Another Optics Discussion

[alamo5000]

I am looking for professional opinions here. I still have to buy an optic of some sort for my soon to be built rifle. (A few more boxes to arrive and I will have all the parts)

Here is what I am thinking. My main purpose for the gun will be 100 yards and in and to get on target fast. It's going to be a blaster. It will need to be daylight bright so washing out in brighter light is a bad thing. It must be 1x. I also do not like the tunnel vision you get with some RDS.

I want both eyes open shooting. I do not plan to run any kind of magnifier although later on as I get more money I could theoretically add some NV just because it would be a pretty bad ass thing to spend some money on. It won't happen anytime soon but maybe it could happen if I strike it rich in the stock market.

The discussion is basically between RMR type optics and true RDS type optics.

Let's say money's no object but you can only buy one to run on a 10.5 SBR like I am building.

What are the pros and what are the cons to each in your opinion. What should I think about before I make a purchase?

Up until now I have been thinking an Aimpoint T2... and if I get it and hate it, I can sell it no problem. Aimpoint offers several other types of 1x RDS so those are also on the table. Trijicon has some offerings as well so basically I am an open book.

Of course I am looking for quality, but I am also looking for function.

And as you all know I am not some ninja, cop, or SEAL so more or less this is going to be an expensive range toy. I just don't want a shitty optic on it.

Also please note that just like with my other rifle obviously I would love to have a US Optics or a Night Force... but I haven't gotten there yet. I am running a Vortex until I gain a greater appreciation (and need) for the high end stuff.

Same concept applies to this optic. While I would probably be super stoked with a T2 what are some other good options out there?

[Stone]

T2 and call it a day. But if money wasnt an issue, Kahles 16i. The Kahles is the king of hill when it comes to 1x6 optics. In fact quite a few pro 3 gunners are ditchin their swaros and zeiss's for it. You wont be dissapointed.

[alamo5000]

T2 and call it a day. But if money wasnt an issue, Kahles 16i. The Kahles is the king of hill when it comes to 1x6 optics. In fact quite a few pro 3 gunners are ditchin their swaros and zeiss's for it. You wont be dissapointed.

I am talking straight up 1x red dots or similar. So far that's one vote for a T2. Well two votes :)

[Dstrbdmedic167]

I think the MRO is a strong contender but the T2 is proven.. hard to go wrong with either IMO...

Having said that using Slipper's setup with a scalarworks mount(vaperware as of late) is the cats meow....

[alamo5000]

I think the MRO is a strong contender but the T2 is proven.. hard to go wrong with either IMO...

Having said that using Slipper's setup with a scalarworks mount(vaperware as of late) is the cats meow....

Have you seen the CMT mounts? What about the SLR mounts?

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Have you seen the CMT mounts? What about the SLR mounts?

Not in person but I can't say you can go wrong either way! I'd lean toward the CMT but thats me...

[alamo5000]

Not in person but I can't say you can go wrong either way! I'd lean toward the CMT but thats me...

I still kind of lean towards the T2... but I was wondering if there is anything else that could be an option. Knowing me though I will always have a T2 in the back of my mind if I don't get it.

As for mounts once I put the gun together I guess I need to get a feel for the mount height. I have also seen other mounts that look kind of cool.

I wonder if putting it forward like that at all makes any kind of difference....

http://vpstestgunscom.c.presscdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Fortis-with-Aimpoint.jpg

[voodoo_man]

Some of the stuff you posted about is training based.

Some is just preference and there are a few things to consider.

If you want a serious optic you will own for years to come and get tons of use out of, in the rds true 1x range then a t1 or t2 2moa is a given.

If you will ever use this rifle for people shooting, even remotely, then i highly recommend getting some sort of optic you can PID (positive identification) a target at a distance.

[Uffdaphil]

Daylight bright and fast for 100 yds in ? I'm partial to my Tru-Dots and MRO, but they don't have a track record like Aimpoint. If you are limited to only one, I vote the T2 based on how much I respected my T1. Not a professional so my preference is just based on having tried a wide variety of red dots. My RMR (tiny window = slow) and EOs (too busy reticle, quality?) are long gone and not missed.

[alamo5000]

Some of the stuff you posted about is training based.

Some is just preference and there are a few things to consider.

If you want a serious optic you will own for years to come and get tons of use out of, in the rds true 1x range then a t1 or t2 2moa is a given.

If you will ever use this rifle for people shooting, even remotely, then i highly recommend getting some sort of optic you can PID (positive identification) a target at a distance.

I am not planning on shooting anyone. EVER. LOL

But if I had to...

As I go along and shoot some with it and get trigger time behind this kind of gun I can get different optics.... I could put my 1-4 on it with little problem.

