So I Need a Lower

[Pyzik]

So a friend has been looking for a specific lower that I had, my Michigan Gun Owners Mega lower. He was wanting one for an SBR so I sold him mine.

Which was my main lower and now I need another.

Looking at another SMOS. Also looking at the Hex CMT lower.
Any other flared lowers that are around the <$200 price tag?

While not flared I'm also looking at the Spike's Crusader.

[Stone]

BAD lower. $198

[Pyzik]

BAD lower. $198

I've been looking at that one too, simply because I've been wanting it for so long. Just doesn't have the mag flare I wish it had.

[DUX]

I like AERO precision. 90 bucks. But then again I take old Bushmasters and turn them into solid pea-shooters. I get a sick sense of satisfaction building a 700-800 dollar AR that does all the things the Gucci ones do. :)

[Dstrbdmedic167]

The Hex or UHP15A is a solid lowers as is the RA mod 3 lowers and you can get those at Rainier using your Apex membership.

Hard to go wrong with SMOS either especially since you have one already.

Other lowers would be a Area 53 lower would be a good choice as well. BAD lower wouldn't be bad either.


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[Joelski]

Noveske's have the flair, but not the pricetag.

I thought the Hexmag people put a block on CMT's "not a magazine, but cease and desist anyway" receivers?

[Pyzik]

Noveske's have the flair, but not the pricetag.

I thought the Hexmag people put a block on CMT's "not a magazine, but cease and desist anyway" receivers?
I see it's been removed from CMC's page but not Rainier's.

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[UWone77]

I like AERO precision. 90 bucks. But then again I take old Bushmasters and turn them into solid pea-shooters. I get a sick sense of satisfaction building a 700-800 dollar AR that does all the things the Gucci ones do. :)

Please define Gucci.

[UWone77]

I see it's been removed from CMC's page but not Rainier's.

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RA just hasn't gotten around to removing it.

Dave you looking for a Billet I take it?

[Pyzik]

RA just hasn't gotten around to removing it.

Dave you looking for a Billet I take it?
I really don't care. Forged is fine. My main concern is price. And I do like me some flare. This SMOS set is spoiling me.

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[UWone77]

I really don't care. Forged is fine. My main concern is price. And I do like me some flare. This SMOS set is spoiling me.

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I think you might have answered your own question if you liked the SMOS. Any reason not to get another Mega, even if it doesn't have your Michigan Shooters logo? Just the magwell thing?

[Pyzik]

I think you might have answered your own question if you liked the SMOS. Any reason not to get another Mega, even if it doesn't have your Michigan Shooters logo? Just the magwell thing?
Honestly, I don't like Mega's standard roll mark. That's it. I know I'm being vain.

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[UWone77]

Honestly, I don't like Mega's standard roll mark. That's it. I know I'm being vain.

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You need to get yourself a CMT SSA Lower then.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

The SSA's are nice and clean.


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[Pyzik]

The SSA's are nice and clean.


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Agreed

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[DUX]

Gucci? Anything that is not this: 981

Or anything that has a free-float rail/tube. :)

[UWone77]

Gucci? Anything that is not this: 981

Or anything that has a free-float rail/tube. :)

Plenty of guys run rifles with FF Rails and didn't spend a ton of money on their gun. If you can't or don't want to spend the cash on one, doesn't mean it's "gucci" gun. Lots of purpose driven guns out there that cost relatively a lot, but by no means gucci.

[DUX]

Plenty of guys run rifles with FF Rails and didn't spend a ton of money on their gun. If you can't or don't want to spend the cash on one, doesn't mean it's "gucci" gun. Lots of purpose driven guns out there that cost relatively a lot, but by no means gucci.

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! I was being self-deprecating, not accusing anyone of anything. I have no issue with anyone who likes them. None at all.

[UWone77]

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! I was being self-deprecating, not accusing anyone of anything. I have no issue with anyone who likes them. None at all.

So what you're saying is.. you need a FF rail? [:D]

[Pyzik]

Ah. Hahaha. Was thinking, damn I'm so Gucci.

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[DUX]

@UWone77: I don't care for them myself. I have reasons for it but it would start a huge fight if I expounded upon the subject.

[Joelski]

Ah. Hahaha. Was thinking, damn I'm so Gucci.

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You are kinda Gucci, and I mean that in the most manly/brotherly/hetero way possibe when one speaks of Gucci. [:D]

What about the CMT/Rainer without the QD holes? I like that one better than my Holier than thou Battle Kitty lower

[UWone77]

@UWone77: I don't care for them myself. I have reasons for it but it would start a huge fight if I expounded upon the subject.

Well you opened the can of worms... now you have to defend your position. What's wrong with FF Rails?

[DUX]

Well you opened the can of worms... now you have to defend your position. What's wrong with FF Rails?

I have to tell most of you that you're doing it wrong, in more ways than just the FF rails. Are you sure you want me to?

[Pyzik]

You are kinda Gucci, and I mean that in the most manly/brotherly/hetero way possibe when one speaks of Gucci. [:D]

What about the CMT/Rainer without the QD holes? I like that one better than my Holier than thou Battle Kitty lower
Bahaha, there are many, many more Gucci than I.

I think Uwone and dstrbdmedic have me sold on the SSA.

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[UWone77]

I have to tell most of you that you're doing it wrong, in more ways than just the FF rails. Are you sure you want me to?

Oh now I have to hear this...

And being serious, please preface this with your training and experience, also how many AR's you own/built, classes taken, ect.

[Pyzik]

I have to tell most of you that you're doing it wrong, in more ways than just the FF rails. Are you sure you want me to?
My wife tells me I'm wrong on a daily basis, I'm used to it. And I'm still right anyway.

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[DUX]

Oh now I have to hear this...

I sense a TRAP! "I choose not to run!"

[Dstrbdmedic167]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160407/37b8e30e0eb3ebd20a1bbd96f7355f25.jpg


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[DUX]

All that matters is that you guys are happy. You don't want me to tell you what I know. You will be VERY upset. You will punch and hit and do mean-man stuff to me if I do. :)

[UWone77]

So that all talk about how everyone is building and shooting their rifles wrong... but all we get is wasted bandwidth with pictures.

[DeviantLogic]

http://38.media.tumblr.com/617f3fa3ee565b6fb86af48c0c9eaa0a/tumblr_nkt983tH4p1s373hwo1_400.gif

[UWone77]

All that matters is that you guys are happy. You don't want me to tell you what I know. You will be VERY upset. You will punch and hit and do mean-man stuff to me if I do. :)

Actually, we like people who make claims and then back it up with real world experience and knowledge. Otherwise you're just wasting time posting drivel.

[DUX]

http://38.media.tumblr.com/617f3fa3ee565b6fb86af48c0c9eaa0a/tumblr_nkt983tH4p1s373hwo1_400.gif

PMSL! :)

[Stickman]

Let me guess, you have one $500 AR and it's bad ass.

[Joelski]

[pop]

Are you a female? That would explain the "You're all doing it wrong" part. [:D]

[Dstrbdmedic167]

http://38.media.tumblr.com/617f3fa3ee565b6fb86af48c0c9eaa0a/tumblr_nkt983tH4p1s373hwo1_400.gif

Some say under his helmet, is another smaller helmet and under that is another helmet and under that is a poster of Miley Cyrus. All we know is, we call him The Stig...

