Tactical Gear???

[alamo5000]

I am wondering what are all the options or basic components of a tactical set up. Some of you guys who have been in the military would probably be able to shed some light. Probably some police would too.

Truth is I have never been in a gun fight and probably won't ever get in one, but let's say I want to be able to carry what I need to carry in a better package. Honestly I am just asking out of curiosity but there are a few things I would consider buying for sure.

Here is what I came up with as to a setup... feel free to add, correct, or take away, or just flat out comment.

-Knee pads... this to me seems like a very good idea. If one was mixing it up and you had to drop or kneel behind a car or whatever that would make life a lot more comfortable. I am sure I could get some at Home Depot.

-Belts--- this is something that could be interesting. Some belts are to hold up your pants and some are to hold holsters and extra mags. I am not talking about a leather belt. I tried one on before that was really nice but I forgot the brand name.

-A vest or a plate carrier with molle on it. I am completely unfamiliar with that for the most part but I would be interested to learn. First you have the carrier and then you have the plates. I imagine it's a balance between being bullet proof and a weight and mobility trade off.
I am not really sure how plates are rated but based on youtube some are designed to seperate and capture splash to keep it from deflecting in your face or whatever.

-Gloves. If it's cold as hell outside of course you don't want your fingers freezing off but in warm environments what would the best use of gloves be for?

I am curious mainly about options for carrying 30 round AR mags (or even 20 round mags) on your body in a way that isn't in the way. I am also curious about a setup to carry a side arm and extra mags at the same time. After that maybe some sort of vest or plate carrier might be an option.

For all you military types... if you were going into a situation what do you carry? Obviously you can't carry it all and it should probably be centered around the job you're going into I would imagine.


If you have pics that would be cool. We can have a picture thread as well [:D]

[tappedandtagged]

Here is what I would go with:

5.11 pants with the neoprene knee pads installed. I love them for training on the range, take them out for patrol. If I knew I were going into something, I'd put them in if I had time (note, I've never had time.)

Basic LEO nylon gun belt with cuffs x2, pistol mags x2, o/c spray, ASP and low ride holster (not drop leg, I'm fortunate enough to be tall enough my handgun clears my vest without the drop leg). Seriously, get that sidearm as close to the waistline as you physically can.

Gloves, I really like my Mechanix.

Long sleeves, cause you never know when you're going through a door or getting showered with broken glass.

Lvl IIIA vest with arm pads and plates if they're supplied (note, they aren't supplied). On the MOLLE vest, rifle/ extra pistol mags, IFAK with tourney, extra tourney on the front and gas mask on the back.

Rifle: basic M4gery with a tourney on the buttstock with vet wrap. Oh, and a weapon mounted light, even during the day.

Don't forget the Kevlar helmet and clear eye pro.

A couple bottles of water (Be prepared to share with the stack, everyone forgets this on game day). I usually shove these in my cargo pockets as an afterthought.

Also, at the last minute, someone throws you an orange stocked shotgun and hydro rounds and the rifle gets slung on your back.

That's just me and mine. Disclaimer, small city with minimum call outs. Yeah, 9 years (only 3 with SWAT), two call outs. The second one put so much stress on my wife she popped out my second daughter a few hours after the guy surrendered. That said, I'm sure others will have better set ups, especially the .mil guys.

I'll see about trying to get artsy with my point and shoot camera later. Right now, time to go to bed.

[alamo5000]

Thanks for the response.

The main thing I am looking for is a general set up to where I can carry extra mags and a sidearm. Wearing body armor I guess would be an option. But I do have a thought process to all this.

I guess I should say that everything should be purpose driven and I have no illusions that I won't be a cop any time soon if ever. 99% of my shooting is leisure only. No clocks, no bad guys... just having fun. That said it would be nice to be prepared with a simple kit that I could throw on with the main idea being carrying extra mags with that I can practice more mag swaps and stuff like that.

More than anything though having that stuff will help me work on more skills as a shooter, that could be 3 gun or whatever. It's all stuff I've never really done before but I want to try out. At this point I can stand there and blast away at a steel plate and when I run out of ammo walk back to the kabota and get a fresh mag. Long story short more than anything that stops me from practicing a more rounded shooting sports kind of thing even up to an including (maybe) 2 gun or 3 gun competition skills.

I have holsters and all that but everything is for concealment...not so much expanding out those kinds of other skills...running, shooting, transitions from rifle to pistol, or whatever.

I saw this video from GA but honestly I have been thinking about upping my level of practice for a while now, long before that video came out. It's WAY MORE than me being some kind of mall ninja or whatever I think it would serve two purposes... the first to let me expand my shooting sports practice into new areas that aren't just standing at 10 yards shooting a plate with a pistol... that would be 98% of it and the other 2% would be the off chance that I need to do anything else.

https://www.facebook.com/172008254568/videos/10154655476679569/?pnref=story

Click the link there to see the video...

That kind of skill set is really a lot more of what I am talking about... learning to do more of that. So whatever kind of kit I would need to get there is more along the lines of what I am after.

[alamo5000]

Hopefully the last post there sheds more light on my intentions....which might not have come across well in my original post...

[UWone77]

Sounds like you need to take a carbine class instead of wasting your money on tactical gear. I've got a closet full of gear I wasted my money on when I first became a LEO. As time went on and I gained more skills, I've learned I need a lot less gear. Yeah, it's fun shopping for it, but when it comes to real world use, 99% of us just need a belt.

[Thompson]

Yeah, it's fun shopping for it, but when it comes to real world use, 99% of us just need a belt.
Can I assume that you are also including at least like a mag caddy with said belt as well?

[UWone77]

Can I assume that you are also including at least like a mag caddy with said belt as well?

No, you just need a belt to hold your pants up. [BD][:D]

[Army203]

Have you trained in body armor? Texas gets damn hot and I can tell you right now from having been stationed there, that if you haven't, a bullet is the least of your issues. Second are you wanting a SHTF type rig? Have you ever trained with an IFAK? Are you in shape enough to work well wearing all that shit?

Most of what you will need in a carbine class is just a typical "war" belt. Like UWone77 said, take that money and dump it into software instead of hardware. Trust me, it will pay off in spades.

[alamo5000]

Sounds like you need to take a carbine class instead of wasting your money on tactical gear. I've got a closet full of gear I wasted my money on when I first became a LEO. As time went on and I gained more skills, I've learned I need a lot less gear. Yeah, it's fun shopping for it, but when it comes to real world use, 99% of us just need a belt.

Absolutely on the class. It is for sure on the agenda at some point. I actually hate shopping for most things. I think I am part Jewish or something because I am kind of cheap with my money until I decide exactly what I want.


Have you trained in body armor? Texas gets damn hot and I can tell you right now from having been stationed there, that if you haven't, a bullet is the least of your issues. Second are you wanting a SHTF type rig? Have you ever trained with an IFAK? Are you in shape enough to work well wearing all that shit?

Most of what you will need in a carbine class is just a typical "war" belt. Like UWone77 said, take that money and dump it into software instead of hardware. Trust me, it will pay off in spades.

By nature I am a very minimalistic kind of person. If it has no purpose or if it will just sit in the closet for 3 years why spend the money on it? Which if I go full on full on tactical with too much stuff I probably won't make use of most of it. (Just being realistic)

The idea of the belt sounds great, but what kind of belt and how many mags and what all can you hang on the thing? That is in fact something along the lines of what I was thinking to start with... not so much helmet and flack jackets and combat boots. I am guessing a belt rig wouldn't break the bank too much.