I am curious about the 'training based' comment though. Please share some knowledge on me :)

[alamo5000]

Daylight bright and fast for 100 yds in ? I'm partial to my Tru-Dots and MRO, but they don't have a track record like Aimpoint. If you are limited to only one, I vote the T2 based on how much I respected my T1. Not a professional so my preference is just based on having tried a wide variety of red dots. My RMR (tiny window = slow) and EOs (too busy reticle, quality?) are long gone and not missed.

The only RDS I have ever used fell clearly in the POS Chinese made junk shit category. I want a good one that I can have confidence in.

[alamo5000]

Oh damn. I just bought a T2. [BD]

I did not get the mount. I am going to research that part out more.

[alamo5000]

Now I want to discuss and make a list of options of mounts.

So far SLR and CMT are on the list. Fortis looks interesting. Anything else?

Help me make a list so I can make a choice.

[BoilerUp]

Now I want to discuss and make a list of options of mounts.

So far SLR and CMT are on the list. Fortis looks interesting. Anything else?

Help me make a list so I can make a choice.

Bobro http://www.bobroengineering.com/view/product/12/

[alamo5000]

Bobro http://www.bobroengineering.com/view/product/12/

I am not much on QD.

I could be converted eventually but for now... ehhh not so sure.

[JGifford]

T2 or M4s.
However, I went with a Nightforce 1-4 with FC-2 reticle and PTL. Why? Because it's a brick shithouse. It works just fine, even though it's not optically as "nice" as a K16i, I have more faith in it not failing. For me, that was #1.

[Stone]

Lot of good mounts out there. I run the Larue 660's on my T1's but here's a few more with a good reputation.

KDG: https://kineticdg.com/product/sidelok-aimpoint-t1-t2-h1-h2/

Scalorworks: https://scalarworks.com/optic-mounts/ldm-micro/

ADM: http://americandefensemfg.com/

DD: https://danieldefense.com/mounts/aimpointr-micro-mount-absolute-co-witness.html

GDI: http://www.gdiengineering.com/store/products/mt-osm-optical-sight-mount-coming-soon.html
You did say money was not important.

I would go with the lower third co-witness. The absolute mounts are a little lower and force your head down lower than a natural cheek weld.

[alamo5000]

I just got tired of thinking about it so I bought the CMT lower 1/3. It was on my mind and honestly for 50 bucks I can swap it if I don't like it. Plus I have absolute confidence in CMT.

[voodoo_man]

I am looking for professional opinions here. I still have to buy an optic of some sort for my soon to be built rifle. (A few more boxes to arrive and I will have all the parts)

Here is what I am thinking. My main purpose for the gun will be 100 yards and in and to get on target fast. It's going to be a blaster. It will need to be daylight bright so washing out in brighter light is a bad thing. It must be 1x. I also do not like the tunnel vision you get with some RDS.

I want both eyes open shooting. I do not plan to run any kind of magnifier although later on as I get more money I could theoretically add some NV just because it would be a pretty bad ass thing to spend some money on. It won't happen anytime soon but maybe it could happen if I strike it rich in the stock market.

The discussion is basically between RMR type optics and true RDS type optics.

Let's say money's no object but you can only buy one to run on a 10.5 SBR like I am building.

What are the pros and what are the cons to each in your opinion. What should I think about before I make a purchase?

Up until now I have been thinking an Aimpoint T2... and if I get it and hate it, I can sell it no problem. Aimpoint offers several other types of 1x RDS so those are also on the table. Trijicon has some offerings as well so basically I am an open book.

Of course I am looking for quality, but I am also looking for function.

And as you all know I am not some ninja, cop, or SEAL so more or less this is going to be an expensive range toy. I just don't want a shitty optic on it.

Also please note that just like with my other rifle obviously I would love to have a US Optics or a Night Force... but I haven't gotten there yet. I am running a Vortex until I gain a greater appreciation (and need) for the high end stuff.

Same concept applies to this optic. While I would probably be super stoked with a T2 what are some other good options out there?

Training related highlighted in red.

Just a note, if you have no intention of ever using it on people and just as a fun toy, just buy a hobby grade AR (dare I say s&w...and the like?) and keep that vortex optic on it. Save yourself the trouble of this whole exercise. Meanwhile save up and if the hobby grade AR doesn't do anything for you, use the money you save for an SR15 with a Z6i/high end magnified optic and call it a day.

[alamo5000]

Training related highlighted in red.