[Joelski]

The STIG RAWKS!!!!

[SINNER]

What an asshole.

[Pyzik]

Awe man. You scared him off.

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[DUX]

Actually, we like people who make claims and then back it up with real world experience and knowledge. Otherwise you're just wasting time posting drivel.

OK, ok. You if you force me to. I am but a mere servant. :)

READ THIS FIRST: First of all, it depends upon what you want to do with the rifle, and we're talking about AR's here. For the sake of argument we're going to pretend like you want a 16 inch AR for Defensive, Target Shooting, and Hunting purposes. Second, we're going to assume you have not met "The Beast" or "The Elephant" yet. These are the ground rules because they apply to the greatest majority of shooters. We will also assume that you are not wealthy and are of average means.

1. Free Float Tubes do not do you any good, but they do make your rifle heavier, often unbalanced, and force you to wear gloves because they get really hot in just the plain old sunshine. They call them "Cheese Graders" for a reason and even the new ones have that issue depending upon how you grip or pickup your rifle. You are not a good enough shot and do not have enough premium ammo on tap to justify them. You shoot Tula and Wolf and Surplus Military rounds MOST of the time. (Nothing wrong with those rounds. Nobody and nothing is going to stand in front of them, ever!) Also, the improvement in accuracy is mostly a myth. It might make some difference in some scenarios for some kinds of shooting with some kinds of ammo, but by and large you're not gaining a thing by having one except potential problems that you will then have to remedy down the road. A lot of your sniper shots are in reality propaganda. The practice of having one guy take a shot with a heavy caliber rifle while a guy real close to the target takes a shot simultaneously is well known to anyone who's ever been in military combat arms. Most of us ain't Snipers and never will be. Save your money and burns on your hands.

2. Use a full auto weight carrier and an H2 buffer in your Carbine. It's the easiest way to time your rifle. Using lightened carriers just makes you have to make up the timing with heavier buffers and an H2 is enough mass as-is. Some guys go light carriers and light buffers. The rifle is badly mis-timed this way. It's way too fast and you will have stove-pipes and failures to extract.

3. Stop using special coatings on your carriers and start using more lube. People are running AR's too dry and trying to make up for it by special coatings. It's inefficient, overly expensive, doesn't work as well, and is very shiny, which is something you do not want on a weapon you might have to use in a defensive capacity.

4. Stop using heavy barrels unless you are just a paper puncher. Heavy is bad for a defensive weapon. VERY VERY BAD. You're not going to have the high dollar ammo on an average budget, and if you had to use that weapon in anger the FEAR you're going to feel is going to shut down your higher level thinking and your accuracy is going to go to sh*t anyway. No matter how much you train, there is no substitute for not being tired. Being lucky is also very important. :)

5. Do not put one thing on your rifle other than MAYBE a light and if you do mount it ON THE BOTTOM of the barrel. That is the optimal location for casting the shadow in the most beneficial direction when you're sweeping an area. (Additionally, never sweep and clear a building anyway. Burn it down or blow it up. If it's a home defense situation that I can see, but that's about it)

6. A 4 coil extractor spring, black stand-off, o-ring or delta-ring under the extractor, and reliable non-crush anti-tilt magazines are the only innovations on the AR platform that are truly worth their salt during the last 10 years of hyper-marketing AR parts. Make sure that is apart of all your AR's.

In Conclusion: You're making your rifles way too complicated and heavy and paying for things you do not need. I know it's a hobby to most and that's fine and dandy, but you wanted to know what I thought so I obliged. Thank you for reading. I shall now brace for impact. :)

[Pyzik]

I'll admit I'm a plinker by far. Rifles are set up to be used if need be but they're range toys.

If I need to shoot someone is about a 99.9999% chance they're going to get shot with my M&P9.

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[DUX]

@Pyzik: You're realistic in my book, for whatever that's worth!

[DUX]

Let me guess, you have one $500 AR and it's bad ass.

Just two right now but I've had many. "Beware the man with just one rifle. He probably knows how to use it." ;)

[Ordnance]

Lmao... Now I'm going to lay waste to you..


OK, ok. You if you force me to. I am but a mere servant. :)

READ THIS FIRST: First of all, it depends upon what you want to do with the rifle, and we're talking about AR's here. For the sake of argument we're going to pretend like you want a 16 inch AR for Defensive, Target Shooting, and Hunting purposes. Second, we're going to assume you have not met "The Beast" or "The Elephant" yet. These are the ground rules because they apply to the greatest majority of shooters. We will also assume that you are not wealthy and are of average means.

1. Free Float Tubes do not do you any good, but they do make your rifle heavier, often unbalanced, and force you to wear gloves because they get really hot in just the plain old sunshine. They call them "Cheese Graders" for a reason and even the new ones have that issue depending upon how you grip or pickup your rifle. You are not a good enough shot and do not have enough premium ammo on tap to justify them. You shoot Tula and Wolf and Surplus Military rounds MOST of the time. (Nothing wrong with those rounds. Nobody and nothing is going to stand in front of them, ever!) Also, the improvement in accuracy is mostly a myth. It might make some difference in some scenarios for some kinds of shooting with some kinds of ammo, but by and large you're not gaining a thing by having one except potential problems that you will then have to remedy down the road. A lot of your sniper shots are in reality propaganda. The practice of having one guy take a shot with a heavy caliber rifle while a guy real close to the target takes a shot simultaneously is well known to anyone who's ever been in military combat arms. Most of us ain't Snipers and never will be. Save your money and burns on your hands.

Going "free float" improves your accuracy immensely. The very fact that you call it a myth, tells me you're talking out your ass, or regurgitating crap you read online. Ask anyone who has half a clue about barrel harmonics and long range shooting. Furthermore, the rifle's weight is made heavier mostly by the heavier contour barrel, not the rail. Rails we're talking <1lb, while barrel contours >1lb. You're however trying to lump the 2 together in order to justify it. I'd go into details on how having fewer contact points on the barrel, and more rigidity increase consistency and reduce POI shift, but I have this sneaking suspicion you've never owned something of quality, nor made shots beyond 100yds at your local range, because you're that guy who wants to be cheap and talk about everyone elses "Gucci" rifle that yours can do just as well, but you'll never enter any comp to prove it. Better yet, if you did actually compete, then you'd probably blame it on the equipment, rather than your own lack of knowledge or skill.

2. Use a full auto weight carrier and an H2 buffer in your Carbine. It's the easiest way to time your rifle. Using lightened carriers just makes you have to make up the timing with heavier buffers and an H2 is enough mass as-is. Some guys go light carriers and light buffers. The rifle is badly mis-timed this way. It's way too fast and you will have stove-pipes and failures to extract.

And again, you're way off. Every rifle is dependent on barrel length, the BCG weight, gas system length, and gas port size. There is no one-size fits all. And it's called over-gassing, but you can also have the same problems if you're under-gassed.

3. Stop using special coatings on your carriers and start using more lube. People are running AR's too dry and trying to make up for it by special coatings. It's inefficient, overly expensive, doesn't work as well, and is very shiny, which is something you do not want on a weapon you might have to use in a defensive capacity.