For now it might not be a total SHTF rig but rather just something simple to allow me to try out the stuff I want to try out before I start spending major bucks in gear and classes. A belt or some other kind of rig that will allow me to carry a few AR mags and a few pistol mags... as well as a OTW holster for a pistol would be about all I would want right now until I learn more and decide just how good or how far I want to take all this.

At this point it's generally just boxes of ammo on the tail gate of a truck or whatever...

I am from Texas so I am 100% familiar with the heat. I grew up in the August heat and humidity. Again though I am not really doing all that stuff to punish myself. If I "gear up" and go out in the back yard and shoot 3 or 4 rifle mags and 3 or 4 pistol mags late in the evening... then walk 100 yards or so back to the air conditioner then that's fine.

I think a regiment like that a couple times a week will allow me to practice a whole lot more stuff on a more frequent basis without breaking the bank ammo wise or gear wise. If I need to set up new targets or put barrels out there I can do whatever I want in that regard. This stuff for the most part is 100% hobby.

Basically I am not really looking for something to take over a building in Iraq. If I get into it and later I want some armor I can try that too.

A class is for sure on the agenda but I still want to have some kind of basic set up to carry mags more than anything so that I can do transitions and run around shooting around barriers or whatever. At the end of the day I want to be the guy that knows more of what he's doing.

As for being in shape I am in decent enough shape to get started and give it a go... but part of that is to give me fun, an exercise routine, as well as a fun hobby all three in one.

A "war belt" is kind of what I think would be best to be honest. Then I can pick up some gloves and knee pads if I decide I even want those later. If I get that far that will be great. Even if I don't run and gun like an expert at very least I can carry mags with me in something other than a backpack. Then I can have fun with it and enroll in a course when I find one that fits my needs.

[alamo5000]

Have you ever trained with an IFAK?

Nope. For the most part I shoot alone with some exceptions when we get the boys together... but some of them now have small children and all that so our weekends of blowing $1200 bucks worth of ammo are few and far in between now.

What I am wanting to do is practice more skills related stuff so the belt is probably the way to go. When I go shoot with friends they tend to just bring tannerite and we blow stuff up. In one afternoon with them we might shoot an AK, an AR, some skeet, and 4 pistols... It's not a real structured skill related thing.

But on my own I want to start doing a little more than that and see if I like it.

[voodoo_man]

LOL @ trexarms dude and gear.

running and gunning all over the range and real world use is literally apples to hand grenades.

That video is lawls....radio on the back? Talk about snag central. Ever had someone punch you in the back? It's similar to that, except constantly when you are doing anything other than standing still.

The stuff I use for work (LE) is sometimes different than stuff I use for range/HD/training.

Mission drives gear, not the other way around.

Figure out what your mission is then buy gear to match your requirements, nothing more or less.

[alamo5000]

I was just googling around and I found this:

http://www.amazon.com/Condor-Rapid-Assault-Chest-Rig/dp/B00CZA3SI4

I don't want to spend a bunch of money on crap stuff but something along those lines might be something to consider. There are too many styles and variations to go into. I assume with that I could also carry some extra 9mm mags as well and they would be relatively out of the way.

Then you have this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/topgunpilot20/Guns/belt_rig_01_web.jpg

There could be any number of variations on that one too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v683/undertheshadowhc/warbelt.jpg


Then there is a setup something like this:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6Ta8t16lrk

[alamo5000]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IEOtvupVnE

[alamo5000]

While it's more about the skill than anything I am just curious about you guy's thoughts on the subject in general including gear and what may or may not work for you....

[gatordev]

One thing I find really annoying about belts is that they ride up when bending over or squatting unless you have some sort of capture system. I run a belt all the time (class, competition, specific training), but I run a Velcro...I mean hook and loop... inner belt in my pants and then the "war belt" on the outside. The Velcro keeps the belt in place when I move all about and I don't get annoyed. Win, win.

[Stone]

I'm not a fan of the battle belts. I either run a lightweight chest rig or my PC. Start with a LW chest rig. I have 2 of these and they work great http://www.lapolicegear.com/aa-ascr-1-rig.html

I also have two of these on the left side of it. http://www.tacticalassaultgearstore.com/packs-bags-pouches/mag-pouches/molle-universal-pistol-mag-enhanced.html It has elastic and a magnet in it for retention, excellent product. Then I run a paddle holster for my secondary and carbine. Stay away from mag pouches that have flaps, they suck hairy balls. And double stack rifle mag pouches as well, bulk sucks. Simple and effective is the way to go. Fight light... As far as an IFAK goes just slap another mag pouch on the chest rig and stick an Israeli bandage and a tourniquet in it and call it a day. To many mall ninjas running giant medical kits and don't have a clue how to use it.

[Bronco75]

Here is a perspective from a guy just like yourself, no MIL or LEO experience...

You can have whatever tactical wet dream you want...when it comes down to it...you have no tactical experience aside from knowing how to operate your weapon and shooting groups at a target that does not move. Maybe you are a hunter, and you can effectively stalk some of the dumbest animals on the planet. At the end of the day, none of this will really help you survive. You can take whatever tactical rifle class you want, unless you practice those skills on a monthly basis at the very least, it's useless. You then have to assume that in a stressful environment, you can maintain those skills. I jump on the couch playing COD it surround sound...and I know that shit is not real. I am going to be the equivalent of throwing a handful of ammunition in the campfire...unpredictable and firing in all directions.

My strategy is to keep my ass in my house where I have multiple weapons and ammunition and wait for UWone77 and the cavalry to come save my ass and give me a clean pair of underwear.

[voodoo_man]

*facepalm*

haley and falla? in one thread?

fml...

please stahp

no battle belts

[voodoo_man]

My strategy is to keep my ass in my house where I have multiple weapons and ammunition and wait for UWone77 and the cavalry to come save my ass and give me a clean pair of underwear.

http://41.media.tumblr.com/daabfe9efd66639900a436403df19787/tumblr_ne77ml0Exj1tuyxqvo1_500.jpg

[alamo5000]

*facepalm*

haley and falla? in one thread?



I put them up there just for you. [:D]

[alamo5000]

http://41.media.tumblr.com/daabfe9efd66639900a436403df19787/tumblr_ne77ml0Exj1tuyxqvo1_500.jpg

Yes, I agree with this sentiment. I am not going to go looking for trouble, but if compelled to do so I will be the aggressor and I will win.

NO ONE. And I mean NO ONE has the right to inflict harm on me. I am of the mind that some people (criminally minded folks) are in need of getting shot especially if they have the intention to harm anyone.

I have zero problem with that...

But my 'training' and all that is dual use. 95% of it is for sheer enjoyment. The other 5% is just in case.

[Army203]

*facepalm*

haley and falla? in one thread?

fml...

please stahp

no battle belts

Not to thread jack, but did you hear about his response to the ND Video?

[alamo5000]

LOL @ trexarms dude and gear.

running and gunning all over the range and real world use is literally apples to hand grenades.

The stuff I use for work (LE) is sometimes different than stuff I use for range/HD/training.

Mission drives gear, not the other way around.

Figure out what your mission is then buy gear to match your requirements, nothing more or less.

My mission now is to practice and get better at various skill sets. When it comes to strictly shooting I can do that but I want to learn more and varied exercises.

I am kind of torn about what exactly I want to hone but I guess I will share my theories. Right or wrong you're probably the right guy to lay it on.

