Finding the right bullet

[tappedandtagged]

***See Post 18 for range testing of various factory loadings (with photos)***

I recently acquired a 14.5" SPR profile barrel from Ballistic Advantage and slapped her on my upper last weekend. The first few test rounds were a bit disappointing. For starters, my 55 grain Xtreme bullets FMJ hand loads were a 4" group at 100 yards. My 65 grain Sierra GK loads were about 2" at 100. Figuring these loads had been worked up for and optimized to my old barrel, I took the results with a grain of salt.

This past Monday I got to the range with a few factory Match loadings. The first I tried was Hornady Custom Match with their 75 grain BTHP. This resulted in a 3" group. I had another guy at the range try my rifle and he shot a 3-1/2" spread. He had been shooting sub 1/2 MOA with his 22-250 bolt gun before shooting mine, so I know it wasn't me. I tested this with my Specwar 556 on and off.

Right before I left, I shot 4 rounds of Federal GMM with the Sierra 69 grain MK. This shot right at 1.01" at 100 yards. I believe the 16 MPH gusts had a bit to do with this since the group was strung horizontally with only 1/4" vertical difference. Since I could only find one box of this ammo, I didn't reshoot without my suppressor. Also, I'm wanting to wait till the wind dies down.

Since those were the only 2 match offerings I could find locally, I went ahead and placed an online order with Midway. Next week I'll have the following to play with:

69 and 77 grain Federal Gold Medal Match (both Sierra bullets)
68 and 75 grain Hornady Custom Match
69 and 77 grain Nosler Match

Hopefully I'll be able to tell if my barrel likes the 68/69 grain pills or the 75/77 grain pills. Once I narrow that down, I'll probably buy a 100 round box of the bullet that seems the most consistently available and start load development.

Also, for those wanting specs on the rifle, they are as follows:
Windham Weaponry AR (the receiver and BCG anyway)
Vltor Emod stock
BCM Mod3 pistol grip
Geissele GS2 trigger
Geissele 13" MK 4 rail
SilencerCo Specwar 556
Burris 4-16X44 Signature Series scope
American Defense Recon-X mount
Samson Mfg BUIS
Ballistic Advantage 14.5" SPR barrel (from a contact overrun) with pinned ASR Trifecta mount
Edit to add per below question: 1/7 twist, 5.56 chamber, nitride finish

[Former11B]

What chamber and barrel twist rate? This makes a big difference on advice I can offer

What is your 55gr FMJ load, and same for the 65gr GKs?

[tappedandtagged]

The twist is 1:7, 5.56 chamber.

The 65 GK was 25.4 grains of H335 over a CCI 400 in a Remington case and shot just under 1 inch in my old 1:9 twist barrel. Velocity was 2675 in the old 16" barrel.

The 55 FMJ was 25 grains of H335 over a CCI 400 in mixed cases and shot around 2.5 MOA in my old barrel. I don't recall the velocity, but I believe it was in the high 2800's range, possibly low 2900's.

I know I'll be able to get the barrel to shoot (hopefully sub 1/2 MOA), but I am disappointed it didn't seem to like the 75 grain Hornady. As for the FMJ's, I actually only have a few hundred more of those, so I'll just shoot them through my work rifle and work up a new load with the new barrel later. The large groups with the 55 grainers really didn't bother me much at all.

Hopefully it'll like the 77 SMK or Nosler. I'm a fan of heavy for caliber bullets in general.

[alamo5000]

I have gone through the selection process a couple of times. My method was to basically try as many different types of ammo I could find. Mainly it was split up between grain weights. I found the best 55gr I could find, I found the best 62gr I could find, I found a box of 64gr, and 68gr, 69gr, and so on and so forth. I didn't need a lot of ammo. Just a box of 20 is fine.

