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BoilerUp
10 December 2015, 22:38
My SPR-ish build is finally coming to fruition. I picked up a WOA 18" SPR barrel and Geissele SD-E during the Black Friday sales.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-6GBCRxx/0/XL/i-6GBCRxx-XL.jpg

Receivers are Mega. BCM gunfighter furniture on the lower. ALG EMR V2 handguard for now, potentially to be replaced by either the BCM KMR or Mega Wedgelock in the future. The only issue so far was it took some abrasives and elbow grease to fit the gas block to the WOA barrel. Apparently WOA has a reputation for being a bit oversize on the gas journal. That was a little annoying but a brake cylinder hone helped quite a bit.

I've got a Vortex Viper HS LR 2.5-10x32 that I should be able to mount once my Bobro shows up next week then I'll take her for a spin.

GOST
11 December 2015, 04:48
That's a nice looking rifle, looking forward to hearing how she shoots. Next time for match grade barrels you may want to consider a Rainier Arms low profile match grade gas block. These gas blocks are specifically made to fit match grade barrels.

https://www.rainierarms.com/rainier-arms-low-profile-match-grade-gas-block-8042

Former11B
11 December 2015, 10:43
Nice!

Walmart sells Rustoleum flat camo spray paint for the finishing touches. [:D]

BoilerUp
11 December 2015, 21:05
That's a nice looking rifle, looking forward to hearing how she shoots. Next time for match grade barrels you may want to consider a Rainier Arms low profile match grade gas block. These gas blocks are specifically made to fit match grade barrels.

https://www.rainierarms.com/rainier-arms-low-profile-match-grade-gas-block-8042

Thank you. I'll post updates after I get her to the range next weekend. Yes, I learned of that Rainier "match" gas block after hitting the initial snag. None in stock, though and I had already purchased the Geissele Super Block during the PA Black Friday sale. Once I started honing it I didn't really want to give up as I figure I'm more or less ruined it for use on other builds. After I've validated the build I'll probably have someone with the proper tooling pin the gas block for me.

BoilerUp
11 December 2015, 21:06
Nice!

Walmart sells Rustoleum flat camo spray paint for the finishing touches. [:D]

I have to admit that despite really wanting to do that, I can't quite bring myself to rattle can any of my builds. Some day I'll either get over it or use it as an excuse to build one just for painting! I'm handy with an airbrush, too, so I need to look into what possibilities that may open up for me.

UWone77
12 December 2015, 10:31
Nice looking Rifle. I'm a fan of those ALG Handguards, price is right too.

cjd3
12 December 2015, 14:02
My SPR-ish build is finally coming to fruition. I picked up a WOA 18" SPR barrel and Geissele SD-E during the Black Friday sales.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-6GBCRxx/0/XL/i-6GBCRxx-XL.jpg

Receivers are Mega. BCM gunfighter furniture on the lower. ALG EMR V2 handguard for now, potentially to be replaced by either the BCM KMR or Mega Wedgelock in the future. The only issue so far was it took some abrasives and elbow grease to fit the gas block to the WOA barrel. Apparently WOA has a reputation for being a bit oversize on the gas journal. That was a little annoying but a brake cylinder hone helped quite a bit.


I like your style. I've got the WOA and an 13" EMR v1 on mine. If you ever think about getting rid of your V2, let me know.

BoilerUp
13 December 2015, 15:10
Made it to the range today, mainly just for a function check. Put about 55 rounds through with no problems. Maybe slightly overgassed with brass landing around betwen 1 and 2 o'clock. I was actually concerned I'd end up a bit undergassed due to having to hand fit the gas block and honing it out a bit more than intended or needed.

Here it is mounted with my PST 1-4 for initial testing.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-DhtpX5N/0/XL/i-DhtpX5N-XL.jpg

This was my first time shooting with a flat bow trigger and I can say that I immediately loved the SD-E, at least for bench/bipod shooting.

I did lap the upper receiver face and I think that might have helped in getting two different scope to be on paper and within 1-3 inches of zero for my first shots at 50 yards. I mounted my Z3 and took it out to 100 yards.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-fGDcF2J/0/XL/i-fGDcF2J-XL.jpg

One quick kudo for the Aero Precision ultralight mount: even though they aren't QD, it only takes a minute or two to mount or remove with the included Torx driver, and my RTZ so far has been outstanding.

No particularly impressive groups today but I wasn't trying too hard and the wind was gust between 5 and 15 mp. A shot group at 100 yds of Wolf Gold was all within about an inch of elevation but strung out at about 3 inches horizontally. I suspect that was a combination of the gusting winds and my poor control cant.