My theory is that I should play the 'if' game as you talked about before. I actually do that from time to time.

If I come home (very rural area) and I see a car in the driveway and people in the house what am I going to do? Several years ago some burglars killed someone in just that scenario a few miles from here (if I remember correctly it was an older lady).

What if I am driving down the road and traffic gets stopped and there is some kind of crazy road rage incident in the middle of the street?

(I had that happen to me. A big black woman that looked like she could move furniture for a living was trying to beat my window in while I was stuck in traffic. I had a .45 and I didn't even have to pull it but she knew I meant business and it calmed her ass down and she stepped back)

What if there is a hurricane and people decide they are going to start looting? That's happened too although not right in my neighborhood. In addition to that after a big storm utilities were out for a week. Naturally crime spiked.

When a big hurricane was headed for Houston a massive evacuation had to move millions of people and it was sheer chaos. But it makes you wonder what would happen if people weren't so polite to each other in that situation?

http://www.wnyc.org/i/raw/1/transportation201105hurricane-rita.png

http://citycomfortsblog.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/picture_2_1.png

I also saw a group of about 6 guys exit their cars and chase down a guy on a motorcycle while we were all stuck in traffic. Fortunately he got away but it happened so fast we were like WTF is going on? That was in the city (Houston) and to be honest there is no guarantee that at some point I might have to move back down into that chaos again.

Long story short in an effort to be self aware I sometimes go through mental drills playing the 'what if' game periodically through the day sometimes.

As for tactics I am of the mind that no one situation would have the same reaction. It might not be the best idea to run around or whatever. It might be better to find cover. In other situations it might be best to take it to em. If I was walking down the mall and someone tried to do what they did in the mall in Kenya what would I do? Find cover or attack?

There is no way I could be ready for every situation but a small gun is better than no gun. But other situations might be better to just put on a chest rig or a belt with some extra mags and take my AR. I just want to be able to use cover and learn more about that kind of thing so if the day ever comes I will be ready.

[alamo5000]

Not to thread jack, but did you hear about his response to the ND Video?

Explain because everybody knows I don't follow any of this stuff. [:D]

BTW What does everyone think of Instructor Zero? I am just curious. Some of his videos are pretty cool. I saw one where he slapped down James Yeager.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOsvWFlUtNM

[Army203]

Explain because everybody knows I don't follow any of this stuff. [:D]

BTW What does everyone think of Instructor Zero? I am just curious. Some of his videos are pretty cool. I saw one where he slapped down James Yeager.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOsvWFlUtNM

These Matt Best videos sum up how I feel about most of that. Second video has the clip of TH at 1:07.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBaISwLnrgo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQN0ncPmOsY

[alamo5000]

Second video has the clip of TH at 1:07.

Ouch.

[Farva]

Playing the "what if game" or "war gaming" as we call it is a good first step to being mentally prepared for s fight. I have to echo some of the guys' statements. I have s battle belt and it serves it's propose but doesn't move around when squatting or whatever. I prefer a duty belt setup that is either attached with keepers or hook and loop or both. It doesn't move and has everything where you need it. Your faster reloads are generally going to be from the belt line anyway compared to say a chest rig or PC.

[alamo5000]

Playing the "what if game" or "war gaming" as we call it is a good first step to being mentally prepared for s fight. I have to echo some of the guys' statements. I have s battle belt and it serves it's propose but doesn't move around when squatting or whatever. I prefer a duty belt setup that is either attached with keepers or hook and loop or both. It doesn't move and has everything where you need it. Your faster reloads are generally going to be from the belt line anyway compared to say a chest rig or PC.

What's the difference between a battle belt and a duty belt? Can you show me pics?

[voodoo_man]

On my phone and on the go so ill make it short.


Covert, not overt.

When overt go big, because you are a target.

Just enough gear that you can do what you must, meaning carrying a helmet with nods when you drive to and from work during the day is pointless and just a waste of time.

Learn to move and shoot around people, moving people and not shooting people who do not need to be shot is a very good skill set to have.

#1 is target discriminaton
#2 mission success
#3 sustainability

If you lack skillset search those who can teach you that skillset.

Disregard all dogma and find what works for you.


And lets never mention the retarded step children of the training industry again...

[voodoo_man]

Ohh and mindset.

Mindset is more important than any training you will ever have.

Readiness traingle: are you ready?

To be ready....

are you willing?
are you able?
are you prepared?

[Joelski]

And lets never mention the retarded step children of the training industry again...

BAM!

[Farva]

What's the difference between a battle belt and a duty belt? Can you show me pics?

A duty belt setup is what LEO wear on a daily basis. They attach to an under belt of some kind either by hook and loop or keepers. (Please ignore the awful looking basket weave pattern.)
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160222/4c1019380757c9c5b2b5ead31feb633f.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160222/2a3529a87077779045696ac88cb1fd56.jpg

A battle belt or "war belt" is generally a stand alone system that doesn't necessarily need an under belt to attach to, although there are states out there that do but I personally would loop them into the same category as a duty belt.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160222/dbf256d60ff8ec56afd49b9e9adc5fe3.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160222/c8f97e115ce158859febc486cf4399c6.jpg

[UWone77]

Farva your duty gear is almost setup like mine but mine is non basket weave [:D] but much more beat up looking!

[Joelski]

I vote for Vionex or PAWS. Buy it if you have to. Have you seen the portable UV autoclave lights? You can decon your cruiser of perp-bourne ick in 20 minutes!

[Joelski]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160222/c8f97e115ce158859febc486cf4399c6.jpg

EAT, NOOB!!!

[:D]

[GriffonSec]

For when I had to drag all that gear around for work, never quite had to use it. Eventually I dropped to pistol, couple of mags, couple of cuffs, spray and latex gloves. Cuffs and gloves got the most use.

The one time I HAD to defend myself, shorts and tshirt taking out the trash, pistol in the door. When I'm on the range, I use the stuff I carry every day. Couple of mags and pistol, jeans and T. I don't want to be at the local Wally parking lot reaching for my thigh or chest looking for something that ain't on my MMA t-shirt at the time.

I'll keep chest rigs/belts in the cupboard with the Twinkies.

I kid about the MMA part....and please don't take this as a shot on those that choose to run those things. It's just I've personally found that under stress, your muscles have memory and react accordingly.

[Farva]

These photos were taken off the internet. It was easier to do that the. Get shots of my own right now. I'll see if I can do that in the next day or so.

[voodoo_man]

My mission now is to practice and get better at various skill sets. When it comes to strictly shooting I can do that but I want to learn more and varied exercises.

I am kind of torn about what exactly I want to hone but I guess I will share my theories. Right or wrong you're probably the right guy to lay it on.

My theory is that I should play the 'if' game as you talked about before. I actually do that from time to time.

If I come home (very rural area) and I see a car in the driveway and people in the house what am I going to do? Several years ago some burglars killed someone in just that scenario a few miles from here (if I remember correctly it was an older lady).

What if I am driving down the road and traffic gets stopped and there is some kind of crazy road rage incident in the middle of the street?

(I had that happen to me. A big black woman that looked like she could move furniture for a living was trying to beat my window in while I was stuck in traffic. I had a .45 and I didn't even have to pull it but she knew I meant business and it calmed her ass down and she stepped back)

What if there is a hurricane and people decide they are going to start looting? That's happened too although not right in my neighborhood. In addition to that after a big storm utilities were out for a week. Naturally crime spiked.

