BCM KMR is WEAK sauce!

[Aragorn]

So I'm no longer a fan of the BCM KMR, the original magnesium variant as I have no experience with the Alpha.

Why? Because it is super weak sauce.

The firearm was leaning against a wall, unloaded, on a rug carpet. It fell over. It landed on the front offset iron sight, which is a Griffin Armament. Ultimately a VERY low impact event.

Here is how well the KMR DIDN'T handle it.

1298

1299

1300

And here is the front sight, which is what took the impact, and still looks new out of the wrapper.

1301

1302

Seriously? This is unacceptable. A front sight can no longer be utilized at the front of the forend anymore with any ghost of a hope of being aligned with a rear, and that's from simply falling over on a rug.

I'll will be contacting BCM about this and will report with how it pans out.

[Jerry R]

I will be following this thread with great interest. I have two.

[UWone77]

There are more than a few reports similar to this. The alpha is superior in every way except weight. I'm sure BCM will take care of you.

[Slippers]

I have already deformed a couple magnesium KMRs during destructive testing. The alpha is stronger and more rigid.

Want something really tough? Geissele.

[Joelski]

Mg just isn't strong in that thin of a structure. That lesson has been learned.

[Stickman]

Well that is troubling. Let us know what BCM says.

[alamo5000]

That sucks a lot. Seriously.

Here's to hoping that they do right.

[EO3]

I'd be pretty shocked if they don't make things right.

[Joelski]

I'd be pretty shocked if they don't make things right.

Second this. What amazes me is why they even tried it in the first place with all the knowledge from the motorcycle and aerospace industries alone.

[tact]

Second this. What amazes me is why they even tried it in the first place with all the knowledge from the motorcycle and aerospace industries alone.

Because everyone loves BCM......!? The fact that they tried it and sold it to the consumer given said prior knowledge says a lot.

[cjd3]

Well, now you don't need an offset front sight.

[mustangfreek]

Wow...

Goes to show all this uber new technology doesn't always outweigh the alternative ..as that is crazy from just falling over..

[Aragorn]

You know, I knew the magnesium alloy was weaker than aluminum, but not being in the motorcycle world or ever having really worked with magnesium, and given BCM's rep for good stuff, I really thought that the alloy would at least APPROACH the strength of aluminum.

Guess not.

I've already emailed BCM and sent along all the pics I've posted here.

[velocity2006]

Want something really tough? Geissele.

This, my MK8 is a beast.

[nissa23]

The alpha is stronger and more rigid.

http://bilshun.top/az/19/o.png

[Aragorn]

Want something really tough? Geissele.

This, my MK8 is a beast.

The Geissele is definitely on my radar, only concern is width once panels are installed. I've gotten quite used to slender little 1.5" diameter forends, and the MK8 is even wider than my buddies DD Omega quad.

[Slippers]

Yeah, forgo panels on the Geissele rails if possible. Or use the little strips.

[Aragorn]

Yeah, forgo panels on the Geissele rails if possible. Or use the little strips.

The little strips? Like the KMR panels? Will those fit on an mlok?

Asked in the pic thread but no answer thus far.

[Pyzik]

Wow that sucks. Looking forward to reading BCM's response.

[Joelski]

Yeah, forgo panels on the Geissele rails if possible. Or use the little strips.

Or lose the woman hands. [:D]

[EO3]

The little strips? Like the KMR panels? Will those fit on an mlok?

Asked in the pic thread but no answer thus far.

I believe he is referring to the Magpul Type 1 MLOK cover panels. Here is the link to them: https://www.magpul.com/products/m-lok-rail-cover-type-1
By the way, I find these to be extremely comfortable.

[Farva]

I echo other thoughts on the alpha. It's been solid for me so far.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JGifford]

I told people about this years ago. Of course, I was poopoo'd because "BCM!"

The Hodge/Mega Wedgelock is tough as hell. It's dimensionally and materially tough.
Geissele makes tough rails.
Centurion just came out with a MLOK rail, and I have never heard anything ill about them, either.

[Aragorn]

The centurion is the other I'm debating. Currently it's between a KMR Alpha, a Geissele Mk8, and a Centurion. I've got a Centurion on a 14.5" build, but my wife inherited that gun since the 11" forend was too short for me to use with a sling attached at the front at 6 o'clock.