Just a note, if you have no intention of ever using it on people and just as a fun toy, just buy a hobby grade AR (dare I say s&w...and the like?) and keep that vortex optic on it. Save yourself the trouble of this whole exercise. Meanwhile save up and if the hobby grade AR doesn't do anything for you, use the money you save for an SR15 with a Z6i/high end magnified optic and call it a day.

Kind of too late. I have boxes of parts laying around waiting to be put together including an engraved lower and an already submitted tax stamp. LOL

I just like to have nice things to be honest. I could have 5 medium guns or I could have two really nice ones... I just like the latter more. It takes more saving and planning to get what I know I will enjoy over a long period of time. It has absolutely zero to do with impressing other people. I am buying stuff for my own enjoyment and use. Truth is since I shoot on private property 99% of the time no one will ever see my guns anyway.

I learned a lot building my first rifle so this time I have already avoided some flubs... but with anything it will just take time to work out preferences and fine tune the things I like and don't like.

But then again I am always open to trying new things [:D]

As a whole you guys put up with me and answer my questions and no one has kicked my ass yet so that's a good thing LOL

Most of my questions might be basic and sound ignorant to the well heeled, but they are genuine and I TRULY thank you guys for helping me learn so much. I am light years ahead of where I was just a year ago in terms of knowledge.

Hopefully I will be just that much further in another year.

[alamo5000]

Just a note, if you have no intention of ever using it on people

There is always the prospect of looters.

Other than something like that I am going to shoot for fun... but no it will not be a 'duty gun' because I am not a LEO or anything like that.

[voodoo_man]

My comments were not to dissuade you from buying anything specific or having nice things - this is America buy whatever you want, whenever you want, for whatever you reason you want, because freedom.

I am just giving you certain things to consider based on your requirements for a rifle and its intended use.

[alamo5000]

I am open to and appreciate all worthy input from all respectable parties.

[Bronco75]

I am running an Aimpoint Comp M4s on my 10.5 SBR. It's a heavy pig, but it's built like a brick shithouse. I decided on the M4s as the objective is larger and I like that better for both eyes open shooting. I also own a T-2 that lives on my Sig MPX. I like both optics...you can't go wrong with Aimpoint.

Optics I am running on each platform:

NF NXS Compact 2-10x42 - 18" 5.56 SPR
Leupold MK4 LRT 3.5-10x40 - 16" 7.62 SR-25
Leupold MK4 LRT 3.5-10x40 - 18" 7.62 M1A EBR
Aimpoint CompM4s - 10.5" 5.56 SBR
ACOG TA31F - 14.5" 5.56 AR
Aimpoint CompM2 - 14.5" 5.56 AR
Aimpoint T-2 - Sig MPX
Aimpoint PRO - 10.5" SBR - 300BLK (Likely will switch to a 1-6 at some point)
Trijicon RMR - TacSol .22LR AR

[RiverRat]

After all this, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Aimpoint Micro H1/H2 over the Micro T1/T2.

Similar performance envelope:
- Same form factor, weight and mounting screws/index. Supplied mount is different, but risers are required for each anyway.
- Same 2 or 4 MOA dot.
- Still water resistant, though only to 15 feet instead of 83 feet (still, who is going diving with their carbine?). And there's been some discussion around recent H1's having exactly the same and seals as the T1 despite the advertised difference.
- Negligable difference in temperature ranges: -20 F/140 F range (H1) vs -49F/160 F range (T1).
- Same shock/vibration resistance.

Only real functional differences:
- 13 visible settings (H1/H2) vs 8 visible (1 extra bright)/4 nightvision (T1/T2). I'm not sure how different the T1 "extra bright" setting is compared to 13 on the H1.
- AIMPOINT logo in white on semi-matte for H1, light grey on matte for T1. A mall ninja distinction in my mind - I don't exactly see people blacking out white trademarks on their rails, either.

Since most of us will never run nightvision, I see no reason to spend the extra cash on a T series when the H1 could be had for as little as $400 in recent sales. Spend the savings on a mount and be happy.

[Joelski]

Since the cool quad pipe NVG'S are still around 140k, I'm perfectly fine with my H1. :)

[tact]

Now I want to discuss and make a list of options of mounts.

So far SLR and CMT are on the list. Fortis looks interesting. Anything else?

Help me make a list so I can make a choice.

Kinetic Development Sidelok

[DeviantLogic]

I am not much on QD.

I could be converted eventually but for now... ehhh not so sure.

Get a nice QD mount. You can thank me later. Bobro and Larue would be my first recommendations. Dave Timm also posted a video here (http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?8649-Midwest-Industries-MI-QD-Optic-Mount-for-Aimpoint-PRO-amp-CompM4) a couple weeks ago on the Midwest Industries mounts. Made me buy one after watching it :)