V Seven Enlightened Lithium AR15 Aluminum lowers

[UWone77]

Exclusively available first at Rainier Arms (https://www.rainierarms.com/v7-enlightened-lithium-aluminum-lowers-ar15): https://www.rainierarms.com/v7-enlightened-lithium-aluminum-lowers-ar15

Be one of the first to get the V7 (http://www.vsevenweaponsystems.com/) Enlightened lowers with our Special pricing

MSRP- $359.00

Sale price-$323.10

V Seven Weapon Systems: (http://www.vsevenweaponsystems.com/)

ENLIGHTENED 2055 LITH/ALUM AR-15 LOWER RECEIVER


BILLET AR-15 LOWER RECEIVER
CONSTRUCTED FROM ADVANCED 2055 LITHIUM/ALUMINUM
TYPE III HARDCOAT ANODIZE
WEIGHS 6.4 OZ
SHIPS WITH QD ENDPLATE (7075 T6)
ADVANCED 2055 LITHIUM ALUMINUM ALLOY IS LIGHTER, STRONGER, MORE RIGID & CORROSION RESISTANT THAN STANDARD 7075 T6
MIL SPEC COMPATIBLE
MADE IN THE USA
100% LIFETIME WARRANTY
FFL Required Before Shipping.


1182
1183
1184
1185

[fledge]

Looking forward to seeing this in person. Tracking says it arrives Monday.

[bzdog]

Any idea if they are going to make uppers from this stuff?

Thanks,

-john

[SINNER]

Looks like they were on the right track then pulled off a huge fail with that trigger guard design.

[UWone77]

Any idea if they are going to make uppers from this stuff?

Thanks,

-john

Yes, I believe they have an upper in the works.

[Aragorn]

I dig the looks of this, wouldn't mind having one and a matching upper.

Because I need another receiver set and all...

Would consider swapping for my umbrella set on my current set up. Hell its being reworked anyways.

[Joelski]

Okay so the obvious question is why?

Why is this more expensive than Noveske Stihl cryptonite?

Why NOT Titanium? They make everything else in Ti.

[Aberration79]

At that price I would expect ambi controls.

[Aragorn]

Okay so the obvious question is why?

Why is this more expensive than Noveske Stihl cryptonite?

Why NOT Titanium? They make everything else in Ti.

Because Titanium is heavier, heavier than aluminum, and definitely heavier than Aluminum Lithium.

As for price, I never machine Aluminum Lithium so I'm not sure how easy or hard it is (tooling/machine time/whatever), but pretty sure it's not a cheap alloy. I read about it being used in fighter aircraft several years ago, kinda wondered when or if it'd hit the AR market.

[fledge]

I actually think the price is good for what it is.

Titanium is 3x the cost: http://www.vertexops.com/mobile/product.aspx?ProductCode=sf%2Dti%2Dlower&404;http://www.vertexops.com:80/Titanium_Lower_p/sf-ti-lower.htm=

[SINNER]

Because Titanium is heavier, heavier than aluminum, and definitely heavier than Aluminum Lithium.

As for price, I never machine Aluminum Lithium so I'm not sure how easy or hard it is (tooling/machine time/whatever), but pretty sure it's not a cheap alloy. I read about it being used in fighter aircraft several years ago, kinda wondered when or if it'd hit the AR market.

It's much harder to machine than standard aluminum alloys. DLC or polycrystalline diamond toolings are pretty much the minimum for machining. The Al-Li alloys are pretty amazing. Much less dense but structurally stronger.

[Joelski]

Because Titanium is heavier, heavier than aluminum, and definitely heavier than Aluminum Lithium.

As for price, I never machine Aluminum Lithium so I'm not sure how easy or hard it is (tooling/machine time/whatever), but pretty sure it's not a cheap alloy. I read about it being used in fighter aircraft several years ago, kinda wondered when or if it'd hit the AR market.

But 7075 AL-Li isn't aerospace alloy, really, and it has its own flaws that Ti doesn't have. Sure, a firearm won't exploit those weaknesses, but Neither will plain old 7075 AL. So, it better be a hell of a lot lighter, because they took away the whole exclusivity thing by including that horrid trigger guard. It doesn't fit the design any better than a snorkel hoodscoop fits on an Enzo.

[Joelski]

I actually think the price is good for what it is.

Titanium is 3x the cost: http://www.vertexops.com/mobile/product.aspx?ProductCode=sf%2Dti%2Dlower&404;http://www.vertexops.com:80/Titanium_Lower_p/sf-ti-lower.htm=

You can also buy muzzle devices for under $40. That's a significant chunk of Ti, so that price is set by the maker, to which I ask; who the hell is Shepherd Firearms? How many insanely overpriced Ti lowers can an unknown maker sell? It's all about the name. Noveske gets a $100+ premium for their roll stamp on a USGI lower.

[UWone77]

You can also buy muzzle devices for under $40. That's a significant chunk of Ti, so that price is set by the maker, to which I ask; who the hell is Shepherd Firearms? How many insanely overpriced Ti lowers can an unknown maker sell? It's all about the name. Noveske gets a $200+ premium for their roll stamp on a USGI lower.