When a big hurricane was headed for Houston a massive evacuation had to move millions of people and it was sheer chaos. But it makes you wonder what would happen if people weren't so polite to each other in that situation?

http://www.wnyc.org/i/raw/1/transportation201105hurricane-rita.png

http://citycomfortsblog.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/picture_2_1.png

I also saw a group of about 6 guys exit their cars and chase down a guy on a motorcycle while we were all stuck in traffic. Fortunately he got away but it happened so fast we were like WTF is going on? That was in the city (Houston) and to be honest there is no guarantee that at some point I might have to move back down into that chaos again.

Long story short in an effort to be self aware I sometimes go through mental drills playing the 'what if' game periodically through the day sometimes.

As for tactics I am of the mind that no one situation would have the same reaction. It might not be the best idea to run around or whatever. It might be better to find cover. In other situations it might be best to take it to em. If I was walking down the mall and someone tried to do what they did in the mall in Kenya what would I do? Find cover or attack?

There is no way I could be ready for every situation but a small gun is better than no gun. But other situations might be better to just put on a chest rig or a belt with some extra mags and take my AR. I just want to be able to use cover and learn more about that kind of thing so if the day ever comes I will be ready.

reread this again, there are a lots of things that you are hitting on, but the main issue I see is a possible lack of confidence in implementing your current setup.

That's a good topic to cover...I think I want to write a little article on it...

[rob_s]

Playing the "what if game" or "war gaming" as we call it is a good first step to being mentally prepared for s fight.

I disagree. Strongly.

Playing the what-if game is what led to a guy with zero training starting a thread asking what plate carrier he should buy.

To the OP... I'll repeat what others have said and say go get in a class. And I'll contradict a lot of them and say that what class doesn't really matter. I don't care if it's Haley, Falla, Costa, whoever, just go take a class. And make it a pistol class. And focus on pistol gear, skills, and equipment. You are just flat not going to be using an AR is a defensive situation. If you got take a pistol class, do some competition shooting, achieve a Sharpshooter or B-rating in IDPA or USPSA, then you can go worry about the SHTFantasy of the day and stock up on plate carriers, blow out kits, suppressed SBRs, and whatever other LARPing equipment you think you might need. and take a carbine class. If the class you sign up for requires a chest rig or battle belt to carry the gear you need, you signed up for the wrong class.

[SINNER]

I'm just planning on being a warlord when the shit goes down.

[alamo5000]

I disagree. Strongly.

Playing the what-if game is what led to a guy with zero training starting a thread asking what plate carrier he should buy.


Let me correct you on a couple of things... I didn't start out asking 'which plate carrier' in the context that you're trying to put it. I asked (at least I tried to ask) what is a good basic set up for me to carry extra mags so that my fun shooting can be more fun. So that after I empty a magazine I don't have to walk back to the truck to get another one.

Yes I do want to practice 'speed drills' or whatever, but I want something very basic to start with. It will be primarily for my own fun and to add another element to my own enjoyment of shooting. I want to start doing more than merely just standing there at 10 yards plinking on a steel plate. Yes it's kind of turned into other things here and that's fine as all those things are intertwined with each other. The insight is all very helpful.

I am shooting for fun 99% of the time. But I wanted to get several good options from people with experience with things. Will my hobby skills carry over? Yes absolutely. To me, standing there just trigger pulling is one thing, but putting up barrels in my back yard and shooting around barriers and moving around more while I shoot will be more fun. And of course it could come in handy should the .1% chance arise that I ever face a mob of looters or enter a 2 gun competition.

The basics though is more along the lines of 'which holster is best for my situation' only a little bit more complex since I plan to try and do other things. That could be me just having fun, that could be me entering a two or three gun competition, or it could be me going to multiple classes as they become available.

As for classes though I am not opposed to it by any stretch of the imagination. That said I will do my homework because I want to make sure the class is going to be something practical for my situation. Plus I have to save up to do that stuff.

At the end of the day class or no class I still kind of want a basic set up to work with. It doesn't have to be big or expensive, just effective for my needs.

Imagine if you had a person who just finished his concealed carry class and has a gun that fits him, but is wondering now 'which kind of holster is best for me to use for concealed carry'? Although in my situation I am past that and trying to do more than that and from a different angle.

There is no 100% right for everyone answer but there is some 'a lot more wrong' answers... the idea again is for me to get some ideas from people in the know that won't give me any bullshit answers that get what I am trying to go for and help me precisely to NOT be a mall ninja.

Again it's 95% fun and 5% the other stuff (for me) at this point.

[voodoo_man]

I'm just planning on being a warlord when the shit goes down.

There can be only one!

[alamo5000]

reread this again, there are a lots of things that you are hitting on, but the main issue I see is a possible lack of confidence in implementing your current setup.

That's a good topic to cover...I think I want to write a little article on it...

I look forward to reading whatever you write up... as always I am sure it will be excellent.

Shed some light though on what you mean by 'possible lack of confidence'... I mean yeah that's true in a sense...I wouldn't be here asking if I knew it all LOL!

I am pretty much at the phase of trying to transition myself from country boy with a gun to trying to learn more 'other stuff'...and I am prepare to shut up and listen to get there if that makes any sense.

[alamo5000]

I'm just planning on being a warlord when the shit goes down.

HAAHAAA! LOL.

Good plan!

[voodoo_man]

I look forward to reading whatever you write up... as always I am sure it will be excellent.

Shed some light though on what you mean by 'possible lack of confidence'... I mean yeah that's true in a sense...I wouldn't be here asking if I knew it all LOL!

I am pretty much at the phase of trying to transition myself from country boy with a gun to trying to learn more 'other stuff'...and I am prepare to shut up and listen to get there if that makes any sense.

In my personal experience, as with anyone who carries a firearm or implements violence or trains to, there is always a confidence curve.

There are four stages of competence:

http://dressagetoday.com/content/content/26425/dtmp-150100-incomp-02.jpg

Confidence becomes evident when you can try to do something and are able to do it. For example shooting 10 rounds at 25 yards (shooting a 100 drill). Most people/shooters have not ever shot out to that distance and doing so will really make them not confident in their ability. But when you train, practice, and finally are able to do so well enough to meet the Conscious Competence level, then you start to gain confidence in your ability. Eventually the confidence level subsides and you gain mastery over that particular skill set. Confidence is eventually replaced by applicable advanced knowledge of a skill set. Think back when you were in high school and the Pythagorean theorem kicked your ass. By the end of the class you did it without even thinking about it. Shooting, tactics and the art of violence is no different.

[rob_s]

I'm just planning on being a warlord when the shit goes down.

I'm with you there. The good news is that the bottom feeders will just eat each other, leaving precious few needing attention after the fact. If you survive the first week, you're a king.

That's why I'm voting Sanders. Push the bus off the cliff and see who survives. I can guarantee you one thing, none of them will have barfcom logins.

[rob_s]

Let me correct you on a couple of things... I didn't start out asking 'which plate carrier' in the context that you're trying to put it. I asked (at least I tried to ask) what is a good basic set up for me to carry extra mags so that my fun shooting can be more fun. So that after I empty a magazine I don't have to walk back to the truck to get another one.
Oh, sorry. Got it. Here's (http://www.uline.com/Cls_04/Boxes-Corrugated?pricode=WE381&AdKeyword=carboard%20box&AdMatchtype=e&gclid=CjwKEAiAo7C2BRDgqODGq5r38DsSJAAv7dTPkxN97esH 86OsUes-hmN3z5CWOOMVqD1bIU0tPloPIBoC8Gzw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds)all you need. pick the size that works best for you.


