View Full Version : What Charging Handle ?
I'm in need of a new charging handle and was curious if anyone has any time behind an AXTS freedom bone or a Geissele super charging handle which are supposed to be good for suppressed sbr's ?
I will be running it on an 10.5 in 5.56 90% of the time suppressed in a CMT lefty upper with an AR vent & haven't decided if I'm gonna run the Geissele gas block that came with MK8 rail I managed to score on 50% off sale or a Superlative arms gas block my buddy gave me , any thought on these also appreciated .
Former11B
7 July 2016, 05:01
Griffin SNACH.
I did a little review on here a while back. I run it on a rifle that is suppressed 100% of the time while shooting
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/DownSouthTAS/CHOverhead_zpsmaq0lqkh.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/DownSouthTAS/CHRifle_zpsxcl3s54m.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/DownSouthTAS/CHRifle2_zpsbuouvu9u.jpg
Mega Slide lock or Raptors.
And for the life of me I can't figure out how they market that SNATCH as a ambi charging handle. That gas vent directs the gas directly into the face of a lefty. I shot 1 magazine with mine and gave it to a right handed friend. He loves it BTW.
Former11B
7 July 2016, 05:17
Mega Slide lock or Raptors.
And for the life of me I can't figure out how they market that SNATCH as a ambi charging handle. That gas vent directs the gas directly into the face of a lefty. I shot 1 magazine with mine and gave it to a right handed friend. He loves it BTW.
Some people are just soooo hard to please [BD]
Kidding, btw. I'll fire some rounds lefty next time out and see how big of a carbon stain I get on my face. Never thought about it as a righty.
Lol Without a doubt a worst case scenario. Way over gassed rifle with an ACOG. The gasses seemed to really impact my right eye. Really nice charging handle except that. Actually like the lever design more than the Raptor.
Default.mp3
7 July 2016, 07:22
I have a Freedom Bone on order from DSG. I'm hoping it'll be less gassy than my regular Raptor on my PWS MK110 Mod1 with a Surefire SOCOM RC556. I'll update this thread once I've had a chance to play with it; if it doesn't work, I'll probably try out the Geissele, too.
JGifford
7 July 2016, 12:23
I personally like my Badger G3
UWone77
7 July 2016, 12:32
I personally like my Badger G3
The Badger is underrated. Great CH.
alamo5000
7 July 2016, 12:51
+1 on the snach. Don't know if it has any effect on lefties. Probably depends on the rifle being used. But the build is great.
JGifford
7 July 2016, 17:46
The Badger is underrated. Great CH.
Somehow it just...fell through the cracks. I love it though, and I've used many of them. PRI, BCM (ambi and non-ambi), SNACH, USGI, AXTS. I prefer the G3 badger hands down.
UWone77
7 July 2016, 18:02
Somehow it just...fell through the cracks. I love it though, and I've used many of them. PRI, BCM (ambi and non-ambi), SNACH, USGI, AXTS. I prefer the G3 badger hands down.
I discovered them by accident through Slippers at Arisaka.
Their marketing is Nil... I think they're still known for scope rings and not much else. I doubt a lot of people even know they make a great ambi CH.
JGifford
7 July 2016, 18:18
I discovered them by accident through Slippers at Arisaka.
Their marketing is Nil... I think they're still known for scope rings and not much else. I doubt a lot of people even know they make a great ambi CH.
They make a great bolt-release, too. Love it. Jim Hodge turned me on to their stuff. Badger doesn't have to market. All of their stuff has contacts with DoD/FBI/etc. They are kindof the salesman who doesn't take "lot-ups" anymore.
fairlanericky
7 July 2016, 18:29
Also +1 on the SNACH when shooting suppressed, except when shooting indoors with a wall on your right shoulder.
Ric
Aragorn
7 July 2016, 18:30
So what is it about the badger? Giving it a once over on their site it just looks like another ambi.
Feel? Something else?
Slippers
7 July 2016, 18:52
The key to the Badger G3 charging handle is the ergonomics, in my opinion. There are no sharp edges, and it can't pinch you (always an issue with BCM Gunfighters for me, despite having slim fingers). It doesn't jab you in the back when the rifle is slung. I run a 556 version on my LMT MRP 10.5 and the 308 version on my LMT MWS.
Rich got my extra so we can have matching MRP 10.5 uppers. :)
I also use some of their bolt catches. They have a good feel, with a bigger paddle but don't stick out obscenely. Plus they are a dead match for the CMT SSA ambi controls. Sorry, terrible cell pic, but you get the idea:
http://i.imgur.com/4nyyj4tl.jpg
JGifford
7 July 2016, 19:11
So what is it about the badger? Giving it a once over on their site it just looks like another ambi.
Feel? Something else?
Very well engineered to pass mil-spec. There are a lot of tests the military requires a CH to pass. For one, the CH is not allowed to un-latch if the weapon is 100% rigidly affixed and fired. Some CH's have had issues with this even being fired from the shoulder, much less in a .mil test with 0 movement allowed (rigidly mounted weapon) (SNACH, early version, for example).
The second point is feel. I really like how the handles feel. They are not sharp ANYWHERE, and I have yet to be pinched, etc.
