Is it worth it? (BCG)

[alamo5000]

I found this on the website for JP Bolts:

Whether we want to admit it or not, the good old Mil-spec bolt has had a good run, but it's long past its retirement age, and the JP EnhancedBolt™ is there to pick up where it left off.

Material matters, and the Carpenter 158 steel of the standard Mil-spec bolt is suboptimal for such a high-load application leading to a life expectancy of only about 6,000 rounds. In fact, standard bolts will start to show stress cracks on the locking lugs adjacent to the extractor cut after only 3,000 rounds while cracking at the cam pin hole and weak extractor spring tension only add to the problems of the Mil-spec bolt. Fine enough for its time, the material used in these standard bolts is simply not the best choice by today's standards.

The SAE 9310 of the JP EnhancedBolt™ is a superior steel alloy in virtually every way compared to the C-158, whether in its resistance to structural failure or life expectancy, both of which far exceeding the Mil-spec. Just as with the transmission gears for Formula 1 racers which are also made from 9310, the operational demands of a bolt assembly are ideally suited to this state-of-the-art material, with actual full-auto endurance torture tests prove it.

Beyond its material advantages, the design of the JP EnhancedBolt™ boasts many other advantages, including the addition of material around the cam pin hole to eliminate this inherent weak point of the bolt design itself. Each bolt also comes assembled with our proprietary Enhanced Ejector, Enhanced Extractor (.308 and Grendel) and Enhanced Gas Rings for improvements in every subcomponent. Yet even with these advanced components, all EnhancedBolts™ (excepting our .308 high pressure model, for obvious reasons) are fully compatible with the readily available Mil-spec subcomponents, including a standard configuration extractor—all the benefits of a state-of-the-art proprietary platform with none of the inconvenience.

And so goes the old argument. I know we have discussed it before but to me it seems like it could have something to it. Better materials could mean more life of a standard wear out part. "Carpenter steel vs the new stuff"...

I've sold some camera equipment (lenses) that I don't use so I might take advantage of a 4th of July sale or possibly just wait for something I really like later on...

I do believe strongly that one can easily over pay for things that show no material improvement over previous models. I am simply not sure who or what to believe half the time and odds are I won't be burning anything up myself.

I currently run the phosphate RA regular old BCG...and there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with it. I actually like it. I would buy a couple of those but they don't have em in stock. That said I am kind of curious to try out something new (Fathom, Griffin, and possibly some others).

I am kind of torn of what I should do... I don't want to buy any cheap out of spec shit and I want something that will compliment the look of my guns, but I don't want to over pay for fluff either.

Is it true what JP says in their ad (above) about the 6000 round life? Some of you guys that shoot the holy crap out of things over a long period of time... what's your experience?

[Aragorn]

Man, I don't even know. That description has been on their website for years. As for the materiel, the majority of what I run and have ran are C-158 bolts, usually either NiB or phosphate. I've yet to personally break a bolt, but I have been present to see one shear a lug right next to the extractor.

Unfortunately... I can't remember the manufacturer or materiel in the bolt that failed.

I do have a Sharps Relia-bolt, which is S7, but it doesn't have enough rounds on it yet for me to give it a solid thumbs up or down yet.

Umbrella swears up and down that 9310 is inferior to C-158, but I've never heard of a Fathom BCG having a bolt failure, and it's made of 9310 also.

[alamo5000]

Man, I don't even know. That description has been on their website for years....

Umbrella swears up and down that 9310 is inferior to C-158, but I've never heard of a Fathom BCG having a bolt failure, and it's made of 9310 also.

Exactly. This is what I see as well. What to believe? What's the deal?

I see several that are from reputable companies that make em out of other stuff so what to do?

[Aragorn]

Could always buy a V7. They have an unconditional warranty against bolt failure regardless of round count.

[Aragorn]

Could always buy a V7. They have an unconditional warranty against bolt failure regardless of round count.

Actually, just double checked myself, and check this out. Their lifetime warranty is only on their phosphate BCG's, which have a C-158 bolt. Their NiB versions have a 9310 bolt but don't list having the same warranty.

[alamo5000]

Could always buy a V7. They have an unconditional warranty against bolt failure regardless of round count.

