Help me decide

[Joelski]

I'm looking to buy s better 1-4x scope and am looking at the Leupold VXR-Patrol and the Steiner P4Xi. This will be going on a 14.5" upper, and not going over 400 yards, mostly for plinking purposes. Thoughts?

[Slippers]

What's your budget? I really like the Trijicon Accupower 1-4 compared to both of those, having tried all three.

[alamo5000]

I use the vortex viper and I like it. 400 yards is a snap. It all depends on you though. Are you adjusting your turrets or do you want something else with a built in drop compensator?

On the long end of that range you are looking at 9 or 10 MOA drop so that is kind of on the cusp of where all that stuff matters. If you think you are primarily going to be inside of that range then having exposed turrets and MOA or MIL based scopes matter a lot less. 400 yards and beyond it starts to matter a whole lot.

For me I like to dial in my MOA and I have a strong preference for long shots so that really makes a big difference to me...but inside of the 400 yard mark (for a .223) and to me it matters a lot less if there are 1/4 or 1/2 MOA clicks or is it MOA based or Mil based or all that other stuff.

[BoilerUp]

I didn't realize Steiner had brought a lower price 1-4x24 to the market. That should be an interesting and reasonable choice, although I'm not that excited about the reticle.

I can't get excited about the VX-R patrol. I'm not a fan of the reticle or the lack of true 1x. Otherwise, the glass is good and Leupold's CS is a selling point.

Around this price point, though, I keep coming back to the Viper PST. The Trij is worth looking at, too, but for a few bills more.

The new Sig Tango 4 is worth a look, too.

But to Alamo's point, exposed turrets on a 4x is kind of like teets on a boar.

[cjd3]

I use the vortex viper and I like it. 400 yards is a snap. It all depends on you though. Are you adjusting your turrets or do you want something else with a built in drop compensator?

On the long end of that range you are looking at 9 or 10 MOA drop so that is kind of on the cusp of where all that stuff matters. If you think you are primarily going to be inside of that range then having exposed turrets and MOA or MIL based scopes matter a lot less. 400 yards and beyond it starts to matter a whole lot.
Any comparison to the Strike Eagle? Without thread jacking, I'd like to know if the glass is worth it rather than the x6.

[alamo5000]

Any comparison to the Strike Eagle? Without thread jacking, I'd like to know if the glass is worth it rather than the x6.

I have no idea. I have never touched a strike eagle. I have no comment on the actual 'glass' because I simply don't know and can't offer a valid opinion.

Other than that though it's going to depend on the design you want and what kind of shooting you want to do.

For me I like the design of the viper because of what I do. I like to take that particular rifle out to pretty far distances (for an AR). I can reliably hit 800 yards. But there is a whole lot more involved in shooting out far. Being able to dial up 34moa or 38moa or whatever is critical. And if its 50 degrees outside vs 90 degrees outside that makes a huge difference if you hit or don't hit. All other things being equal and just a temp change like that means at 800 yards on a 90 degree day its 35.5 moa whereas on a 50 degree day 38.5 moa. You are look at more than a 3moa difference just based on temperature alone. So roughly 24 inches in variance at that distance.

On the other hand the strike eagle is a BDC concept so really it's comparing apples to oranges. But even though the strike eagle is 6x vs 4x it wouldn't work for me because it's just 'roughly' on (depending on ammo and environment) and it only goes to 600 yards. It's not really built for bipod shooting out to whatever distance. I mean yeah it will work but it's not the best thing for the job for what I like to do.

I don't think you need to worry about the glass as much as you need to worry about what kind of shooting you plan to do.

[DeviantLogic]

I got to play with some of the new Sig scopes about a month ago and I honestly favored them a little more than the Viper PST's I've handled. Was looking at the 3-12 and 4-16 though, not the 1-4's.

[alamo5000]

I got to play with some of the new Sig scopes about a month ago and I honestly favored them a little more than the Viper PST's I've handled. Was looking at the 3-12 and 4-16 though, not the 1-4's.