To be fair, Noveske Forged Lowers are $175 [:D]

[Joelski]

Fixed it. Gibson does the same thing with the Les Paul. The basic designed hasn't changed in 60 years, but throw on a new color, do a different sunburst finish, or add new-fangled tuning machines and it's another $5k guitar that shouldn't cost more than $1,800.

[SINNER]

But 7075 AL-Li isn't aerospace alloy, really, and it has its own flaws that Ti doesn't have. Sure, a firearm won't exploit those weaknesses, but Neither will plain old 7075 AL. So, it better be a hell of a lot lighter, because they took away the whole exclusivity thing by including that horrid trigger guard. It doesn't fit the design any better than a snorkel hoodscoop fits on an Enzo.

There is no such thing as 7075 Al-Li alloy, it's 2055 Al-Li alloy and it was without question developed by Alcoa for the aerospace industry. The first application was in the fuel cells of the space shuttle.

[Joelski]

Wow. Okay. I read something wrong in the RA description. More proof this week needs to be over, as if I needed more. I still think a high porosity casting in Ti would be lighter and far surpass the metallurgical qualities of Al-Li alloy.

[mustangfreek]

$300 plus for what again , a few ounces lighter then std..

Da fuq..

[fledge]

Comes with matching aluminum end plate ($27 retail). With Intro pricing, this is cheaper than some aluminum billet receivers and it's stronger. I'm digging it.

The machining is beautiful.

"V for ____________." Begging for some red paint.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/F7958DA9-ECDE-4138-9033-A12A276565A0_zpsqqxhuduv.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/F7958DA9-ECDE-4138-9033-A12A276565A0_zpsqqxhuduv.jpg.html)

[Aragorn]

V for Vendetta? That what you're alluring to?

[fledge]

Yes. I can't be the only one thinking that.

[Skypainter]

Hmm I may have to shorten my 4th show so I can add that to my rainier cart. It sure looks nice.

[din]

It looks fantastic, and I love all of my V7 components, but I just can't justify the extra expense right now since I'm trying to lay in some rainy-day forged lowers for after the election.

[Joelski]

Comes with matching aluminum end plate ($27 retail). With Intro pricing, this is cheaper than some aluminum billet receivers and it's stronger. I'm digging it.

The machining is beautiful.

"V for ____________." Begging for some red paint.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/F7958DA9-ECDE-4138-9033-A12A276565A0_zpsqqxhuduv.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/F7958DA9-ECDE-4138-9033-A12A276565A0_zpsqqxhuduv.jpg.html)

OT: Stronger? Billet is allegedly more prone to some stresses than forged because of some difference in molecular density. Seems like a long reach into a deep, dark place.

In real life, has anyone here bent, or broken either? I'd be interested in how many receivers have been tweaked by the average user. I can't even think of a scenario other than maybe a HALO jump, where an AR receiver failed!

[Joelski]

BOT: "Just to be different" is a good enough reason for me, but sinner' right; that boxy, afterthought trigger guard cuts that number down.

[SINNER]

I also disagree with the assumption it's stronger. If you took the same exact forging and machined it exactly the same you may see a strength improvement. But considering most improvements are in the 4-5% range over 7075, I would bet the more substantial billet lowers are much stronger. The stronger claims are likely over a standard forged lower but even those may very well be equal strength or better after all the material is removed for the lightening cuts. Given the 2055 alloy is a more rigid parent metal those lowers may even be more brittle than 7075.

[bzdog]

I think the idea here is just to build a light weight component.

The typical way you do that is to remove as much material as you can. After you have removed as much material as you can, you need a lighter and/or stronger (for the same weight) material.

This is exactly what BCM did with the KMR rail. You can only make an aluminum rail so light. So they used a lighter alloy.

So V7 is doing the same thing here. Using the alloy makes it lighter over aluminum. I don't know if they used less material than an aluminum part would have required, but the key thing is it's lighter.

The alloy is stronger than aluminum so they say that in the marketing blurb. Why wouldn't you? I think they are mostly trying to communicate that even though this part is light weight, it isn't delicate - not that this is the strongest lower on earth.

In pursuit of light weight, you have to go to more and more extremes if you don't want to give up performance and those extremes cost more.

-john

[JGifford]

I also disagree with the assumption it's stronger. If you took the same exact forging and machined it exactly the same you may see a strength improvement. But considering most improvements are in the 4-5% range over 7075, I would bet the more substantial billet lowers are much stronger. The stronger claims are likely over a standard forged lower but even those may very well be equal strength or better after all the material is removed for the lightening cuts. Given the 2055 alloy is a more rigid parent metal those lowers may even be more brittle than 7075.

Crack propagation resistance and fatigue stress is superior in the AlLi family. There really isn't a matrice that 2055 isn't superior to 7075 in to one extent or another that I am aware of.

