new to precision bolt guns

[ksenter]

I currently own 5 ARs, 3 AKs, an SKS, a SWD M11/9, too many shotguns, a gaggle of rimfires, saiga12, m44 mosin, yadda yadda yadda....but I'm BRAND SPANKING NEW to precision bolt guns.

I've purchased and waiting on delivery of a Remington 700 AAC 20" in .308. Rifle should be here anyday and I'm itchin already to get it to the range. Which leads me to our first issue, I'm undecided on which scope base to get. I've looked at EGW, Tilley, Weaver, Seekins, Nightforce, you name it! I've all but decided I'm not going to spend $100 on a damn "rail" of a scope base. Hell, I can nearly get 15" of quad rail for the same damn price!!! Although I dont have any local ranges that stretch out to 1000yds or bettter, I still wish to configure it as such and will address this with a 20moa base. I have done some research and plan to bed it if need be. But really, I am looking for some direction on " you dont need to spend $100 for a base" or "man, you're totally wasting time and money buying that $45 base."

help the precision newb

[DeviantLogic]

I'd recommend checking out 8541 Tactical's youtube channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC53XIbcyE0Qk2v-Slfb-89Q). He did a budget precision build series a while back...think he used either a weaver or leupold scope base.

I've got a Nightforce base on my Rem 700...even with those you'll want to use some JB Weld to remove/reduce the flex on the scope base.

[Former11B]

Have you picked out a scope yet?


Nightforce makes a 20 MOA one piece base for the 700 Short action, $57 and free shipping. Quality with a decent price

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2268389154/nightforce-standard-duty-1-piece-picatinny-style-scope-base-remington-700-short-action-matte

[ksenter]

my plan on the scope is to hurry up and wait. I want to spend my moneys in the rifle, base, possible trigger and possible magpul hunter stock before I save (my moneys dont overfloweth from the well) to put "better" glass on it. For now, I will run a Nikon 3-9x40 on it. Should be plenty of glass for learning my rifle, learning my basics, and using my local 100yd range. As to what I plan on using in the future....I havent gotten that far. Will likely never be anything extravagant as I only have 16 years left to save for my daughters first car, proms, college, wardrobes........ haha

[ksenter]

Have you picked out a scope yet?


Nightforce makes a 20 MOA one piece base for the 700 Short action, $57 and free shipping. Quality with a decent price

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2268389154/nightforce-standard-duty-1-piece-picatinny-style-scope-base-remington-700-short-action-matte

question on that nightforce (hadnt seen that one, nice option), I notice it doesnt have a recoil lug underneath on the "feet". Is this as important as some mention on the interwebs?

[Josh S.]

I bought the same rifle you have a few months ago and the previous owner had installed a McRee chassis as well as a McRee 20 MOA scope base. IMO the McRee base is a solid choice for the money, only $50-60 brand new I believe. If I were to spend $100 on a base I would probably go with Seekins or Badger.

I'm actually in the process of parting out that rifle mentioned above and still have the McRee base. It's FDE and has some wear but I'll send it your way if you want it.

[ksenter]

PM inbound

[ksenter]

wow guys! again, another awesome gesture by a forum member. I want to give a shout out to John S. Seems as though I'll have a scope base on the way soon

[Josh S.]

Glad I could help!

[alamo5000]

I currently own 5 ARs, 3 AKs, an SKS, a SWD M11/9, too many shotguns, a gaggle of rimfires, saiga12, m44 mosin, yadda yadda yadda....but I'm BRAND SPANKING NEW to precision bolt guns.

I've purchased and waiting on delivery of a Remington 700 AAC 20" in .308. Rifle should be here anyday and I'm itchin already to get it to the range. Which leads me to our first issue, I'm undecided on which scope base to get. I've looked at EGW, Tilley, Weaver, Seekins, Nightforce, you name it! I've all but decided I'm not going to spend $100 on a damn "rail" of a scope base. Hell, I can nearly get 15" of quad rail for the same damn price!!! Although I dont have any local ranges that stretch out to 1000yds or bettter, I still wish to configure it as such and will address this with a 20moa base. I have done some research and plan to bed it if need be. But really, I am looking for some direction on " you dont need to spend $100 for a base" or "man, you're totally wasting time and money buying that $45 base."

help the precision newb


While technically you CAN shoot a .308 out to 1000 yards, it's not that simple. I have done it on several occasions with a 24" bolt gun and some match ammo. My regular shooting spot is a 1400 yard range so I've tried going about as far as you can go with various guns.

