Plate Carrier ?

[Sak007]

My buddy is looking for a plate carrier and I decided to come here for some opinions . Most the new ones I see only carry plates and not soft armor and are based more on lightweight rigs vs plates in conjunction with soft armor like a balcs cut . What are the pros vs cons of a plate only vs. a carrier such as my M/Ciras which apparently doesn't exist anymore ?This will be used for a shtf situation .

[Former11B]

The M/CIRAS (which definitely still exists) is more bulky compared to standard plate-only carriers, and offers the quick-release option in case of wounding that needs to be immediately addressed or weight to shed in case of drowning. The added bulk also provides more MOLLE loops making it able to carry more gear or give you more mounting options for said gear. Having soft armor in conjunction with plates just adds to ballistic protection; the soft armor will help absorb fragmentation and will "catch" things that might make it through the plate. This does add weight and increases insulation/heat build up. The "L" version of the CIRAS is more like the plate carrier I have which is this:

http://www.aotacticalgear.com/image/cache/data/CondorOutdoor/VESTS/201039_003F_2014-500x500.jpg

I only have hard plates in it, no soft ones, and I opted to remove the side SAPIs for weight reduction. I left the panels there so I can attach pistol mag pouches and an IFAK but the panels are easily removed if the owner finds necessary

Also, what kind of plates does your friend have or want? Steel plates are really heavy but cheaper; if he's going with steel, you definitely want to get a quality rig and not skimp on it. Ceramic plates are lighter but more expensive. I prefer ceramic due to weight and contour...and I've seen testing on steel plates even with a spall coating they send some nasty fragment ricochets that concern me.

[Default.mp3]

Part of the question is, what is the purpose of using armor during SHTF? How much is he willing to invest? Does he already own plate?

Having soft armor might be mandatory for some plates to bring them up to rating, e.g., the Velocity Systems API-BZ ICW only provides the specified ballistic protection if used in-conjunction with soft armor; without it, it won't save you from much. If you don't have an ICW plate, but have stand-alone plates, then the soft armor provides some extra padding and blunt trauma absorption (useful to protect against backside deformation), but at the expense of extra weight, heat, and maintenance, and generally with minimal improvement in ballistic protection (most soft armor used with ICW plates can only catch fragments when used by itself, although you can certainly use actual Level II or IIIa armor as armor backers to improve ballistic protection).

But seriously, armor being helpful during SHTF seems to be an incredibly rare event for your average civilian, short of long term disintegration of society.

[Sak007]

Money isn't really that big of an object , he really likes my M/ciras but I haven't seen much comparable as of late and can't find the ciras period .
I think hes leaning towards ceramic plates with soft armor and side plates , he needs to corralled before he goes overboard and winds up with an full eod suit [BD]
And as far as not needing armor it's way past that argument and on to the shopping list now .

[UWone77]

I have probably half dozen plate carriers from "high speed" manufacturers. I'll sacrifice speed over trying to manipulate my weapon with extra armor on. Armor gets heavy, and heavy fast.

Having said that, I usually carry a Tactical Tailor Fight Light Carrier in the trunk.

[Default.mp3]

The problem is that nice plates are quite pricey. A decent set of plates can easily be 1500 USD or more, and that's before you get a carrier. Throw in side plates, and you can be spending over 2000 USD. For example, a full set of Midwest Armor Venture FM4s, which are lightweight, Level IV standalone plates, in ESAPI size medium with 6×6 side plates, would be around 3000 USD shipped. The AT Armor STOP-BZs (rebranded TenCate Cratus 6400SAs), which are lightweight, special threat standalone plates, are about 2500 USD for a full set, front, back, and sides.

Again, for standalone plates, there is no real practical reason to have soft armor. Soft armor adds weight and thickness, which isn't a huge issue with ICW plates, since those are generally thinner and lighter than standalone, so overall it becomes something of a wash, but soft armor will also degrade under heat, e.g., if kept in a car during summer.

Ideally, he should first establish what kind of armor he wants, and how that armor will be used. Will it be strictly overt usage, or will he consider covert usage too? What level of coverage does he want, e.g., does he want to be protected against just typical CONUS threats, or does he want to go all in and be able to absorb stuff like 7.62×54mmR API? What kind of budget does he have, given that one can usually only choose two of the following: cheap, light, or thin, and that's all in relative terms, depending on what threat level he wants to be able to mitigate. After figuring out what armor he wants, then start looking at what carrier he wants, as the plates he chooses and the mission for the armor will dictate what carriers to look at.