The Gunfighter stock made a good first impression, too. Pretty good cheek weld and works well with a rear bag.

It's also the first time I've shot a rifle length gas system in years. I was very happy with the soft recoil, especially as I've been shooting a lot of 6.8 out of a 16" carbine lately.

I think it will be a while before I really form an opinion of the EMR v2. While I generally like the look, and the price point certainly makes it a compelling choice, it may be a bit skinny for my tastes. But I need more range time with it and to do something other than shoot off bags. I can't say I liked the installation procedure, either. I made the whopping $35 investment for a good torque wrench so I'd rather be able to use.

Not too much to report, really, but it's always a bit of relief when a new build functions as expected. My Bobro should be here for my Viper HS LR 2.5-10x32 this week so hopefully I can get back out next week and get that dialed in with some match ammo.

Former11B
14 December 2015, 16:51
How's the cheek weld in that first picture? I like Bobro stuff but I just can't abide the height over bore. Maybe if I had a 50mm objective and needed the clearance but with a 24-32mm obj lens it's like 2.5"+ from center of the tube to bore. It does look like that extended version provides more than enough clearance for proper eye relief though, which is a plus.

BoilerUp
14 December 2015, 18:42
How's the cheek weld in that first picture? I like Bobro stuff but I just can't abide the height over bore. Maybe if I had a 50mm objective and needed the clearance but with a 24-32mm obj lens it's like 2.5"+ from center of the tube to bore. It does look like that extended version provides more than enough clearance for proper eye relief though, which is a plus.

I think you are overthinking it. There is no problem with the Bobro or the AP because they both put the centerline of the optic at 1.5" above the rail (= 2.6" above bore), which is the same plane as iron sights on a carbine. In other words, that's what the rifle was designed for. Objective lens size is pretty much irrelevant. It looks a little odd, but since the stock is in line with the bore, it works. If you have a small head, you might wish the sight plane on the AR was one or two tenths of an inch lower, but much below 1.3" above the rail and you won't be able to squish your face low enough on the stock to get a good repeatable picture through the optic.

While this "feature" of the AR may seem like a shortcoming, it's actually part of the genius of the design, IMO. With an AR, the sight plane is generally the same whether you have an optic or not. HK roller-locks are a good example of what happens on platforms that take a different approach. The series features dropped stocks in order to keep iron sights very close to the bore. The effects are that you have a moment arm on your recoil and you'll need a cheek riser for any optics. Here is the same scope and mount on a PTR91:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-vmgPTg5/1/XL/i-vmgPTg5-XL.jpg

BTW, I'm putting a Viper HS LR 2.5-10x32 just like your on this rifle as soon as my Bobr shows up.

Former11B
14 December 2015, 20:39
Objective lens isn't irrelevant if you have to clear the bell, in which case a higher set of rings or mount is required, and that's what I was referring to...didn't convey the thought well I guess. Obviously with such a small objective, it's not an issue. I guess it's just the angle of the picture which makes it look like its sitting very high. And a low optic in the prone isn't an issue because of the angle your head/neck/body, but if you're sitting on a bench your alignment is much different so I can see where squishing down behind it would be difficult.

Thanks for the reply. I pose the questions because I'm still stuck on using rings vs a one piece; I haven't found one that offers what I'm looking for. My 2.5-10x32 Vortex sits at 1 1/8" center to rail...Though I'd take a slightly higher mount if I could keep the same eye relief. My current setup has allows me to shoot as accurately as I wanted with this build and more, and if I can improve upon that by giving the scope an even better platform, I'd like to

BoilerUp
14 December 2015, 22:27
To clarify my comment, I say that objective size is pretty much irrelevant because with the standard 1.5" above the rail you need greater than a 75mm objective before you have to worry about the bell breaking the plane of the top rail. But I guess I'd also add that when you take position behind your rifle and get a good cheek weld, the height of your eyeballs above your cheek bone is a function of your skull, not the scope size. How you position your skull on the stock likely changes a bit for different shooting positions but I doubt you'll vary that measurement by more than a quarter inch, if that, from prone to standing. Which, btw, would mean your POI may shift from positions if you can't maintain the same cheek weld across positions. On the Ge/HK91, objective size is very important because you have to use a cheek riser for any optic since you will always be raising the sight plane above that for the irons.

I'm curious, though, are you uncomfortable shooting with irons on the AR? I ask because 1 1/8" seems really low. I think I'd have a hard time getting much below 1 1/4" (although I do have a big head). I think dropping to 1 1/8 would force me to compromise my cheek weld, but I'm just guessing.