Then I got out my led sled and chrono... I would do 3 round groups carefully picking my aim point. I actually used 1/2" neon stickers stuck on a foam insulation board as my target. Each group I would 'map'... which one was first, which one was second, third and so forth. By 10 shots you have a good idea. 10 is plenty. It's important to map em because it can indicate what is going on. If you see how the spread is and what pattern it creates you can see a lot. I can share more on this later, but suffice it to say that these 'shot maps' will help a lot. It doesn't have to be perfect. Just something scribbled on a note pad works with some basic measurements thrown in there. Shot 1 1/2" left... shot 2 1" high, etc etc.

Rinse and repeat for each grain weight. It takes a little while, but it should be meticulous but it's an investment in time that will ultimately pay off. Just be a bit scientific about it. If you have a chronograph it helps a lot. Just log it with each shot what the velocities are.

After you go through all those (use a fresh target for each type of ammo) you will see a lot of good information.

Don't worry about a specific zero, just use a specific aiming point and concern yourself with the impact points. In fact don't rezero or even concern yourself with that. Just aim for your 1/2" sticker and map your groups and their actual impact points. Think of one of Molon's posts when it comes to 'mapping'.

After you get the maps of your shots out you can see based on the patterns what is going on, but a lot of the variation in velocity round to round will be the culprit. This is where a chronograph helps weed out no deals. If you find out of your 10 shots 3 with similar velocities scattered all over the place then that is a bad sign. However if you find 4 shots with similar velocities and good impact points that's a clue to run with it.

Throughout this whole process take your time and you will find something interesting and make discoveries. It's not the most velocity you are after... it's the right velocity you are after. It does take some trial and error but for me I can do my approach and maybe test 3 or maybe more types of ammo like this in an hour. It's not like it's going to be a month of sundays. In 2 hours you can have in narrowed down quite a bit.

[alamo5000]

As far as load development goes once you find the grain weight that seems better than others then you can do development. The key is to have consistent velocity. Your brass will matter the most in this. After that you can work up with it. On one load I started with Varget and would just be careful and bump the charge .1gr on each ten rounds. Then I would re-test using the above mentioned set up. It works quite well since I can shoot in the back yard.

[tappedandtagged]

0.1 grains is a pretty small increment. I usually test with a larger increment looking for POI and velocity consistency between increments as well as group size. Once I identify my "windows" I retest with smaller increments within the window that gave me acceptable accuracy and velocity.

I'll start prepping/sorting brass tomorrow. I'll likely use Remington since that's who my PD is currently using for our .223 ammo (55 UMC ball for training, 62 grain Premier Match for duty).

If I don't get satisfactory results from my load development, I'll start over using different brass. I'm hesitant to even use Remington as I've always had worse results with Rem brass than Federal or Lake a City (love LC, just haven't been seeing any on the range).

I'm certain when it's all said and done, I'll be well under 1 MOA with the match bullets and under 2 MOA with the 55 grain plinkers. I've done it plenty of times before, even taking a $300 bolt .243 from a 2.5" rifle (with premium factory ammo) to consistent 0.8"-1" with my handloads.

[tappedandtagged]

On a side note, has anyone tried the Swift 75 grain bonded Sirocco 2's? Those look like they'd be a great pill for wild pigs, if I can find them in stock. Since they don't seem to be consistently in stock, I'll probably end up using the Barnes 62 grain TSX or TTSX.

[mustangfreek]

Maybe I missed it but what kind of round you looking to develop ,just a overall good shooting load or some heavy grain match type shooting Ammo ?. I'd start with the 55's, get a good/decent load worked up,I load extreme and Hornady 55's and with polished mil spec triggers any of my rifles will usually shoot 1-1.5 Moa if I do my part at a 100 yards. Also how does factory 55gr stuff shoot in it?

MY 55 gr plinking load for h335 is 24.9 grains at 2.20 , CCI 450, lc case
I get damn near same results with Hornady usually a hair better, but these are just my blister loads, same everything but with AA2230 gets me better results, but last 8lber just ran out and have not seen any for a long time

I also experimented with crimping and a light to medium crimp is where I settled as for accuracy and piece of mind, no crimps didn't shoot any better.

