Hello! Tlaloc's experiment. [Archive]

Tlaloc

22 November 2015, 23:58

Hi there,

This is my first post here and I kinda wanted to get straight down to business ;) I recently moved to WA from Minnesota.

I am working on my second AR build. The requirement is to be light and compact rifle. I am even thinking on going into the SBR route.

I really liked the idea of the the MVB ARC, I like I can pick whatever bolt I'd like.

http://www.theredblender.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/2015_10_17_Rifle_update-1.jpg

What I am finding challenging is the safety and the pivot and take down pins. I had originally bought the 5.56 EZ Push (Enhanced Feature)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81W%2B08TD1vL._SL1500_.jpg

Well the take down pin is too long and doesn't let the side bars rotate to extend. I figure out going with a set of mil-spec colt is the fix.

Now what I really don't like is the safety. I originally wanted to use the BAD Lever. You can see in the pic bellow that the clearance is pretty tight. I am thinking on going with a push button safety selector. (http://www.rainierarms.com/elftmann-tactical-push-button-ambi-speed-safety-pre-order-ship-nov-10-13)

What do you think? Id love to hear your thoughts on the safety selector issue.

Thank you for your time

http://www.theredblender.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/2015_10_17_Rifle_update-2.jpg

DeviantLogic

23 November 2015, 01:33

Welcome aboard! Sorry I can't speak from first hand experience with the Elftmann, but my gut feeling is that I'd still prefer a traditional throw lever. I'm guessing the majority of the time that the stock is collapsed would be for storage and transportation, then when you're ready to fire the stock would be extended...hopefully opening up more room for your thumb. Even with the stock collapsed, it may be a bit tight, but still manageable.

Joelski

23 November 2015, 03:35

B.A.D. just came out with their PDW lower that's essentially the same thing. I'd go with shorties on both sides. I don't think actuation the levers will be a problem for more than a minute first time out. That movement is muscle memory for anybody that shoots, or at least fondles an AR, so you'll figure that out just as easy as realizing the Elftman doesn't have levers every time you use the gun. IOW: I think it'd take longer to relearn the new safety using strictly brain power and not eyeballing.

Sweet build and welcome to the forum!

UWone77

23 November 2015, 06:10

Sorry about your move to WA. [:D]

Quick side note. You won't be able to SBR that in WA on a Form 1 any longer until the language in the law gets cleaned up. Hopefully next legislative session they'll be able to fix it.

So, I wouldn't count on that lower being an SBR anytime soon. Only factory SBR's transferred on Form 4's are allowed currently.

Joelski

23 November 2015, 07:42

I'll give ya fiddy buck for it. ;)

Tlaloc

24 November 2015, 15:35

UWone77

24 November 2015, 17:45

Thanks for your thoughts. I will try a different B. A. D. lever.

The move to Washington isn't bad coming from Minnesota. Wait... So you can only own factory SBRs in Washington state? Now I'm thinking it's a bad move.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

That's correct. The ATF around late April/early May started rejecting Form 1 SBR's. Long story, but that's where we are because of the way the law was originally written. They're not going after current approved Form 1's, but right now a Factory Form 4 is the only way you can do it.

Dstrbdmedic167

24 November 2015, 19:11

That's correct. The ATF around late April/early May started rejecting Form 1 SBR's. Long story, but that's where we are because of the way the law was originally written. They're not going after current approved Form 1's, but right now a Factory Form 4 is the only way you can do it.

So serious question. Could someone go to say rainier with their parts and have rainier build it and file it and then transfer it to you on a form 4 once approved? Technically it's factory built then...

DeviantLogic

24 November 2015, 21:30

So serious question. Could someone go to say rainier with their parts and have rainier build it and file it and then transfer it to you on a form 4 once approved? Technically it's factory built then...