For reference, check out pictures of military Mk12 / SPRs. They generally use ARMS Mk22 High rings (1.45" above rail) for SPRs that don't have the SWAN rail and Medium rings on top of the SWAN put the optic at 1.65" above the receiver rail (I bet you could get by with low rings for a 32mm objective).

I do like the cantilever of the Bobro mounts as that gives me lots of room to work with to find the right eye relief, so I buy the extended mounts.

Former11B
17 December 2015, 17:35
I learned to shoot on M16A2/A4s with fixed stocks and irons. I can adapt to most platforms I get behind, and don't have a choice with my "recce"'platform with ACOG and fixed mount, but my preference is low and forward. I don't think I have a small or large head...wore a 7 3/8 PC.

I appreciate the feedback and convo

BoilerUp
17 December 2015, 23:06
Bobro came today, thanks to Bauer Precision (excellent service, BTW). Vortex Viper HS LR 2.5-10x32 FFP mounted up for a little yuletide joy

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-tP67h4F/1/XL/i-tP67h4F-XL.jpg

The anti-joy is that one of the screws that holds the EMR to the barrel nut refuses to start right and wants to cross thread. :(

SINNER
18 December 2015, 09:44
Just for future issues. Barrel in freezer for an hour and warm gas block to 250-300* and it will slide right on those oversized WAO journals.

BoilerUp
18 December 2015, 17:11
Just for future issues. Barrel in freezer for an hour and warm gas block to 250-300* and it will slide right on those oversized WAO journals.

I had read that and considered it. I actually started off by heating up the gas block with a heat gun, but the outcome of that was that I got the gas block closer to the journal but then it locked up well before getting in position and I had to apply substantial force (read "he hit it with a hammer") to get the gas block back off. Ultimately, I suspect that I'll be taking this gas block back off to swap handguards in the future so I wanted to set myself up for success in that endeavor. So, I'm pretty happy with the path I chose, especially since there are no signs of gas leakage around the gas block which was my biggest concern. As an added benefit, I garnered some more experience in the realm of fitting gas blocks. :)

BoilerUp
20 December 2015, 16:21
More range time today with the new scope.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-qMDF6Ss/0/XL/i-qMDF6Ss-XL.jpg

Pretty quick to zero. Was able to get about 1.25" five-shot groups out of two different factory loads (Hornady 68gr BTHP and Black HIlls 77gr OTM). Four out of five with the Black Hills were within 3/4", so I think the potential is there. Again, I'm a good, not great, shooter.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-HT8R9Kz/0/XL/i-HT8R9Kz-XL.jpg

Very enjoyable to shoot. No malfs but ejection pattern is indicating the system is a little over gassed.

I'll push it out to 200 yards next time and run a few more types of ammo. I've got some PPU Match 75gr HPBT and Fiocci Exacta 77gr SMK on the way. I'm hoping the PPU does well since it's cheap.

mustangfreek
22 December 2015, 04:52
Build turned out nice, those scopes are nice for the money.. Recently played with one at cabelas while they were in a killer sale..

Former11B
24 December 2015, 06:11
Also look at CBC 77gr OTM. Great price.

My rifles hated 68gr pills; If you were closer I'd give you the ~30 some odd Black Hills 68gr BTHPs I've got left. My 18" rifle took to 77gr Sierra Tipped Match Kings, which is good because I'd bought a 500ct pack of bullets on sale a while back

BoilerUp
3 January 2016, 10:28
Also look at CBC 77gr OTM. Great price.

My rifles hated 68gr pills; If you were closer I'd give you the ~30 some odd Black Hills 68gr BTHPs I've got left. My 18" rifle took to 77gr Sierra Tipped Match Kings, which is good because I'd bought a 500ct pack of bullets on sale a while back

I achieved one my be best 5-shot 100 yard groups so far (~0.9") with this rifle with the CBC ammo. Went to buy more at PSA and they sold out before I completed my order :( I shot a 1 5/8" 5-shot group at 200 yards with the Fiocci Exacta 77gr SMK and was getting pretty good results with the PPU Match 75gr so I ordered more of both. I want to try out the IMI Razorback 77 gr OTM, too.

alamo5000
3 January 2016, 11:53
What is the twist rate of your barrel? Have you tried any Federal Gold Medal Match?

BoilerUp
3 January 2016, 12:07
1:7. Too cheap to buy the GMM right now.