Heavy loads I have not played as much with have some 77's but yet to do anything, have a good 69gr smk load that shoots under a Moa when I last ran any, that was with varget though, tried some h335 but not as good 1.5-2 Moa

Also what powders do you have available to play with?

[Former11B]

Mustang brings up a good point, one I was going to touch on. For accuracy loads, you might consider another powder. Varget and Reloder 15 are pretty hard to beat; I currently shoot RE15 with 69s, 75s, and 77gr bullets. My 16" and 18" barrels require slightly different charges to maximize precision, so you just have to work towards them.

For 55gr FMJs, I use 27.0gr of CFE223 or 22.5gr of Reloder10x.

[tappedandtagged]

The only suitable powders I have on hand at the moment are H335 and W748.

As for what I'm trying to accomplish, not really sure. I'd like a really nice accurate load that I may or may not start playing with at longer ranges (350 yards is the longest I can shoot without cutting trees down or building a tower.

Once I figure out which factory load my AR favors, I'll try to duplicate the loading. Not really sure why I want to do this, I just have the itch to piddle and have some fun.

I'll pick up a few pounds of R15 next time I see some available. Anyone try BLC-2? It seems to be a popular choice for heavier bullets.

[Army203]

RAM-TAC is a good powder that I use for my 69 & 77gr SMK stuff.

[mustangfreek]

RAM-TAC is a good powder that I use for my 69 & 77gr SMK stuff.

Yep heard only good, and it favors the heavies from what I hear, have a few pounds to try out.

Tapped , you should be able to get some decent results from the h335, just not match quality Imo ,post up what you find out, also double check all the scope mount screws and what not. Also not needed but chrono info is always nice

[alamo5000]

Anyone try BLC-2? It seems to be a popular choice for heavier bullets.

I have an 8 pound jug of it. It works ok. I haven't tried to do a full on accuracy load with it but it seems alright.


0.1 grains is a pretty small increment. I usually test with a larger increment looking for POI and velocity consistency between increments as well as group size. Once I identify my "windows" I retest with smaller increments within the window that gave me acceptable accuracy and velocity.


Whatever increments you use is fine. Make a system that works for you... but using a sled and writing down the results during testing to me at least makes my test shots count and gives me valuable information with as little variance as possible. I try to remove as much of the 'me' screw up variables as possible.

[tappedandtagged]

Whatever increments you use is fine. Make a system that works for you... but using a sled and writing down the results during testing to me at least makes my test shots count and gives me valuable information with as little variance as possible. I try to remove as much of the 'me' screw up variables as possible.

Agreed on documentation and using a solid rest/sled. I have a binder of ammunition tests including weather, velocity for each charge weight, group size etc. also in the binder are the actual targets themselves with the same data written on them (although I only write the average velocity on the targets).

The binder is getting quite thick as I even keep results from guns I don't own anymore.

[alamo5000]

Agreed on documentation and using a solid rest/sled. I have a binder of ammunition tests including weather, velocity for each charge weight, group size etc. also in the binder are the actual targets themselves with the same data written on them (although I only write the average velocity on the targets).

The binder is getting quite thick as I even keep results from guns I don't own anymore.

You are in my opinion being very smart about it. I don't keep my data but I probably should. I keep it until I find what works and then go on about my business.

Weather though is a very good thing to note. Especially for people up north. Down here it matters but not as much mainly because it's 75 degrees in January sometimes. But if you shoot especially at long distances 80 degrees and 50 degrees can mean the difference between a hit and a miss.

For my AR an 80 degree dope with all the other stuff being exactly the same at an 800 yard target is 37.4 MOA based around an 800 yard target. A 50 degree dope changing nothing else is 39.8 MOA. Difference of 2.5 MOA hold over based solely around a 30 degree temperature variation. That is easily the difference between a hit and miss. Just the temp difference alone would put me 20+ inches off target at that range.

Load development at different temperatures though... I haven't really gotten into that so much. I am sure it can make a big difference.

