Muzzle Device Questions

[EO3]

I'm very undecided on a muzzle device. It'll be going on a 16" midlength barrel. I basically want the "impossible", in that I'm trying to find a device that keeps my gun as flat as possible, maybe reduces a bit of recoil, but also doesn't have the concussion of a bomb going off. Right now, I'm considering the Griffin M4SD Flash Comp II, VG6 Epsilon, Lantac Dragon or maybe just a BE Saker Flash Hider.

Does anyone have any experience with any of these? I have a Surefire Procomp and it's great, but it has pretty crazy concussion. I'm leaning toward the M4SD as it looks like it does a pretty good job of all three without a secondary device like the CAGE or Lantac BMD.

Thanks for any input!

[Naytwan]

I have a saker on a 13.7" rifle. It pings like a tuning fork but that's easy to fix. There is a groove around the end that you can run an o ring or a wire threw. That stops the ping. I used some wire for hanging pictures. It doesn't do anything for recoil but it's not designed to. It's designed to suppress flash. It's very good at that. I mainly went with the saker cause I plan on leaving CA and eventually want to put a suppressor on the gun. This would mean I wouldn't need to put another mount on the gun, just buy a suppressor with the saker mount.

I have a VG6 Gamma on a 308. It works very well at refusing recoil and keeping the gun flat but the blast is big. Not as much as my Procomp but it's noticeable. Lol. Never messed with the epsilon. That being said I do have a griffin M4SD brake and it blast like the Procomp. It will thump neighbor shooters in the chest at an indoor range.

[SINNER]

If a brake works, it's loud. Honestly can't stand the blast sheild trend. 5.56 barely recoil as it is. Just run a flash hider if blast is an issue.

Best solution is a suppressor.

[EO3]

I'm pretty torn because I think my biggest goal is to have it as flat as possible for quick follow ups. I'd love a suppressor, but I don't have the funds for one any time soon.

[Aragorn]

Micor Flash Suppressor. Been my favorite for years, and in that time I've owned and shot quite a few different devices to include PWS Triad, PWS FSC, Battlecomp, Rainiers first hybrid brake (forgot the designation), AAC Blackout, Smith Vortex, and most recently the EFAB. They went off the market for a bit and finally made a return so I just received my first new one in years. Flattest flash hider I've shot. Ever. Doesn't do anything for recoil as its primary function is flash suppression, but it works great at that too as I've never seen visible flame out if it when shot from a 16" barrel.

Also of note, my first AR started with a PWS FSC and when I swapped to a Micor I gained about .25 MOA accuracy with ammo across the board.

Pain in the ass to order now though as you have to call unless you'd rather print the form, fill it out and fax it. Prices also aren't listed but I paid 59.95 for mine. Disappointed I didn't get a titanium one when they were available.

I WAS looking at the M4SD as a Micor alternative until they came back online, but I haven't shot one.

Link if interested.
http://www.micorind.com/products

The helical cuts are matched to barrel twist rate. No idea what roll that plays, I just know they work.

[EO3]

Micor Flash Suppressor. Been my favorite for years, and in that time I've owned and shot quite a few different devices to include PWS Triad, PWS FSC, Battlecomp, Rainiers first hybrid brake (forgot the designation), AAC Blackout, Smith Vortex, and most recently the EFAB. They went off the market for a bit and finally made a return so I just received my first new one in years. Flattest flash hider I've shot. Ever. Doesn't do anything for recoil as its primary function is flash suppression, but it works great at that too as I've never seen visible flame out if it when shot from a 16" barrel.

Also of note, my first AR started with a PWS FSC and when I swapped to a Micor I gained about .25 MOA accuracy with ammo across the board.

Pain in the ass to order now though as you have to call unless you'd rather print the form, fill it out and fax it. Prices also aren't listed but I paid 59.95 for mine. Disappointed I didn't get a titanium one when they were available.

I WAS looking at the M4SD as a Micor alternative until they came back online, but I haven't shot one.

Link if interested.
http://www.micorind.com/products

The helical cuts are matched to barrel twist rate. No idea what roll that plays, I just know they work.