Former11B
3 January 2016, 16:22
If you want me to get you some locally, I've always seen it in store at PSA. Granted....people might be making a run on supplies at the moment. Just let me know...if you want to, shoot me a PM

gatordev
3 January 2016, 17:09
I've been impressed with groups of IMI in my MK12. I haven't had a chance to take it out to distance yet, but in a month that should change. SGAmmo has it back in stock, I think. If not, I'm guessing he'll get it back soon. CBC has shot well for me, as well.

BoilerUp
10 January 2016, 18:53
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-cd3kh34/0/X3/i-cd3kh34-X3.jpg

BoilerUp
30 January 2016, 20:39
Well, I couldn't leave well enough alone and took advantage of the ROGTac sale to pick up a BCM 15" KMR-A to replace my EMR v2 on my SPR-ish build. I think now I'll just have to call it a Recce-ish build.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4n45KrM/0/X3/i-4n45KrM-X3.jpg

Initial impressions of the KMR-A are over-the-top good. I love the mounting system plus the look and feel of the rail. I just couldn't get excited about the EMR - I hate the mounting system, was not digging the round profile, and I've pretty much decided to dump M-LOK. I may keep the EMR for a 6.8 hunting upper, but I'll probably sell it.

All is not well, though. What you can't see in the picture above is that the aft cross bolt is sheered. I over torqued it, much to my surprise since I was just using the included wrench. I had to drill out the stub from the other side to get the hardware off and now all the money I saved from the ROGTac sale (and then some) will have to go towards buying replacement mounting hardware. Just as well, I guess, as it gives me an excuse to order a few more things from BCM that have been on my list for a while.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-5gcQHFL/1/L/i-5gcQHFL-L.jpg

Also, the Geissele Super Block gas block appears to be making contact with rail on the built up area of the gas block that supports the cross-pin. I'll probably just file that down instead of replacing it since I had to hone the block it to get it to fit on the WOA barrel.

Justincase
29 February 2016, 07:59
good looking build ! that is my next project SPR/ MK12

Jerry R
29 February 2016, 08:57
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-cd3kh34/0/X3/i-cd3kh34-X3.jpg

Very nicely done Sir !

If you get a chance, what is the outside diameter of the ocular housing, and what is the distance from the top of the rail to the bottom of the ocular - how much clearance? The eyepiece looks nice and fat, and I am wondering about rear BUIS clearance. I have a scope coming with a large ocular, and I am researching mounts. Is your BoBro one of the 30mm 20MOA cantilever? They show a couple of those mounts - one at 1.485" and one at 1.575" rail to centerline. It looks like you have plenty of room for a BUIS.

BoilerUp
29 February 2016, 21:27
Very nicely done Sir !

If you get a chance, what is the outside diameter of the ocular housing, and what is the distance from the top of the rail to the bottom of the ocular - how much clearance? The eyepiece looks nice and fat, and I am wondering about rear BUIS clearance. I have a scope coming with a large ocular, and I am researching mounts. Is your BoBro one of the 30mm 20MOA cantilever? They show a couple of those mounts - one at 1.485" and one at 1.575" rail to centerline. It looks like you have plenty of room for a BUIS.

Jerry,
Tons of room for a BUIS:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-r8xkjvf/0/X2/i-r8xkjvf-X2.jpg

Optic is Vortex HS-LR 2.5-10x32 with an occular bell 1.63in in diameter ( https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-r8xkjvf/0/X2/i-r8xkjvf-X2.jpg )
The Bobro is their standard 30mm extended (0 MOA cant) with a centerline just over 1.575" above the rail ( http://www.bobroengineering.com/view/product/8/ )

BoilerUp
29 February 2016, 21:36
OK, I might actually have this thing done now. My replacement KMR mounting hardware came quickly from BCM and I finally got my gas block issue resolved with a Sentry 7 set-screw that is over bored by .002

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-V85kdgb/0/X2/i-V85kdgb-X2.jpg

Now I just need to get to range and see if it actually shoots.

Former11B
29 February 2016, 21:41
Great looking rifle!!!!! What are you planning on feeding it? I think it'd look complete with a bipod but that's just me

BoilerUp
29 February 2016, 21:51
Great looking rifle!!!!! What are you planning on feeding it? I think it'd look complete with a bipod but that's just me

Thanks! I've got a Harris for it, I just need to get a KeyMod bipod mount. Probably going to go with the DD.