I got confused when you started talking about getting in gunfights in traffic.

[UWone77]

I got confused when you started talking about getting in gunfights in traffic.

LOL.

alamo, honestly, my first rifle class, I stuffed magazines in my cargo pockets. It worked fine for what it is. I have a couple of plate carriers in the patrol car, but I never have time to deploy them. Over the years, I've just learned to stuff some extra mags in the car door that I can grab a few before I deploy. At the range if you're just looking for something to hold extra mags, I just attach a couple of fastmags to my belt.

[voodoo_man]

LOL.

alamo, honestly, my first rifle class, I stuffed magazines in my cargo pockets. It worked fine for what it is. I have a couple of plate carriers in the patrol car, but I never have time to deploy them. Over the years, I've just learned to stuff some extra mags in the car door that I can grab a few before I deploy. At the range if you're just looking for something to hold extra mags, I just attach a couple of fastmags to my belt.

Fastmags are good to go. Little finicky on the initial belt attachment though.

I personally like kydex ambi mag carriers with standard belt clips. Fast on fast off secure

[alamo5000]

Another angle to all this is this:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1579/24919202800_97cab1ca79_o.jpg

All those pigs were shot by two guys with one pistol each. They were thick and we managed to get right up on em and get em cornered.

I haven't been out for a while because the guy that owned that ranch sold it...but I can easily see this rig as being used for that too. If I am out riding on a 4 wheeler or in the bed of a truck or just hiking through the woods... I want to have extra ammo in some place besides my back pocket. If I can come up with a comfortable light weight rig that would be awesome.

There is more than one angle here but hopefully ya'll get the idea.

[alamo5000]

I got confused when you started talking about getting in gunfights in traffic.

Just because you chose to focus on that... oh well... carry on... water under the bridge.

[voodoo_man]

Another angle to all this is this:

All those pigs were shot by two guys with one pistol each. They were thick and we managed to get right up on em and get em cornered.

I haven't been out for a while because the guy that owned that ranch sold it...but I can easily see this rig as being used for that too. If I am out riding on a 4 wheeler or in the bed of a truck or just hiking through the woods... I want to have extra ammo in some place besides my back pocket. If I can come up with a comfortable light weight rig that would be awesome.

There is more than one angle here but hopefully ya'll get the idea.

That's a totally different type of application than when implemented against people.

For hunting with a magazine fed firearm I'd recommend either having something chest carried, specifically because it keeps weight off your hips and lets you walk around longer.

[rob_s]

IMO the chest rig, regardless of it's waxing and waning out of fashion, is the best solution for the non-LEO civilian. Properly chosen & set up, it keeps the draw stroke clear from the pistol, allows the carry of more magazines than anyone is likely to need, even at the LARPiest of LARPing classes, and is easy to remove when you get sick of it or hot. I've used one multiple times in Pat Rogers classes, and often come to the line entirely without it for drills that don't require multi-mag-dumps.

The one I'd buy today would be this one (http://www.highspeedgear.com/hsgi/ao-chest-rig-40SCR1.html), with three of these (http://www.highspeedgear.com/hsgi/dd-lt-17DD00.html) and one of these (http://www.highspeedgear.com/hsgi/m3t-12M3T0.html).

and the only reason for the last bit is that I don't trust most people at the range.

and I'd add one of these (http://www.skdtac.com/Ready-Tactical-AR15-Mag-Pouch-p/rdt.110.htm)on the belt.

[Army203]

LOL.

alamo, honestly, my first rifle class, I stuffed magazines in my cargo pockets. It worked fine for what it is. I have a couple of plate carriers in the patrol car, but I never have time to deploy them. Over the years, I've just learned to stuff some extra mags in the car door that I can grab a few before I deploy. At the range if you're just looking for something to hold extra mags, I just attach a couple of fastmags to my belt.

Took my first civilian rifle class much in the same way. I was out there in blue jeans, chucks and a tee shirt. Had my reloads in two blade-tech pouches on my belt. I think the most tacti-cool thing I had with me was a set of knee pads. Because honestly, you ever taken a knee on a sharp ass rock? That sucks, and I am too old for that shit.

Having been down range and exchanged bad words with dudes who whisper to goats. I took what I needed from that class and dumped the shit I know doesn't work.

[rob_s]

I think everyone does some filtering in every class, regardless of their current or previous place of employment. I've taken classes with former Delta guys where my takeaways were more about the teaching/learning process than anything specifically having to do with firearms. Why? Because I'm not a Delta guy, don't have a team, don't pick my fights, and have very little in common.

But, for someone starting out, it's amazing how often you find guys that *think* they know a lot, either due to growing up with guns, or having been in the military, or whatever who lack the basic understanding of the fundamentals of marksmanship and gun-handling. Look up Paul Gardner's article in SWAT, or interview on Ballistic Radio, as just one example of a guy who paid a heavy price because he didn't know what he didn't know. I've been in classes with guys that have seen active duty deployments that never even gave consideration to ammo management (pouches, orientations, reload process, etc.).

That said, again, if the class you are signed up for as your very first requires you to purchase any sort of extra load carriage, it's probably the wrong class. if said load carriage interferes with your CCW, it's probably the wrong gear. If you're basing your gear choices on a SHTFantasy gunfight wherein you will be deploying an AR, you probably have the wrong mindset to begin with.

There are, however, courses that are great for the guy that's already been to one or two where having more mags on your person is helpful. There are many guys these days that make it a point of pride to buck the system and carry their mags in all manner of uncomfortable, slow to employ, and just generally unsat methods just so when it's all over they can humblebrag about how great they did whilst carrying magazines in their armpit. No skin off my back, but I prefer for things to go easy, and if I have a course where I need to carry 3+ mags I'm using a chest rig. This after trying various chest rigs, battle belts, duty belts, etc. The best thing about the chest rig is that you can easily ditch it when you don't need it and, provided you've got that belt pouch, not disturb your belt-mounted system one bit.

I hear a lot of anti-chest-rig folks start up the "train as you'd fight" BS wherein they argue that they won't be wearing a chest rig when they get in their gunfight. Ok, me neither. But when you properly understand ammo management, and your role in the world, you don't load from the chest rig you load from the belt pouch, or the back pocket if that's your thing. The chest rig is just there to feed the emergency reload pouch and/or to feed the gun administratively, so it really has zero "training scars" relative to the "fight".

[GriffonSec]

I hear a lot of anti-chest-rig folks start up the "train as you'd fight" BS wherein they argue that they won't be wearing a chest rig when they get in their gunfight. Ok, me neither. But when you properly understand ammo management, and your role in the world, you don't load from the chest rig you load from the belt pouch, or the back pocket if that's your thing. The chest rig is just there to feed the emergency reload pouch and/or to feed the gun administratively, so it really has zero "training scars" relative to the "fight".

This helped me better understand the chest rig, and I have a much clearer picture of it.

Thanks Rob!

[alamo5000]

I think everyone does some filtering in every class, regardless of their current or previous place of employment. I've taken classes with former Delta guys where my takeaways were more about the teaching/learning process than anything specifically having to do with firearms. Why? Because I'm not a Delta guy, don't have a team, don't pick my fights, and have very little in common.