Shiny? Lmao... Because in a defense capacity the enemy is gonna see the glare of your BCG (which is on the side of the rifle not facing them) from a special coating, but oil has no glare? And how would you know they don't work unless you've actually fired one? Let me guess, you read it online? Most of the companies who do enhanced coatings still endorse lubing the BCG, so if someone isn't then they're an idiot, and you can't fix stupid by simply saying throw more lube on it. I'll bet you're that guy that dips his bolt in oil, and you get it all over the bolt face. And now you're asking why that would matter? Lol...

4. Stop using heavy barrels unless you are just a paper puncher. Heavy is bad for a defensive weapon. VERY VERY BAD. You're not going to have the high dollar ammo on an average budget, and if you had to use that weapon in anger the FEAR you're going to feel is going to shut down your higher level thinking and your accuracy is going to go to sh*t anyway. No matter how much you train, there is no substitute for not being tired. Being lucky is also very important. :)

High dollar ammo? Lol... You keep going there, so let me burst your bubble. I've made consistent, ie repeatable shots, out to 890-905yds with 62gr green tip and 77SMK. Guys who are going downrange want them lighter because they're throwing on APTIALs, optics, lights, NV, and numerous other shit that you'll never have because it's "gucci". If an extra 1-2lbs is hindering your defense capabilities, then you should try curling something heavier than a keyboard. You obviously don't understand the reasoning behind heavier barrels, and you keep referring to paper punchers, so again I'm thinking your pool of experience in information are from your local range and online.

5. Do not put one thing on your rifle other than MAYBE a light and if you do mount it ON THE BOTTOM of the barrel. That is the optimal location for casting the shadow in the most beneficial direction when you're sweeping an area. (Additionally, never sweep and clear a building anyway. Burn it down or blow it up. If it's a home defense situation that I can see, but that's about it)

Wow... Lol... Gee, I hope no one else was in there other than the bad guys. I'd love to be the insurance agent on that call. "Yeah, I knew they were in there, so I just blew that shit up." As for your shadow theory... lol...

6. A 4 coil extractor spring, black stand-off, o-ring or delta-ring under the extractor, and reliable non-crush anti-tilt magazines are the only innovations on the AR platform that are truly worth their salt during the last 10 years of hyper-marketing AR parts. Make sure that is apart of all your AR's.

^^^ That is what people type when they attempt to impress and convey some l technical expertise when they have none. Nobody refers to "4 coil extractor springs" or "non-crush anti-tilt", especially experts. It's called over-clarification. And if you think that's the only thing innovative, then maybe you should try spending more time actually reading, and less time calling everything "gucci" and brushing it off.

In Conclusion: You're making your rifles way too complicated and heavy and paying for things you do not need. I know it's a hobby to most and that's fine and dandy, but you wanted to know what I thought so I obliged. Thank you for reading. I shall now brace for impact. :)

Lastly, you were asked to clarify your experience, since guys like UW who actually use firearms daily in their job can already see you're talking out your ass. Yet, in that long winded ridiculous dialogue where you attempt to tell everyone what they're doing wrong, you NEVER ONCE provided ANY evidence or credentials to validate those statements. Feel free to try again, but put on your big boy pants this time.

Add: Edited for my piss poor grammar, since my right eye was looking at my left eye while reading what you said, saying "WTF".

[Ordnance]

@Pyzik: You're realistic in my book, for whatever that's worth!

<2 cents at a the local range where you've been dulling out this crappy advice

[jonpac07]

I have to tell most of you that you're doing it wrong, in more ways than just the FF rails. Are you sure you want me to?

an opinion is one thing but this^.......really? Cockiness and ignorance terrible things to mix

[Ordnance]

Let me guess, you have one $500 AR and it's bad ass.

You're like a Gucci warehouse, so your opinion is invalid. [crazy]

[Aragorn]

Disagreements on all counts, stated below in color.


OK, ok. You if you force me to. I am but a mere servant. :)

READ THIS FIRST: First of all, it depends upon what you want to do with the rifle, and we're talking about AR's here. For the sake of argument we're going to pretend like you want a 16 inch AR for Defensive, Target Shooting, and Hunting purposes. Second, we're going to assume you have not met "The Beast" or "The Elephant" yet. These are the ground rules because they apply to the greatest majority of shooters. We will also assume that you are not wealthy and are of average means.

1. Free Float Tubes do not do you any good, but they do make your rifle heavier, often unbalanced, and force you to wear gloves because they get really hot in just the plain old sunshine. They call them "Cheese Graders" for a reason and even the new ones have that issue depending upon how you grip or pickup your rifle. You are not a good enough shot and do not have enough premium ammo on tap to justify them. You shoot Tula and Wolf and Surplus Military rounds MOST of the time. (Nothing wrong with those rounds. Nobody and nothing is going to stand in front of them, ever!) Also, the improvement in accuracy is mostly a myth. It might make some difference in some scenarios for some kinds of shooting with some kinds of ammo, but by and large you're not gaining a thing by having one except potential problems that you will then have to remedy down the road. A lot of your sniper shots are in reality propaganda. The practice of having one guy take a shot with a heavy caliber rifle while a guy real close to the target takes a shot simultaneously is well known to anyone who's ever been in military combat arms. Most of us ain't Snipers and never will be. Save your money and burns on your hands.

Yeah, pretty much none of that. Most FF forends are now as light or lighter than most non-FF options. I assure you non of my FF forends have ever negatively impacted weight and balance of my guns, with the possible exception of an early generation DD "Lite Rail", but my Centurion, my Noveske, and CERTAINLY my 15" BCM KMR have been lighter. There's also nothing "cheese grater" about them, unless you're talking about pic rails. As for heat, put panels on. As for accuracy, it can and DOES make a difference, especially using a light barrel, when tightly slung up. Sling up tight on a non floated pencil barrel and you WILL have an altered POI, irrelevant of ammo type. Same story when loading a bipod.

2. Use a full auto weight carrier and an H2 buffer in your Carbine. It's the easiest way to time your rifle. Using lightened carriers just makes you have to make up the timing with heavier buffers and an H2 is enough mass as-is. Some guys go light carriers and light buffers. The rifle is badly mis-timed this way. It's way too fast and you will have stove-pipes and failures to extract.

Using a lightened BCG with a heavier buffer is retarded and has zero net gain. I DO have a rifle using a lightweight BCG, with a standard carbine buffer and spring. Rifle gas, adjustable gas block. Granted I don't have many rounds on that particular rifle, but it feeds perfectly and has had zero reliability issues despite my expectations that it might. It's also super soft shooting. Other members here also run light weight BCGs without issue.

3. Stop using special coatings on your carriers and start using more lube. People are running AR's too dry and trying to make up for it by special coatings. It's inefficient, overly expensive, doesn't work as well, and is very shiny, which is something you do not want on a weapon you might have to use in a defensive capacity.

Dude, really? That shiny tiny bit behind that dust cover is going to give away your position? What are you even trying to insinuate? Heaven forbid you're using any color anywhere else on you're gun that isn't black. I've ran phosphate, NiB, Melonite, and Ionbond BCGs. The NiB, Melonite, and Ionbond all clean up easier, AND I've never seen corrosion on them. I HAVE seen rust on a phosphate bolt that was being used in rainy conditions, and it was heavily lubed prior.