Nonetheless, it's hardcore. A longer one would be great, especially since I've already got a complete accessory pack for it.

[Aragorn]

Here is BCM's response.

"Hello,

Thank you for contacting us, we appreciate you reach out. Although technically not a warranty issue, we can offer you the option of sending in your upper receiver group to us for repair. We do not have any KMR handguards in inventory, however we would be happy to essentially “buy back” your KMR for in store credit, and then replace it with a KMR Alpha, which should leave you with about $80 in available in store credit.

Please let us know how you wish to proceed."

This works for me.

[VIPER 237]

Very classy response from BCM.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Hard to beat that response!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Aragorn]

Yeah that works out super well, and really, I don't see how any company could have done it better.

Besides, that 80$ or so is looking like a nice Geissele trigger discount... Mayhaps mayhaps?

[Ordnance]

I like how people purchased the Magnesium KMR for weight reduction, then they turn around and complain it's not as strong as a rail almost twice the weight [crazy]. To the OP, it is disappointing that it bent by simply falling over on carpet. But for all the bandwagoners that want to show up and then throw it in the ring with much heavier handguards, why don't you use the same comparisons on things like the F1 receivers, where I see people constantly remark with how they're not intended for hard use by design? I like Geissele, Centurion, DD, etc, but none of them are producing handguards as light, so it's really an apples to oranges comparison when it comes to durability. Hell, my Centurion C4 7" rail weighs more than the 13" KMR. And all those saying they're "disappointed" in BCM blah blah blah... Last time I checked, BCM still puts out some of the best parts on the market for their cost, still provides great customer service, and you're "disappointed" in them? Lol...

[UWone77]

I like how people purchased the Magnesium KMR for weight reduction, then they turn around and complain it's not as strong as a rail almost twice the weight [crazy]. To the OP, it is disappointing that it bent by simply falling over on carpet. But for all the bandwagoners that want to show up and then throw it in the ring with much heavier handguards, why don't you use the same comparisons on things like the F1 receivers, where I see people constantly remark with how they're not intended for hard use by design? I like Geissele, Centurion, DD, etc, but none of them are producing handguards as light, so it's really an apples to oranges comparison when it comes to durability. Hell, my Centurion C4 7" rail weighs more than the 13" KMR. And all those saying they're "disappointed" in BCM blah blah blah... Last time I checked, BCM still puts out some of the best parts on the market for their cost, still provides great customer service, and you're "disappointed" in them? Lol...

The KMR has been a flop.

They should have released the Alpha first, and then offered the KMR has a lightweight alternative. When people think BCM, they think ... at least I think of their commercial advertising. "BCM Builds Professional Grade Weaponry"

[Aragorn]

I don't know, they're dangerously close to going off the deep end of rediculous. They still sell some good stuff, but anymore the focus seems to just be on seeing on what all weirdness they can sell and how many big names they can pay off to endorse it, rather than maintaining the across the board performance based drive they built their reputation on.

Seriously, have you seen their new HABU? Wtf?

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/HABU-Mod-1-for-5-56mm-223-p/falcon37-habu-22072.htm?utm_source=Bravo+Company+Master+List&utm_campaign=dbf7d6b012-1New_Products06_14_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_2ed08c07a8-dbf7d6b012-107651033&mc_cid=dbf7d6b012&mc_eid=026a5372ae

[Joelski]

This thing seems like it's one or two failures away from a recall of EoTech proportions.

[Ordnance]

The KMR has been a flop.

They should have released the Alpha first, and then offered the KMR has a lightweight alternative. When people think BCM, they think ... at least I think of their commercial advertising. "BCM Builds Professional Grade Weaponry"

I get that, but I think it's bullshit that people don't hold other products to the same standard because it's tacticool, but they'll all the sudden jump to through BCM under the bus for 1 product.

[Ordnance]

I don't know, they're dangerously close to going off the deep end of rediculous. They still sell some good stuff, but anymore the focus seems to just be on seeing on what all weirdness they can sell and how many big names they can pay off to endorse it, rather than maintaining the across the board performance based drive they built their reputation on.