But, for someone starting out, it's amazing how often you find guys that *think* they know a lot, either due to growing up with guns, or having been in the military, or whatever who lack the basic understanding of the fundamentals of marksmanship and gun-handling. Look up Paul Gardner's article in SWAT, or interview on Ballistic Radio, as just one example of a guy who paid a heavy price because he didn't know what he didn't know. I've been in classes with guys that have seen active duty deployments that never even gave consideration to ammo management (pouches, orientations, reload process, etc.).

That said, again, if the class you are signed up for as your very first requires you to purchase any sort of extra load carriage, it's probably the wrong class. if said load carriage interferes with your CCW, it's probably the wrong gear. If you're basing your gear choices on a SHTFantasy gunfight wherein you will be deploying an AR, you probably have the wrong mindset to begin with.

There are, however, courses that are great for the guy that's already been to one or two where having more mags on your person is helpful. There are many guys these days that make it a point of pride to buck the system and carry their mags in all manner of uncomfortable, slow to employ, and just generally unsat methods just so when it's all over they can humblebrag about how great they did whilst carrying magazines in their armpit. No skin off my back, but I prefer for things to go easy, and if I have a course where I need to carry 3+ mags I'm using a chest rig. This after trying various chest rigs, battle belts, duty belts, etc. The best thing about the chest rig is that you can easily ditch it when you don't need it and, provided you've got that belt pouch, not disturb your belt-mounted system one bit.

I hear a lot of anti-chest-rig folks start up the "train as you'd fight" BS wherein they argue that they won't be wearing a chest rig when they get in their gunfight. Ok, me neither. But when you properly understand ammo management, and your role in the world, you don't load from the chest rig you load from the belt pouch, or the back pocket if that's your thing. The chest rig is just there to feed the emergency reload pouch and/or to feed the gun administratively, so it really has zero "training scars" relative to the "fight".

Sorry guys. I have been extremely overwhelmed with work and other stuff the past couple days.

Rob definitely makes a whole lot of valid points... stuff that I have definitely considered before. Before I sign up for a class I want to make sure it's from someone who will teach me properly. I used to ski competitively and there were schools all over the place, but nothing is worse that having to 'unlearn' something.

On one hand I kind of need to sharpen the stick a little bit and figure out more of what I would want out of a class.

As I said odds are if I ever get into any kind of altercation where I am forced to fight anyone there is about a 98% chance that will be someone trying to mug me on the street in Houston, not getting all kitted up with a frickin' helmet and kevlar vest.

That said be at least familiar with 'combat' or fighting or whatever kind of AR skills would be both fun and useful to some degree if even for general knowledge. Included in that 'combat' or whatever is exactly one thing that Rob pointed out... ammo management which is really the thing I was kind of asking about.

As for sheer practical use for me it will be my 'for fun' shooting, practicing to maybe enter a 2 or 3 gun competition, and of course hog hunting situations. Again I am not looking to spend a fortune to accomplish those goals.

Anyway I have to head out to work. Back on later.

One question though, why in your opinion are chest rigs 'controversial'...or what is the criticism of them? Why do some people hate em?

[alamo5000]

To follow up on that on your chest you can carry a lot more crap but then again you probably won't need it all and it does look like it will be slower. Trading speed for comfort maybe?

For the belt it seems like it might have more overall practical use for a day to day shooter.

I do see where the LEOs here say that just a couple of mags are OK for day to day stuff. If you don't get it done with one or two mags then that situation is either very nuts or you can't shoot straight. Extra mags won't help the latter...

Close? Am I warm?

[alamo5000]

I guess if you're going to parachute in behind enemy lines and be there for a week taking over a village that's one thing. If you roll up on a crazy person with a machete that's another. And if you're on a SWAT team going in to capture a bad guy that's something else.

[Army203]

I think everyone does some filtering in every class, regardless of their current or previous place of employment. I've taken classes with former Delta guys where my takeaways were more about the teaching/learning process than anything specifically having to do with firearms. Why? Because I'm not a Delta guy, don't have a team, don't pick my fights, and have very little in common.

But, for someone starting out, it's amazing how often you find guys that *think* they know a lot, either due to growing up with guns, or having been in the military, or whatever who lack the basic understanding of the fundamentals of marksmanship and gun-handling. Look up Paul Gardner's article in SWAT, or interview on Ballistic Radio, as just one example of a guy who paid a heavy price because he didn't know what he didn't know. I've been in classes with guys that have seen active duty deployments that never even gave consideration to ammo management (pouches, orientations, reload process, etc.).

That said, again, if the class you are signed up for as your very first requires you to purchase any sort of extra load carriage, it's probably the wrong class. if said load carriage interferes with your CCW, it's probably the wrong gear. If you're basing your gear choices on a SHTFantasy gunfight wherein you will be deploying an AR, you probably have the wrong mindset to begin with.

There are, however, courses that are great for the guy that's already been to one or two where having more mags on your person is helpful. There are many guys these days that make it a point of pride to buck the system and carry their mags in all manner of uncomfortable, slow to employ, and just generally unsat methods just so when it's all over they can humblebrag about how great they did whilst carrying magazines in their armpit. No skin off my back, but I prefer for things to go easy, and if I have a course where I need to carry 3+ mags I'm using a chest rig. This after trying various chest rigs, battle belts, duty belts, etc. The best thing about the chest rig is that you can easily ditch it when you don't need it and, provided you've got that belt pouch, not disturb your belt-mounted system one bit.

I hear a lot of anti-chest-rig folks start up the "train as you'd fight" BS wherein they argue that they won't be wearing a chest rig when they get in their gunfight. Ok, me neither. But when you properly understand ammo management, and your role in the world, you don't load from the chest rig you load from the belt pouch, or the back pocket if that's your thing. The chest rig is just there to feed the emergency reload pouch and/or to feed the gun administratively, so it really has zero "training scars" relative to the "fight".

I have read his article. The rifle training I received at the unit level was great and extensive too the point of burn out. However, it wasn't until my 2nd fire fight did I figure out what works and what didn't. It didn't take long for me to change my gear load out. Being right handed, I kept my ready reloads on my left, and cross fed to refill my ready loads from the right if I had time. It was also at this time I learned with GI mags to keep 27 rounds in them and not 30. Something I still do to this day with my first two and last two rounds being tracers. I feel my time in the infantry and combat taught me how to fight and work rifles very well.

That being said, when it came to hand gun shooting I knew jack shit after leaving the Army. I had to learn that by taking a few more classes, and training with people who carried a hand gun for work every day. I learned how to shoot a handgun well from a retired one eyed police detective, and built up my skills from there. Now I just need to find a one eyed Mexican to practice my Spanish with for work.

My only issue with a chest rig is shooting in the prone.

To the OP. I think you have been given some good advice and I know the whole mind set and class thing isn't the answer you were asking for. However, I think in the end you will find the answers to your question about your gear needs by taking a class. Everyone needs a basic foundation to work from and you can build your mindset and gear from there.

[Army203]

To follow up on that on your chest you can carry a lot more crap but then again you probably won't need it all and it does look like it will be slower. Trading speed for comfort maybe?

For the belt it seems like it might have more overall practical use for a day to day shooter.

I do see where the LEOs here say that just a couple of mags are OK for day to day stuff. If you don't get it done with one or two mags then that situation is either very nuts or you can't shoot straight. Extra mags won't help the latter...

Close? Am I warm?

Be realistic with you spot in life. Are you in a job now where you have to go into harms way daily? Because if not and you find yourself alone in a situation doing multiple mag dumps, God hates you.

That doesn't mean to not be prepared and have the training.