4. Stop using heavy barrels unless you are just a paper puncher. Heavy is bad for a defensive weapon. VERY VERY BAD. You're not going to have the high dollar ammo on an average budget, and if you had to use that weapon in anger the FEAR you're going to feel is going to shut down your higher level thinking and your accuracy is going to go to sh*t anyway. No matter how much you train, there is no substitute for not being tired. Being lucky is also very important. :)

Nowhere in the immediate above did you state a single reason why a lighter barrel would be more beneficial. It's documented lots of places that pencil profile barrels are prone to shift POI when they get hot. I've seen it happen on my BCM. Even medium or taper profiles greatly diminish this. Do they transition faster? They feel like it, but on a course against a timer there are WAY too many variables to attribute any gain or loss in time directly to barrel profile. All that said, taper profiles in the range of 25oz seem to be where I'm gravitating towards.

5. Do not put one thing on your rifle other than MAYBE a light and if you do mount it ON THE BOTTOM of the barrel. That is the optimal location for casting the shadow in the most beneficial direction when you're sweeping an area. (Additionally, never sweep and clear a building anyway. Burn it down or blow it up. If it's a home defense situation that I can see, but that's about it)

Nothing? Not even optics? A sling maybe? Are all your opinions on that light placement based on your years of kicking in doors for the DEA? How is shadow UP beneficial, instead of downwards where the rifle is already already blocking line of sight, superior?

6. A 4 coil extractor spring, black stand-off, o-ring or delta-ring under the extractor, and reliable non-crush anti-tilt magazines are the only innovations on the AR platform that are truly worth their salt during the last 10 years of hyper-marketing AR parts. Make sure that is apart of all your AR's.

The ONLY ones? Maybe you should call up Knight's and tell them that.

In Conclusion: You're making your rifles way too complicated and heavy and paying for things you do not need. I know it's a hobby to most and that's fine and dandy, but you wanted to know what I thought so I obliged. Thank you for reading. I shall now brace for impact. :)

In conclusion, you're polluting a premier technical forum with with DPMS salesman crap. And superfluous threads that belong at a third rate comedy club.

[Ordnance]

Disagreements on all counts, stated below in color.



In conclusion, you're polluting a premier technical forum with with DPMS salesman crap. And superfluous threads that belong at a third rate comedy club.

You're late... :P

[Aragorn]

You're late... :P

Yeah, took me a bit to get through them all. Lot's of post came in while I was writing that. :P

[DUX]

Hey UWone77! ^ SEE! LMAO!

Fella's, I'm glad you are happy with your rifles. I don't think they're anything I'd touch with a 10 foot pole, but that my opinion, and UWone77 insisted I give it! So, here we are.

[Ordnance]

Hey UWone77! ^ SEE! LMAO!

You still aren't answering the question. Exactly where are you getting your information, since you want to tell us all how we're doing it wrong? Let me quess... Your ops are so black that your rifle pales in comparison.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Let me quess... Your ops are so black that your rifle pales in comparison.

You owe me a beer. I just spit mine out after that comment....

[UWone77]

I don't disagree with your entire post. In fact, some of it has some merit. However, it just reminds me of someone who's spent time talking and reading about it, but not actually putting it into action. It's easy to say yeah that won't work, but the way you spelled some things out, I can tell you have no real world experience with those items.

Let's address the handguards. Free Float handguards do in fact increase accuracy. I'm not sure what you consider accurate as on your other post, you seem to be fine with 24 MOA at 50 yards. There are a lot of guys, even if they shoot at dirt and paper like a lot of us, trying to squeeze every last millimeter of accuracy out of the gun. Maybe you just aren't familiar with newer, lighter handguards, but there are several out there that are very light weight. The BCM KMR comes to mind. The cheesegrater reference is funny, but really very out of date. $5 ladder covers will alleviate that. Newer KeyMod and MLOK handguards are very comfortable on your hands and do not grate them. The only time I shoot with gloves is when I shoot either Full Auto or suppressed or both. Semi Auto Shooting with a FF handguard... I've never had an issue getting too hot.

Can most of us really just get away with MOE handguards? Absolutely, but there is a use for FF. Maybe you just like and prefer a FSB because you don't run optics? In that case, a FSB is the most solid gas block there is and I can't fault anyone for preferring FSB uppers. I still own half a dozen of them.

I don't disagree on using F/A Bolt Carrier Groups, that's the only kind I run. H2 Buffers are unnecessary for 14.5, 16" Midlength gas systems. Simply trying to make that combo a one size fits all is not doing anyone any good. A heavier buffer slows down the carrier for suppressed shooting, overgassed barrels, ect. Calling it "timing" tells me you don't actually know what you're talking about.

Lube, and coatings, I can agree with that. Use more lube, and phosphate carriers is fine. The reason coatings have become popular, is because they are in fact easier to clean, and have come down in price. Many times they are the same price. Nothing wrong with using NiB, Melonite, ect carriers.

Heavy Barrels? I don't think you know what a heavy barrel is, until I told you in another thread they are generally .936 at the Gas Block. Most barrels are government profile barrels that are .750 at the gas block, those are considered medium contour barrels.

Advocating a white light placement under the barrel at 6 oclock tells me you've never run a low light class or worked at night. That has the MOST shadowing. 12 oclock is the optimal position, off set at 1 and 11 oclock being a close second.

I think there have been plenty of innovations in the AR market, and it keeps getting better. Do we need every whiz bang piece of gear? Absolutely not, but your post has a lot of misinformation.

[Ordnance]

You owe me a beer. I just spit mine out after that comment....

[BD]

[DUX]

Uwone77, I'm going to address you right now and ignore the dogpile. I'll come back later and give you a more detailed description. I did want to go back answer the edit to one of your posts that I missed. "Where did I learn this" in essence. It started with my father, who was a Vietnam LRRP. That began about 11 years old. Then a roving band of friends many of whom were and a couple who still are involved in Special Operations. They share my viewpoints because I learned those viewpoints from them and then put them into practice on the range. I'm not a "Black Op." I just learned from a couple of them. :)

[Joelski]

I agree with some parts.

I am by no stretch of the imagination an "expert" or an "operator" (Lord I'm getting sick of hearing that word outside of the correct context). I try to read and listen and soak up everything I can once I commit to learning about it. I understand it's poor form to speak from anything less than experience, but the difference I feel here as opposed to elsewhere is that I can occasionally say something pretty dumb and not be burned at the stake. I expect that the reason is first that I don't paint myself as an "operator", and that I tend to preface questions by acknowledging that I am asking for input, not expecting a bunch of "yep".

When fear hits us, those who haven't trained responses into brain stem reflexive responses, will shit their pants and scream like girls, all the while spraying bullets in a general vicinity of the bad guy. The guy with training can channel that energy and utilize it to fight back in an organized fashion. This works in a variety of applications; war, civil unrest, structure fires, critically wounded children. It's called critical stress and how you respond to it determines your survival. Whether you walk off the battlefield, out of the hood, egress a fully involved structure fire, or do everthing right on the way to saving a dying kid's life. It's all the same, and anybody who would have you believe one is more stressful is chock full o'bullshit. It's about being repsonsible. For your life, for your partner's life, for a family of 6, or a child just starting out in the world. They (you) are relying on you to produce a positive result. At the end of the day, everybody at the table is awesome. That's why it's called a brotherhood.