I don't think so...look at footnotes on the Rainier PDW. http://www.rainierarms.com/rainier-arms-ultramatch-pdw-sbr

Dstrbdmedic167

24 November 2015, 21:33

I don't think so...look at footnotes on the Rainier PDW. http://www.rainierarms.com/rainier-arms-ultramatch-pdw-sbr

Interesting.. So according to the red notes at the bottom they made a SBR that can't even be sold now in WA bc of the laws... [crazy]

Note: I'm sure this was in production before those bs laws went into effect...

Stone

24 November 2015, 21:52

I would just put a set of standard milspec TDP's on it and call it a day. The safety shouldn't be an issue since the stock should only be collapsed when its not in use. If it needs to be deployed quickly from storage opening up the stock will just be an added step. Comes with the territory. No offense but unless your going to be running that thing from beneath a trench coat doing PS for some high profile employer its got limited applications.

LHTwist

27 November 2015, 13:49

That's correct. The ATF around late April/early May started rejecting Form 1 SBR's. Long story, but that's where we are because of the way the law was originally written. They're not going after current approved Form 1's, but right now a Factory Form 4 is the only way you can do it.
Are they rejecting app's from every state or just WA?

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

Dstrbdmedic167

27 November 2015, 13:55

Are they rejecting app's from every state or just WA?

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

Just WA...

tact

27 November 2015, 14:22

I have a BAD forged lower, MVB Arc stock, and use the BAD take down pins and BAD ambi safety.......everything works just fine for me.

Tlaloc

28 November 2015, 16:00

I'm in a hate relationship with BAD. They released their stock short after I bought the MVB...

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

Tlaloc

13 December 2015, 09:24

So moving on. I'd like to keep this building versatile. A good range rifle as well as a good posible self defense weapon. Any recommendations for the trigger group? I understand the difference between single and double stages but I'm still unsure which route is best. I'm looking to spend between $200_300 on it.

GOST

13 December 2015, 10:34

That price gives you a lot of options. Some prefer a 2 stage for precision and single for CQB. To me it's just a personal preference thing, so you need to buy both.[BD] My favorite Geissele triggers are their SD-E and SD-3G, I really like their flat bows. Geissele has a 15% off sale going on, but it ends tonight.

https://geissele.com/triggers.html

GOST

13 December 2015, 10:37

Primary Arms is also running a 20% off sale on Geissele products.

http://www.primaryarms.com/geissele-automatics/c/brand_1001_74/

GOST

13 December 2015, 11:02

If you want a single you may want to checkout Hiperfire.

https://www.rainierarms.com/catalogsearch/advanced/result/?manufacturer[]=287

DeviantLogic

13 December 2015, 11:06

I prefer the feel/ergonomics of flat trigger bows as well. Just put in a Geissele Super Tricon...really like it.

Tlaloc

21 January 2016, 21:37

Hello,

Thank you for all your thoughts regarding triggers. I kind of got sidetracked on my build and ended up getting an upper instead. So here is where we are at. Im looking to get the trigger and bolt catch fixings in the next few weeks.

371

cjd3

21 January 2016, 21:56

Looking like a great start. I am super happy with my Forward Controls ABC-RF bolt catch. The added area and angle works very well. You can't go wrong with a Geissele trigger like their G2S.

Tlaloc

22 January 2016, 13:00

I had ordered one and came in today. Its a bute!

373

Duffy

11 February 2016, 08:32

UWone77

11 February 2016, 11:37

Thank you guys, I'm glad you like the ABC/R ;) Though designed for use with ambi mag catches that obscure a standard bolt catch's lower paddle, the ABC/R's features (angled and easy to reach paddles) are just as useful without an ambi mag catch.

RE: the pins you posted on first page, I thought they looked like the BAD-EPS (my name is on the utility patent for the EPS, along with my former partner at Battle Arms), then realized they were a blatant knock off. They didn't even do a decent job of ripping it off [crazy]

Nice catch Roger! I didn't even notice that they were knockoffs until you mentioned it, and I had to look again. I think the EPS pins are pretty much a must going forward for any build. Great job on that patent by the way.