[tappedandtagged]

I usually try to do my load development in cooler temps for a couple of reasons. One, hunting takes place during the cooler months, and two, less time spent waiting for the barrel to cool.

As for this adventure, I'm not concerned about hunting, as I won't be hunting with a match bullet. I still haven't decided on what bullet to use for hunting. I've been using the Sierra 65 grain GK, but now that my AR has a 1:7 twist, I'm not limited as much as I was before.

The 75 grain Swift bonded looks nice, as does the 70 grain Barnes TSX and Hornady GMX. The Nosler 64 grain bonded has a rounded nose, but for the shorter ranges the 5.56 will be used for on medium game, I don't think the BC will come into play. But, why not add the extra weight since I can.

Overall, I really enjoy the load development process. It is always really nice to see things come together and get that better than match grade hunting or target round at half the cost.

[mustangfreek]

Oh I agree it's fun to work up loads, just another extension of the hobby....I need a chrono of my own only got to use one of the gun ranges chrono twice...someone else shot it.....[BD]

I have wanted to try out those 64 gr Nosler bonded also, check back in with what you work up

[tappedandtagged]

I shot a variety of factory ammo yesterday. The wind was 2-3 MPH, variable, 70 degrees, partly cloudy. In other words, it was a PERFECT day to shoot. Overall I am quite disappointed with the groups. I shot each ammo suppressed and suppressed, just to make sure the can wasn't affecting harmonics (shouldn't in a short/stubby 14.5 SPR profile barrel). Please note, my chronograph tripod took a dump on me, so I have no velocity readings. I was quite disappointed in this, but not enough to take a 30 minute trip into town to buy a cheap new one from Wally World. I tried to stack 5 gal buckets in front of the bench to gather a reading, but I couldn't get any readings. Now on to the photos:

First, the rifle. It started life as Windham Weaponry stock AR. The only stock parts on it now are the receiver set, the BCG, safety, receiver extension and buffer/spring. It has a Geissele G2S trigger and Mk 4 rail. The barrel is a Ballistic's Advantage 14.5" SPR profile nitrided barrel in 5.56mm with a Geissele Super Gas Block and Daniel Defense mid length gas tube. The muzzle device is SilencerCo ASR flash hider which mounts my SWR marked Specwar 556 (made after the acquisition but right before they dropped the SWR name). The scope is a Burris 4-16 Signature Series mounted in an American Defense Recon-X 1" scope mount. I verified the mount was secure and the rings were torqued to 30 inch pounds, per American Defense's instructions, with a Fat Max. The receiver was painted with Brownells Alumahyde II in OD green. The magwell sticker is from US Night Vision and was a leftover freebie from 2014 shot show that I won on their FB page two years ago. It has held on amazing well. The Alumahyde II is holding up great as well.
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz121/zlwhite/DSC_0002_zpsgzrpteyo.jpg (http://s820.photobucket.com/user/zlwhite/media/DSC_0002_zpsgzrpteyo.jpg.html)

My dad and I set this range up. He build the bench and it is beyond sturdy. I normally like to shoot prone, but a recent vasectomy is preventing me from laying on my stomach for obvious reasons. And, the bench was recently built and this is my first time using it. He did a great job. The far stump is exactly 100 yards as verified by a Nikon rangefinder. I shot off homemade sandbags (filled with beanie baggie guts from the hobby shop) unless otherwise noted. The bipod I used for a few of the shots is a cheap Caldwell that I bought years ago back when I didn't know any better.
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz121/zlwhite/DSC_0006_zps7h8iflld.jpg (http://s820.photobucket.com/user/zlwhite/media/DSC_0006_zps7h8iflld.jpg.html)http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz121/zlwhite/DSC_0007_zpsa1et3dpi.jpg (http://s820.photobucket.com/user/zlwhite/media/DSC_0007_zpsa1et3dpi.jpg.html)