Oh, and there are guys here with 4 or 5 of each different configuration rifle there is. I envy those guys, but if they played guitar, they'd drool over my stuff. FFor me, shooting is facet. I'm a solid plinker. I'd go bonkers shooting at targets , but that's other guys joy, and I know if I ever want to get good at longer shots, I need to settle down and do some target shooting. To each his own!

[Ordnance]

Fella's, I'm glad you are happy with your rifles. I don't think they're anything I'd touch with a 10 foot pole, but that my opinion, and UWone77 insisted I give it! So, here we are.

Since you added that last bit...

You don't get off that easy sweetheart. You show up talking like a boss, and you think that means you can walk off back to the range unmarred with some kind if internet prowess. You tell us we're all doing it wrong, that most of are rifles are inept for defense, and that you have the answers, but you justify and prove nothing. So again, since you might be the 70yo denizen that sits at the range telling everyone how you once shot a commie at 2K yds with your M1A... Exactly what is your information based on, ie experience?

[UWone77]

Uwone77, I'm going to address you right now and ignore the dogpile. I'll come back later and give you a more detailed description. I did want to go back answer the edit to one of your posts that I missed. "Where did I learn this" in essence. It started with my father, who was a Vietnam LRRP. That began about 11 years old. Then a roving band of friends many of whom were and a couple who still are involved in Special Operations. They share my viewpoints because I learned those viewpoints from them and then put them into practice on the range. I'm not a "Black Op." I just learned from a couple of them. :)

One thing you have to understand is, just because someone is MIL/LEO/Ninja/Samurai Warrior doesn't mean he knows jack about weapons. Most guys are trigger pullers, they don't know why or how it works, they just know how to eliminate targets. I know this because I work around guys who know nothing about the weapons platform they carry, but just know how to load and make ready.

I'm not saying your father didn't teach you what you needed to know, all I'm saying is, it's easy to dismiss something if you've never used or tried it. There's a reason why the AR has evolved out of triangular handguards, XM-177's, CAR-15's, ect.

[Ordnance]

Uwone77, I'm going to address you right now and ignore the dogpile. I'll come back later and give you a more detailed description. I did want to go back answer the edit to one of your posts that I missed. "Where did I learn this" in essence. It started with my father, who was a Vietnam LRRP. That began about 11 years old. Then a roving band of friends many of whom were and a couple who still are involved in Special Operations. They share my viewpoints because I learned those viewpoints from them and then put them into practice on the range. I'm not a "Black Op." I just learned from a couple of them. :)

Wow... real SF? Like a Delta Group Ranger Seal Scout? Maybe I just slept at a Holiday Inn, but out of my limited experience around such high speed guys, I've never seen ANY of them run their systems, nor talk about running their systems, the way you do. And correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the M4 SOCOM run a free float Daniel Defense rail? Wait, I must be confused...

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Dux- You sound more like a guy that's spent more time hanging around arfcom more than "working your gear" or hanging with spec ops.


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[DUX]

Fella's, I'm sorry you're so enraged at my confidence in what I know. I understand that I have a different opinion from many of you. You're just going to have to deal with it. I know what I know because I was taught it by people I trust. Berating me for not doing things your way or feeling confident in that says more about your current state than it does mine. I told the Admin 3 times that I didn't think this was a good idea for me to voice my viewpoints. He really wanted me to, and I did. Don't be uncivil please. It demonstrates a weakness in your confidence.

[UWone77]

Fella's, I'm sorry you're so enraged at my confidence in what I know. I understand that I have a different opinion from many of you. You're just going to have to deal with it. I know what I know because I was taught it by people I trust. Berating me for not doing things your way or feeling confident in that says more about your current state than it does mine. I told the Admin 3 times that I didn't think this was a good idea for me to voice my viewpoints. He really wanted me to, and I did. Don't be uncivil please. It demonstrates a weakness in your confidence.

No one is enraged. You just don't know what you don't know, it's actually kind of sad.

[gatordev]

This reminds me when I start discussing (really, it's just me listening) tactics with guys with current experience at my day job. No, this has nothing to do with employing rifles...

I've got multiple operational deployments and training time back home utilizing specific tactics with a specific set of weapon systems. I had a fair amount of experience and I'd argue I was pretty good at what I trained for and/or performed operationally. Now, when I talk and hear things from the younger guys about their current tactics, portions of what I know and have experiences with are clearly irrelevant. That doesn't mean it didn't have value in the past. It's not because I can't still do cool things, it's because the systems have changed, are more modern, and I just don't have the operational experience with them.

I can still excel at the fundamentals, but the newer generation just has more experiences with the latest and greatest, and the latest and greatest is significantly better than what I grew up with.

Getting back to rifles, to say that VN era weapons are all that's needed is just disingenuous to how current weapons are employed. That doesn't mean the past experiences of your warrior friends isn't valuable and appreciated, but it can't be counted as the end-all thing.

[DUX]

No one is enraged. You just don't know what you don't know, it's actually kind of sad.

That could be. It could also be the other way around. They're opinions on how to go about things.

[DUX]

@gatordev: How would you rate say the NVA vs. Quds vs. Militiamen?

[gatordev]

They're opinions on how to go about things.

For a small and very specific mission set. But many here have a broader use for their guns.


@gatordev: How would you rate say the NVA vs. Quds vs. Militiamen?

I don't even know what you're asking.

[Josh S.]

I'm staying out of it, all I know is my electricity bill is going to be pretty low this month. No need to turn on the TV as long as this thread is going on... [:D]

[DUX]

I'm staying out of it, all I know is my electricity bill is going to be pretty low this month. No need to turn on the TV as long as this thread is going on... [:D]

LOL! I say again, I warned the Admin, 3 times, that it shouldn't be discussed. :)

[Dstrbdmedic167]

LOL! I say again, I warned the Admin, 3 times, that it shouldn't be discussed. :)

You act Like you've schooled us and taught us all something. You had some valid points as UW said but for the most part you're just blowing smoke...

[DUX]

You act Like you've schooled us and taught us all something. You had some valid points as UW said but for the most part you're just blowing smoke...

No, I don't feel that way at all. These are my opinions. I was asked to give them. Take my statements at face value. The truth is, you guys do it your way. I do it mine. You have a lot of people here that feel like my way is wrong. I have a lot of people who feel your way is wrong. What's wrong with that?

[Dstrbdmedic167]

No, I don't feel that way at all. These are my opinions. I was asked to give them. Take my statements at face value. The truth is, you guys do it your way. I do it mine. You have a lot of people here that feel like my way is wrong. I have a lot of people who feel your way is wrong. What's wrong with that?

That you pretty much came to us and said our way was wrong. You came to us not the other way around....

I have no hard feelings or am I upset as you may think but you don't play ball with Micheal Jordan and tell him how to play or that your way is better..

[Ordnance]

You can't support any of your opinions with actual experience or technical knowledge, yet you stay stupid shit like "confidence in what I know". You should say "With what my buddies told me". When you show up and tell a group of guys with REAL extensive experience on equipment that we're doing it wrong, then you better expect to have to validate your opinion. Welcome to the real world, where you don't get to regurgitate shit you hear and expect everyone to just agree with you.

[DUX]

That you pretty much came to us and said our way was wrong. You came to us not the other way around....

I have no hard feelings or am I upset as you may think but you don't play ball with Micheal Jordan and tell him how to play or that your way is better..