[din]

Hodge Defense is using AlLi for their Au-2, not to save weight, but to add extra material for the same weight as a standard lower.

[fledge]

Looks better with the trigger.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/9F44FA30-6884-4354-AFCF-71303BAC29A0_zpsxdmyipep.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/9F44FA30-6884-4354-AFCF-71303BAC29A0_zpsxdmyipep.jpg.html)

[fledge]

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/1C48349A-2C57-40BA-A5BE-44F75228CF9B_zpsbufhivm0.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/1C48349A-2C57-40BA-A5BE-44F75228CF9B_zpsbufhivm0.jpg.html)

The selector sparkles too much.
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/AB13D047-CC3E-43DE-9572-55DF295CF06C_zpsr8na7b14.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/AB13D047-CC3E-43DE-9572-55DF295CF06C_zpsr8na7b14.jpg.html)

[Aragorn]

Looks good!

[fledge]

Thanks, Aragorn. The lower is growing on me. Looks better with black selector:

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/E7D76199-7D6B-486D-AF6B-72177A430919_zpswxflbpn3.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/E7D76199-7D6B-486D-AF6B-72177A430919_zpswxflbpn3.jpg.html)

One complaint I have is the rear takedown pin (VSeven). Best I can tell, the material is too thin on the receiver at the pin entry hole to keep the pin straight. It wobbles in the fully out position. And when pushed in without an upper, you need to guide it to the opposing hole because the detent/spring pressure pushes against it. Here's a pic to see how it angles in without guiding it into the opposing hole.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/F7179C27-A7C1-40DB-A724-E0FBDF708C25_zps7jmdklhg.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/F7179C27-A7C1-40DB-A724-E0FBDF708C25_zps7jmdklhg.jpg.html)

The pin fully seated:

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/C4932F69-8CDE-4CC6-B9A7-35A750A1E01A_zpsyaaxktk1.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/C4932F69-8CDE-4CC6-B9A7-35A750A1E01A_zpsyaaxktk1.jpg.html)

When fully seated the lockup is firm as expected. No give or wobble. If I were VSeven, that's something I would adjust for gen 2.

Now when will their matching upper hit the street?

[UWone77]

That's a good looking lower. You're right, needs a matching upper soon. What are your plans for this build?

[fledge]

Either a precision recce with VSeven barrel or a 6.5 Grendel. I have an ongoing debate with myself on whether to jump into the new caliber (ammo, bolt, mags, barrel
weight).

[fledge]

Update:

The PWS enhanced buffer tube looks right at home on this receiver. Lightweight. Textured for duty and styling for use as a pistol and a rifle buffer tube.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/891E7D30-E9C7-4BBA-B027-93C2BFA71F7E_zpstvwfc4gh.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/891E7D30-E9C7-4BBA-B027-93C2BFA71F7E_zpstvwfc4gh.jpg.html)

I spoke with VSeven about their enlightened upper last week. They predicted it was one month out. I also inquired about a enlightened rail that would fit properly with their 6.5" 300blk barrel. They said it was at anodizing already.

So this lower will be built into a pistol with a 6.5" 300blk barrel which I already have. In the future I'll make another upper to non-NFA length for this lower.

Loving how this build is evolving.

[fledge]

Changed course. Rifle/pistol will first be a 14.5". Then maybe a shorter pistol later.

Teaser:

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/2CE87428-760C-481A-9EF5-CA629D454A45_zpstxtrozyw.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/2CE87428-760C-481A-9EF5-CA629D454A45_zpstxtrozyw.jpg.html)

[EO3]

Changed course. Rifle/pistol will first be a 14.5". Then maybe a shorter pistol later.

Teaser:

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/2CE87428-760C-481A-9EF5-CA629D454A45_zpstxtrozyw.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/2CE87428-760C-481A-9EF5-CA629D454A45_zpstxtrozyw.jpg.html)

Really looking great! Curious to see what it weighs when you complete it.

[JGifford]

Looks really good!

[GOST]

What 14.5" barrel are you gonna use?

[fledge]

EO3, it'll be around a 5lb rifle. I'm not counting grams. While most are VSeven parts, the RE is PWS and the gas block will be an adj SLR.

GOST, VSeven lightweight.

[fledge]

Barrel installed. Needs pinning and then stock.

Current weight with everything but stock, mag, sights: 4lb 13oz

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/089C13C8-CF45-4206-B9FA-8B683ED49DEE_zpsgdiygrxk.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/089C13C8-CF45-4206-B9FA-8B683ED49DEE_zpsgdiygrxk.jpg.html)

[GOST]

Looks good, what stock are you using?

[fledge]

Probably Magpul moe SL or CTR.

Recommend something else?

[DISCOM]

Since you made some references about the current weight of the rifle and all 3 are good choices.

Sweet looking build so far

Magpul moe SL Weight, w/receiver extension: 13.6 oz.

Magpul CTR Weight, w/receiver extension: 12.8

MFT minimalist stock "under 6 oz as per company"

[GOST]

I think a Magpul SL-K would look good, 7.9 oz.

