Kramer Defense Patent Trolls

[GaSwamper]

It's been brought to my attention this week that apparently Kramer Defense thinks if you try to chamber an AR15 for anything requiring a bolt larger than 6.8 you owe them for the right to do it. That my friends is ridiculous! Apparently after buying, yes buying someone else's enhanced bolt years ago, they saw the potential and decided to sneak in some blanket patent to block anyone from producing them without paying royalties. So now Kramer Defense is sueing other manufacturers for making larger than milspec patterned bolts and demanding damages to be paid for bolts they did not design, do not produce, and have no plans to design or produce, they would rather sit back and let the real innovators of the industry feed their greed the easy way. With the threats to the second amendment and constant attacks to the firearms industry in today's world we should all be working together, not trying to cut another's throat because you can't come up with an original idea on your own. I am posting this only to expose what I find as shameful and uncalled for behavior by what should be another great American company but has turned to greed instead.

[Stone]

Do you have a link other than facebook. Cant see it...

[GaSwamper]

Do you have a link other than facebook. Cant see it...

That link is in my Sig line, I'll post the patent info but this isn't something that has been publicized, but that's probly about to change, there's quite a few gun enthusiast getting wind of this now. All of my info comes direct from one of the manufactures that is being filled suit against.

[GaSwamper]

https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/full%20patent.pdf?token=AWxWjbqmjvQtah5a3SVhwMFmA-CSU8G08RaI0Jsma43T00kcNR99iTCe85b1YBDgMwo405AatReC 9vtdYgc6wDTWwgkMPzMVxrzS3PKXdixQnw

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[GaSwamper]

Previous post is the full patent info. Basically if you want to make a bolt for the AR15 bigger than .450 case head Kramer says they should get paid. The patent should never have been issued so open in the first place. Yes if you design something you should be able to patent it, not the whole idea of it.

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[UWone77]

Do you have a copy of the lawsuit? Curious what the verbiage is.

[GaSwamper]

Do you have a copy of the lawsuit? Curious what the verbiage is.

Sorry UW I don't. I may could get it but with it being an active lawsuit, and not against me, I haven't asked.
This does directly affect alot of the wildcats me and alot of other shooters have been enjoying. I just feel if you're not going to try to improve a platform don't try to roadblock it for everyone else. I will however post up any info I can on the situation.

[Stone]

Find out where the suit is filed and the records can be obtained. Situations like this need to be scrutinized with facts and logic, not emotions. Not pointing fingers but people in general tend to jump to conclusions based on emotions long before the facts are weighed. Anybody can sue anybody for almost any reason doesn't mean anything until a verdict is reached. Lets see if we can get the complaint.

[GaSwamper]

Find out where the suit is filed and the records can be obtained. Situations like this need to be scrutinized with facts and logic, not emotions. Not pointing fingers but people in general tend to jump to conclusions based on emotions long before the facts are weighed. Anybody can sue anybody for almost any reason doesn't mean anything until a verdict is reached. Lets see if we can get the complaint.

Right you are stone, I've requested the info.

[GaSwamper]

Well after a message to the Manu asking for some links to any of the legal info he declined. He said he'd rather not while the whole business was happening and rather it to just be over with in short.

[UWone77]

Well after a message to the Manu asking for some links to any of the legal info he declined. He said he'd rather not while the whole business was happening and rather it to just be over with in short.

Not to sound like a dick, but.... [BD]

[GaSwamper]

Ha, pretty much.

[GaSwamper]

http://patents.justia.com/inventor/lawrence-s-kramer
Apparently Mr. Kramer invented modifying the AR15

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[Joelski]

I patented entropy, and it's result, so I am entitled to get royalties from the beginning of recorded time onward.

[GaSwamper]

I patented entropy, and it's result, so I am entitled to get royalties from the beginning of recorded time onward.

Yes, yes it's that stupid.

[SINNER]

As someone familiar with welding I can say those "patents" for weld filling wire are hilarious. I would LOVE to see him file an infringement case against Miller or ESAB.

[GaSwamper]

As someone familiar with welding I can say those "patents" for weld filling wire are hilarious. I would LOVE to see him file an infringement case against Miller or ESAB.

It's ridiculous, notice he seems to have invented a way to use a gas piston in the ar15!? I can't believe no one has ever thought of that.

[UWone77]

It's all about if you can defend the patent in court. I bet they don't have the cash for prolonged litigation. Anyone can spend $250 on a cease and desist.

[GaSwamper]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/02/26/kramer-defense-files-patent-bolt-heads-cartridges-larger-6-8mm-spc-wildcat-world-reacts/

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[FortTom]

My cousin is a lawyer. I called him to see if I could patent beer. He hung up on me. See if that dick gets a Christmas card from me this year. Never mind. Seems since he's my cousin, I have to.

FT.

[GriffonSec]

My cousin is a lawyer. I called him to see if I could patent beer. He hung up on me. See if that dick gets a Christmas card from me this year. Never mind. Seems since he's my cousin, I have to.

FT.

But he is a lawyer, you'll be excused. [:D]