Thanks for the good info! I actually hadn't even heard of this device. I'm pretty intrigued from what you're saying. For $60 I may have to try it out.

[alamo5000]

I have an SLR flashcomp that is about the same thing as the Griffin you're talking about. It's a combination of a brake and a flash hider and a compensator all three. I have to say that I tested it quite a bit merely out of curiosity and it really does work. The compensator function was actually quite noticeable.

I am pretty much a layman on muzzle devices but I did do pretty extensive testing just so that I could see what it would do and I was made a believer. I didn't really care so much about the flash hiding part, but the compesating part was pretty nice.

On one of my tests I used a led sled on a very open range. I took the muzzle device all the way off and set the gun in the sled unsupported then I squeezed the trigger with just my finger watching and noting the jump. It would go from jumping all the way out of the cradle to not jumping out of it at all with the compensator.

I also used some paracord and hung my gun up level with one point towards the front half of the rail and one point towards the stock and did the same test. Big difference again. Just saying.

[Stone]

Take a look at Precision armaments AFAB, I have them on all my rifles. Theres some really good videos on youtube.

[alamo5000]

If a brake works, it's loud. Honestly can't stand the blast sheild trend. 5.56 barely recoil as it is. Just run a flash hider if blast is an issue.

Best solution is a suppressor.

I was pretty skeptical about the blast shield trend as well but I had a gift card so I got one basically for free (It cost me like $5 after I used my gift card). I will say in some situations it does have some benefits. It might not be the thing for everyone admittedly but in some situations it can have some benefits.

If for some reason I don't run the suppressor because of whatever or if I need a really compact setup I would probably run a blast shield especially if shooting in a confined space.

Check out the video from Griffin. The video actually does real tests to show it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7wM_7kAv6g

[cjd3]

Until I went the supressor route, I really liked my Rainier XTC. Their XTC 2.0 looks good too.

[Aragorn]

Thanks for the good info! I actually hadn't even heard of this device. I'm pretty intrigued from what you're saying. For $60 I may have to try it out.

I (seriously) doubt it'll be flatter than the Lantac or Epsilon you mentioned, as when I shot a Surefire Procomp it was flatter than the Micor. Then again that's to be expected of a pure brake.

But of the hybrids and pure flash hiders, the Micor owns. Flattest muzzle, no flame, A2-like concussion. And really it DID NOT give up much to the FSC in terms of muzzle deviation. Which, the PWS FSC is their TTO brake with flash hiding tines on the end. So yeah, in my mind it's a brake. The deviation difference between the Micor and FSC was insignificant enough that I couldn't shoot the difference between them at speed.

[Deadwing]

Here's a fairly comprehensive test of various muzzle devices, including photos of muzzle flash and videos comparing muzzle movement in relation to a bare muzzle: http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/uncategorized/ar-15-muzzle-device-comparison/

I've never ran a "hybrid" muzzle device, but it seems to me that something designed to do two different things won't do either one as well as a dedicated device (i.e. flash hider or brake). If a suppressor is in your future, maybe think about a muzzle device compatible with that can. Aside from running something to mount a can, i've used various Battlecomps, AAC Blackout, Smith Vortex, and of course the venerable A2 birdcage. With the mild recoil of 5.56 and linear recoil impulse, i've never had a problem putting shots on target regardless of what muzzle device i happen to be running.

[JGifford]

I'm very undecided on a muzzle device. It'll be going on a 16" midlength barrel. I basically want the "impossible", in that I'm trying to find a device that keeps my gun as flat as possible, maybe reduces a bit of recoil, but also doesn't have the concussion of a bomb going off. Right now, I'm considering the Griffin M4SD Flash Comp II, VG6 Epsilon, Lantac Dragon or maybe just a BE Saker Flash Hider.

Does anyone have any experience with any of these? I have a Surefire Procomp and it's great, but it has pretty crazy concussion. I'm leaning toward the M4SD as it looks like it does a pretty good job of all three without a secondary device like the CAGE or Lantac BMD.