[Aragorn]

Or a BCM Gunfighter stock @ 7.5oz

[Joelski]

That's lookin' sharp, Fledge. I'm even making peace with the trigger guard. I think that lower would look better with a BAD upper than their own lower does.

[fledge]

Joelski, thanks. I don't know if any lower looks good with the BAD upper. I hope they redo that one in the near future. The CMC straight trigger helps that trigger guard.

Thanks for all your input. I can rule out the MFT minimalist immediately. Had one. Don't like the design. If I needed an umbrella handle to slide down wires and ropes like Mary Poppins though...

SL-K
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/F18719EA-A32F-41D2-A01A-0264C863C9A6_zpsw9p4frot.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/F18719EA-A32F-41D2-A01A-0264C863C9A6_zpsw9p4frot.jpg.html)

CTR
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/C7A1D584-A46D-4C97-8B76-DB9B572CC7BF_zpskjm4ek2n.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/C7A1D584-A46D-4C97-8B76-DB9B572CC7BF_zpskjm4ek2n.jpg.html)

MOE SL
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/FFBD337C-6BBA-4DE3-8FC4-D6A9BA10DA03_zps1i8ptnk5.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/FFBD337C-6BBA-4DE3-8FC4-D6A9BA10DA03_zps1i8ptnk5.jpg.html)

I lack a BCM to sample.

I'm digging all of them in the pics but will go with the SL-K to start out (I forgot I had one). It seems a good fit for the overall design. I just need to get used to the smaller butt.

[fledge]

Teaser update:

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/3F0C75E2-952D-4F4F-B0EC-FA1FBFBA492A_zpshywymqn1.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/3F0C75E2-952D-4F4F-B0EC-FA1FBFBA492A_zpshywymqn1.jpg.html)

Guess who painted this.

[Stone]

Flo and Eddys house of cerakote?:P

[fledge]

I thought Flo ran off with Alfredo?

[GOST]

Looks very nice, look forward to seeing the rest of it.

[fledge]

Thanks. I'll get full pics at the range tomorrow.

[EO3]

Thanks. I'll get full pics at the range tomorrow.

She's a beauty! I think the SL-K looks best and fits the build best, too.

[Axlnut]

No correct Cerakote guesses?

I heard it's a real pretty dude that lives off in the mountains and works out of a little gun shed, that ISN'T Mark Wahlberg..

[Joelski]

I like the look of the CTR the best. Overall, its coming along quite nicely!

[Stone]

No correct Cerakote guesses?

I heard it's a real pretty dude that lives off in the mountains and works out of a little gun shed, that ISN'T Mark Wahlberg..

Larry the cable guy? [:D]

[Axlnut]

On topic though, that was the nicest receiver set I have ever handled. Super light, clever, excellent machining - the barrel and rail were also superb in those categories.

[Axlnut]

Larry the cable guy? [:D]

You found me out.

I come to forums for anonymity :-(

[fledge]

Weather was awful today. Icy rain and wind. With all the snow, the exposure on the dark rifle misrepresents a little on the full body shots. But you still get the idea. I've included some indoor pics too which are overexposed. LOL. Test firing was 100%. Looking forward to testing the precision of this barrel.

Paint design: follow VSeven branding. Color is titanium with battleworn effect.

I wasn't counting ounces with this build. Arrived at 5lbs 8oz without mag but including Rainier BUIS.

I'm very pleased with the balance and overall weight. Most parts are VSeven. Noted exceptions: PWS buffer tube, SLR adj block, Dead Air flash hider, BCM CH, FC bolt catch.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/AD99FC4C-023A-4157-AD09-257DD84904A2_zpsbc1rcxek.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/AD99FC4C-023A-4157-AD09-257DD84904A2_zpsbc1rcxek.jpg.html)

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/2D75E538-9290-40B5-B7E5-A1B3FA366E85_zpsigjoxbo2.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/2D75E538-9290-40B5-B7E5-A1B3FA366E85_zpsigjoxbo2.jpg.html)

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/710A16DC-E0FB-4FEA-A7B8-27D8196E265B_zpsnrsln3jq.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/710A16DC-E0FB-4FEA-A7B8-27D8196E265B_zpsnrsln3jq.jpg.html)

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/7C223DB9-CB07-4DF2-AABB-1AD73F4E965C_zps6o6gyj4d.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/7C223DB9-CB07-4DF2-AABB-1AD73F4E965C_zps6o6gyj4d.jpg.html)

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/B3345AE1-1CFE-4118-B6AD-FDD76A2548E8_zpsbcjbbfig.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/B3345AE1-1CFE-4118-B6AD-FDD76A2548E8_zpsbcjbbfig.jpg.html)

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/02C635CC-816C-4F27-A174-39AF88C80D12_zpshnbecqw3.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/02C635CC-816C-4F27-A174-39AF88C80D12_zpshnbecqw3.jpg.html)

Axlnut kept the coat thin here to allow the laser mark to come through.
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/AEA31240-D108-47AF-837C-812B8F401CC5_zpsrd4gagsf.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/AEA31240-D108-47AF-837C-812B8F401CC5_zpsrd4gagsf.jpg.html)

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/15F87585-8C51-439A-98EC-0B53C2E08E1F_zps0yfsurq6.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/15F87585-8C51-439A-98EC-0B53C2E08E1F_zps0yfsurq6.jpg.html)

[Aragorn]

Looks good Fledge.