Be aware that armor level designations are not very straight forward. For example, NIJ Level III only means that a plate is rated against 6 rounds of 7.62×51mm M80 FMJ; this does not translate into protection against 5.56×45mm. There are many NIJ Level III rated plates that can be defeated by M855 (generally lightweight, but thick, UHMWPE plates) or be defeated by M193 (generally thin steel plates), but people think that "hey, it'll protect against .308, so it'll definitely protect against .223". Or, consider the fact that Level IV plates are not necessarily multi-hit; all that it takes to be rated NIJ Level IV is the ability to provide protection against a single round of .30-06 M2 AP. This does not translate into being able to provide proper protection against multiple rounds of 5.56×45mm or 7.62×39mm or 7.62×51mm.

Why does he like the MAR-CIRAS?

FWIW, First Spear makes several products that fits SPEAR/BALCS cut armor backers, such as the Sloucher and the Siege.

I personally currently use a BFG PLATEminus with some Paraclete LCTT-IV standalones as my carbine class rig, in conjunction with a Tyr war belt; ideally, I'd like to spring for a Tyr PICO with the AT Armor STOP-BZs, including side plates.

[Army203]

For SHTF I would take speed and mobility over a heavy plate carrier with a bunch of shit on it. Unless you are conditioning with any type of plate carrier it will break you down fast.

That being said it isn't a bad idea have a set of plates, but I own some ceramic stand alone I picked up from Bullet Proof Me. They are expensive, but they are light weight and I don't see myself being in a spot where I need to worry about taking multiple hits to the chest. Plus in SHTF my biggest worry isn't getting shot in the chest. It is getting shot in a limb and having that round hit bone without any means of medical care. So my first rule of SHTF is don't get in a gun fight. Which means move fast and fly low profile. So I will wear soft BA in a Level III. I have a great vest made by Safe guard armor that I like because of the triple threat protection it offers.

For plate carriers I like Mayflower products. I have used there low-profile stuff for a while. I don't like to hang shit off plate carriers anymore, and it allows me to throw my Tac-Tailor MAV over it.

[UWone77]

For SHTF I would take speed and mobility over a heavy plate carrier with a bunch of shit on it. Unless you are conditioning with any type of plate carrier it will break you down fast.

That being said it isn't a bad idea have a set of plates, but I own some ceramic stand alone I picked up from Bullet Proof Me. They are expensive, but they are light weight and I don't see myself being in a spot where I need to worry about taking multiple hits to the chest. Plus in SHTF my biggest worry isn't getting shot in the chest. It is getting shot in a limb and having that round hit bone without any means of medical care. So my first rule of SHTF is don't get in a gun fight. Which means move fast and fly low profile. So I will wear soft BA in a Level III. I have a great vest made by Safe guard armor that I like because of the triple threat protection it offers.

For plate carriers I like Mayflower products. I have used there low-profile stuff for a while. I don't like to hang shit off plate carriers anymore, and it allows me to throw my Tac-Tailor MAV over it.

Pretty much spot on.

If you want a plate carrier to hold extra mags, that's fine, but some crazy dream of getting into some drawn out firefight where you burn through 6 magazines is such a crazy fantasy it doesn't even register on the realism scale for me. SHTF, I'm keeping my head down, and if faced with a possible force on force situation, retreat to fight another day... and it's harder to retreat with a plate carrier on. This is just my philosophy though.

[voodoo_man]

Depends on his requirements.

[Sak007]

Hopefully I can get him to post so he can elaborate further instead of me guessing for him . Maybe hes scared to ask for fear of being flamed like on some forums , also hence why I come here for opinions instead of immediate shit talking .

[Sequim Shooter]

Hello All. First post on Wevo. I was a lurker/member on another board for eleven years.

I am the one interested in a plate carrier. I currently have level IIIa soft armor in a covert vest.

I am looking for a plate carrier that will not be bulky, not have a bunch of stuff hanging off it, and will allow me to be mobile. I want the option of side plates/armor. I have a Haley Strategics D3 chest rig that I may attach to the plate carrier if the need arises. I may just buy a small ESSTAC Swiftclip placard to keep everything superlight.

[Army203]

Hello All. First post on Wevo. I was a lurker/member on another board for eleven years.

I am the one interested in a plate carrier. I currently have level IIIa soft armor in a covert vest.