The truly effective range of a .308 is about 800 yards and after that it starts getting squirrely. Of course its doable and a lot of fun to try to go farther.

That said you should try to get a scope and mount combination that will allow you at least 50 MOA of adjustment. Plug your numbers into a ballistics calculator and with a 20" barrel you will need at least 50 maybe more. Me personally, I think 1/2 MOA clicks are plenty enough. 1/4 clicks are too many and will cause you more hassle and don't really add much to the game. It's just that much more counting of clicks to deal with.

With a scope and mount combo that will net you at least 50 MOA of adjustment you will be more than good with a .308 all the way out to 1000 yards. Anything more than 50 MOA and it's total overkill for most situations. Again that is talking about most ammo up to about 175 grains or so.

I tried going out past 1000 with 300 WM and didn't get there because the scope ran out of adjustment and with your shorter barrel the same thing would happen out at extreme distances.

However you want to mount your scope is really up to you. I just say do not use some QD or whatever for that kind of rifle. A nice set of rings and you're doing fine.

Personally I would want a fine crosshair and a bubble level. You get just a hair out of level at 1000 yards and it won't be happening. Out to 800 yards though it's way more forgiving.

For that kind of gun I do not see any reason to over spend money on some high dollar whiz bang mounting system that you will never use and that will not add one bit to your ability or the equipment's ability to get to a grand. Get something quality that provides stability for what you need and just go with it.

Again, your total adjustment needs to be at least 50 MOA or equivalent as a baseline to pretty much max out your rifle's capabilities.

[schambers]

FWIW You should start looking at the type of ammunition you plan to use, if you have not already. That's something you definitely should not try to go cheap on.

For someone who is just starting out, I think this is a good product purchasing cycle to follow, until you get comfortable with things.

-Ammo
-Chassis
-Trigger
-Ammo
-Optic
-Barrel
-Repeat

[Slippers]

The stock that comes on the AAC 20" .308 model is rather awful. If you attach a bipod up front and properly load it, the stock will flex upward and touch the barrel.

Trigger isn't too bad. Certainly serviceable until you try out some aftermarket options.

Base/Rings: take a look at TPS on the budget end. The base has the recoil lug. On the high end, I'd personally go Badger, but there's plenty of good options.

Like schambers said, ammo is going to be the main issue. If you're not reloading, the run-of-the-mill surplus m80 ball is awful. You won't know what the rifle is capable of until you try some fed gmm or similar.

You might hit up Ordnance. He's heavy into the PRS and probably has some good advice.

[ksenter]

all of you guys have given excellent information.

May I ask which companies to browse? What Im looking for is someone like BCM, AIMSurplus, Rainier...but for bolt guns. Maybe this doesnt exist.

[Former11B]

I reload for a Remington 700 .308, although with that particular rifle, I stay within 600 yards given I have a 16.5" barrel (granted there is a 7" suppressor on the end of it). I didn't notice a change in accuracy at 300 yards (just velocity) when I dropped down from 20". I'm shooting 168gr Nosler Custom Competition bullets over 42.3gr of Reloder 15 with CCI Match primers and Nosler brass.

[Josh S.]

all of you guys have given excellent information.

May I ask which companies to browse? What Im looking for is someone like BCM, AIMSurplus, Rainier...but for bolt guns. Maybe this doesnt exist.

Check out EuroOptic, MileHighShooting, and CS Tactical, just to name a few.

[SINNER]

Bases and rings are not a place to pinch pennies. That said I have found no better bases than what Ken Farrell offers.

http://www.kenfarrell.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=20_27&product_id=285

[ksenter]

Bases and rings are not a place to pinch pennies. That said I have found no better bases than what Ken Farrell offers.

http://www.kenfarrell.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=20_27&product_id=285

can you elaborate more on what makes one better than the other? This is not a sarcastic question, I'm inquisitive

[Slippers]

Bases and rings are not a place to pinch pennies. That said I have found no better bases than what Ken Farrell offers.

http://www.kenfarrell.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=20_27&product_id=285

What makes his the best? (real question)

[DeviantLogic]

all of you guys have given excellent information.

May I ask which companies to browse? What Im looking for is someone like BCM, AIMSurplus, Rainier...but for bolt guns. Maybe this doesnt exist.

A few more companies to look at...I've had good experience with all of them.