[Stone]

Is that V7's ENLIGHTENED M-LOK HANDGUARD? I have been eyeballin that one for a while. Does it feel solid like it could take some serious abuse? How does it feel in the hand? Oh and nice job on the Cerakte Axel, we all new it was you...[pop]

[Tyrannosaur]

That is f*#kin' awesome

[fledge]

Thanks guys.

Stone, yes. The rail feels as solid and comfortable as the SMOS and Noveske rails. The material is supposedly more durable than 7075. I believe SMOS let VSeven take their SM15 rail design and update it with a few tweaks and new material. It does not perfectly mate with the GFY or SM uppers though. Wish it did.

[fledge]

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/7878EF48-70C3-4EB3-AD19-EE44E871C0B6_zpsrmwgufem.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/7878EF48-70C3-4EB3-AD19-EE44E871C0B6_zpsrmwgufem.jpg.html)

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/58B28989-15D5-4157-8E5E-3F1470F1E6D7_zpsw4m2fyeu.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/58B28989-15D5-4157-8E5E-3F1470F1E6D7_zpsw4m2fyeu.jpg.html)

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/173B28A1-05A4-4D67-8A85-F86C7A76BA09_zps34haesh1.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/173B28A1-05A4-4D67-8A85-F86C7A76BA09_zps34haesh1.jpg.html)

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/B022B1F2-985B-4651-86A0-AB02E3027B46_zpsd03bqxem.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/B022B1F2-985B-4651-86A0-AB02E3027B46_zpsd03bqxem.jpg.html)

[Axlnut]

Hot diggity I love that gun. Didn't want to send it back!

[Cotton68spc]

Amazing build


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JGifford]

But 7075 AL-Li isn't aerospace alloy, really, and it has its own flaws that Ti doesn't have. Sure, a firearm won't exploit those weaknesses, but Neither will plain old 7075 AL. So, it better be a hell of a lot lighter, because they took away the whole exclusivity thing by including that horrid trigger guard. It doesn't fit the design any better than a snorkel hoodscoop fits on an Enzo.

7075 Al-Li isn't a thing, either.
(however, 7075 WAS(when in vented)/IS(currently in use) Aerospace, as well... fun fact ;) )

2055 and 2099 Al-Li is a thing, and both ARE Aerospace alloys, being currently used by Boeing because they reduce maintenance cycles, have enhanced corrosion resistance, decreased crack propagation propensities, and higher modulus of elasticity. They also weigh a few percent less. *all as compared to 7075

The only "flaw" with AlLi is how painstakingly careful the anodizer has to be to get Type III RIGHT, and increased tooling wear and different CNC programs to account for thermal and shift differences in the material when cutting. It literally trumps 7075 T651 in every aspect from strength to weight to rigidity to resistance to fatigue to corrosion resistance. There is NOTHING it does not do better.

But...7075 will also do the job of "M4 lower". I won't argue that in the least. That said, so will 6061. Would you like a 6061 lower for the same % less as Al-Li costs more, than 7075? Why or why not?

OP, did you double-check the ACTUAL weight on that lower acclaimed at 6.4oz? I am not at all saying Joel is not 100% accurate, I would just like a 3rd party verification.

[JGifford]

BOT: "Just to be different" is a good enough reason for me, but sinner' right; that boxy, afterthought trigger guard cuts that number down.

I mentioned this to Joel. He took my criticism politely and from what I know of V7, they are very "mobile" as a design producer, and I would not at all be surprised if we see a refinement of a few things in the future. Unless Joel plans on just not innovating anymore. Which is not going to happen. He was Noveske's "idea guy", and V7 allows him to be HIS "idea guy", and we are seeing the fruits of that constantly.

Does Noveske even have an Ambi lower yet?

I bet they miss Joel.

[Axlnut]

I mentioned this to Joel. He took my criticism politely and from what I know of V7, they are very "mobile" as a design producer, and I would not at all be surprised if we see a refinement of a few things in the future. Unless Joel plans on just not innovating anymore. Which is not going to happen. He was Noveske's "idea guy", and V7 allows him to be HIS "idea guy", and we are seeing the fruits of that constantly.

Does Noveske even have an Ambi lower yet?

I bet they miss Joel.

Does V7 have an ambi lower?

I know a few of you are being hard on the triggerguard, and I can maybe see it in photos - in your hands though, it's a different story. Functional and flows elegantly with the rest of the lines.

[fledge]

Apparently they like boxy handguards. Their newly released lower (7075) mostly keeps it and adds the Noveske-like magwell flair.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/3961CF9C-CF96-4A60-9BA6-93FC7790968B_zpslqxpb7at.jpeg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/3961CF9C-CF96-4A60-9BA6-93FC7790968B_zpslqxpb7at.jpeg.html)

I didn't weight my lower to verify weight. I wasn't personally chasing ounces with this build.