Understood. Maybe it would be helpful for you to know that I don't view you guys as "Micheal Jordan." I'm not trying to hurt your feelings. I'm trying to explain that I don't view this website as a primary source of information. I have no hard feeling either. Again, I was asked my opinion. I gave it. I do think some of you guys do it wrong. It seems that makes some people upset. I don't care if my opinion makes them upset. That's their emotional state to deal with.

[Pyzik]

Understood. Maybe it would be helpful for you to know that I don't view you guys as "Micheal Jordan." I'm not trying to hurt your feelings. I'm trying to explain that I don't view this website as a primary source of information. I have no hard feeling either. Again, I was asked my opinion. I gave it. I do think some of you guys do it wrong. It seems that makes some people upset. I don't care if my opinion makes them upset. That's their emotional state to deal with.
Fairly certain James meant Micheal Jackson and Dancing. I've heard he has moves.

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[DUX]

Fairly certain James meant Micheal Jackson and Dancing. I've heard he has moves.

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Micheal Jackson is dead. He lost the game. LOL!

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Understood. Maybe it would be helpful for you to know that I don't view you guys as "Micheal Jordan." I'm not trying to hurt your feelings. I'm trying to explain that I don't view this website as a primary source of information. I have no hard feeling either. Again, I was asked my opinion. I gave it. I do think some of you guys do it wrong. It seems that makes some people upset. I don't care if my opinion makes them upset. That's their emotional state to deal with.

Well of course not but you knew what meant... In the end you can tell any of us all you want. It without the proper credentials to back it your points are not valid. Whether you think we're doing it wrong or not. Bottom line.. Bye Felicia..

Side Question- In your little world is the popcorn and soda refills free? Bc I'm due for a refill...

[UWone77]

LOL Brutal James... you can't even catch a break with a Michael Jordan reference.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Fairly certain James meant Micheal Jackson and Dancing. I've heard he has moves.

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Man you know I have the Moves like Jagger...

[Dstrbdmedic167]

LOL Brutal James... you can't even catch a break with a Michael Jordan reference.

Never have caught a break why start now?

[DUX]

Well of course not but you knew what meant... In the end you can tell any of us all you want. It without the proper credentials to back it your points are not valid. Whether you think we're doing it wrong or not. Bottom line.. Bye Felicia..

Side Question- In your little world is the popcorn and soda refills free? Bc I'm due for a refill...

I'll discuss this with you anytime you like. So long as you check your ego and dispense with outright insults. If you need to go away from me that is your option. I'll be here if and when you have any questions.

[schambers]

I can still excel at the fundamentals, but the newer generation just has more experiences with the latest and greatest, and the latest and greatest is significantly better than what I grew up with.

Gator's comment motivated me to comment and read the rest of this thread.

Gator: What your saying is true but don't sell yourself short! Fundamentals are essential if you want to employ the latest and greatest tactics and gadgets with efficiency and lethality. Most tactics can be taught in a relatively short amount of time. Fundamentals need to constantly be reinforced and applied.

My thoughts on the comments made earlier in the thread:

You will probably start to see lubricious coatings on standard military weapons within the next 10-15 years. The time savings they provide for in-field maintenance allows soldiers to progress through their priorities of work quickly and effectively.

To echo some comments before: Most people who mount a light on an AR at the 6 o'clock positions quickly change their configuration after using their weapon in low or no light situations. I personally prefer a 1 or 2 o'clock position with 12 o'clock reserved for lasers. I don't feel like I need to comment on the other stuff.

For the OP: I only own 3 AR's and that's probably the max I will have for a while. I have a hard time justifying getting another but I really like the BAD forged lowers. Great build quality, strength and price. If someone twisted my arm and made be build another rifle, if would probably start with that lower.

[DUX]

Kicking out for the night fella's. I'll come back tomorrow and address some of the more reasonable questions about me and why I believe in the doctrine that I do. I won't be responding to anyone who insults or uses my requested opinion as an opportunity to have a "bro-down." And for the record. Most of you are doing it wrong. In my opinion of course. ;)

I'd like to restate that for the OP's benefit I advise AERO. They're a great company and I trust their products. For whatever that's worth. Cheers all!

[EO3]

Came home from a long day of work, ate some dinner, and then sat down to relax. I thought "Eh, I'll get on WEVO. Wonder what they've been up to today." BOY WAS I IN FOR A TREAT![:D]

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Sorry it took me a few. I guess I wasn't getting any refills so...

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[Ordnance]

I'll discuss this with you anytime you like. So long as you check your ego and dispense with outright insults. If you need to go away from me that is your option. I'll be here if and when you have any questions.

We check our ego? Lol...


I like AERO precision. 90 bucks. But then again I take old Bushmasters and turn them into solid pea-shooters. I get a sick sense of satisfaction building a 700-800 dollar AR that does all the things the Gucci ones do. :)

I have to tell most of you that you're doing it wrong, in more ways than just the FF rails.

You don't want me to tell you what I know.

Just two right now but I've had many. "Beware the man with just one rifle. He probably knows how to use it." ;)

Fella's, I'm sorry you're so enraged at my confidence in what I know.

Maybe you should take a hard look at the way you talk to others. Furthermore, you talk about things you've never employed yourself, and then want to correct people on how they actually do employ something... Read that again... How they ACTUALLY DO EMPLOY SOMETHING? Then you try to strut back into the forum like you're above reproach and ready to answer questions if we're ready to believe whatever you say? Lol... And quantifying online that you know something because you run with SF, has about as much clout as I sat next to Carlos Hathcock once, so I know everything about sniping people.

[Ordnance]

Kicking out for the night fella's. I'll come back tomorrow and address some of the more reasonable questions about me and why I believe in the doctrine that I do. I won't be responding to anyone who insults or uses my requested opinion as an opportunity to have a "bro-down." And for the record. Most of you are doing it wrong. In my opinion of course. ;)

I'd like to restate that for the OP's benefit I advise AERO. They're a great company and I trust their products. For whatever that's worth. Cheers all!

Holy shit... look up the word hypocrite. You talk about ego and again you come back with talking like a boss. The very way you speak to those who do have both technical and empirical knowledge is insulting, since you have none that isn't based upon what your buddies or your dad taught you. Go back to whatever gun counter or range you hangout out and spread the bullshit there instead where it will likely be better received.

[SINNER]

You read his comments in that Blackout thread. Troll or imbecile.

[Ordnance]

You read his comments in that Blackout thread. Troll or imbecile.

I haven't. I've been swamped, and I only showed up here because someone sent me a message that this guy was spewing some nonsense.

[Tyrannosaur]

Is this what it's like in a liberals mind... I feel like this is why they're so wonky... that being said I'm sitting back and watching this until it's closed.....

[Stone]

I think some folks seem to have forgotten we are in this big shit sandwich together. Patriots don't piss down each others necks and tell them its raining. Their is a conglomerate of different types of riflemen on this forum. Some guys here like to build rifles to shoot paper and to occasionally go to the range. Some guys here build harder use rifles to run carbine courses several times a year and keep their skills as sharp as their budgets will allow. Some guys here buy and build their rifles for duty and country, train as much as they can and stay current skills and tactics. Some guys here are freaking fanatics only building and buying rifles you could toss out of a helicopter, spending most of their time training and shooting 10K plus rounds a year. A true warrior doesn't brag about what he knows because he knows what he doesn't know and that's what he seeks out. He learns how to make his enemies his friend. But lets not forget one thing, we are all Americans, we need to stand together not pick each other apart. Dux, lets face it, you came in here a little hot and stepped on a few dicks. Its been duly noted that you have your opinion, we all do but the key to maturity is not what you do say but its what you don't say. You said people are doing it wrong, wrong is relevant only if right isn't working and that's for the end user to discover. There is no one size fits all when it comes to building rifles, hell, that's the beauty of the AR platform. It can be configured to how the owner wants it. Live and let live...