I am looking for a plate carrier that will not be bulky, have a bunch of stuff hanging off it, and will allow me to be mobile. I want the option of side plates/armor. I have a Haley Strategics D3 chest rig that I may attach to the plate carrier if the need arises. I may just buy a small ESSTAC Swiftclip placard to keep everything superlight.

Mayflower low-profile.

[Sequim Shooter]

My last post should have read "not" have a bunch of stuff hanging off it. Typing with a three year old daughter "helping" me.

Sak007 has led me down a multicam path.

[Former11B]

It also takes A LOT of training and conditioning to get used to the plate carrier and be able to operate comfortably and build up the added strength/endurance you need. If can take a couple months of daily frequent on-off and training in before one day it doesn't feel like a heavy rig anymore, it's just like putting on another layer. And if you go with ceramic plates, you might consider a set of steel plates to train in so 1) the ceramics are lighter when you go to use them in whatever situation and 2) you don't crack or damage them in training. Although I've used regular black SAPIs and green ESAPIs very heavily and have never broken one. That includes bashing them into a Humvee turret for hours a day, every day, for months on end

[Stone]

Plus one on the Mayflower APC, love mine. Fully loaded out its around 22lbs but I wear around 40lbs. strapped to my body for 10-12 hours a day so its pretty comfortable for me. They fit tight to the body and are ergonomically well engineered. Start out simple with a PC, front and back plates and a few mag pouches. Run and gun with that set up and add more as you actually put the gear through its paces. I found out I didnt like the side plates, to much bulk and reduced mobility for me. As mentioned above a plate carrier is a different animal all together.

[Sequim Shooter]

I have tried to put this good info to use. Sak007, I did not end up with a full EOD suit. [BD]

I have purchased level IV multicurve esapi ceramic plates, 6x8 enhanced ceramic side plates. Comfort while wearing the plate carrier was the guiding force to this purchase decision.

I am looking for easy in and out and possibly releasable. The MAR-Ciras and Mayflower APC were mentioned in this thread.

There aren't any MAR-CIRAS in multicam to be found...

I don't want to go budget and regret it. Are there any carriers that have enhanced shoulder straps or padding?

Stone mentioned side plates being too bulky and limiting mobility. Are there aftermarket additions for the side plates? I want to be able to remove and add easily.

Thank you to everyone for the positive input.

[Sak007]

1422
http://www.nrastore.com/nra-concealed-carry-denim-vest

[Sequim Shooter]

Maybe something not that comfortable.

[UWone77]

Have you worn a vest with all 4 ESAPI plates? The weight is significant IMHO. I've got a vest collecting dust because I moved to something simpler with front and back plates.

[Sequim Shooter]

I have worn a vest with all four plates and it was very uncomfortable.

Is there a carrier that uses easy on/off side pouches?

I want the minimalist approach with the ability to modify into full protection.

[Former11B]

I have worn a vest with all four plates and it was very uncomfortable.

Is there a carrier that uses easy on/off side pouches?

I want the minimalist approach with the ability to modify into full protection.

What kind of vest was it?

My old IBA wasn't uncomfortable, but it was just bulky as hell.

I have a Condor plate carrier now with side panels that can be removed pretty easily. I keep the panels installed but the side plates removed just for added MOLLE space. The front and rear ESAPIs are heavy, but train in it for a while and they aren't too bad. I've thought about getting an inexpensive set of steel plates for training just so I don't damage my ESAPIs doing drills, though.

Without the panels:
http://www.condoroutdoor.com/images/products/detail/MOPC_001NoCummerbund_2014.3.jpg


With panels:
http://www.condoroutdoor.com/images/products/detail/MOPC_003F_2014_v02.png

[UWone77]

I have worn a vest with all four plates and it was very uncomfortable.

Is there a carrier that uses easy on/off side pouches?

I want the minimalist approach with the ability to modify into full protection.

I'm not sure I would trust easy on/off side pouches. The retaining mechanism would have to be very secure.

I don't know what your purpose for your gear is, but I decided against full protection, just because there is always a trade off with weight/speed. I went to a Tactical Tailor Fight Light carrier, which is more or less minimalist, as it carries 3 spare rifle mags, and front and back plates. I tried to train with the full 4 plates, but it's not going to work for LEO work IMHO, as the only time I would probably deploy it, is an active shooter, where I would take speed vs protection.

If I was in the military that would probably be a different story.