$190 bucks. But sold out. I

The ones I have now are C158 and I got em on sale for like 110 bucks or something like that. Normally they are like $135.

Like I said though the cost I don't mind paying a little more but it does seem like there is a big fight about it right now.

Griffin makes one I like... Fathom does...this is why I am soliciting opinions here.

[din]

If you're worried about it, stick with a known quantity. Centurion's bolts are C-158 and $110, they just don't have any "Gee Whiz!" coatings.

[alamo5000]

If you're worried about it, stick with a known quantity. Centurion's bolts are C-158 and $110, they just don't have any "Gee Whiz!" coatings.

If I was going to buy some kind of cheap Anderson-like whatever I might be worried about it being in spec or breaking. What I am talking about is long term use...over time stuff wears out and stuff breaks. Even 'carpenter steel' might wear out. I just want to have spares. But if these new metals are better then why not try?

I am not into gee whiz coatings and all that. Makes little to no difference to me. As long as it's black I am fine with it. [:D]

I am sure the chrome/nickel/gold colors are fantastic but personally I'm not a fan of some of those things (looks wise) but it depends largely on the overall rifle and who's and what you are talking about.

I am just not so sure a $300 BCG is going to be worth it for me. Really though it comes down to money and quality. Bang for the buck while still having a certain 'bad ass' look to it.

What I might do is pick up a Griffin BCG while it's on sale and wait and get a different kind later on. Fathom obviously is on the short list, and if they are going to do a WEVO marked one I might jump on that. Otherwise I might just get one of theirs.

What I don't get though is CMT Tactical... their BCG's are $110 bucks with free shipping (good luck finding them in stock).

Then you have all the whiz bangery stuff that I am not sure about. $75 bucks to $300 bucks is the price range and it hurts my brain trying to figure out why and a lot of those come from good companies. Somewhere along that line (for me) there might be some bullshit factor.

That said if these new metals really do last longer then I don't have a problem with that. The companies are obviously very reputable but they are all over the map as far as what they offer and what they are saying. Two good companies both contradicting each other.

[alamo5000]

Actually, just double checked myself, and check this out. Their lifetime warranty is only on their phosphate BCG's, which have a C-158 bolt. Their NiB versions have a 9310 bolt but don't list having the same warranty.

That's interesting.

See.

I am not all that concerned that I am going to run the thing to death but at the same time it gives me pause as to where my money goes.

The business of BCG's is kind of all over the place.

[alamo5000]

Centurion's bolts are C-158 and $110, they just don't have any "Gee Whiz!" coatings.

That's an option as well.

Again, this is the kind of thing that I wonder about. How much of it is hype and how much of it is real.

A lot of it is fashion. I really don't know about all the other jive. They lose me in all the marketing claims.

[Joelski]

Tool steel is expensive because it eats mill bits in the manufacturing process. That's why you won't see much advancement-wise in BCG steels until machining gets cheaper. The other forces of heat and pressure contribute enough to the wear process that improved steel technology won't make much difference. I've seen reports of Bolts lasting 15k rounds, but I think that's just luck and an outlier rather than attributable to any kind of metal or coating. The going price for Nitride BCGs seems to be right around 200 bones; less on good sale weekends (like now). I do not yet shoot suppressed, nor am I fiddler with all the mechanics of reciprocation; if it works, I leave it the hell alone and go have fun. Pick the BCG you like best and get it and use it!

PS: I picked up an AXTS nitride BCG a while back from ROGTAC for a hell of a good price. Look around and you'll find the price you want to pay!

[DeviantLogic]

Stick with companies known for good quality BCG's and you should be fine. Fathom, BCM, LMT, and Colt should probably be on the short list. I don't think it's possible to compare bolts based on just the metal being used, as they can go through different treatments and processes to make them stronger/more reliable than their raw form...not to mention the quality control for everything.

[alamo5000]

So what does everyone think of the Griffin Armament BCG? Worth a shot?

I might pick up one of those and like I said later on get a Fathom. I really dig Fathom and I am not just saying that because they are here on WEVO. It's a plain old compliment.

[alamo5000]

I like the Griffin one because everything I touched from GA I have loved. Just saying. Call me a fanboy. Whatever. It's true.

I like the logo on it and I think it will compliment my gun quite nicely.