I'm still figuring out which factory ammo it likes best (I'm not reloading yet). I've got some IMI 69gr and 77gr SMK, as well as Outback 69gr SMK, to try next time I head out. For "bench-plinking" I've got 75 gr PPU Match that does reasonably well for the price and I got some good results with the Fiocci Exacta 77gr SMK (sub MOA @ 200 yards - my best 5-shot 200 yard group ever). I'm a decent shooter, but not a great one, so I can't always tell if my less-than-brag-worthy groups are the result of the ammo, the rifle, or the shooter.

Jerry R
1 March 2016, 06:55
Jerry,
Tons of room for a BUIS:

Thanks - much appreciated !!

BoilerUp
2 April 2016, 10:40
A few more configuration changes. Picked up the DD KeyMod bipod mount, and swapped out some of the furniture from one of my carbines so I can run the B5 SOPMOD and an Ergo grip on the SPR-ish build and run the Gunfigther furniture on my carbine. I really like the GF furniture, but found the grip doesn't work well for my style of bench/precision shooting. Also, the GF stock was ripping out my beard and I like the cheekweld on the SOPMOD better.

I'll get it out to the range tomorrow and see if I think this is an improvement
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-rHdVhZd/0/X3/i-rHdVhZd-X3.jpg

SINNER
2 April 2016, 18:52
Looks killer now. I like the B5 SOPMOD more and more every time I use it.

DUX
2 April 2016, 19:58
I in no way intend to come of glib or step on anyones' toes, but I genuinely do not understand why people seem to like heavy barrels. I've read tons of opinions, and understand why some people theorize that they are more suitable for a rifle, but my practical experiencs--limited compared to some here as it may be--has my position favoring the opposite end of the spectrum. Is it just a school of doctrine issue? Have any of you who like the heavy barrels tried shooting pencil barrels and vice versa? Again, I don't intend to cause any emotional reactions. I'm purely curious and interested in any responses given.

UWone77
2 April 2016, 20:02
I in no way intend to come of glib or step on anyones' toes, but I genuinely do not understand why people seem to like heavy barrels. I've read tons of opinions, and understand why some people theorize that they are more suitable for a rifle, but my practical experiencs--limited compared to some here as it may be--has my position favoring the opposite end of the spectrum. Is it just a school of doctrine issue? Have any of you who like the heavy barrels tried shooting pencil barrels and vice versa? Again, I don't intend to cause any emotional reactions. I'm purely curious and interested in any responses given.

That's a government profile barrel. A true "heavy" barrel is thicker, .936 at the GB.

DUX
2 April 2016, 20:15
@UWone77: Understood, and thank you. However, the whole of the Vietnam War was fought with pencil barrels. Most AK's have pencil barrels. Throughout 20th century history most barrels have been pencil barrels. They've done an amazing job. They have taken out more bad-guys than any other kind. Why the fascination with more weight? I can understand that perhaps a sniper or some such might like one, but the AR isn't a Sniper grade weapons platform from everything I've come to understand about it. To me, it just seems like needless weight, and weight is a big deal for a combat weapon. Please expound if you desire.

BoilerUp
2 April 2016, 21:21
@UWone77: Understood, and thank you. However, the whole of the Vietnam War was fought with pencil barrels. Most AK's have pencil barrels. Throughout 20th century history most barrels have been pencil barrels. They've done an amazing job. They have taken out more bad-guys than any other kind.

Pencil barrel? Yeah, got one of those, too: http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?7278-Lite


Why the fascination with more weight? I can understand that perhaps a sniper or some such might like one, but the AR isn't a Sniper grade weapons platform from everything I've come to understand about it. To me, it just seems like needless weight, and weight is a big deal for a combat weapon. Please expound if you desire.

I'm pretty judicious about adding weight to a rifle. In fact, the main reason I don't have a large frame (.308) pattern AR is because of weight. Instead, I run 6.8 through the AR-15 platform and that does what I need, at least for now. But to say that "the AR isn't a sniper grade weapons platform" is partly true but also sells short the capability of the platform. Getting sub-MOA out of a decent AR isn't that hard. Getting down to .5 MOA isn't terribly hard, either, it's just more expensive. This is a ~$1,000 (ex-optics) rifle that is perfectly capable of ~3/4 MOA, probably better. I could tell you why I think a heavier barrel adds value, but I'd be just spitting out my synthesis and internalization of things I've read. I've never done the testing and don't have the raw facts and data to prove squat. But I know that the folks at NSWC Crane spent some time thinking about it and came with a barrel that we now call the "SPR profile" for the Mk12. The M110, which is considered a sniper system, also has a heavy profile barrel. Based on what I've read, I personally wouldn't grab my pencil barrel rifle if I had to grab something from the safe and head towards gunfire. But it wouldn't be this rifle, either.