Thanks for any input!
I absolutely love my SF Warcomp. That, and my suppressors fit on it...

At night, there is hardly ANY flash, it keeps my gun noticeably flatter, and to my ears, it sounds similar to a bare muzzle. It's having your cake and eating it, too. The only thing it DOESN'T do, is mitigate REARWARD recoil. You still get 90% of that.

[EO3]

I guess half of my problem is deciding what it is I really want it to do. And I'm having a hard time doing so, which is what has me thinking "maybe get a hybrid device that is decent at all three" and just sit somewhere in the middle. I don't really shoot at night, and I don't see myself getting a suppressor anytime in the near future. I shoot at my house (the neighbors aren't TOO far, so I want to be somewhat courteous to them) and an outdoor range most of the time. So I don't want to have ridiculous concussion, either. Like everyone says, recoil is already so light on 5.56, that it isn't really necessary to have a muzzle device reduce it further.

I'm basically stuck at this: What can I put on the end of my barrel that will keep it relatively flat and not have crazy concussion or a massive fireball? Maybe just a flash hider that also stays relatively flat? Can anyone else speak for the Micor muzzle device?

[alamo5000]

I guess half of my problem is deciding what it is I really want it to do. And I'm having a hard time doing so, which is what has me thinking "maybe get a hybrid device that is decent at all three" and just sit somewhere in the middle. I don't really shoot at night, and I don't see myself getting a suppressor anytime in the near future. I shoot at my house (the neighbors aren't TOO far, so I want to be somewhat courteous to them) and an outdoor range most of the time. So I don't want to have ridiculous concussion, either. Like everyone says, recoil is already so light on 5.56, that it isn't really necessary to have a muzzle device reduce it further.

I'm basically stuck at this: What can I put on the end of my barrel that will keep it relatively flat and not have crazy concussion or a massive fireball? Maybe just a flash hider that also stays relatively flat? Can anyone else speak for the Micor muzzle device?

A solution to all this is to buy my SLR muzzle hybrid that I am not using [:D] I am just being honest in saying that it will most likely meet all of your needs.

Trust me though I was in your same shoes not too long ago. You want a suppressor but you don't have it yet. You want to shoot but not piss off the neighborhood...

I think you would be happy with a lot of things and to me at least my opinion on the jack of all trades thing doesn't always apply to muzzle devices. It's better that they be done right is the most important thing. Specifically on the compensating thing I've since shot some that way over compensate. I've shot others that don't seem to do anything (not compensating enough). The trick is to divert just enough of the muzzle blast upwards so that you get the right amount of compensation. It actually works by diverting part of the muzzle blast upwards thus driving the barrel down thus offsetting a motion.

Like I said I've shot some that I was having to re-acquire by pulling up...too much compensating = bad design. In other words don't fear a hybrid for that.

Nothing you buy will tame the noise down either. You're going to have to live with it. What that brake will do is divert that blast out to the sides and some will even direct it back towards the shooter, the aim being to offset the recoil to some degree.

I am the king of over thinking so I can say this... don't over think it. Just get something good from a good place and odds are you will be fine. There might be some bad choices but there are a number of good ones too.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

I am the king of over thinking so I can say this... don't over think it.

How long have I been saying this to you... Just sayin...

[alamo5000]

How long have I been saying this to you... Just sayin...

It was bound to sink in eventually [:D]

[JGifford]

A concussive muzzle device won't matter to the neighbors. Just you and those on the line.

[alamo5000]

How long have I been saying this to you... Just sayin...

On a certain level just trying to buy something over the internet on a first time purchase of something a person doesn't really 'get' until they test it out themselves is kind of difficult for some of us [BD]

As far as the OP is concerned I really do get it... you have like 900 choices and you get gray hair trying to figure out which one for your new build.

Just saying...it will help once you get one and test it. Then later on you can swap or not or form a much better opinion.

If you're not certain ask here on WEVO if anyone has tried it or not. If you have 3 or 4 people all saying 'you are good to go' then trust me, you will be good to go. I have yet to be steered wrong.

