Fastest way to clean your carrier groups

[DUX]

I'm curious how some of you guys clean your internal components on your weapons after a day on the range. I have a little pan of diesel fuel. I disassemble and throw everything in. I let everything sit overnight in the pan; pull it out the next day and wipe everything down, reassemble, and lube it up. Do any of you guys know of a faster, easier way? Thank you in advance for any advice.

[SINNER]

Buy a ultrasonic tank. For less than $100 the time saved is worth every penny. Big plus for cleaning suppressors also.

[DUX]

@SINNER: Hot dog! LOL! Boy am I out of the loop! I saw one of those in 1987 on an old TV Show called "Beyond 2000." This guy was wanting to market them as a replacement for traditional clothes washers. A couple of decades later I guess that tech tree found it's niche. I will most definitely look into your suggestion. Thank you.

[DeviantLogic]

How many rounds are you firing for a typical day at the range? I don't really go crazy with cleaning...my normal post-range cleaning is about 15 minutes for an AR. Break down the BCG, spray with CLP, brush, q-tips, reassemble + lube. I also wipe down the upper/lower with a rag and run a boresnake through the barrel. Everything doesn't need to be spotless. Every 1000 rounds, I do a more detailed cleaning.

[DUX]

I average about 300 rounds per outing per rifle. The older I get, the lazier I become about cleaning, but I try to have each rifle ready to rock'n roll within a couple of days of usage.

Edit: I use Hoppe's #9, a chamber brush and bore snake on the upper, and wipe down the upper and lower with a rag. If the upper and/or lower get grimy I hit it with gun scrub and wipe it out with an automotive rag real well; few Q-tips too. I shoot at least once a month if not twice. A few from the bench, a few more off-hand, several drills, et al.

[rob_s]

I don't clean rifles until they malfunction, or I get well north of 1k rounds on the gun.

For the BCG, which is essentially the only part I really "clean" at that point, I break it down all the way, hose it off with Slip2000 725 Gun Cleaner (https://www.slip2000.com/slip2000_725.php) , drop the bolt itself, and extractor, into some Slip2000 Carbon Killer (https://www.slip2000.com/slip2000_carbon_killer.php) for a couple of hours, then hose that back off with the 725, hit it with an air hose (or, in hotel rooms, rinse it off in the sink) before I apply Slip2000 EWL (https://www.slip2000.com/slip2000_ewl.php) and/or EWL 30 (https://www.slip2000.com/slip2000_ewl30.php), or grease (https://www.slip2000.com/slip2000_ewg.php).

[Joelski]

I'm considering a piston drive from Superlative. Among the benefits, I hope to stretch cleaning cycles way out.

[Slippers]

I'm considering a piston drive from Superlative. Among the benefits, I hope to stretch cleaning cycles way out.

Don't use a suppressor then, it'll be just as dirty as a non piston setup. :)

[rob_s]

I'm considering a piston drive from Superlative. Among the benefits, I hope to stretch cleaning cycles way out.

Curious.

What is your current "cycle"? What do you anticipate to be your new "cycle"?

Also, what is your current cleaning regiment?

[Joelski]

Don't use a suppressor then, it'll be just as dirty as a non piston setup. :)

That's reason #1 for the piston. ;)

[SINNER]

Unless it is a duty weapon issued to you, I will NEVER understand the logic of not cleaning weapons. I have a few older AK's that I kept spotlessly clean. True I only paid a few hundred bucks for them and when purchased they were truly considered a poor quality throw away. If I neglected those rifles they would in fact be a throw a way by now. Instead they are worth thousands of dollars in today's market. Almost like saying you don't change your engine oil in your vehicle because you only keep them for a few years.

[Joelski]

Curious.

What is your current "cycle"? What do you anticipate to be your new "cycle"?

Also, what is your current cleaning regiment?

I clean each, or every other time i go out and I nofmally shoot up to 500 rounds in a day in the field. For cleaning, I disassemble, clean with Hoppe's and a brass brush, lube with synthetic, either Royal Purple, or Mobil 1.

Probably overkill but so what?

[alamo5000]

That's reason #1 for the piston. ;)

I have looked into this and if you think for a minute that piston guns will be cleaner when running a suppressor I have a bridge to sell you.

Shooting non suppressed there may be some kind of odd difference but in that case I read one article where I guy took his DI gun to 30K rounds without cleaning before he had a malfunction. 500 rounds certainly won't make a difference.