Some of the vipers are not everything to everybody for sure. My personal opinion on scopes in general the farther you go out the more demand is placed on the optic. I don't know if you've tried eyeing down a 24" target at 1,400 yards or more but the subtensions on the scope matter, the amount of adjustment matters, the quality of the glass matters... everything matters. The mirage at those ranges can get stupid. I took a friend's gun out and we maxed out a viper and it wouldn't get anywhere near where we needed it to be.

On the other hand for optics that are going be used in closer quarters such as within 400 yards you still want something good but the type of demands are completely different.

If I am running a 3 gun course shouldering shots out to 4 or 500 yards that's entirely different than doing other types of shooting. Picking the scope that matches your game narrows it down a lot for me.

If I had a billion dollars I would own so much glass it would be stupid. But I don't have that kind of dough to toss around.

[Joelski]

Will, I'd like to keep the price tag at $600 or less for this one. It's going on my Recce for now, but eventually, I'll get something in the 800 to 1,200 yard range as my ability comes along. The Viper is a consideration I neglected to include in my OP. Of course it's on my list as well.

[Slippers]

The reason I avoid the Viper PST is that the reticle is awful. In my opinion it's not fast, nor is it precise. It doesn't do anything well. At least they do offer a capped turret version. I would honestly take a Burris MTAC 1-4 over the Viper PST.

The strike eagle is dirt cheap. It's also pretty long. The reticle is designed more for close range. The QC is questionable. Dstrb got one that had the logos all tilted at weird angles, and doubled up on one side. If that got through QC, what can you expect from the internals that aren't visible? Optically it seemed ok, with some bug-eye distortion at 1x (which is pretty common in variables, especially under $500). For the price I suppose the flaws are acceptable.

I think the Trijicon accupower is a little too expensive at retail, but the glass is good, it's lightweight, and there are decent reticle choices. I really liked it while I had it, but my business partner bought mine when I got a great deal on a Razor 1-6.

Also, if you care at all about daylight bright illumination, pretty much the only scopes that offer this are Leupold's in the sub-$1000 range.

It's always a gamble buying optics. Expensive, and you don't know if you like it until you mount it up and use them a bit.

[fledge]

Joelski, I have an used, 9/10 condition accupower I can sell you within your budget. Green BDC reticle. I can give you a WEVO price on it and send some pics. PM me if you're interested.

[Joelski]

PM sent!

[EO3]

I was going to recommend the AccuPower as well. You can pick one up brand new for about $650.

[BoilerUp]

The reason I avoid the Viper PST is that the reticle is awful. In my opinion it's not fast, nor is it precise. It doesn't do anything well. At least they do offer a capped turret version. I would honestly take a Burris MTAC 1-4 over the Viper PST.

To each their own, but I really like TMCQ reticle on the PST. I find the 1 MOA center dot allows me to be very precise and the 18 MOA center ring allows for pretty quick pick-up (it's just a little hard for me to focus on the ring instead of the center dot which is too small to be fast). Burris' "Ballist AR" reticle seems similar, but I really don't care for Burris' "Ballistic CQ" reticle. The outer ring is too thick. The center dot on both is much thicker than the PST so aren't as precise.

[Joelski]

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af93/Joelski144/ARs%20and%20Pistols/RA-Recce/20160628_212058_1.jpg~original

[Joelski]

So, the Steiner is sent back and the Trijicon is on its way. Why, lord.... Why can't I just listen the first time???

[SINNER]

I missed you were going with the Steiner. I am a big fan of their German glass. But from what I've heard the American stuff is not even close to the same. Beretta owns both Burris and Steiner and the USA stuff is coming out of the Burris factory.

[Joelski]

I'm pretty big on buy american, skip china. From what I'd seen of the new Steiner, it looked good, but I caught the bad reviews after it got here and I don't even remember jarring it in the slightest. Needless to say, I'm pretty disappointed and admit thatI should have listened. Onward and upward. I hope it gets here by the weekend; I have a 400 yard field waiting, along with some groundhogs that need a trim. Sunday is shaping up to be a sunny and cooler with 100% chance of lead precipitation!

[SINNER]

Honestly if it doesn't say Germany it's not a Steiner as far as I'm concerned.


1452

[Joelski]

Rub it in...

The Trijicon showed up today. The build quality is amazing. I didn't think the difference would be this pronounced. Such an elegant, understated package. I'll let you know when I get done admiring the box. [:D]