[alamo5000]

If by danger you mean you mean going out to try and score with hot sorority girls then yeah, I do that all the time. :)

The answer to going into dangerous situations is no.

Realistically a pistol class would benefit me more than anything. I carry all the time so from a practical standpoint that would probably come first. That said a rifle/carbine class would also be a good thing.

I'm with all of y'all on that point.

I will also say that honestly I have learned quite a bit just from this thread... At least to get me thinking about things.

[rob_s]

I think the keys are to (1) know your role (2) prepare adequately and realistically for it and (3) know when your role changes and what to do about it.

For virtually everyone in the US, the handgun is the primary. The preponderance of training, practice, instruction, gear selection, thinking, etc. should all be related to the handgun. However, if you believe that a rifle/carbine may be part of your role, then you also need to devote time and thought and training and money to that as well.

And there is NOTHING wrong with having fun with a gun. Shooting is fun. Buying shit is fun. Talking about guns is fun. The hard truth is that most of us, "pros" or not, wouldn't be on this site if it wasn't fun.

So whether you're at the training class for fun, or for a perceived need, or a real need, the end result is the same. And your role, when you're at a class, is that of the student.

I wouldn't say the chest rig is "controversial", only that it goes in and out of fashion and every johnny-come-lately thinks he's breaking new ground while those of us that have been around a bit have pretty much already seen it all come and go and come back again. I couldn't tell you if the chest rig is back in fashion now or not, only that I've always liked them, but I've always treated them as an easy way to carry mags and other gear to the line, not as some piece of fighting equipment I'm going to pick up and put on before I go "clear" my house. Whether or not they are an issue in the prone is pretty personal as it has to do with body size/shape, how you wear it, what you put on it, the position you choose to shoot prone, etc. Again, I think the primary criticism for most people has more to do with their lack of understanding of how to properly use them and their own vanity issues with not wanting to look like they are trying to hard. The truth is the guy that selectively picks all his training gear so as to not look "tactical" is just as wrong as the guy that buys everything in multicam for his accounting job.

[voodoo_man]

I think the keys are to (1) stay in your swim lane, kid.

Ftfy

[rob_s]

Ftfy

that's a really tired expression, since it never really meant anything when people started using it. It's mostly a term used when people (a) don't know their own lane or (b) don't have a real response or (c) get uncomfortable with whatever was posted to begin with. it also implies that crossing out of the lane somehow hurts someone else, and the only person LARPing (typically) hurts is the LARPer.

[Default.mp3]

If all you're doing is carrying mags around for ease of access outside a fighting situation, consider a subload. Not particularly useful outside of carrying mags while walking, but if that's all you're doing...

It's a lot easier to throw on a chest rig on a EDC set-up, since you'll probably not have to remove your EDC holster (AIWB might have some issues), while on a war belt you'd have to have a holster on the belt itself, while removing the holster you're already wearing, along with anything else you might have on your belt (EDC magazine, phone holster, etc.). The chest rig is more practical for day-to-day use, while the war belt might have an edge in a class environment where you're planning on staying kitted up for long periods of time outside of your EDC set-up.

If your main concern is realistic self-defense, forget all this stuff, and go take a ShivWorks ECQC course. That's a very different rabbit hole, and arguably a far more functional one for the average citizen CONUS, LE or not.

[Eric]

Re: Playing the "what if game" or "war gaming" as we call it is a good first step to being mentally prepared for s fight.

I disagree. Strongly.

Playing the what-if game is what led to a guy with zero training starting a thread asking what plate carrier he should buy.

I disagree, with your disagree. "What if" or "if, then" thinking is something that it taught at basic training levels to get people thinking and develop a plan. That plan can and should evolve as experience is gained. The body is slow to go where the mind has not already been. Of course mental rehearsal can be escalated to the point of stupidity (mutant alien zombie apocalypse scenario) and perhaps that's what you are referring to.

[gatordev]

I think another thing people who are trying to figure out gear lose sight of is that just because they see a "Pro" using something doesn't mean it's a) a good thing, or b) it's something that "Pro" actually prefers. Sometimes stuff gets issued that's crap, but it serves the overall purpose which is much more than then employing a weapon (I'm looking at you, drop leg holster...you horrible, horrible thing).

It's also important to keep in mind that just because Group A uses something in a certain role doesn't mean that Group B should use the same thing in a related, but different role. For work, I carry a huge, heavy radio and a SCUBA bottle on my vest. I've never had to use them (fortunately), but I wouldn't want to be without them. However when I do the same basic function on my own time for recreation, I don't have any of that, and that's fine because it's not the same "mission" with the same risks.

The same argument can be applied to the carrier/belt argument. Like rob_s, if I wear a carrier, it's a simple one to just carry mags (probably in a class). Otherwise (or in concert with), I'm wearing a Grunt Gear belt (which I love). It serves my recreational purpose. If I actually had to carry killing machines for some sort of work, the belt would be horrible, because it's not really compatible with being in a vehicle.

Basically I'm just repeating what others have said...figure out the end use and then get gear based on that.

[Joelski]

No one person's advice is right or wrong; its just what works for that individual. You can't attach value to any advice if you haven't paid some dues. Namely, trying some of the gear you want to use for yourself. You have a preference for holsters by now; is it because somebody told you to use it, or did you have to go through some trial and error? Nothing, not the most safe advice from the most prime operators will work for you if you don't have fundamentals and rudimentary knowledge. Everybody who has responded to this thread has a trail of cast-off gear. Why? Because they had to find out for themselves what works and what doesn't.

One thing is consistent: Training. Get some. Practice is great, but its not the same. are you out to have fun, or get real about some skills? One way or the other. Shooting is fun. You don't need training to shoot. Training is to control your head and your actions. Nobody springs from the womb with the kind of self-control that weapons training teaches.

[alamo5000]

Here is my take so far on all this stuff up to this point. Personally I don't follow 'pros' nearly as much as many other people do. I am pretty suspicious of a lot of the self proclaimed professionals in fact. I don't even know who most of the 'gun pros' are to be honest. I couldn't name 2 or 3 of them if I tried.

Personally I try to look for the good in people and give them the benefit of the doubt. If those pros pass my no assholes rule and have something meaningful and useful to say then they have my full attention. I might or might not fully adopt everything said because honestly some of that stuff might not apply to me. I certainly will not go out and buy a $2500 wigit just because Kanye bought one too. Fuck him.

That said most of the people who really know stuff don't have to talk shit to get their point across. They can give educated effective communication of their points and leave it at that. Case and point... the other day I was on facebook and ran across some thread on a friend's wall or something and next thing you know I was conversing with a person I didn't even know. He was a pretty pleasant person and turned out to be quite knowledgeable. I was impressed not only by what he knew but how he carried himself. Those kind of instructors are exactly what I am after.

That said I dislike being talked down to or whatever. Yeah I might not be a SEAL but if you are that's still no excuse to be an asshole. Basically we need more mentors and less James Yeagers. I met that guy once and didn't have a clue who he was (this was pre youtube meltdown).

That said youtube and other places are a platform for some pretty neat stuff to get out there in the public but everything should be up for scrutiny.

As for my intents and uses I think I could make use of one of those speed mag pouches, build a simple war belt, and maybe even have a simple chest rig. I think I could make use of all three at various times. As many have pointed out for my different uses certain things might work better.

Part of my purpose isn't always to tell me exactly how to spend my money, but rather how to think it through and figure out what kind of stuff I might actually need or use.