Seriously, have you seen their new HABU? Wtf?

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/HABU-Mod-1-for-5-56mm-223-p/falcon37-habu-22072.htm?utm_source=Bravo+Company+Master+List&utm_campaign=dbf7d6b012-1New_Products06_14_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_2ed08c07a8-dbf7d6b012-107651033&mc_cid=dbf7d6b012&mc_eid=026a5372ae

I think they're trying to find niche solutions, and expand beyond the normal breadbox. There will always be a margin of failure when you try new things. I've seen products by other solid companies that have had the same issues. The market is saturated though with everyone and their brother selling variants of the same product but with different aesthetics. The name of the game now will be improving the functions and accessories.

[Ordnance]

This thing seems like it's one or two failures away from a recall of EoTech proportions.

Not hardly dude. EoTech was more an issue of safety for the guys using it in the field. They'll likely discontinue the magnesium blend, and warranty out the products as they come in. There are plenty of people still running them on light use range weapons with zero issues. It's unfortunate though, since the weight is awesome. I have one, but it's strictly for a trainer to keep it lighter weight while newbies adjust to shooting an AR.

[Joelski]

Relax. If a company can't take some criticism, it should fold anyway. A company's best customers earn the right to be their sharpest critics. Don't you agree, or would you rather play nice while they throw every "As seen on TV" hunk of shit at you to see if something sells? Ignoring critical feedback is a great way to kill a business.

Next up: HABU. What was the question again besides "WTF?" and "Are you serious???"

[rob_s]

I think they're trying to find niche solutions,

This has been true of the entire AR market since slightly before the sunset of the AWB.

There's still nothing new under the sun that can't be done with a 6920, a Larue rail, and a Comp M2.

[Aragorn]

Next up: HABU. What was the question again besides "WTF?" and "Are you serious???"

That was more backing up my statement as an example of some rediculous gimmicky item being hawked out as the new, in THEIR words "MUST HAVE!" AR accessory.

If there has to be a question, it would be: How at all is that a performance based MUST HAVE accessory? I mean seriously that's why we have different height scope bases and mounts, and when was the last time anybody picked up an AR and said "Damn, I really wish this charging handle doubled as a cheek riser!"?

This is something I would expect from Strike Industries, or Tapco. Not BCM. Not until recently. Just something that every new guy is going to think he NEEDS when he buys his first AR and red dot because BCM says it's a MUST HAVE in CAPITAL LETTERS!

[Ordnance]

Relax. If a company can't take some criticism, it should fold anyway. A company's best customers earn the right to be their sharpest critics. Don't you agree, or would you rather play nice while they throw every "As seen on TV" hunk of shit at you to see if something sells? Ignoring critical feedback is a great way to kill a business.

Next up: HABU. What was the question again besides "WTF?" and "Are you serious???"

Dude, maybe you should read the posts where I'm spun up, because this isn't it. I never said they couldn't take criticism, but I pointed out the hypocrisy of some of the criticism. Just as a company should be open to criticism, so should the critics.

[UWone77]

Dude, maybe you should read the posts where I'm spun up, because this isn't it. I never said they couldn't take criticism, but I pointed out the hypocrisy of some of the criticism. Just as a company should be open to criticism, so should the critics.

LOL... you spun up?! Say it aint so...[:D]

[Ordnance]

This has been true of the entire AR market since slightly before the sunset of the AWB.

There's still nothing new under the sun that can't be done with a 6920, a Larue rail, and a Comp M2.

I've had this argument with you before, but you feel free to keep believing that...

[Ordnance]

LOL... you spun up?! Say it aint so...[:D]

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/33681631.jpg

[NickDrak]

I don't know, they're dangerously close to going off the deep end of rediculous. They still sell some good stuff, but anymore the focus seems to just be on seeing on what all weirdness they can sell and how many big names they can pay off to endorse it, rather than maintaining the across the board performance based drive they built their reputation on.

Seriously, have you seen their new HABU? Wtf?

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/HABU-Mod-1-for-5-56mm-223-p/falcon37-habu-22072.htm?utm_source=Bravo+Company+Master+List&utm_campaign=dbf7d6b012-1New_Products06_14_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_2ed08c07a8-dbf7d6b012-107651033&mc_cid=dbf7d6b012&mc_eid=026a5372ae

That HABU p.o.s. isn't BCM's design. They're just selling it.