[DUX]

I think some folks seem to have forgotten we are in this big shit sandwich together. Patriots don't piss down each others necks and tell them its raining. Their is a conglomerate of different types of riflemen on this forum. Some guys here like to build rifles to shoot paper and to occasionally go to the range. Some guys here build harder use rifles to run carbine courses several times a year and keep their skills as sharp as their budgets will allow. Some guys here buy and build their rifles for duty and country, train as much as they can and stay current skills and tactics. Some guys here are freaking fanatics only building and buying rifles you could toss out of a helicopter, spending most of their time training and shooting 10K plus rounds a year. A true warrior doesn't brag about what he knows because he knows what he doesn't know and that's what he seeks out. He learns how to make his enemies his friend. But lets not forget one thing, we are all Americans, we need to stand together not pick each other apart. Dux, lets face it, you came in here a little hot and stepped on a few dicks. Its been duly noted that you have your opinion, we all do but the key to maturity is not what you do say but its what you don't say. You said people are doing it wrong, wrong is relevant only if right isn't working and that's for the end user to discover. There is no one size fits all when it comes to building rifles, hell, that's the beauty of the AR platform. It can be configured to how the owner wants it. Live and let live...

I was about to step off into bed and decided to check. This is a comment I can really get behind. I agree with it 100's! Yeah, I knew it was a hot comment. That is why I advised the admin 3 times that it wouldn't be the best of ideas. I knew where it was going to go, but I wanted to feel the fiber of this places faberic. I figure if I tell a man it's not a good idea 3 times but he wants to play Jr. High games then that's a green light and my bases are covered. You are too right Stone. We're all in this together and each man has his background and experiences to draw upon. I like your style. You're level headed and a leader IMO.

[Stone]

I understand brother but this is UW's sand box along with the other admins and a host of manufacturers and dealers/business owners. They keep the door open as a privilege not a right. So in a sense they are the CO's and we are the swinging dicks, lets show them respect as we would expect from others. If the tables were turned I know for a fact they would do the same, and in fact they do.

[Eric]

This derailed quickly and is now done. Way to go...

[UWone77]

I was about to step off into bed and decided to check. This is a comment I can really get behind. I agree with it 100's! Yeah, I knew it was a hot comment. That is why I advised the admin 3 times that it wouldn't be the best of ideas. I knew where it was going to go, but I wanted to feel the fiber of this places faberic. I figure if I tell a man it's not a good idea 3 times but he wants to play Jr. High games then that's a green light and my bases are covered. You are too right Stone. We're all in this together and each man has his background and experiences to draw upon. I like your style. You're level headed and a leader IMO.

LOL... Jr High Games.

It was fun while you were here. Enjoy your vacation.

[Pyzik]

That went longer than I expected.

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[UWone77]

That went longer than I expected.

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Yup. If he wanted to stay on his high horse and demand civility... you can't keep making snide comments.

[SINNER]

IQ average around here just doubled with that move.

[Jerry R]

Man, I signed off WAY too early last night ...

[Dstrbdmedic167]

I was having more fun than I probably should have....


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[Jerry R]

I would not have been able to contribute, but it was a heckuva read !

[EO3]

You big, mean admins with your Gucci rifles... LOL. I understand that he was essentially trying to say a lot of the parts and accessories people get now aren't 100% necessary. Which is somewhat true. But, there are definitely people on here in which some of the things he mentioned as pointless are certainly necessary. Also... this is America. Since when has America been all about what you need? We don't NEED a car with a V8. We don't NEED a two-story house, or whatever it may be. We could live and function without them. Point is, he was an ass in the way he presented himself and his opinions, and he did so in a very un-American, accusatory way.

Like someone else (I think it was Josh S.) had said to him a day or two ago, he seemed to kind of just be spewing out madness all over the place and not making any sense. It was good cheap entertainment, but I'm glad to see he was banned. Overall, I'm pretty new to WEVO, but for the couple months I've been on here as a member, 99% of what I've seen on here has been very helpful. Lots of great information, and lots of good, American, gun-lovin', knowledgeable people.

[Battle Cock]

Every so often a member shows up that reshapes the whole tone of an environment. For better or worse. Dux brought us down as a whole. Unfortunately his personality completely overshadowed his ability to coexist here, and lost him every inch of ground that he could have gained with the areas in which he had ideas worth considering. One thing I've always enjoyed about this forum is the professionalism; and I'm happy to be returning to business as usual, all popcorn munching aside.

[Aragorn]

Well that's special. What is he? About the third person ever banned from WEVO?

Not that I lament the loss. Generally I just figure "As long as we all have our rifles pointing the same direction End of world come..." But that guy was obnoxious long before this thread and was NOT a good fit on a modern technical forum.

[rob_s]

OK, ok. You if you force me to. I am but a mere servant. :)

READ THIS FIRST: First of all, it depends upon what you want to do with the rifle, and we're talking about AR's here. For the sake of argument we're going to pretend like you want a 16 inch AR for Defensive, Target Shooting, and Hunting purposes. Second, we're going to assume you have not met "The Beast" or "The Elephant" yet. These are the ground rules because they apply to the greatest majority of shooters. We will also assume that you are not wealthy and are of average means.

1. Free Float Tubes do not do you any good, but they do make your rifle heavier, often unbalanced, and force you to wear gloves because they get really hot in just the plain old sunshine. They call them "Cheese Graders" for a reason and even the new ones have that issue depending upon how you grip or pickup your rifle. You are not a good enough shot and do not have enough premium ammo on tap to justify them. You shoot Tula and Wolf and Surplus Military rounds MOST of the time. (Nothing wrong with those rounds. Nobody and nothing is going to stand in front of them, ever!) Also, the improvement in accuracy is mostly a myth. It might make some difference in some scenarios for some kinds of shooting with some kinds of ammo, but by and large you're not gaining a thing by having one except potential problems that you will then have to remedy down the road. A lot of your sniper shots are in reality propaganda. The practice of having one guy take a shot with a heavy caliber rifle while a guy real close to the target takes a shot simultaneously is well known to anyone who's ever been in military combat arms. Most of us ain't Snipers and never will be. Save your money and burns on your hands.

2. Use a full auto weight carrier and an H2 buffer in your Carbine. It's the easiest way to time your rifle. Using lightened carriers just makes you have to make up the timing with heavier buffers and an H2 is enough mass as-is. Some guys go light carriers and light buffers. The rifle is badly mis-timed this way. It's way too fast and you will have stove-pipes and failures to extract.

3. Stop using special coatings on your carriers and start using more lube. People are running AR's too dry and trying to make up for it by special coatings. It's inefficient, overly expensive, doesn't work as well, and is very shiny, which is something you do not want on a weapon you might have to use in a defensive capacity.

