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alamo5000
17 February 2016, 14:57
This is for those of you who have a suppressor and/or an SBR or pistol build or hell even a 9mm with a can on it. The shorter barrels are obnoxiously more loud but they are also a lot more dirty than say a 16" gun. Of course both get dirty but my observation is that shorter barrels will cause your gun to get way more dirty when shooting suppressed in a side by side comparison.

Some of you indicate that 'you don't clean crap' or that you basically don't really clean your guns all that often but I am wondering if anyone has experienced failures because of having a dirty, gummed up, or fouled gun and what those failures were.

Really I guess this could apply to pistols in general as well. My 9mm can is still in jail but I am guessing I will have to clean my pistols a lot more often once my other can breaks out of jail.

So has anyone experienced any kind of failure (of any kind) and what is your round count before you clean things up? 200 rounds? 500 rounds? Or just when you feel like it?

For example if one shoots 500 rounds with an SBR or 5.56 pistol (with a suppressor) could it cause things like the bolt to not go forward to full battery, or misfeeds, or anything else that you can think of? What about on a 9mm pistol?

Sak007
17 February 2016, 15:15
I generally clean it after every time I shoot unless i'm only firing under 100 rounds during load testing . After a couple hundred rounds of suppressed 300blk on an 8.5in barrel I notice the barrel is generally clean and I need to clean my bcg , upper receiver , charging handle & tops of my magazine and followers . No scrubbing necessary just wiping of the grime as Frog Lube seems to keep everything easy to clean and makes it hard to not justify a cleaning . I haven't had any dirt related failures , and any I have had have been impropperly reloaded ammo .So I try to keep things running smoothly and keep it clean .

gatordev
17 February 2016, 15:54
For example if one shoots 500 rounds with an SBR or 5.56 pistol (with a suppressor) could it cause things like the bolt to not go forward to full battery, or misfeeds, or anything else that you can think of?

Technically, yes. But I'd argue more times than not, it's a lack of lube that's causing issues than grime. Perhaps the caveats to that are either a) actual dirt in the chamber or b) a corroded action/barrel (something I'm fighting with a 5.45 gun now that gets shot with corrosive ammo, but that's a different animal). Even with the corroded barrel, a little lube and it's back in action...however inaccurately it shoots.

alamo5000
17 February 2016, 16:11
Technically, yes. But I'd argue more times than not, it's a lack of lube that's causing issues than grime. Perhaps the caveats to that are either a) actual dirt in the chamber or b) a corroded action/barrel (something I'm fighting with a 5.45 gun now that gets shot with corrosive ammo, but that's a different animal). Even with the corroded barrel, a little lube and it's back in action...however inaccurately it shoots.

In your opinion do suppressed SBRs need more lube since they are more dirty? Of course it won't matter with 100 or 200 rounds... but 500 rounds in would it make a difference? Also one would assume that all those hot gasses being momentarily trapped over and over again combined with more carbon... it could be so... I guess...

Edit: More can mean more frequent or it can mean using more at any one given time or both...

gatordev
17 February 2016, 18:52
I'm not a thousand-round-a-weekend shooter, but from what I've seen shooting pretty regularly as well as all of the "shooting a gun for 1 million rounds without cleaning" threads/articles (see BCM or KAC's SR-15) is that it's a matter of lube burning off and not carbon build-up by itself. What's cool about the Stoner design is the (relative) self-cleaning system as it cycles. I tend to have more sluggish actions with NiB BCGs after a couple hundred rounds suppressed compared to phosphate. Not always, but I think part of the problem is the phosphate holds the lube a little better than the slick NiB parts. With either, a drop or two of lube in the cam pin and bolt interface makes the issue go away.

But this is all anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth.

ETA: I run my guns quite a bit before cleaning them, but they get lube every range session. So to answer your "more...period of time vs shooting" question, again, shooting more doesn't seem to be the issue, but keeping them wet makes it possible.

UWone77
17 February 2016, 18:56
ETA: I run my guns quite a bit before cleaning them, but they get lube every range session. So to answer your "more...period of time vs shooting" question, again, shooting more doesn't seem to be the issue, but keeping them wet makes it possible.

This pretty much sums up my cleaning regiment.

alamo5000
17 February 2016, 19:31
I'm not a thousand-round-a-weekend shooter, but from what I've seen shooting pretty regularly as well as all of the "shooting a gun for 1 million rounds without cleaning" threads/articles (see BCM or KAC's SR-15) is that it's a matter of lube burning off and not carbon build-up by itself. What's cool about the Stoner design is the (relative) self-cleaning system as it cycles. I tend to have more sluggish actions with NiB BCGs after a couple hundred rounds suppressed compared to phosphate. Not always, but I think part of the problem is the phosphate holds the lube a little better than the slick NiB parts. With either, a drop or two of lube in the cam pin and bolt interface makes the issue go away.

But this is all anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth.

ETA: I run my guns quite a bit before cleaning them, but they get lube every range session. So to answer your "more...period of time vs shooting" question, again, shooting more doesn't seem to be the issue, but keeping them wet makes it possible.