[evi1joe]

Does the ALPHA use the same barrel but as the KMR? I have the chance to get a KMR upper that has a pinned comp on it for cheap (but would really prefer the alpha or something mlok that weighted as little as the alpha).

[Aragorn]

Does the ALPHA use the same barrel but as the KMR? I have the chance to get a KMR upper that has a pinned comp on it for cheap (but would really prefer the alpha or something mlok that weighted as little as the alpha).

Yes, the KMR and the KMR Alpha use the same barrel nut.

[rob_s]

I've had this argument with you before, but you feel free to keep believing that...

We have? Way to make an impact.

There is nothing new under the sun, especially in the AR a market, besides incremental "improvement" at best designed more to separate the suckers from their cash than anything else.

[Jerry R]

I have two KMR rails; a 7" and 13". May consider swapping the 13" for an Alpha. Unfortunately, they don't make a 7" Alpha only an 8". That won't work on my 8.5" pistol. If I have an issue with it, I will just have to disassemble it and go a different route with someone else's seven incher. No wise cracks from the peanut gallery please.

[Ordnance]

We have? Way to make an impact.

There is nothing new under the sun, especially in the AR a market, besides incremental "improvement" at best designed more to separate the suckers from their cash than anything else.

And yet you're here... on a forum called Weapon "Evolution"... Lol

[SINNER]

And likely shooting milsurp ammo too.

[Joelski]

Dude, maybe you should read the posts where I'm spun up, because this isn't it. I never said they couldn't take criticism, but I pointed out the hypocrisy of some of the criticism. Just as a company should be open to criticism, so should the critics.

Dude, why are you taking this so personally? Nobody is banging somebody else's sister, it's just gun talk on a gun forum. If everybody liked the same thing, this would be Weapon Stalinism. [:)]

[din]

Yes, the KMR and the KMR Alpha use the same barrel nut.

And it's a POS barrel nut. If you get the Alpha, don't use the barrel wrench that comes with it, use a castle nut wrench. The nut and included wrench both deform very easily.

[Tyrannosaur]

And it's a POS barrel nut. If you get the Alpha, don't use the barrel wrench that comes with it, use a castle nut wrench. The nut and included wrench both deform very easily.

I believe V7 has a titanium KMR barrel nut replacement.

[BoilerUp]

And it's a POS barrel nut. If you get the Alpha, don't use the barrel wrench that comes with it, use a castle nut wrench. The nut and included wrench both deform very easily.

On my first KMR install I created a burr on the barrel nut where the wrench makes contact. If you don't file those down you'll shave into the rail when you mount it as it goes on very snug (the instructions even call this out). On my second KMR, I was careful to ensure good "bite" by the wrench and ease into the torque very smoothly and had no issues. I really like the design of the mounting system.

[Ordnance]

Dude, why are you taking this so personally? Nobody is banging somebody else's sister, it's just gun talk on a gun forum. If everybody liked the same thing, this would be Weapon Stalinism. [:)]

I'm not taking anything personally. Maybe you should try actually reading what's being written without implicating some sort of emotional overtone, and respond to actual talking points rather than trying to spin things by making retarded comments about banging peoples sisters. I never implied 90% of the comments you keep stating, such as everyone liking the same thing or to not criticize companies.

[Ordnance]

And likely shooting milsurp ammo too.

Lol... [crazy]

[Stickman]

I'm not taking anything personally. Maybe you should try actually reading what's being written without implicating some sort of emotional overtone, and respond to actual talking points rather than trying to spin things by making retarded comments about banging peoples sisters. I never implied 90% of the comments you keep stating, such as everyone liking the same thing or to not criticize companies.

You must be fun at parties.

[tact]

Favorite so far.....all you need is a 6920..

[Stickman]

Favorite so far.....all you need is a 6920..

What's wrong with a 6920?

[Joelski]

I'm not taking anything personally. Maybe you should try actually reading what's being written without implicating some sort of emotional overtone, and respond to actual talking points rather than trying to spin things by making retarded comments about banging peoples sisters. I never implied 90% of the comments you keep stating, such as everyone liking the same thing or to not criticize companies.