[Joelski]

I'm looking to put the 7.62 Flashcomp on my 300 both for its virtues and as an attachment device. Presently, I'm using an SLR Synergy comp on my 223 and like it's perfor.ance and looks. I agree that a brake isn't as critical for a small caliber rifle as say, a .336L, or 50 BMG, but I also don't wring the last bit of accuracy out of my AR's at my level of skill at long range shooting. ymmv.

[fledge]

Have you looked at DeadAir's muzzle brake? It has ports designed to offset side concussion. Worth looking at. And then you can get our dead air suppressor later...

[rob_s]

A device that claims to reduce flash and recoil will do both poorly.

The way to get reduced recoil without a blast is to fiddle-fuck with the internals; gas system and springs.

[Hmac]

I have BattleComp 1.0s on my rifles, and they all have A5 systems. That combo works fine for me. I'm told that the BattleComps are blasty but they don't bother me much from where I stand.

[SINNER]

A device that claims to reduce flash and recoil will do both poorly.

The way to get reduced recoil without a blast is to fiddle-fuck with the internals; gas system and springs.

This. On a properly tuned rifle, any brake will have minimal impact.

[mustangfreek]

I recently tried out the battlecomp, seems good so far .using a epsilon on another and with limited run find it seems to work good, but is damn loud.

One I've been using for a little while now and really liking it is the SVcomp, that and swapping in a heavier buffer in that rifle it shoots way smoother then before..

This thread is like pickles ....so many to choose from , skinny ones, long ones, sweet of sour, or even deep fried....[:D]

[EO3]

I recently tried out the battlecomp, seems good so far .using a epsilon on another and with limited run find it seems to work good, but is damn loud.

One I've been using for a little while now and really liking it is the SVcomp, that and swapping in a heavier buffer in that rifle it shoots way smoother then before..

This thread is like pickles ....so many to choose from , skinny ones, long ones, sweet of sour, or even deep fried....[:D]

Well... put me down for some deep fried with a side of ranch!

[DUX]

Hello. I'm new here. I'm just wanting to participate. I hope I don't step on any toes. I've used a few breaks and flash suppressors over the years and have always come back to the A2 birdcage. My personal experiences has been that recoil on an AR has more to do with the balance point of the rifle build rather than what's on the tip. Any gains in recoil reduction were more than off-set by being just flat out uncomfortable to shoot. The A2 does a much better job than a lot of people today give it credit for in my opinion. It's cheap, and that's why I think it's painted as being outdated by some. No money in it for the manufacturers. Again, it's just my personal experience here. I hope you enjoy your rife no matter what you choose.

[UWone77]

Hello. I'm new here. I'm just wanting to participate. I hope I don't step on any toes. I've used a few breaks and flash suppressors over the years and have always come back to the A2 birdcage. My personal experiences has been that recoil on an AR has more to do with the balance point of the rifle build rather than what's on the tip. Any gains in recoil reduction were more than off-set by being just flat out uncomfortable to shoot. The A2 does a much better job than a lot of people today give it credit for in my opinion. It's cheap, and that's why I think it's painted as being outdated by some. No money in it for the manufacturers. Again, it's just my personal experience here. I hope you enjoy your rife no matter what you choose.

Welcome, and yes you're right. A balanced carbine and a $5 A2 FH still does a great job. I think there's been a great marketing job for muzzle devices that are marginally better than the old A2. There are a lot more people "building" rifles, so it's been common to go out and buy a new muzzle device vs just sticking to what came on your barrel in a factory gun. Using more guns as suppressor hosts also affect this.

[EO3]

Hello. I'm new here. I'm just wanting to participate. I hope I don't step on any toes. I've used a few breaks and flash suppressors over the years and have always come back to the A2 birdcage. My personal experiences has been that recoil on an AR has more to do with the balance point of the rifle build rather than what's on the tip. Any gains in recoil reduction were more than off-set by being just flat out uncomfortable to shoot. The A2 does a much better job than a lot of people today give it credit for in my opinion. It's cheap, and that's why I think it's painted as being outdated by some. No money in it for the manufacturers. Again, it's just my personal experience here. I hope you enjoy your rife no matter what you choose.