That's a very good answer. Thanks!

That was one thing I was kind of getting at... 'lube burning off'... Of course nobody needs a scientific study to know that they should keep their gun lubed but it does seem like with a shorter barrel it's a lot easier to shoot harder. Maybe because it's just more fun so I blow through more ammo [:D]

That said it's a whole world of difference between carefully trying to get on a 600 yard target and trying to blast at 50 yards. I can go through 200 rounds in several hours trying to do long range plinking and I will come away having felt like I had fun... but with the blaster that seems like 200 rounds won't last very long. Now combine that with more heat and yeah maybe some more carbon but so far it seems like more frequent lubrication is needed.

Deadwing
17 February 2016, 19:36
About the only thing i clean with any regularity are the pistons/Nielsen devices on my pistol cans. Everything else, to include suppressed SBRs, gets lubed before each range session, a bore snake run through the barrel after, and lubed again before they're put back in the safe. My experience echoes what gatordev said: keeping everything well lubricated seems to be key in preventing/reducing failures as opposed to keeping things squeaky clean.

alamo5000
17 February 2016, 19:47
My experience echoes what gatordev said: keeping everything well lubricated seems to bey key in preventing/reducing failures as opposed to keeping things squeaky clean.

YUP! What prompted this is I have had a couple things... first I already notice some minor wear on my BGC... I also had a couple times where the bolt didn't go all the way back to battery. It's only happened after shooting a bit and things heat up. All indications are that I need to be more liberal with the lube and pay more attention to it, especially since I seem to be running the gun quite a bit harder than I do my other guns.

I am assuming I am going to burn up a lot of 9mm when my can gets out of jail so I will need to watch that as well.

Former11B
17 February 2016, 20:09
After shooting suppressed, I disassemble (and clean because it's a convenient time) and inspect the host weapon(s) and suppressor(s) because the heating and cooling cycles can generate condensation. If placed back in the safe without being at least double checked, you might find a rusty mess the next time you go to shoot. This can occur in the suppressor itself or even along the barrel bore and further into the rifle if the condensation is running down the barrel into the chamber.

I clean everything and reattach the cans and back in the safe they go.

From SilencerResearch:

Moisture Accumulation and Weapon Storage

Water is a major byproduct of gunpowder combustion. A good suppressor will capture and retain a considerable amount of the liquid. Twenty shots from a .308 will cause about a teaspoonful of water to be captured. Whenever possible, the weapon should be carried and stored with the muzzle pointing straight down. The bolt or action should remain open to allow accumulated water to evaporate and vent. If the suppressor is removed as soon as the shooting stops, heat in the suppressor will rapidly dry most of the internal components.

Unfortunately, most rifles are traditionally stored muzzle-up. This causes water and trapped particulates to slowly release, where they will fall and lodge in the chamber area and bolt face. Burned gunpowder is quite dirty, and the inside of a suppressor is usually filthy. Cleaning is best accomplished by flushing the can in solvent, draining, and blowing the unit out with compressed air. One should get in the habit of storing a suppressed rifle by hanging it, muzzle-down. Even stainless steel components will rust if trapped water is not allowed to vent. This may result in a suppressor rusted tightly to its barrel. A bore with rust near its muzzle may lose its accuracy. Corrosion can occur quickly in a warm, moist environment. This is not an aspect to be ignored.

Deadwing
17 February 2016, 20:19
Interesting point on the formation of condensation. I normally remove the can from the host weapon after shooting, and they stay off until the next time i shoot. The exception to the rule is my HD weapon, which gets the can re-installed after i get home and run a bore snake through it and lubricate it.

gatordev
18 February 2016, 02:40
YUP! What prompted this is I have had a couple things... first I already notice some minor wear on my BGC... I also had a couple times where the bolt didn't go all the way back to battery. It's only happened after shooting a bit and things heat up. All indications are that I need to be more liberal with the lube and pay more attention to it, especially since I seem to be running the gun quite a bit harder than I do my other guns.


There's also such a thing as too much. Not because you'll hurt anything, but because you'll end up getting a facial full of lube. And no one likes that. Well, maybe some people do, but this isn't that part of the internet.

MoxyDave
18 February 2016, 13:54
I usually get 250-300 rounds off in my suppressed ARs before the bolt starts to gum up and slow down. A shot of lube will get me another 200 or so, but the lube blows out much more quickly on a suppressed weapon. I clean a suppressed weapon every time I shoot it. I started doing this after I noticed how much water was left in the weapon, as others have mentioned. Had some rust problems at one time since I didn't clean right away. Easy enough to break it down, run a rag over things and throw it back together. You don't have to get out the q-tips and dental picks ... just wipe it down, run a snake through the bore, get all the water out of the buffer tube, etc. Super easy, takes 10 minutes tops. I don't bother trying to clean suppressors, other than .22lr. The blast from firing will vaporize anything in there and shoot it out the end.