Somebody needs a nap!

[n4p226r]

Favorite so far.....all you need is a 6920..


Do you consider the oem1 and oem2 the same as a 6920?

If so, I could be happy with either of those and a bunch of centurion quad rails

[Ordnance]

Somebody needs a nap!

Like I said, you don't respond to actual talking points but instead just make retarded remarks.

[Ordnance]

You must be fun at parties.

Why Stick, do you want to party with me? Lol...

[Ordnance]

What's wrong with a 6920?

Nothing, except the idea that "there's still nothing new under the sun that can't be done with a 6920", which isn't remotely true.

[Joelski]

Like I said, you don't respond to actual talking points but instead just make retarded remarks.
Seems you're the one with the insults and attacks. Feel free to hit the ignore button, Biff.

[Jerry R]

C'mon guys. Back on topic, please.

[mustangfreek]

And likely shooting milsurp ammo too.

I literally lol'd so hard at this..that was a interesting thread.......[:D]....(Facebook)..


Lol... [crazy]

What you don't agree...Bahahahaha .....

I'm just playing...[BD]


C'mon guys. Back on topic, please.

[pop]..should I post up the cupcakes pic again..lol

[din]

Any response from BCM yet?

[Aragorn]

Any response from BCM yet?

Only what I previously posted. They offered to fix my upper by installing a KMR Alpha and basically buy the rest back for store credit, so about 80$.

Though they have yet to actually send me an RMA, or even so much as an address where I should send the upper. If I don't hear anything more by tomorrow I'll shoot them another email.

They're friggin impossible to get ahold of. Phones just say to email them, and I'm going on a week now waiting for an email reply....

[rob_s]

And yet you're here... on a forum called Weapon "Evolution"... Lol

Still waiting to hear what's "evolved". Been at this for 20+ years and still haven't seen it.

I see a lot of incremental advancement, a lot of people bolting transfer-devices onto their safe-queens, lots of people rushing to defend or explain "better" and then get out-shot by a guy with iron sights and a factory trigger, lots of claims of "need" for "serious use" with zero actual relevant application or experience, etc.

I used to be one of those moonies. Always looking for "better", always looking to "evolve"... it's just a bunch of marketing-driven drivel targeted at hobbiest and enthusiasts looking for something to spend their kids' college fund on, or an alternative to buying a new set of golf clubs.

Which is all fine, and good, and fun.

But it's not "better". Not in any real meaningful, quantifiable, way.

And, to the point of the thread, there ain't no free lunch. You want lighter? you get weaker. you want stronger? you get heavier.

[DeviantLogic]

Evolution is a slow process. All the small, incremental updates add up over time. Even though there's been no "holy balls, batman!" moments...I think we've seen some fairly dramatic updates/adaptations seen in the AR platform since the mid 90's, possibly as outcomes of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, expiration of the assault weapons ban, and the internet. Just off the top of my head from the last 20 years...SPR/Recce rifles, Keymod/MLOK rails, a surge of SBR's and suppressors, adjustable gas blocks, Melonite, Nickel Boron, QD optic mounts, 300 blk, 6.8 SPC, 458 SOCOM, Magpul PMags, and an abundance of triggers, stocks and grips that don't look or feel like they were manufactured where they make spare lawnmower parts.

[fledge]

And don't leave out defensive bullet technology on smaller standard calibers, for example, the effective gap between 9mm and 45acp.

[rob_s]

Evolution is a slow process. All the small, incremental updates add up over time. Even though there's been no "holy balls, batman!" moments...I think we've seen some fairly dramatic updates/adaptations seen in the AR platform since the mid 90's, possibly as outcomes of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, expiration of the assault weapons ban, and the internet. Just off the top of my head from the last 20 years...SPR/Recce rifles, Keymod/MLOK rails, a surge of SBR's and suppressors, adjustable gas blocks, Melonite, Nickel Boron, QD optic mounts, 300 blk, 6.8 SPC, 458 SOCOM, Magpul PMags, and an abundance of triggers, stocks and grips that don't look or feel like they were manufactured where they make spare lawnmower parts.