I tried to get a variety of ammo. I only had two match offerings, Hornady Custom Match, 75 grain BTHP and Federal Gold Medal Match, 69 grain SMK. The other loadings I brought along were American Eagle 55 and 62 grain FMJ, Winchester 55 grain FMJ and LC M855. (I didn't shoot the Winchester 62 grain stuff pictured as its the same as the Lake City M855 I already had loaded in a mag). I also shot my hand loaded 65 grain GK, loaded with 25.5 grains of H335 in a Remington case with a CCI 400 primer. This load was right at 1" in my Windham 1:9 twist barrel. The rounds were single loaded with the exception of the ball ammo, which I loaded 5 at a time in the pictured 10 round magazine. Between ammo changes I cleaned the bore with Hoppes #9 and an Otis kit. I would run the Hoppes soaked brush through 5 times and then run 3 dry patches through. Not the cleanest, but it was clean enough to get the old powder residue out of the barrel. Only on one shot group did I shoot with a hot barrel. All other times, I let the barrel rest between groups till it was ambient temp. Even when I shot the barrel "hot," I had been shooting suppressed and it wasn't even hot enough to show any mirage over the suppressor, so hot is a relative term here.
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz121/zlwhite/DSC_0004_zpsqcgyhm43.jpg (http://s820.photobucket.com/user/zlwhite/media/DSC_0004_zpsqcgyhm43.jpg.html)

I started with the Hornady 75 grain Custom Match ammo. The results were beyond pitiful as seen below. The suppressed group was shot with the bipod. I quickly realized I didn't like the bipod and took it off for the unsuppressed shot group. Suppressed with bipod resulted in a 2.915" 3 shot string. Unsuppressed off sandbags resulted in a 2.275" 4 shot "group." Unimpressive to say the least.
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz121/zlwhite/DSC_0018_zps9pux183h.jpg (http://s820.photobucket.com/user/zlwhite/media/DSC_0018_zps9pux183h.jpg.html)

I later shot the Hornady again with a warm barrel. I note "hot" on the target, but it should be noted the shots following up to the "hot" shot were all suppressed. No mirage was seen from the suppressor. This was shot off a sandbag and resulted in 3.825" three shot group.
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz121/zlwhite/DSC_0016_zps4jtf6jyo.jpg (http://s820.photobucket.com/user/zlwhite/media/DSC_0016_zps4jtf6jyo.jpg.html)

Second shots were taken with the Federal Gold Medal Match with the 69 grain SMK. I was able to get one BARELY sub MOA 3 shot group unsuprressed at 0.927" although I never could duplicate these results. I also stopped a 3 shots because I was certain a 4th or 5th shot wold open the groups up beyond 1 inch. Suppressed I came in at 1.332" for a 4 shot group.
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz121/zlwhite/DSC_0019_zpsj2e3pwm4.jpg (http://s820.photobucket.com/user/zlwhite/media/DSC_0019_zpsj2e3pwm4.jpg.html)

I later shot the Federal GMM suppressed again and got an odd occurrence. Note that I numbered the shot order on this group. Ignore the group on the left for now. I'll get to that later.
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz121/zlwhite/DSC_0012_zpsdevnsjf3.jpg (http://s820.photobucket.com/user/zlwhite/media/DSC_0012_zpsdevnsjf3.jpg.html)

That's it for the match loadings. Those were the only two I could find locally, even then, I could only get one box of the GMM, and I paid a premium for it too.

Next I shot Federal 62 grain FMJ. See the above photo for the suppressed shot group. There is one shot off paper far left (about an inch off). I'm not even trying to measure this group. It is pitiful, even for American Eagle bulk ammo. I then shot another group suppressed with the 62 grain FMJ. This 7 shot group measured 2.4" exactly. Interesting to see that I had two different sub groups where there's just an elongated hole where two rounds passed through, but these sub groups are 1.766" apart. Pitiful. When I shot unsuppressed, the five shot group was immeasurable once I took the target off the plyboard since two of the shots were off paper to the right, but just barely. The three on paper measured 2.951" which is still pretty awful.
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz121/zlwhite/DSC_0015_zpstvnwobmg.jpg (http://s820.photobucket.com/user/zlwhite/media/DSC_0015_zpstvnwobmg.jpg.html)