Joel isn't the only idea guy. There is a reason SMOS sells the GFY that Noveske made popular.

[JGifford]

Apparently they like boxy handguards. Their newly released lower (7075) mostly keeps it and adds the Noveske-like magwell flair.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/3961CF9C-CF96-4A60-9BA6-93FC7790968B_zpslqxpb7at.jpeg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/3961CF9C-CF96-4A60-9BA6-93FC7790968B_zpslqxpb7at.jpeg.html)

I didn't weight my lower to verify weight. I wasn't personally chasing ounces with this build.

Joel isn't the only idea guy. There is a reason SMOS sells the GFY that Noveske made popular.

I was just curious. I weigh things to check claims. For example, NONE of my Surefire suppressors weigh what they should, but all of my Geissele mounts weigh what they should. Mainly, I wanted to compare the ACTUAL weight of the V7 lower to the less trimmed, but also Al-Li Hodge Defense lower. I am sure the V7 will be lighter, but I was curious by how much. It's an inevitable comparo, given the materials.

You'd be surprised at the things Joel and John Noveske cooked up. Right or wrong, I have always, and always will view Joel as the idea guy behind Noveske.

SMOS sells a GFY lower...and calls it that...for a reason. Yes, you are absolutely right...but that has more to do with politics than it does "ideas".

My point with the ambi-lower crack on Noveske was to point out...what have they innovated in the last few years? Seriously. What?

Let me go to their website...hold...

...well, they are doing MLOK now. I guess when Kincel went over the BCM, that was that for the KM / Noveske exclusivity marriage. They brought back the N6...cool. They slightly re-designed their upper and lowers, which are now billet instead of forged ingot/hand forged. I see an Ambi-safety selector.

Welp. That's it. Brought back a .308, slapped an ambi-safety in. Aesthetically re-designed the upper/lower slightly (I bet they now take G3 PMAG's, too).

That's all.

That's it.

That is the complete sum of Noveske innovation over the last 1/2 decade. A face-lift of the lines of their billet upper/lowers. Switched their NSR over to MLOK and tweaked the profile a touch. Different small-parts kit. That's it.

Even COLT has innovated more than that in the last 5 years.

So if Joel wasn't their only idea guy, I am not sure who else was, but they probably wish they had him/her back, too.


_____________________

It is and always has been my opinion that the only think Noveske about Noveske since John passed, has been the name on the mailing address. I know why they didn't change the name of course,but I wish they had. Some legacies need to be left alone. Today's Noveske is like "Independence Day II".

[UWone77]

Well.... Noveske did come out with some new QD sockets a couple of years ago. [:D]

Virtually everyone at Noveske that I knew is gone. The talent has spread out to other Southern Oregon companies.

[GOST]

...and Noveske's new Mega produced receivers have a nice fit and finish.[BD]

[fledge]

When I take it apart again, I'll weigh it.


SMOS sells a GFY lower...and calls it that...for a reason. Yes, you are absolutely right...but that has more to do with politics than it does "ideas".

I spoke with someone familiar with the matter that SMOS actually designed that set and retained ownership of the design. So I was alluding that original ideas even on hat project were also outside Noveske. And yes to the politics.

I think Noveske's ambi is Magpul's.

Good to see Joel doing what he's doing. He always answers my emails personally which speaks a lot about him.

[UWone77]

When I take it apart again, I'll weigh it.



I spoke with someone familiar with the matter that SMOS actually designed that set and retained ownership of the design.

And we have a winner....

[Joelski]

7075 Al-Li isn't a thing, either.
(however, 7075 WAS(when in vented)/IS(currently in use) Aerospace, as well... fun fact ;) )

2055 and 2099 Al-Li is a thing, and both ARE Aerospace alloys, being currently used by Boeing because they reduce maintenance cycles, have enhanced corrosion resistance, decreased crack propagation propensities, and higher modulus of elasticity. They also weigh a few percent less. *all as compared to 7075

The only "flaw" with AlLi is how painstakingly careful the anodizer has to be to get Type III RIGHT, and increased tooling wear and different CNC programs to account for thermal and shift differences in the material when cutting. It literally trumps 7075 T651 in every aspect from strength to weight to rigidity to resistance to fatigue to corrosion resistance. There is NOTHING it does not do better.

But...7075 will also do the job of "M4 lower". I won't argue that in the least. That said, so will 6061. Would you like a 6061 lower for the same % less as Al-Li costs more, than 7075? Why or why not?

OP, did you double-check the ACTUAL weight on that lower acclaimed at 6.4oz? I am not at all saying Joel is not 100% accurate, I would just like a 3rd party verification.

Okay, since you apparently didn't read down and make note that I mis-stated. How about naming one aircraft that presently utilizes 2099? It doesn't have to be a Boeing. [;)]

[fledge]

To add to the SMOS, Noveske, VSeven mystery...