I have never known of anything GA puts out to be shoddy at all, and as a general rule they have clearly passed my 'no assholes rule'. Generally speaking they have been good guys to me.

So I figure it will be fine... and I won't be buying some POS.

[DeviantLogic]

So what does everyone think of the Griffin Armament BCG? Worth a shot?

I might pick up one of those and like I said later on get a Fathom. I really dig Fathom and I am not just saying that because they are here on WEVO. It's a plain old compliment.

Griffin puts out great products, but I haven't heard much about their BCG's (positive or negative). I've got Fathom, Lantac, and Colt BCG's. The Fathom enhanced BCG is my personal favorite.

[alamo5000]

Griffin puts out great products, but I haven't heard much about their BCG's (positive or negative). I've got Fathom, Lantac, and Colt BCG's. The Fathom enhanced BCG is my personal favorite.

We are here to share :) Why you like that one the best? My experience is limited to plain old carriers with nothing special.

[DeviantLogic]

We are here to share :) Why you like that one the best? My experience is limited to plain old carriers with nothing special.

I'm a fan of Melonite and NiB carriers. They clean up easy and are slick as snot when lubed. Could be my imagination, but I think like the E-BCG's run a little smoother over the standard BCG's.

[alamo5000]

I bit the bullet and got a GA BCG since they were on sale. If I would have waited until Monday it would have only saved me $4 bucks so I said what the hell...I will probably run it in my SBR and keep the RA one on the shelf for now and see what I like better.

Later on I will more than likely pick up a Fathom but having at least one spare BCG is a good deal.

I have gone on a little shopping spree here. Enough stuff to reload almost 5 cases of .223 75gr SBR loads, enough stuff for at least 4,000 more pistol rounds, a 300 series light and mount from Arisaka Defense, and now a BCG.

I just started a job on Thursday so I might need to lay off for a bit until some paychecks start rolling in. [BD]

[DeviantLogic]

Good deal man. Let us know how you like it. You've definitely got enough supplies to keep you busy for a while. :)

[JGifford]

Fathoms qpq milspec dimension carrier with a JP gas ring, Ken Elmore green extractor spring, and colt ejector spring, is my go to, and functions great.

[Mecha_Arms]

I bit the bullet and got a GA BCG since they were on sale. If I would have waited until Monday it would have only saved me $4 bucks so I said what the hell...I will probably run it in my SBR and keep the RA one on the shelf for now and see what I like better.

Later on I will more than likely pick up a Fathom but having at least one spare BCG is a good deal.

I have gone on a little shopping spree here. Enough stuff to reload almost 5 cases of .223 75gr SBR loads, enough stuff for at least 4,000 more pistol rounds, a 300 series light and mount from Arisaka Defense, and now a BCG.

I just started a job on Thursday so I might need to lay off for a bit until some paychecks start rolling in. [BD]

I've had my eye on that GA BCG as well. It'll be interesting to see how you like it.

The Fathom BCGs are awesome. I have both and like them a lot. Wish I wouldn't have missed the last group buy on them here.

[alamo5000]

I've had my eye on that GA BCG as well. It'll be interesting to see how you like it.

The Fathom BCGs are awesome. I have both and like them a lot. Wish I wouldn't have missed the last group buy on them here.

Its in the plans to get a Fathom BCG at some point. I will for sure give my impressions after I get to run it for a while.

Which two Fathom BCG do you have? The mil spec and the enhanced right? Between those two which one do you like better?

[Mecha_Arms]

Its in the plans to get a Fathom BCG at some point. I will for sure give my impressions after I get to run it for a while.

Which two Fathom BCG do you have? The mil spec and the enhanced right? Between those two which one do you like better?

That's right. I like the enhanced better, but that's mostly because it's the one that has had a lot more use. The mil spec is in a build that I don't take out too often.

The enhanced is often run suppressed and has given me no trouble (but I'm not one to never clean a rifle, especially running a suppressor).

[mustangfreek]

So where did you pick up the Griffin bcg on sale at?

[alamo5000]

So where did you pick up the Griffin bcg on sale at?

http://www.skdtac.com/Griffin-Armament-Enhanced-Mil-Spec-BCG-p/gfa.103.htm

Still in stock so it's 15% off.