BoilerUp
2 April 2016, 21:36
Looks killer now. I like the B5 SOPMOD more and more every time I use it.

Thanks! Yes, I think the SOPMOD is hard to beat. The only real downside is that it's a few ounces heavier than the Gunfighter if you are really counting ounces. It's also only about a 1/4" longer than the BCM gunfighter but apparently that's all it takes to save my beard. My whiskers get pulled out between the stock and the buffer tube on the GF (I have a very large head that I'm sure is at least one standard deviation beyond what BCM took into consideration during design).

DUX
2 April 2016, 22:07
@BoilerUP: Thank you for the lengthy explanation. I guess it's just what you have faith in. I'm right the opposite from you. If there was anything serious going on a heavy barrel is the absolute last thing I'd grab given the option. It takes all kinds I suppose. Thanks again.

BoilerUp
3 April 2016, 21:41
Just a quick follow up. I'm very happy with this set up. The SOPMOD and Ergo work out well. This thing is a real joy to shoot.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-kX36Sns/0/X2/i-kX36Sns-X2.jpg

Former11B
4 April 2016, 06:18
@UWone77: Understood, and thank you. However, the whole of the Vietnam War was fought with pencil barrels. Most AK's have pencil barrels. Throughout 20th century history most barrels have been pencil barrels. They've done an amazing job. They have taken out more bad-guys than any other kind. Why the fascination with more weight? I can understand that perhaps a sniper or some such might like one, but the AR isn't a Sniper grade weapons platform from everything I've come to understand about it. To me, it just seems like needless weight, and weight is a big deal for a combat weapon. Please expound if you desire.

The whole of the Vietnam War was fought with lightweight/pencil barrels, yes, but that says nothing to accuracy, especially accuracy after high sustained rates of full auto fire from an M16A1 and an infantryman with no fire discipline. Just because everyone was shooting a specific rifle barrel has no correlation to the quality or benefit of said barrel. The rifle has changed and adapted quite a bit, so that ought to tell you something.

All things equal, a pencil barrel is probably just as accurate as a heavy barrel.....for the first few shots anyway. The heavier barrel will handle the heat of multiple shots much better as well as maintain the stiffness (harmonics) needed to repeat precise shots.

Unless I missed it, most benchrest and match shooters are using heavy barrels.

SINNER
4 April 2016, 07:23
Discussing barrel profiles with disregard to the parent material used in the manufacturing process of the barrel is the first mistake of this discussion.

Pencil barrels have their place and can function as well as a heavy profile in MOST applications. SCAR's are a perfect example of the manufacturing process allowing a pencil profile to function like a heavy barrel. Almost. They are still inferior to a heavier profile when it comes to hanging a supressor off the end and for maintaining a consistent zero firing long repeated strings of shots.

BoilerUp
4 April 2016, 16:55
Unloaded, rifle only (no optics or bipod) this rifle weights 7 lbs 2 oz, or about 12 oz more than a standard M4 (I believe they weigh around 6 lbs 6 oz). With bipod and glass it is 9 lbs 10 oz. The SPR barrel profile doesn't add a lot of weight. As UW indicated, the SPR profile is not a particularly heavy profile. It's more of a "medium contour". And it's interesting to note that a lot of 3-gunners prefer medium contour, rifle gas, 18" barrels.

When I think of pencil weight barrels on modern rifles, I think of the G36. It's reputation is shit in large part because of (reportedly) huge POI shift and wild groupings when it heats up.

For me, I just wanted a decent gun for 100-600 yard precision shooting so I can work on my basic marksmanship skills. A bolt gun would have been the easiest way to go, but that's no fun and doesn't irritate liberals as effectively as a scary black rifle. And given the accuracy potential of the AR platform (to my point above), why limit myself to a 170 year old technology?

Joelski
5 April 2016, 06:09
Discussing barrel profiles with disregard to the parent material used in the manufacturing process of the barrel is the first mistake of this discussion.

Pencil barrels have their place and can function as well as a heavy profile in MOST applications. SCAR's are a perfect example of the manufacturing process allowing a pencil profile to function like a heavy barrel. Almost. They are still inferior to a heavier profile when it comes to hanging a supressor off the end and for maintaining a consistent zero firing long repeated strings of shots.

Mil-spec calls for button rifling. Most SPR and match grade barrels are cold hammer forged, which is arguably more accurate, and the most influential feature, next to floating.