Here's what I call the gen 1 (on top) and gen 2 SMOS SM upper receivers. Notice the difference at the top of the pillar. One is rounded.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/SMOS/B04FB21B-BEE3-41F8-A703-94B18BDD3E43_zpsmysvevdv.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/SMOS/B04FB21B-BEE3-41F8-A703-94B18BDD3E43_zpsmysvevdv.jpg.html)

Same Gen 2 receiver on bottom. On top is the VSeven Enlightened upper. Notice top of pillar.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/SMOS/E02BB085-D22C-4B49-91DF-86870F464648_zpscf8tmjbt.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/SMOS/E02BB085-D22C-4B49-91DF-86870F464648_zpscf8tmjbt.jpg.html)

Not just top of pillar, but the lines connect the upper and lower in the same places. Here's the SM upper on the VSeven lower. The match is the same on both sides.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/SMOS/0DD52498-7024-410A-AFA8-1B7B7598B186_zpsf3dklhay.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/SMOS/0DD52498-7024-410A-AFA8-1B7B7598B186_zpsf3dklhay.jpg.html)

The SM upper was discontinued around at the same time the VSeven upper went into production. The new VSeven Enlightened handguards also have similar cutouts and QD socket to the SM rails.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/SMOS/04C4B5E4-CDB1-4CDD-8359-7551E3F2479C_zpsqn0bxo4a.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/SMOS/04C4B5E4-CDB1-4CDD-8359-7551E3F2479C_zpsqn0bxo4a.jpg.html)

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/SMOS/7B5DEF71-8455-4168-988B-1B8DD3623D95_zpspyodqzwj.jpeg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/SMOS/7B5DEF71-8455-4168-988B-1B8DD3623D95_zpspyodqzwj.jpeg.html)

My hunch is that the SMOS designer designed the VSeven set based on the SM platform and because of that (and the success of GFY) discontinued the SM line.

We know Erath3 uses SMOS too... and I've seen striking similarities between Erath3 uppers and Radian (AXTS) uppers (like the way their logo/name is engraved on back of the pic rail on the upper receiver, though the latter claims to be all in house.

This is not to mention the Larue lower of years past.

Whatever the case, if I were a gun magazine journalist, I'd want to be talking to the SMOS designer cause he has quite the skills, artistry, and portfolio.

Some of this is mere consumer speculation so take it FWIW. Some of you may have found this obvious already and I'm just the latecomer. :)

[Axlnut]

This poor horse. Either way, let me throw in.

I've consulted with / worked with a few of the former Noveske guys, and here's my understanding of how it worked, and it should all make sense after this.

John had an open design policy for all employees. You have an idea? Sketch it, present it, see what everyone thinks. He encouraged learning and using the company CAD and prototyping to see what his people could come up with, collaboratively or on their own.

When ideas made the cut, John worked licensing and content creation to ensure the idea man benefited. That's why you've seen some familiar parts leave and pop up with former Noveske people after John's passing, and others are still getting checks from "new" Noveske.

A lot of parts from the PNW where born, at least in idea stage, at Noveske, from everyone involved. Some items out now were passed on at the time, some were in que when John passed, etc.

Hopefully this sheds some light on the potential dramas with the GFY stuff, the similar extrusion profiles (likely using the same dies for obvious reasons), and most importantly, the kind of man John was. In a way he gave us so much more than Noveske, because of how he treated his people.

[fledge]

I love that teamwork approach to business.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/0072A688-C002-4540-89A6-4F76DFF6BD3D_zpsrgvju98r.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/0072A688-C002-4540-89A6-4F76DFF6BD3D_zpsrgvju98r.jpg.html)

[JGifford]

Okay, since you apparently didn't read down and make note that I mis-stated. How about naming one aircraft that presently utilizes 2099? It doesn't have to be a Boeing. [;)]

https://books.google.com/books?id=OG7PzP5xiHwC&pg=PA523&lpg=PA523&dq=2099+aluminum+lithium+a380+airbus&source=bl&ots=Qv89cPIlI9&sig=3Eq6FEeugMjbbbmya6m67mybIFg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiTor7F5YzRAhUQ24MKHchMDgMQ6AEIHjAC#v=on epage&q=2099%20aluminum%20lithium%20a380%20airbus&f=false


There ya go.

[Joelski]

https://books.google.com/books?id=OG7PzP5xiHwC&pg=PA523&lpg=PA523&dq=2099+aluminum+lithium+a380+airbus&source=bl&ots=Qv89cPIlI9&sig=3Eq6FEeugMjbbbmya6m67mybIFg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiTor7F5YzRAhUQ24MKHchMDgMQ6AEIHjAC#v=on epage&q=2099%20aluminum%20lithium%20a380%20airbus&f=false


There ya go.
Nice try. It's a proposed use.

[GOST]

Let's not litter up V Seven's thread.

[Joelski]

Let's not litter up V Seven's thread.

Agreed.