As for shooting suppressed think it through. You have a round chambered... the gun fires... the bullet travels down the bore under intense pressure (PSI) which is what propels the bullet forward. Out towards the end of your barrel with a piston system you have a small port that operates the piston. But the primary PSI is still inside the actual bore. Introduce a suppressor into the equation and those pressures go up with probably 90% of the gas being captured still in the bore which causes back pressure, which causes gas in the face or whatever.

Just remember that energy will take the path of least resistance. If you have a tiny little port hole on the side of a barrel... and then you have a tube that has a MUCH bigger hole in it with much greater volume (IE the bore)...which one do you think it will take? Your blow back, soot, grime, or whatever is a sheer matter of high school physics. 90%+ of that stuff is contained in the bore throughout the whole process.

Trying to bleed off just enough to make your bolt cycle is only harnessing a small fraction of that controlled chaos that happens inside your bore. Shooting regular all that stuff is blown out the end of the muzzle for the most part. Add a suppressor and no.

[Joelski]

I have looked into this.. <snip>

Obviously. I understand back pressure, thanks. I plan to try it out with the understanding that no system is better than its compromises.

[DUX]

@rob_s: I guess I over clean my weapons. Force of habit I suppose.

@joelski: All of my AR's are direct impingement so I can't speak to a piston driven AR, but the cleanest firing rifle I ever shot was the Vz.58. I can shoot 300 rounds out of that rifle and it's always been just a shop towel wipe down on the carrier to clean it and that's it. Just my 2 cents.

[Slippers]

That's reason #1 for the piston. ;)

Wait, what? You want a piston because you believe it will run cleaner with a suppressor? Prepare to be disappointed. A piston setup doesn't help at all with reducing the amount of crud coming back from the barrel/chamber when shooting suppressed. Both piston and DI run equally dirty suppressed.

[Joelski]

I undrrstood. Thanks.

[DUX]

I undrrstood. Thanks.

Just put some crisco on it; it be a'ite! :)

[Joelski]

Just put some crisco on it; it be a'ite! :)

I'm gonna put two suppressors, clean it half as often as the worst pig here and be twice as cool as Elvis. F@ck yeah!

[gatordev]

I have looked into this and if you think for a minute that piston guns will be cleaner when running a suppressor I have a bridge to sell you.

...lots of words...

I don't know what to tell you. x00 rounds, suppressed through my op rod gun will have a cleaner chamber and BCG than x00 rounds through a DI gun. It's certainly not pristine, but it does run cleaner, per round. Now the outside of the gun is a different matter. But if the concern is the internals of the weapon, just based on how the system is designed, an op-rod gun is going to be cleaner.

A far more valuable and relevant argument is whether all the other costs of an op rod gun are worth it. Gigabytes of internet are devoted to such arguments.

[Joelski]

I don't know what to tell you. x00 rounds, suppressed through my op rod gun will have a cleaner chamber and BCG than x00 rounds through a DI gun. It's certainly not pristine, but it does run cleaner, per round. Now the outside of the gun is a different matter. But if the concern is the internals of the weapon, just based on how the system is designed, an op-rod gun is going to be cleaner.

A far more valuable and relevant argument is whether all the other costs of an op rod gun are worth it. Gigabytes of internet are devoted to such arguments.

gatordev: THANK YOU.

What other costs are there if you are not an obsessive tweaker? I care nothing for specialized parts if the blackout works as advertised.

[UWone77]

I don't know what to tell you. x00 rounds, suppressed through my op rod gun will have a cleaner chamber and BCG than x00 rounds through a DI gun. It's certainly not pristine, but it does run cleaner, per round. Now the outside of the gun is a different matter. But if the concern is the internals of the weapon, just based on how the system is designed, an op-rod gun is going to be cleaner.

A far more valuable and relevant argument is whether all the other costs of an op rod gun are worth it. Gigabytes of internet are devoted to such arguments.

Agreed. I have exactly 2 Piston Guns, both kits. Superlative and an Adams Arms.

Both guns are cleaner internally, but filthy at the Piston. In fact the Adams is so filthy, the plug will not budge now. Can't move it to suppressed mode.

[Joelski]

I'd done some reading and wasn't 100% sure, but I did have my coffee this morning. Thank you both for validating my hopes.