4. Stop using heavy barrels unless you are just a paper puncher. Heavy is bad for a defensive weapon. VERY VERY BAD. You're not going to have the high dollar ammo on an average budget, and if you had to use that weapon in anger the FEAR you're going to feel is going to shut down your higher level thinking and your accuracy is going to go to sh*t anyway. No matter how much you train, there is no substitute for not being tired. Being lucky is also very important. :)

5. Do not put one thing on your rifle other than MAYBE a light and if you do mount it ON THE BOTTOM of the barrel. That is the optimal location for casting the shadow in the most beneficial direction when you're sweeping an area. (Additionally, never sweep and clear a building anyway. Burn it down or blow it up. If it's a home defense situation that I can see, but that's about it)

6. A 4 coil extractor spring, black stand-off, o-ring or delta-ring under the extractor, and reliable non-crush anti-tilt magazines are the only innovations on the AR platform that are truly worth their salt during the last 10 years of hyper-marketing AR parts. Make sure that is apart of all your AR's.

In Conclusion: You're making your rifles way too complicated and heavy and paying for things you do not need. I know it's a hobby to most and that's fine and dandy, but you wanted to know what I thought so I obliged. Thank you for reading. I shall now brace for impact. :)

I just came for the drama, but other than a couple of incorrect items in #1, I pretty much agree with all of this.

My only real objection to #1 is regarding the weight, but I'm sure one could make arguments back and forth to make the non-FF seem lighter. One slight objection to #1 is that he assumes what I see a lot of people assume, is that ARs are free-floated for the same reasons as bolt guns (accuracy) and that's not exactly true. I free-float ARs because (a) they *can be* lighter free-floated and (b) the input from sling tension is less likely to pull the barrel, and therefore the rounds off target.

ETA:
Oh, and I like my lights at 12 o'clock not 6, but I suspect that Dux isn't aware that lights can be mounted there now, as much of his thinking seems based in out-dated tech.

[SINNER]

Are you speaking of #1 only or the entire comment?

[UWone77]

I even pointed out some of his post had merit. I completely disagree with him on #1, but yeah for 99% of us, non-coated carriers, and non-heavy barrels are the way to go. I personally use H buffers as H2's are unnecessary for most 14.5's and 16" guns.

[fledge]

From the moment he showed up, he quickly revealed his larger objective on WEVO was not to talk about firearms. Thanks mods.

[Josh S.]

Tip of the day: Don't join a forum called Weapon Evolution, if you disagree with the evolution of weapons.

[Pyzik]

Tip of the day: Don't join a forum called Weapon Evolution, if you disagree with the evolution of weapons.
Haha, perfect

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[Cotton68spc]

Never have caught a break why start now?

Lmao


PS if he made anyone want to get rid of their Gucci rifles , I'll send you my address

Check me out on YouTube and Facebook

[Joelski]

I even pointed out some of his post had merit. I completely disagree with him on #1, but yeah for 99% of us, non-coated carriers, and non-heavy barrels are the way to go. I personally use H buffers as H2's are unnecessary for most 14.5's and 16" guns.

Nice enough guy, just seemed set on flaming out. You hit the nail; I pretty much think he and his buddies were around for the beginning... like the 1950's beginning of the AR era. I make no bones about hole in my experience, but it's no reason to fault people for their likes or dislikes. I try not to get butthurt about stuff like my view on the scope mount subject and fun at my expense thereof. I've asked plenty of noob questions about the long range stuff and probably will never get there. When I can't see somebody, I take an absence of smilies as being an ass, rather than good, clean fun. Electronic media is all about the context.

[MoxyDave]

Doesn't seem fair to have banned him for this. Unless there is something I missed, a dissenting opinion, somewhat well-thought out, is not grounds for termination.

I agree he was starting to spam a bit about other things, but I suspect that would have died off as he lost interest ... whatever!

[UWone77]

Doesn't seem fair to have banned him for this. Unless there is something I missed, a dissenting opinion, somewhat well-thought out, is not grounds for termination.

I agree he was starting to spam a bit about other things, but I suspect that would have died off as he lost interest ... whatever!

I can assure you it wasn't just that.

You can have a dissenting opinion here, no doubt.

[alamo5000]

I have to tell most of you that you're doing it wrong, in more ways than just the FF rails. Are you sure you want me to?

Damn. I've been missing the action around here.

I try to avoid drama, but DAYUM! that was a dickish thing to say right there. Especially here of all places. Seriously? WTF?

[din]

Ok, that certainly gave me a headache.

Now, did we ever find a lower for Pyzik?

[Pyzik]

Ok, that certainly gave me a headache.

Now, did we ever find a lower for Pyzik?
I am pretty set on a CMT SSA at this point.

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[Tyrannosaur]

You don't need a flaired mag well, you don't want me to tell you why... sorry just kidding couldn't resist.

[Ordnance]

Tip of the day: Don't join a forum called Weapon Evolution, if you disagree with the evolution of weapons. [crazy]

[cjd3]

I am pretty set on a CMT SSA at this point.

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Stay on topic now, can't go haywire now, can we.
And I really like my CMT billit lower too.

[fledge]

I am pretty set on a CMT SSA at this point.

Saw on IG that they are still 3-4 weeks out for the new batch to be ready. Just FYI.

[UWone77]

Saw on IG that they are still 3-4 weeks out for the new batch to be ready. Just FYI.

I just spoke to Jeff a few days ago. He told me there's been a run on products, so he's cranking out product as fast as he can.

[n4p226r]

I'm so glad I clicked on this thread. Sitting here. 5am. Holding a 4 day old girl so the wife can sleep. Good laughs.

[Joelski]

Grats on the new bundle. Cheers for many more of those. Savor those times.

[Pyzik]

I'm so glad I clicked on this thread. Sitting here. 5am. Holding a 4 day old girl so the wife can sleep. Good laughs.
Good man. As rough as they were I do miss those days a little.

Grats on the new bundle. Cheers for many more of those. Savor those times.


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[Pyzik]

Saw on IG that they are still 3-4 weeks out for the new batch to be ready. Just FYI.
I'm not in a hurry, I've got other guns.

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[alamo5000]

I'm so glad I clicked on this thread. Sitting here. 5am. Holding a 4 day old girl so the wife can sleep. Good laughs.

Wow. Congrats man! Seriously, that's awesome.

[n4p226r]

Good man. As rough as they were I do miss those days a little.



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This is my second. I thought I missed these days too. Now I'm not so sure.

[Pyzik]

This is my second. I thought I missed these days too. Now I'm not so sure.
Bahahaha

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[Former11B]

Been busy with a move into a new place. Wow...I missed out

[KW900A]

Well I'm stuck in a hotel in nowhere Ohio for a few days for work. This dissolved the boredom for awhile. I don't have the knowledge/training/experience on ARs like many of you, but even I was scratching my head, then laughing![crazy]

[Joelski]

I'm in the same town!

Been to Nowhere, OK too. It's out toward Apache, where Garth Brooks got his fancy shirts made.

[Aragorn]

I'm in the same town!

Been to Nowhere, OK too. It's out toward Apache, where Garth Brooks got his fancy shirts made.

Kinda on the way to Ft. Cobb, or is it lake Thunderbird? Can't remember. You from OK?

[Joelski]

Toward Cobb. I lived there for a while.