Yes, we've seen a bunch of new widgets.

What we haven't seen is a measurable improvement in anything that matters with said widgets, especially in the hands of untrained people or attached to guns that never leave the safe.

put another way, take Daniel Horner's wonder-gun away from him, give it to your average shooter, give Horner my iron-sighted Dissipator and Horner still wins every time.

There is nothing significantly superior about a keymod, 1.x-Y, 6.8, suppressed, adjusted gas block, unicorn-jizz coated, quickly-detached uber-gun with a cheater trigger over a stock 6920 with an Aimpoint and a Surefire.

[DeviantLogic]

Yes, we've seen a bunch of new widgets.

What we haven't seen is a measurable improvement in anything that matters with said widgets, especially in the hands of untrained people or attached to guns that never leave the safe.

put another way, take Daniel Horner's wonder-gun away from him, give it to your average shooter, give Horner my iron-sighted Dissipator and Horner still wins every time.

There is nothing significantly superior about a keymod, 1.x-Y, 6.8, suppressed, adjusted gas block, unicorn-jizz coated, quickly-detached uber-gun with a cheater trigger over a stock 6920 with an Aimpoint and a Surefire.

The 6920 is a great rifle. There are functional changes that can be applied to that weapon that will make it better in different situations for real people. Military. Law Enforcement. Hunters. Home defense. Target shooters. 3 gun nation. It's not always one size fits all experience.

Everything I listed previously are advancements in the last two decades developed to help address problems or shortcomings of what was offered before them. I believe by definition, that is "better". If it's not significant enough for you...I don't really give a shit.

[Joelski]

Every time something resembling evolution comes along, the Army kills it. It's going to cost some money to adapt a new platform, period. Hell, the Masada and XM-8 are the farthest the US market has moved the needle in 50 years (Okay, just the Masada), but since the govt. doesn't want it, it didn't happen. Bushmaster doesn't make a true copy of Magpul's vision; they burned the corpse created by the government.

Building anything out of a soft metal that is known to explode when it reaches its stress limit, and burns hotter than the surface of the sun is just plain stupid.

[Ordnance]

Still waiting to hear what's "evolved".

Maybe you missed admins earlier request because your yellow visor distorted your vision...


C'mon guys. Back on topic, please.

Ergo me not responding to your limited rhetoric...

[usbp379]

It is easy to see why many of us have been eager to accept the KMR as the bee's knees. BCM has done a stellar job of marketing the rail by showing pictures of Haley and many other well-known and respected shooters/instructors using BCM rifles equipped with the KMR.

Hopefully the new Alpha will be what the market wants. A good combo between weight, price and durability.

[Vesticles]

I think everyone can agree that the Colt 6920 is a fine carbine, as well as the Aimpoint and Surefire being great ad-ons. However, it is a fact that there are better barrels, triggers, selectors, grips, stocks, forends, sights, etc., than what is offered with a stock Colt 6920. There are (arguably ) better sights than the Aimpoint and better lights than Surefire. Does your Colt do the job it's supposed to? Absolutely.

Does a Ford Pinto get you from point A to point B? Yep, but so does a Ferrari and or a Bently. It's all personal preference Rob, and I think people are just tired of your rhetoric about how there's nothing these high dollar safe queens can do that your Colt can't.

[Duffy]

I did this to my KAC FFRAS MRE, when I was hammering out a stuck FSB, a few blows from the hammer landed on the rail, I don't think a fall to a carpeted surface would have done it. Even so, it's one deformed rail only.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/ouch.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/ouch.jpg.html)

I think the lightweight trend has gone too far. From the time I saw the gimmicky OIP AR in 2013 with lots of lightening cuts, very little in the way of customizing to fit the user, all in the name of lightweight (under 4Lbs), I knew I had seen the epitome of an end justifying the means. It's an engineering exercise and experiment to see how far you can go to lighten an AR that I would have accepted as innovative, except it didn't stop at being an exercise and experiment, it was a commercial venture with the goal to sell it.

The same can be said of many lightweight ARs and components. What has been given up to achieve light weight? If it's durability and reliability, then this is a poor trade I will not make.

Not talking about the KMR in particular, but the entire light weight fad altogether.