Now, does the SA block fit under the Mk4 rail, or what? [:D]

Also, as the SA block shoots the gas forward, how cruddy does the back of the can get and does it make it hard to release? Thanks man!

[rob_s]

I clean each, or every other time i go out and I nofmally shoot up to 500 rounds in a day in the field. For cleaning, I disassemble, clean with Hoppe's and a brass brush, lube with synthetic, either Royal Purple, or Mobil 1.

Probably overkill but so what?

If you know you're over-killing it, then why are you looking to change to a piston?

[Joelski]

Why do people buy new rails? Why doesn't everybody adhere strictly to the COLT-version of Mil-Spec? Why indeed, did Sir Edmund Hillary climb Mount Everest?

Because its something else to waste my money on!

[JGifford]

That's reason #1 for the piston. ;)

That's the number 1 reason people buy them, but they don't like to be suppressed, truth be told. Suppressing a piston gun sucks, compared to the Stoner system.

[JGifford]

I don't know what to tell you. x00 rounds, suppressed through my op rod gun will have a cleaner chamber and BCG than x00 rounds through a DI gun. It's certainly not pristine, but it does run cleaner, per round. Now the outside of the gun is a different matter. But if the concern is the internals of the weapon, just based on how the system is designed, an op-rod gun is going to be cleaner.

A far more valuable and relevant argument is whether all the other costs of an op rod gun are worth it. Gigabytes of internet are devoted to such arguments.

A better question is...is this mechanically superior? I ran my suppressed stoner system for 1500+ rounds of Wolf day in and day out for 3 days, lubed only with MPRO7 LPX, initially, with no additional lube. Ran like a champ. Even when I took the can off at the end, still cycled. With Wolf 55gr black-box.

Keep in mind that AAC had to re-design their suppressors to keep from breaking the HK416 in testing, the AUG had a special gas-port insert to allow suppressed use, and the SCAR is on what now, Revision 7, 8? Ask Jim Fuller about a suppressed AK build sometime. He will tell you what a pain it was to design things so that they worked CORRECTLY and with longevity in mind.

The Stoner system allows more..."elasticity" in the system, by design. This makes it quieter, and less abusive to parts, if correctly gassed. This elasticity is why you don't need an adjustable gas-block for function with the Stoner system, and why every piston system I am aware of that was designed for suppressed use has either an adjustable system, or is abusively rough on parts and had to have a special lower back-pressure can made for it. Why do you think HK hopped in bed so fast with OSS, while none of the Stoner system companies have? Pistons hate additional back-pressure...

[JGifford]

Wait, what? You want a piston because you believe it will run cleaner with a suppressor? Prepare to be disappointed. A piston setup doesn't help at all with reducing the amount of crud coming back from the barrel/chamber when shooting suppressed. Both piston and DI run equally dirty suppressed.

100% exactly. The filth in my weapon after 1500+ rounds suppressed had JACK and SHIT to do with the little puff of gas coming out of the gas tube, lol

Notice all the build-up on the OUTSIDE of the gas-key where it would be impossible to have been deposited by the gas-tube, as well as other similarly unlikely areas if that were the mechanism. Now, with a piston system, understand that timing is even worse, typically, because the elastic nature of the stoner system is replaced with a metal rod.
http://i65.tinypic.com/6h7pj8.jpg

[JGifford]

@rob_s: I guess I over clean my weapons. Force of habit I suppose.

@joelski: All of my AR's are direct impingement so I can't speak to a piston driven AR, but the cleanest firing rifle I ever shot was the Vz.58. I can shoot 300 rounds out of that rifle and it's always been just a shop towel wipe down on the carrier to clean it and that's it. Just my 2 cents.
Check out the backwash down the bore from a suppressed VZ-58:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_FDe2fRpDM

Skip to 1:45, and a few seconds later, with the greenery as a backdrop, you can see all the high-pressure filth being blasted into the workings of the weapon.


Also take into account that the 7.62x39 round has SIGNIFICANTLY lower chamber/bore pressures than the 5.56x45 round.

[Joelski]

Both guns are cleaner internally, but filthy at the Piston. In fact the Adams is so filthy, the plug will not budge now. Can't move it to suppressed mode.

A short blast of brake cleaner will make that stuff fall off.

[alamo5000]

A short blast of brake cleaner will make that stuff fall off.

Use the GREEN can...non chlorinated one...

[din]

Use the GREEN can...non chlorinated one...

Well, unless you hate your BCG and want to teach it a lesson.