What I wind up with in the end, hell I still don't know. I might go find a place and try on a basic war belt and try on a basic chest rig to see how it fits and it will also let me visualize how I might use it.

As others have stated there is not a 100% right answer. I am not in any big hurry to get something. I would rather take my time, think it through and buy right (or close to right) the first time and tweak from there.

And of course a class or three are definitely on the table because at the end of the day for me shooting is fun....but at this point for me it's not just about having stuff ie a bad ass expensive gun and making noise... I want to be beyond that and build up more skills. It really doesn't matter what it is.. once I get interested in something I am a voracious learner. Pistol classes rifle classes... you name it I will try to soak it all up. The only real thing limiting me is paying for it all.

I just have to find people that can live with my way of learning which is to sometimes ask a lot of questions. I try not to ask stupid questions but nobody is perfect.

[BoilerUp]

Interesting discussion. I appreciate those that have taken the time to meaningfully contribute. Alamo is obvious pretty good and being quick to admit that he doesn't know what he doesn't know, so thanks for putting yourself out there.

Weapons aren't part of my day job, and I'm one of those guys that probably came out of a my Army contract knowing less about firearms than I did when entered the service. I was a REMF. And an officer. So my preferred weapon was PowerPoint.

Point being, I don't know much either. But back over the holidays I took advantage of the SKD Christmas sale and picked up enough HSGI stuff to put together a nice little battle belt with two pistol mag pouches and one carbine mag pouch:

HSG.511-0007 HSGI COBRA Riggers Belt - Black - X-Large
HSG.712-0004 HSGI Micro Grip Belt Panel - X-Large
HSG.714-0009 HSGI Double Pistol TACO Pouch - Wolf Grey - Belt Mount
HSG.705-0005 HSGI Belt Mounted TACO - Wolf Gray

I already had a Safariland holster (for a G19) and plan to add one more pouch to the belt for my Surefire and one for a trauma kit.

I struggled with the decision to purchase the items above for quite some time and had been going back and forth on a battle belt vs chest rig or even just a bug-out bag, but I think I made the right decision for me and my intended usage, which is: Primary: something goes bump in the night, I wanted something I could easily wear regardless of how I'm dressed; Secondary: a reasonable rig for having fun at the range or taking a pistol or carbine course.

I don't really envision a scenario where I'd wear this out in the world, but I did want something that wouldn't draw unwanted attention if I needed to wear it in public. I subscribe the "gray" philosophy, meaning I don't wear multi-cam or anything with molle out in public and don't have stickers on my vehicle. The belt with gray pouches is fairly low profile (physically and visually) and is easily concealed by a light jacket.

For the home, I also subscribe to the philosophy that the best use of a handgun is to help you safely get to your carbine. My expectation would be that once I reach the safe, I'd holster the pistol and switch to carbine. One extra mag should be plenty. As someone else said, if I can't take care of business in 60 rounds through a carbine then life really sucks, but I'll have 45 rounds for my secondary. I've got a small shoulder bag that holds 6 carbine mags if I ever have one of those days (nights?). As has been stated, it would just help me feed my ready mag.

Honestly, I haven't even run the setup yet. The fun bays at the range have't been available on the days I've been. I do also need to order the inner velcro belt to wear with pants when at the range, but the default setup is with the microgrip panel that provides padding and purchase w/o using the belt loops of the pants.

Other considerations: I hate velcro (it's loud). The tacos will accept mags from about any platform, so can be used for AR, AK, or G3/FAL/AR10. You can add suspenders/shoulder harness to the belt if it gets too heavy. The drop leg panels for mags actually looks like a workable solution for some situations.

Anyway, I'm not proscribing an answer, just talking through the thought process I went through to select my gear. As others have said, though, I may dump the whole thing in a few years after I learn more about what works best for me. Or I might find that I got lucky and my informed decision was spot-on.

Cheers.

[SINNER]

I'm with you there. The good news is that the bottom feeders will just eat each other, leaving precious few needing attention after the fact. If you survive the first week, you're a king.

That's why I'm voting Sanders. Push the bus off the cliff and see who survives. I can guarantee you one thing, none of them will have barfcom logins.

After what I witnessed with the Baltimore riots I'd say a week to 10 days 90% of the cities would be destroyed in a true collapse of government. The survivors coming out would be some hardened bastards.

[alamo5000]

Interesting discussion. I appreciate those that have taken the time to meaningfully contribute. Alamo is obvious pretty good and being quick to admit that he doesn't know what he doesn't know, so thanks for putting yourself out there.

Weapons aren't part of my day job, and I'm one of those guys that probably came out of a my Army contract knowing less about firearms than I did when entered the service. I was a REMF. And an officer. So my preferred weapon was PowerPoint.

Thank you. I see no need to try and bullshit people. It is what it is. There is a whole lot of extremely good information here. I am a habitual question asker so I will also give a big thank you to those who take time to offer meaningful suggestions and meaningful explanations. I really like it when people take the time to share red meat answers.

[alamo5000]

After what I witnessed with the Baltimore riots I'd say a week to 10 days 90% of the cities would be destroyed in a true collapse of government. The survivors coming out would be some hardened bastards.

While it wasn't a riot when they had that mandatory evacuation for Houston (I was living down there at the time) it took me 18 hours of being stuck on the road in the streets to get about 60 miles by car. It was absolute chaos on the streets. All the radio stations were all broadcasting the same emergency messages over and over. No music. Just emergency broadcasts. It was pretty freaky.

Fortunately people were all being good to each other. Passing out water bottles to each other... one guy was bbq'ing on his tail gate and would walk around to cars offering hot dogs and hamburgers. When traffic would move he would pull up 10 feet then resume cooking. LOL!

Now imagine if people weren't being polite to each other. I could see things easily getting out of hand.

Houston is about one of the most armed places in America. It would be absolutely insane for anyone to even consider trying to invade that place. Oh hell naw. That shit just wouldn't fly.

[Joelski]

Here's what I like and if anybody agrees, I'll be surprised. A messenger bag. That's it. Got room for plenty of mags, some hemcon,, even a backup sidearm. It serves as the dump pouch as well. It stays with me, and can be in front of me, or behind me. Plus, with the flap closed, it's gray. Of course, the rifle ' z dead giveaway, but that's why I'll take a gig bag over a hard case any day.

[alamo5000]

Weapons aren't part of my day job, and I'm one of those guys that probably came out of a my Army contract knowing less about firearms than I did when entered the service. I was a REMF. And an officer. So my preferred weapon was PowerPoint.

One of my really good friends graduated from West Point. He can't shoot to save his frickin' life. But if you need an astigmatism diagnosis or a new set of glasses he's your guy.

I think there is sometimes a misconception about the military in that some people think everyone is a knuckle dragger, a Navy Seal, or a fighter pilot named Iceman or Goose.

They seem to forget about all the accountants and mechanics when they make movies LOL!

[Former11B]

One of my really good friends graduated from West Point. He can't shoot to save his frickin' life. But if you need an astigmatism diagnosis or a new set of glasses he's your guy.

I think there is sometimes a misconception about the military in that some people think everyone is a knuckle dragger, a Navy Seal, or a fighter pilot named Iceman or Goose.

They seem to forget about all the accountants and mechanics when they make movies LOL!

I've never seen a video game designed for water purification or bulk fuel. [:D] Doubt it'd do well. Can't remember who did it, but a parody of "real" modern warfare came out, and you sat around for hours pulling security/standing post, waiting for letters from home, burning poo, etc. It was hilarious