hodge or KAC followed up by a DD or BCM.

Like others have said you'll never notice the difference between a 14.5 and 16 other then the inconvenience.

[velocity2006]

If I already had several AR's and was not interested in building anymore I would probably look at something more exotic like a SCAR or Tavor than spending more than 1800 on a factory built AR pattern rifle.

[jwhyte]

I'll vote BCM, and i should be ordering mine in the next week or so. Bcm complete lower with elw16 inch barrel with kmr-alpha. Can't beat the price point at just over $1100.
I'm going 16 only because it saves the headache and added cost of pinning the 14.5 in barrel.

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