I then tried out the 55 grain American Eagle FMJ loading. All shots landed on paper. Suppressed measured in at 2.656" and unsuppressed at 2.613".
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz121/zlwhite/104f061a-c6f3-4a10-b564-61b9a603de73_zpsiuuefaxk.jpg (http://s820.photobucket.com/user/zlwhite/media/104f061a-c6f3-4a10-b564-61b9a603de73_zpsiuuefaxk.jpg.html)

I then tried out some Lake City surplus M855 ball ammo. I shot this suppressed with the bipod again. 10 shot group measured in at 3.875". Even if I throw out the two lowest shots as "flyers" (they weren't) I still get a group of 2.124".
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz121/zlwhite/DSC_0014_zps0ob3acla.jpg (http://s820.photobucket.com/user/zlwhite/media/DSC_0014_zps0ob3acla.jpg.html)

For those that have read the whole post, this is where I shot the "hot" barrel group of the Hornady 75 grain match again.

Lastly, I shot some of my own handloads. The load data is in the first of this post, so I won't rehash it. This loading shot right at 1" with my 1:9 twist Windham barrel (that I'm starting to wish I had of kept). The five shot group came in at 2.308".
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz121/zlwhite/DSC_0013_zpswbc0brtb.jpg (http://s820.photobucket.com/user/zlwhite/media/DSC_0013_zpswbc0brtb.jpg.html)

Overall, I've spent over $100 on ammo to test this barrel. I have another $100 order coming in for 4 different types of match ammo from Midway (77 Fed GMM, 68 grain Hornady, 69 Nosler and 77 Nosler). I'm not sure if I want to contact Ballistic Advantage and see what they'll do for me, or keep shooting my money up and see if I can get this barrel to shoot. To put it bluntly, I'm not sure I want a barrel that won't shoot decent bulk under a 2" group consistently.

[tappedandtagged]

Oh, and before anyone says "its the shooter," I AM capable of shooting very well. Here's an old photo of a load I worked up with the Sierra 65 GK's in an old 1:9 twist barrel. I didn't use this load to hunt with because the velocity was rather slow and I chose the ~1" loading at a higher velocity to hunt with (the 25.5 grain load). The group measured at 0.763" for 5 shots, again, single loaded on bags. http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz121/zlwhite/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_094536789_zps5v10qxqz.jpg (http://s820.photobucket.com/user/zlwhite/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_094536789_zps5v10qxqz.jpg.html)

[BoilerUp]

It sounds like you know what you are doing and have more confidence in your shooting than I have in mine, so I'm not going to give you any shooting or build suggestions.

I say give Ballistic Advantage a call on Monday and just describe the performance you are seeing and hear what they have to say. They might have some ideas on which ammo performs best out of that barrel. They have a sub-MOA guarantee w/ match ammo so find out which ammo they trust for proof of performance.

[alamo5000]

Looks to me like 69s are definitely a potential winner. Just for kicks see if you can find a 1lb can of varget and get your velocity and charge right and you will be on it I think. I would develop the load unsupressed and then after you get consistent results put the can back on and take notes of poi shift.

[mustangfreek]

Humm

I'd say try some varget , reloader 15, or tac with some smk 69 & 77 gr smk/tmk

When I was working up loads on a old ra 18" went from 748 to h335 to aa2230 then varget and with 69gr smk'S holy crap..me, mil spec trigger and off a bipod and rear bag I was under a Moa everytime

[Former11B]

It sucks, but I attribute the reloading components used during load development to be a sunk cost. Once you find the load and use it for 1000s of rounds later, the up front "loss" is spread out.

The last two barrels I've worked up loads for have been Rainier Match barrels in 16" and 18" flavors. I guess I got lucky with the 16", because out of the 10 test charges I had loaded 10 rounds for, the second or third was the magic number and it was a tiny group, so small I thought 3 of 5 went off target.