[Joelski]

Sort of want, but can't justify a backup spare. I need to get off my ass and find a lower I like!

[alamo5000]

Sort of want, but can't justify a backup spare. I need to get off my ass and find a lower I like!

Why do you say that? If things go crazy up the road I don't want to have a rifle down paying some stupid prices.

Uwone actually nailed it... if things go crazy with people wanting lowers but can't find any bolts then what good is it?

I don't know if a bolt will ever break but one little extractor crack and it's down. Also too, I've wanted a couple of others for a while now. One backup for each gun. Next up for me is going to be a Fathom. I don't know if I want the Mil Spec or the enhanced but they are on the short list.

[Joelski]

I could spend everything I make on speculation that the same old crap will happen again, but I choose to like what I have and work on other things as well. I couldn't bring myself to take advantage of something like that anyway. Kind of like selling shit parts to people on forums; I don't do it.

[alamo5000]

I could spend everything I make on speculation that the same old crap will happen again, but I choose to like what I have and work on other things as well. I couldn't bring myself to take advantage of something like that anyway. Kind of like selling shit parts to people on forums; I don't do it.

Yeah I hear you. I am not planning on selling [:D] I just don't want to be stuck out.

My thing is I kept on spending cash on parts and not enough on ammo. Pretty soon I will have a stock of stuff for ammo. I still need to buy a bunch of pistol projectiles but then I will be good for a while.

Once my bank account recovers I have a whole list of stuff that I want to get.

[Joelski]

I wish I had the temperament to reload; it'd be a lot easier on the bank account. If you seem a little OCD, I am just as ADD. They didn't have that when I was a kid, I just played outdoors and stayed up til 2 am to get B's in math. With age, I've at least earned the ability to know myself well enough that I'd buy all that cool reloading stuff (literally all of the add-on stuff, too) only to use it a couple times and get bored and sell it at a horrendous loss. The same way I can't really stand shooting at ranges so I have some places I can go and shoot and not bother anybody, nor have to pick up spent brass.

[alamo5000]

I wish I had the temperament to reload; it'd be a lot easier on the bank account. If you seem a little OCD, I am just as ADD. They didn't have that when I was a kid, I just played outdoors and stayed up til 2 am to get B's in math. With age, I've at least earned the ability to know myself well enough that I'd buy all that cool reloading stuff (literally all of the add-on stuff, too) only to use it a couple times and get bored and sell it at a horrendous loss. The same way I can't really stand shooting at ranges so I have some places I can go and shoot and not bother anybody, nor have to pick up spent brass.

OCD? Who me?! [crazy] HAAAHA!!!

Part of the thing is I just have it ingrained in my DNA to figure out complicated stuff. If you have a corporation that sold 400 different products in 115 different countries using 78 different currencies and you wanted to know where they make their money on what and in which regions... I'm your guy. Give me the right information and I will track down Al Quaeda's money supply and even create a neat little chart so that they know who to drone strike.

I don't know if it's OCD or what...but I am just hard wired to ask questions. LOL.

If you're not reloading for extreme accuracy and all you want is practice ammo then reloading isn't bad at all. Even if you have some friends that have all the equipment then just go over a couple times and stock up. With a good progressive press you can churn out about 4-500 rounds per hour and you can do it a lot cheaper than buying ammo. Hell, even if guys split the money for the equipment you will save a ton. It's not bad at all. Seriously. A few cases of ammo in and you've paid for the equipment in relative savings.

I think the last time I shot anywhere public was maybe two years ago. In that regard I have a few good hook ups. That said just buy $200 bucks worth of once fired brass and after you go shooting just pick up what you can find.

[Aberration79]

The case prep station, mainly for cleaning primer pockets and cleaning up trimming, has changed my life LOL. Especially for plinking ammo. And I just use an RCBS Rock checker or whatever it's called. If I can enlist the kids to help with case prep and priming, I'll be in heaven.


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[alamo5000]

Here is another question for discussion... opinions welcome.

Between the Mil Spec Fathom and the Enhanced Fathom.... which one and why?

I see stuff on the Enhanced one about 'carrier tilt'... but isn't that primarily irrelevant if you are running a DI gun? I thought carrier tilt was a piston thing?