The lower looks great with a grip installed; the guard becomes less weird-looking and more new design. I would like to see a traditional FA upper, or a real innovative use of the empty space. Perhaps a place to park a spare bolt? Storage space grips sometimes do a great job of dropping the insert with a heavier item like a bolt housed in it. That space has so much more potential than being a slate for each designer's CNC doodles. Great evolution so far.

[fledge]

I prefer no FA, personally. I've been influenced by Clint Smith.

I think this particular set is a bit space-gun.

This is their second lower and third upper. Their first lower is traditional forged. They have a third lower just released which isn't space gun. I suspect they will have a more low key upper to go with it. Their first upper lacked FA and their current forged upper has FA. I expect both offerings to stay in production.

Would like to see them innovate worh bolts (like KAC), with ambi lower, and offer/educate on port sizes so that their pinned blocks will suit the end users application.

[JGifford]

Nice try. It's a proposed use.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://icas.org/ICAS_ARCHIVE/ICAS2006/PAPERS/195.PDF&ved=0ahUKEwiV78bRj47RAhXrzIMKHWstDd8QFggsMAc&usg=AFQjCNGzKl28eiQha3-C0ol3cRm72cp4eQ&sig2=UzwtsVqWP77_Cv2H_j5fBw

Currently used. Exact phrase: "Two aluminum lithium (Al-Li) alloys of
the latest generation are qualified by Airbus and
currently applied in the A380 program: the
Alcan 2196 and the Alcoa 2099. They are used
for extruded crossbeams, longitudinal beams,
seat rails."

First paragraph under header "4.1 aluminum lithium alloys" .


That said, and back on track, what impresses me most about v7s rifle is the anodizing. Aluminum Lithium is a raging bitch to anodize, and this is part of why geissele discontinued their 2099 mounts. I think people who do not understand aluminum lithium fully, fail to fully appreciate just how much innovation Joel and his upper and lower set represent.

[Axlnut]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://icas.org/ICAS_ARCHIVE/ICAS2006/PAPERS/195.PDF&ved=0ahUKEwiV78bRj47RAhXrzIMKHWstDd8QFggsMAc&usg=AFQjCNGzKl28eiQha3-C0ol3cRm72cp4eQ&sig2=UzwtsVqWP77_Cv2H_j5fBw

Currently used. Exact phrase: "Two aluminum lithium (Al-Li) alloys of
the latest generation are qualified by Airbus and
currently applied in the A380 program: the
Alcan 2196 and the Alcoa 2099. They are used
for extruded crossbeams, longitudinal beams,
seat rails."

First paragraph under header "4.1 aluminum lithium alloys" .


That said, and back on track, what impresses me most about v7s rifle is the anodizing. Aluminum Lithium is a raging bitch to anodize, and this is part of why geissele discontinued their 2099 mounts. I think people who do not understand aluminum lithium fully, fail to fully appreciate just how much innovation Joel and his upper and lower set represent.

Being one of the relatively few guys to go at said anodizing with both a blaster AND variety of scratchy implements that would make you cringe, it is tough as nails, well applied.

[JGifford]

Being one of the relatively few guys to go at said anodizing with both a blaster AND variety of scratchy implements that would make you cringe, it is tough as nails, well applied.

By virtue of what it takes to properly anodized 2000 series AlLi, I would expect it to be impressively tough.

[jerrysimons]

Apparently they like boxy handguards. Their newly released lower (7075) mostly keeps it and adds the Noveske-like magwell flair.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/V%20Seven/3961CF9C-CF96-4A60-9BA6-93FC7790968B_zpslqxpb7at.jpeg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/V%20Seven/3961CF9C-CF96-4A60-9BA6-93FC7790968B_zpslqxpb7at.jpeg.html)

I didn't weight my lower to verify weight. I wasn't personally chasing ounces with this build.

Joel isn't the only idea guy. There is a reason SMOS sells the GFY that Noveske made popular.


Where did you get this lower pic?

My 2055 AL-Li LR Enlightened Lower is 6.4oz weighed (6.4oz spec)
My 2055 AL-Li LR Enlightened upper is 5.85oz weighed (5.8oz spec)

SMOS probably consulted or machines or even works for V Seven, IDK.

Joel and Crew got it going on. Don't forget about Todd K.

Also, how/where did you get your Dead Air Keymount Brake machined?

[Stone]

Is that the Pyro Enhanced Muzzle Brake? How do you like it?

[fledge]

Jerry, it's an early release at Rainier Arms. I'm confident SMOS machines the VSeven uppers, lowers, rails. They have a lot of similarity with the discontinued SMOS SM15 sets.

SMOS is a machine shop first.

I'll PM you on the machined brake.

Stone, I like it. It adds weight--not nearly like a can, and is a noticeable brake on the flash hider. I don't know how much it dispels the concussion on the dead Air brake since I've not asked someone standing nearby. If it does, that's an added bonus for those occasions.

I primarily got it as consolation for waiting for my sandman and to test the attachment, fitment and clearances with rails. I've found them as low as $177 with shipping.