Slippers
5 April 2016, 07:10
Mil-spec calls for button rifling. Most SPR and match grade barrels are cold hammer forged, which is arguably more accurate, and the most influential feature, next to floating.

I think you're a bit confused. Any of the well known match barrel makers like Shilen, Lilja, Bartlein, or PacNor do not use hammer forging.

There are only a few places in the US capable of making hammer forged barrels, like Daniel Defense and FN. DD actually does make an 18" SPR barrel that is stainless and hammer forged, but that's pretty rare. A hammer forged stainless barrel would probably still require a good bit of lapping/finishing before it was match grade in terms of accuracy, too.

SINNER
5 April 2016, 07:20
Mil-spec calls for button rifling. Most SPR and match grade barrels are cold hammer forged, which is arguably more accurate, and the most influential feature, next to floating.

Yeah, You are pretty much backwards on that comment.


I think you're a bit confused. Any of the well known match barrel makers like Shilen, Lilja, Bartlein, or PacNor do not use hammer forging.

There are only a few places in the US capable of making hammer forged barrels, like Daniel Defense and FN. DD actually does make an 18" SPR barrel that is stainless and hammer forged, but that's pretty rare. A hammer forged stainless barrel would probably still require a good bit of lapping/finishing before it was match grade in terms of accuracy, too.


I can say from first hand experience the DD SPR barrel is not even close to the Douglas as far as accuracy goes. Longevity is where the cold hammer forged barrels shine.

UWone77
5 April 2016, 08:59
Mil-spec calls for button rifling. Most SPR and match grade barrels are cold hammer forged, which is arguably more accurate, and the most influential feature, next to floating.

Other than DD, I really can't even think of anyone making a CHF SPR/Match Grade Barrels. I know Umbrella was working on a CHF Stainless Match Barrel, but that was years ago, and yet to see the light of day.

SINNER
5 April 2016, 09:16
Other than DD, I really can't even think of anyone making a CHF SPR/Match Grade Barrels. I know Umbrella was working on a CHF Stainless Match Barrel, but that was years ago, and yet to see the light of day.

https://www.fnamerica.com/products/carbines/fn-15-series/fn15-sporting/

Closest I know of but not a SPR profile.

DUX
5 April 2016, 10:02
I feel like I kind of derailed the thread and that is what I did not want to do. Thank you for all your imputs fella's. They are most appreciated. Admins, would it be possible to seperate the pencil barrel part of the discussion into a separate thread? Thanks.

UWone77
5 April 2016, 10:10
I feel like I kind of derailed the thread and that is what I did not want to do. Thank you for all your imputs fella's. They are most appreciated. Admins, would it be possible to seperate the pencil barrel part of the discussion into a separate thread? Thanks.

No, you'll have to start your own thread.

SINNER
5 April 2016, 10:50
Lazy ass admins.

DUX
5 April 2016, 10:51
@Uwone77: Yes sir. Done. http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?9061-Pencil-Barrels-That-s-a-Whippin-!

UWone77
5 April 2016, 11:57
Lazy ass admins.

That's a fact [:D][BD]

We are running short.

Joelski
5 April 2016, 13:57
Only 3 days 'til payday!

mustangfreek
6 April 2016, 02:17
Lazy ass admins.


be nice now....lol...

BoilerUp
1 April 2018, 11:36
Revisiting this thread as I just made a few updates to the build. I switched the stock over to a Magpul STR, added a JP Silent Captured Spring, and switched the MD over to a new Griffin Armament Taper Mount Flash Comp that allows me to run my new Recce 5. Took it out to shoot suppressed and with the JP SCS for the first time yesterday:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-3k2BvMH/0/511ca12d/X3/i-3k2BvMH-X3.jpg

I'm glad I put the SLR Sentry 7 on it, as it allowed me to close the gas a few clicks. With the smooth action of the SCS, the suppression, and being able to tune the gas to reduce blowback, this thing is a sweetheart to shoot. The STR is a great stock for shooting from the bench, too. I love the SOPMOD stocks, but they just aren't good for bench shooting, or using a rear bag. The STR still gives SOPMOD-like cheekweld, so I'm now a fan.

Aragorn
1 April 2018, 12:58
Those JP SCS's are awesome. I love mine.

UWone77
1 April 2018, 13:47
See... now I just miss the DUX posts.

Former11B
1 April 2018, 17:26
See... now I just miss the DUX posts.

First thing I thought of.