Duffy

11 February 2016, 12:01

Thanks Richard, the patents (two) haven't been published yet, but we loathe cloners any time of the day :D

SINNER

11 February 2016, 17:12

First thing I noticed were those pins were copies then I get to the second page and see the comments. I hate that BS and go out of my way not to purchase from companies producing blatant ripoffs.

Josh S.

11 February 2016, 17:18

What's the saying? "Often imitated, never duplicated"? Fits pretty well here...

urhero

11 February 2016, 17:28

Just WA...
You could always give the lower to someone on your trust that's out of state, form 1 it at their address and then after it's approved form 20 to your WA address.

I brought a couple into the state on form 20 a few months back when I moved here.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

EO3

11 February 2016, 21:31

Thanks Richard, the patents (two) haven't been published yet, but we loathe cloners any time of the day :D

Don't you know imitation (well, an attempt, in this case) is the highest form of flattery? [:D]

Duffy

17 February 2016, 07:59

In the early days (2011 or so) when I saw Airsoft copies, I was somewhat amused that apparently our stuff was thought well enough to be copied. They couldn't be used on real ARs, still they were unlicensed copies without any of our input and quality control.

BAD wasn't the first one to have fully detachable levers, it was the first to offer different levers for both sides. Over the years the number of levers went from 3 in 2010 to 8 in 2014, it was mostly a customer driven, ongoing improvement project. When companies like Ares Armor, Defense Package, and American Defense started to make selectors and levers that look like ours, in some cases we were fooled, it stopped being complimentary. ADM's levers are the most similar, almost identical to the original.

I have no problem with AXTS and Seekins, they went through the troubles of making their levers look different.

Tlaloc

19 February 2016, 12:45

How sad. I mostly bought them based an accessibility and price. I didn't noticed that they were a knockoff of something.

Duffy

22 February 2016, 07:58

If I was still at Battle Arms, I'd send you the real deal to replace the ones you have. I informed my former partner at BAD about this company, we'll see how they react.

There are ways to do this right. If they like the design so much, they should have approached us to obtain an agreement to produce licensed copies.

Does their pivot pin have a secondary groove and detent hole (the secondary groove that terminates in a hole is extended almost to the tip of the pin) to facilitate installation? That part was also patent pending. The extra groove and detent hole, together with a tiny magnet (included in the BAD-EPS) make installing the pivot pin an easy job, without a pusher tool.

Tlaloc

3 February 2017, 21:23

Hi there,

Has anybody heard of Cobratac? They have this pretty slim rail (https://www.cobratac.com/collections/01a-free-float-quad-rails/products/cobratac-ultra-quad-3-gun-series-free-float-hand-guard-system) i've been eyeballing for a while. I feel like just ordering it anyways since its pretty cheap.

Tlaloc

11 February 2017, 13:13

It's here!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170211/9b6ca17ff0e7778e805b0df46606dc45.jpg

UWone77

11 February 2017, 14:37

Looks very similar to the Parallax Extrusion.

Tlaloc

11 February 2017, 18:29

Yeah! I really liked that Raul but it seemed like Parallax doesn't make it anymore.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

Tlaloc

11 February 2017, 18:57

So the rail was $81 shipped and after taxes. Overall I think is worth that and more. It came with a barrel nut and good Al hex key.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170212/4f3072de7485a53c86a3e2c0a60c445c.jpg

The color and rail margins don't exactly match my Rainier upper, but I'm not building a safe queen.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170212/4bfb2102987777e29a56428212c3116e.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170212/28b04510be77d18c074ba4b808c38c0e.jpg

Overall I'm pretty happy with how it feels when handled. I'm thinking that maybe the trigger guard might be a little too much for this minimalistic build.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170212/20767341ac8eb93765aa47986f4c9f07.jpg