Again I realize at the end of the day it probably won't matter one way or another and both will work just fine... but I am wondering if there is any reason to go with the enhanced one under those circumstances?

[alamo5000]

The case prep station, mainly for cleaning primer pockets and cleaning up trimming, has changed my life LOL. Especially for plinking ammo. And I just use an RCBS Rock checker or whatever it's called. If I can enlist the kids to help with case prep and priming, I'll be in heaven.


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I don't have any kids to enlist but a automatic case prep station is on my short list of things to buy.

What kind of station are you using?

I see that Frankfort Arsenal case prep station and I keep on wanting one (unless I can find something better).

[mustangfreek]

http://www.skdtac.com/Griffin-Armament-Enhanced-Mil-Spec-BCG-p/gfa.103.htm

Still in stock so it's 15% off.

Been super busy, just seen this..looked like a good deal



The case prep station, mainly for cleaning primer pockets and cleaning up trimming, has changed my life LOL. Especially for plinking ammo. And I just use an RCBS Rock checker or whatever it's called. If I can enlist the kids to help with case prep and priming, I'll be in heaven.

My oldest takes an interest in reloading but so far no help..and I'm doing it all by hand no prep stations..etc..it's all good though but my fingers/hands hurt after a long session..

And Alamo OCD...ahahaha ,..understatement I think, and I'm the same but I think he beats me..[BD]


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[DeviantLogic]

Here is another question for discussion... opinions welcome.

Between the Mil Spec Fathom and the Enhanced Fathom.... which one and why?

I see stuff on the Enhanced one about 'carrier tilt'... but isn't that primarily irrelevant if you are running a DI gun? I thought carrier tilt was a piston thing?

Again I realize at the end of the day it probably won't matter one way or another and both will work just fine... but I am wondering if there is any reason to go with the enhanced one under those circumstances?

As I mentioned earlier...I think my enhanced BCG's run a little smoother than the mil-spec ones. Not an expert on why. Guy might be able to give more details on the design of the enhanced and any benefits it provides.

[Aberration79]

I don't have any kids to enlist but a automatic case prep station is on my short list of things to buy.

What kind of station are you using?

I see that Frankfort Arsenal case prep station and I keep on wanting one (unless I can find something better).

Im using the one from Lyman. Works great but it hasnt seen real heavy use yet.


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[DeviantLogic]

I've got the RCBS Trim Mate. Nothing to write home about. It does chamfering, deburring, and primer pocket cleanup like any of the other electrics. The chamfer and debur tools were replaced with lyman heads...the ones that come with the unit suck. For case trimming I've got one of the LE Wilson trimmers from Sinclair (link (http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/case-preparation/case-trimming/case-trimmers/stainless-ultimate-trimmer-prod39292.aspx))...not electric, but does a damn good job. I'm not reloading thousands of rounds at a time, so the setup works for me.

[alamo5000]

I am playing fast and loose with the credit card.... I said screw it and went ahead and bought a CMT BCG. I will still get a Fathom later on. I don't know when the CMT ones will ever be back in stock and the price is kind of right so why not try eh?

As for the other things on my list here is one:

1411

I want to buy a bunch more 9mm bullets and a bunch more brass as well.

I am thinking about getting about 6000 9mm bullets. (2000 124 grain and 4000 147 grain) but I might get more than that since it's so easy to reload.

I've also considered getting a progressive setup for reloading. A friend has one and I can go over there and use his so that might be a back burner thing for now. But he says he can get about 500 rounds per hour out of the deal. I might go over and make the holy living crap out of some 9mm rounds. In one afternoon I could easily make a few thousand rounds.

Geez man... I have a frickin' list going already... I haven't even cracked open these primers and powder yet but I am considering buying more still. (you never know)...

I am also kind of frothing over a CMT .308 set...of course I would need a Recce 7 to go with it.

I also need a .22 LR rifle with a threaded barrel. Haven't decided what yet though. Of course if I could find 2-3 cases of .22LR I would buy that up too. From now on when I buy a caliber I am getting enough ammo to last me a while to go with it.

I pretty much have my paychecks for the next year spent already. My list isn't even close to being done. [BD] That's just the stuff I've been talking about lately.