I’ve been wanting to try a Geissele Super 42 braided Buffer spring. The one that came in my Colt lower is kind of sproing-y even with adjustable/reduced gas. And speaking of adjustable gas...that’s something that any future build will have. Innovative Arms WAR Uppers and the Rainier adjustable block (+intermediate gas) has made me a believer

What kind of ammo were you shooting/how did it shoot?

BoilerUp
1 April 2018, 19:28
I ran a mix through it yesterday. Mostly 77 grain Noslers over Varget, one small ladder with Nosler 55 gr FBHP over TAC, another with the same over H335. For factory ammo, I had some Fiochhi 77 gr SMK (which has proven to be my favorite factory load for the 77 gr SMK), and some Winchester .223 55 gr FMJ. I have to say, that Winchester .223 is impressive. Best accuracy I've seen from bulk ammo and you get the excellent Winchester brass w/o the factory crimped primers (if you get the .223 instead of the 5.56 load).

Honestly, I'm struggling to get consistent sub-MOA out of the barrel, but I haven't figured out yet if it is the barrel, the ammo, or the shooter. About the time I start feeling disappointed in the WOA, it surprises me and stacks a group. I'm having fun playing around with the loads, though, and it's a joy to shoot, so I'll keep at it and see what I can learn this year. I'm half way looking for an excuse to get a JP barrel, though. Yesterday was the first time I was shooting it suppressed, so I was more interested in POI shift (which was about 1 MOA down) and muzzle velocities for the ladders than I was groups.

I've got the Geissele Super 42 setup in my LMT carbine but don't have a lot of time behind it yet. I did get my first ever repeated malfs (feeding issues) from the LMT when I put the Recce 5 on it and shot with S42. More range time required there to figure out what is going on.

alamo5000
1 April 2018, 19:45
Boilerup, do you have a chronograph? If you do it might help to chrono your shots to help determine accuracy.

BoilerUp
1 April 2018, 19:58
Boilerup, do you have a chronograph? If you do it might help to chrono your shots to help determine accuracy.

Yep. Recently acquired a Magnetospeed V3. That's what I meant when I said I was more interested in muzzle velocity than groups.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-GB5N6dM/0/7bc8cbe4/X3/i-GB5N6dM-X3.jpg

edit: and it makes my day when I have the whole range to myself like that in the picture above.

alamo5000
1 April 2018, 20:08
NICE! I hope you are enjoying that Recce 5!

mustangfreek
2 April 2018, 02:58
Don’t chase velocity....it won’t help with accuracy..

How many rds thru the woa barrel?

After a good 500 ish rds I would expect it to be a tack driver.

cjd3
2 April 2018, 21:45
Are you getting good color holes on your target?

mustangfreek
4 April 2018, 07:22
Iím jealous of the range all to yourself though...must be Seattle or south..donít recognize it..Iím up north and only range up here without driving to the border is Marysville and Iíve been trying to become a member for months...fricking waiting list..so I only have a formal range available on thursdays ,open to the public.. Iíve always wanted to build amy own killer range in this area for decades,run, design etc, more area, bays, longer distances, lots of steel...pipe dreams...lol

Made me curious though.., as Iíve got some untested loads of 77/varget, 55ís and tac also..
What kind of velocities, dev. Etc you were getting?

BoilerUp
4 April 2018, 20:02
cjd3, no, I wasn't getting color on paper, but wasn't really expecting to since the Sharpie had plenty of time to dry. I just color code my bullets so I can tell the various loads apart.

Mustang, I am a member and shoot at Cascade (https://www.cascadeshootingfacilities.org/) out by Maple Valley. Took me about 2 years to clear the wait list. It's a great range, yet I still dream of the day when I can shoot a few hundred yards on my own property.

Regarding velocities:

Nosler 77 gr Custom Competition over 24 gr Varget in Wolf once fired brass, R 7 1/2 primers was giving me ~2,592 w/ std of 20
Nosler 55 gr FBHP gave me about 3,000 fps with either 26 gr of TAC or 25 gr of H335
Factory Winchester .223 55gr gave me ~2,880

I probably have around 400 rounds through the barrel at this point, but don't really keep good track

BoilerUp
10 March 2019, 17:29
Upgraded to a RA Ultramatch Mod2 20"

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Lpx46d8/0/7aefcaec/X3/i-Lpx46d8-X3.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-VBCc7jN/0/992a584e/X3/i-VBCc7jN-X3.jpg

mustangfreek
11 March 2019, 00:43
Nice!

Quite a change from page 1...lol

Former11B
11 March 2019, 03:40
Nice!

Quite a change from page 1...lol

The real magic is on page 3.

DUX