Welcome to WEVO! Lots of great people here. I'm slowly learning this myself. I think like UW said, suppressor are part of the muzzle device fad, as the A2 isn't compatible. I think another thing, aside from the good marketing and fad, if you will, is that to a lot of people, it seems easier to go find a muzzle device that "reduces recoil, keeps your gun flat, etc." than it is to buy and adjustable gas block, or buy a lightweight BCG, or buy a different buffer and/or buffer spring. I know for a long time, before I learned what I know now, I was of that mindset. Overall, I think it's pretty hard to argue that the A2 isn't the best bang for your buck as far as muzzle devices go.

[rob_s]

there is also, without a doubt, a certain amount of people trying to "buy skill" with a brake, and fake-ninja with a flash hider. Then you combine the tow and you get all of these marketing gneiuses coming up with brakes and giving them gunfighting names so that they appear to be suitable for ninja-ing and things go nuts. Battlecomp was the first one to do this I'm aware of and since then every single muzzle device claims to emit zero flash and zero muzzle rise and therefore be great for everything from gaming to killing moose-limbs.

There is a point in a shooter's skillset development where having a brake will help. The first of those points tend to be at the very beginning of their development where their skills are so lacking that mechanical aids take up some of the slack. The second point is at a very high level where someone like Jerry Miculek can actually take advantage of the marginal improvement in muzzle control gained with a quality brake by a very high level shooter.

Not sure if this image will come through or not, but this kind of sums it up.

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/280053_745627148827723_1998453993107820908_o.jpg

[Txfilmmaker]

I just built my first rifle. I had two options for muzzle devices. Both free. (For me) :) One is a Lantac Dragon, the other is a Fossa 556 flash hider. (3 prong) I decided to try the Dragon, first. The Dragon works as advertised, but like all brakes, it's pretty loud. Part of my job is mixing sound for TV and film. I need to protect my hearing so I'm going to switch to the Fossa 556. It's great to read that my flash hider is still a good option. The Fossa has some minor muzzle rise mitigation, as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Joelski]

Muzzle devices are like chairs; there's an asshole for everyone ya got.

[DUX]

UWone77 & E03; thank you for the warm welcome. It's much appreciated. I don't know much about sound suppressors as I've never owned one. I can see why guys who enjoy them wouldn't consider the A2 as an option for that reason after giving modern silencers the once over lightly (http://www.gem-tech.com/store/pc/GMT-HALO-9p932.htm). I did want to also suggest to the OP the following as an option if they have not made their mind up already, but do not want to go the A2 route. I've used this one years ago and found it to be a good break. My eyes are sensitive to recoil blast so I eventually even abandoned this item, but for those not as acutely affected by backblast it may prove a useful, if overlooked suggestion. It's the father of the Battlecomp. Thanks again. EGW Muzzle Brake A2 http://www.egwguns.com/index.php?p=catalog&parent=211&pg=1

P.S. OP; in case you are interested, I find the best balance point for the AR-15 to be about a half inch behind the magazine well. Roughly the point where the carrier group and bolt slam into the chamber of the barrel.

[rob_s]

I've used this one years ago and found it to be a good break. My eyes are sensitive to recoil blast so I eventually even abandoned this item, but for those not as acutely affected by backblast it may prove a useful, if overlooked suggestion. It's the father of the Battlecomp. Thanks again. EGW Muzzle Brake A2 http://www.egwguns.com/index.php?p=catalog&parent=211&pg=1

I'm curious about this statement. How are they connected?

[DUX]

@ rob_s :) I say that, but I don't have any definitive proof of it. It's said in a half-joking manner on my part. It works on a similar principle to the Battlecomp (i.e. baffle across the front), but came out years before the Battlecomp did (2004 I believe). It does the same basic job as the Battlecomp, but the exhaust gasses are blown primarily upward rather than out to the side. You can get them for 30-40 bucks all day long on the used market so it's substantially cheaper. It's just an option to consider for the OP. Before the EGW came out I used to use an AK-74 break. Those still work pretty well too.