With my 18" barrel, I wasn't so lucky. I was at the point where I thought I had a bad barrel. I shot my first 10 charges/100 rounds with no avail. Had to go home, check my numbers, my components, my rifle, my scope, etc and load more ammo. I was pretty sure other people on the range thought I was some poser buying all the expensive crap (suppressor, pricey parts etc) who couldn't shoot worth a damn because it was horrible. Even factory Black Hills (68gr) shot like crap in it (but it shot bad in 4 other rifles I later tested). I was seriously planning on calling Rainier if my second outing went as bad as the first. It didn't. I hit the magic number and those groups went from bird shot patterns to lights out with a .1 or .2gr difference in a previous charge...can't remember without looking at my notes.

I know it sucks but I really doubt it's the barrel. Keep at it, don't get frustrated and throw the fundamentals out the window (one group up there looked like a breathing issue and another looked like sight picture) and keep at it. If you get frustrated out there, your shooting will suffer and you'll be wasting time and ammo. Keep at it! Can't wait to see that first tight group photo

[alamo5000]

I hit the magic number and those groups went from bird shot patterns to lights out with a .1 or .2gr difference in a previous charge...

Same experience here. Those little .1 grain charge differences made a big difference.

[tappedandtagged]

I know it sucks but I really doubt it's the barrel. Keep at it, don't get frustrated and throw the fundamentals out the window (one group up there looked like a breathing issue and another looked like sight picture) and keep at it. If you get frustrated out there, your shooting will suffer and you'll be wasting time and ammo. Keep at it! Can't wait to see that first tight group photo

The barrel should be capable of more than this with factory ammo. While I'm sure I can find a loading that it will like, I also want a barrel that will shoot decently with factory. And yes, I am getting frustrated.

[alamo5000]

Personally I think your scope is moving. But that's just a guess.

[tappedandtagged]

I called Ballistic Advantage earlier and was asked to re-shoot without the suppressor or muzzle device installed. I shot a 5 and shot group with the Hornady 75 grain ammo. They measured 2.13" and 2.754" respectively. I also tried Hornady 68 grain Match ammo that came on the big brown truck earlier today. That 5 shot group measured 2.495".

I'm sending an email with all this info, and photos, to Kyle at Ballistic Advantage now.

[tappedandtagged]

Got a call from Clint Hanson. He asked me to send my entire upper in so he could properly diagnose the issue. I'll keep you updated.

[Former11B]

Please do. Curious to see what comes out of it. Either way, I'd say you're one step closer to resolution. If they're asking for the barrel and upper, clearly they want to make it right by you, and that's the kind of place I like doing business with.

[JGifford]

I'm a factory ammo guy. I have finally settled on 75gr Gold Dot for my 16.1" DDM4. It's a .gov profile, chrome-lined barrel, and I am getting around 1.5 MOA 10-shot groups with boring regularity using a 4X Nightforce. Magazine fed off a sand-bag.

If your optic is correctly mounted, and you verified the scope does not have any gremlins, something is wrong with your upper, IMO. That barrel SHOULD do MUCH better, and your previous groups indicate that you should easily observe it.

[alamo5000]

I am curious to see what they find.

I am also with Former11B...it speaks volumes that they are taking care of their people. Talk is cheap.

They just made my short list based solely around that.

[tappedandtagged]

They are taking care of me well. I went ahead and sent it with the scope mounted. The Fed Ex guy kinda looked at me weird when I asked for a grand in shipping insurance!

Either way, I gotta say BA has been eager to help me all along.

[JGifford]

They are taking care of me well. I went ahead and sent it with the scope mounted. The Fed Ex guy kinda looked at me weird when I asked for a grand in shipping insurance!

Either way, I gotta say BA has been eager to help me all along.

I remember shipping a suppressed SBR upper (with can in place) at FedEx once. Wrapped it there. That was interesting...