Triad Tactical (https://www.triadtactical.com/home.php), Rifles Only (https://www.riflesonly.com/pro-shop/), and Tactical Works. (https://www.tacticalworks.com)

[SINNER]

can you elaborate more on what makes one better than the other? This is not a sarcastic question, I'm inquisitive

The tolerences held during machining, the quality of the steel used, and the fitment and alignment of the rings to the base.



What makes his the best? (real question)

The ring design and the way it interfaces with his bases and the lapped rings. Ken's ring bases and caps are actually machined from a single piece first then cut and numbered in such a way that not only is the cap matched to the ring but also the orientation of the cap on the ring. I have never used a set of his rings that needed lapped. Other than the one mount I have from Spuhr they are the only ones I have ever used that could not be improved by hand lapping the rings.

[Slippers]

The tolerences held during machining, the quality of the steel used, and the fitment and alignment of the rings to the base.

The ring design and the way it interfaces with his bases and the lapped rings. Ken's ring bases and caps are actually machined from a single piece first then cut and numbered in such a way that not only is the cap matched to the ring but also the orientation of the cap on the ring. I have never used a set of his rings that needed lapped. Other than the one mount I have from Spuhr they are the only ones I have ever used that could not be improved by hand lapping the rings.

I guess what I'm asking is why should I give Farrell my money? The things you list are not exactly compelling arguments, since other manufacturers that are more well known have similar features. Seekins claims that you don't have to lap their rings, and both they and Badger do serialized sets. They also list the specific material, whereas I can't find this info on the Farrell site other than the rings being made of CNC machined steel or aluminum.

Cutting the ring set from a single piece sounds like a good thing. Geissele is doing this with their new mounts. It's not clear if Seekins or Badger do this, at least not from the info they list.

Interestingly, nobody in the top 100 on the PRS from 2014 used Farrell rings: http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/10/28/scope-mounts-what-the-pros-use/. I'll be curious see if they show up in 2015. Obviously not being on the PRS doesn't mean it's a bad product, but those guys can use whatever they want, so it's a good indicator of what is great gear.

[gatordev]

I hate just posting a "here's what I bought, therefore you should buy it" post. That said, when I was researching rings for a bolt gun (which was my first bolt gun), I obsessed about the base, the rings, etc. I'm not going to be in the top 100 of PRS shooters, but I did go to that site and look at trends. After a bunch of research and pricing, I was finding that the usual suspects (NF, Seekins, etc) were at about the same price point or more than American Rifle Company (http://www.americanrifle.com/M10-Scope-Rings.html) M10 rings. While I really loved the Spuhr rings, they weren't worth the money to me.

So I ended up with the M10 rings and have been happy so far. An added bonus of the M10 rings is the lack of the scope rotating in the mount when you start torquing (Slippers' leveler wouldn't fit because of the ring height). Is that a reason to buy them? Certainly not, but after the great reviews I read on them along with their price-point, it seemed like a nice extra worth noting.

I'm hoping to get some more use out of them in 2016, but so far, they've been as advertised.

[ksenter]

wanna give a shoutout to John S. which donated a scope base he was not using any longer. Excellent guy

[Josh S.]

No problem, OP. I'm glad I was able to help you out. And btw it's Josh, not John haha. Is it bad that I actually scrolled to the top to double check my username? Lol


So I ended up with the M10 rings and have been happy so far. An added bonus of the M10 rings is the lack of the scope rotating in the mount when you start torquing (Slippers' leveler wouldn't fit because of the ring height). Is that a reason to buy them? Certainly not, but after the great reviews I read on them along with their price-point, it seemed like a nice extra worth noting.

I'm hoping to get some more use out of them in 2016, but so far, they've been as advertised.

I've talked to a few guys over the years who have way more experience in precision shooting than myself and swear by ARC M10 rings. I've never owned a set personally but I have heard nothing but great things about them. If I were to buy a set of rings today they would be either Seekins, ARC, or Badger.

[ksenter]

No problem, OP. I'm glad I was able to help you out. And btw it's Josh, not John haha. Is it bad that I actually scrolled to the top to double check my username? Lol



I've talked to a few guys over the years who have way more experience in precision shooting than myself and swear by ARC M10 rings. I've never owned a set personally but I have heard nothing but great things about them. If I were to buy a set of rings today they would be either Seekins, ARC, or Badger.

not quite as bad as me having double checked so I didnt flub your name before I flubbed your name. my apologies