It's just very very well made, designed for more than looks, and functions great.
As pictured above, their bolt-catches are also exceptional, and catch roughly 100% more of the bolt than regular bolt-catches, in addition to being very ergonomic.
Mega Slide lock or Raptors.
And for the life of me I can't figure out how they market that SNATCH as a ambi charging handle. That gas vent directs the gas directly into the face of a lefty. I shot 1 magazine with mine and gave it to a right handed friend. He loves it BTW.
Thanks for that info, I;'ll stay away from them on my lefty rig. SwissyJim is sold on one that I can't remember for his surpassed rigs. It looks like it sandwiches the top end of the upper, right over the rail.
I honestly haven't seen a ambi Badger since the ones with the big skeletonized right side latches.
Any site sponsors sell them?
Joelski
7 July 2016, 20:29
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/IMG_1857.jpg
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/IMG_1856.jpg
Armageddon Tactical GMS-15 CH (Right)
Aragorn
7 July 2016, 21:09
The key to the Badger G3 charging handle is the ergonomics, in my opinion. There are no sharp edges, and it can't pinch you (always an issue with BCM Gunfighters for me, despite having slim fingers). It doesn't jab you in the back when the rifle is slung. I run a 556 version on my LMT MRP 10.5 and the 308 version on my LMT MWS.
Very well engineered to pass mil-spec. There are a lot of tests the military requires a CH to pass. For one, the CH is not allowed to un-latch if the weapon is 100% rigidly affixed and fired. Some CH's have had issues with this even being fired from the shoulder, much less in a .mil test with 0 movement allowed (rigidly mounted weapon) (SNACH, early version, for example).
The second point is feel. I really like how the handles feel. They are not sharp ANYWHERE, and I have yet to be pinched, etc.
It's just very very well made, designed for more than looks, and functions great.
As pictured above, their bolt-catches are also exceptional, and catch roughly 100% more of the bolt than regular bolt-catches, in addition to being very ergonomic.
Interesting! I'll throw it in the consideration pile for my newest project.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/IMG_1857.jpg
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/IMG_1856.jpg
Armageddon Tactical GMS-15 CH (Right)
That's it. Thanks J.
UWone77
7 July 2016, 22:48
Mega Slide lock or Raptors.
And for the life of me I can't figure out how they market that SNATCH as a ambi charging handle. That gas vent directs the gas directly into the face of a lefty. I shot 1 magazine with mine and gave it to a right handed friend. He loves it BTW.
The problem with the slide locks ... they sometimes unlatch while shooting.
If the Snach had a port out to the left I would hop on it , I unfortunately only shoot lefty so the gasbuster or anything that vents to the right is a no go .
JGifford
8 July 2016, 01:25
If the Snach had a port out to the left I would hop on it , I unfortunately only shoot lefty so the gasbuster or anything that vents to the right is a no go .
I found it of minimal value. The gas hangs in a cloud all around your hear/the upper. I have not had it "jet into my eyes". More "overwhelm me with its presence", lol, if anything. The strength of the SNACH (haha) is that it is a very well designed, and beautifully machined CH. Not its alleged abilities to make a suppressed weapon somehow not put gas in your face. Just my .02
mustangfreek
9 July 2016, 03:35
The problem with the slide locks ... they sometimes unlatch while shooting.
Really huh..first I've heard
Was that while suppressed or ?
Need a CH and have considered a mega
Joelski
9 July 2016, 05:13
I want to try the Geissele handle to see how it feels and if it works to limit gasface. I was expecting the price to be higher than it turned out to be. The Avalanche was sort of disappointing so I'm sticking to Raptors for now.
Slippers
9 July 2016, 07:13
The ported handles don't do anything for suppressed use, in my experience. The gas comes out near your face still. I don't shoot nose to charging handle, so this may be a factor.
RTV silicone is your friend. I actually did my two Badger G3 handles last night, and cleaned them up this morning. Perfect seal.
UWone77
9 July 2016, 10:37
I want to try the Geissele handle to see how it feels and if it works to limit gasface. I was expecting the price to be higher than it turned out to be. The Avalanche was sort of disappointing so I'm sticking to Raptors for now.
The avalanche has a direct channel for gas to travel into your face. I don't recommend it for suppressed shooting.
DeviantLogic
9 July 2016, 13:40
RTV silicone is your friend. I actually did my two Badger G3 handles last night, and cleaned them up this morning. Perfect seal.
Had to look that up. Never heard of doing it before.
The Geissele Super Charging Handle is my new favorite. It's superbly designed and made. The serrations on the front straps are surprisingly effective.
When I was playing with designing an ambi charging handle, the front straps had vertical serrations (as almost all AR charging handles do.) Geissele's SCH has horizontal serrations and vertical, and offer very good traction for both vertical and horizontal movement, something that I hadn't thought of.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/013_zpsjp4umfld.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/013_zpsjp4umfld.jpg.html)
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/schldfa3_zpsee1vb8ft.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/schldfa3_zpsee1vb8ft.jpg.html)
They feel better than strictly vertical serrations.
The pocket inside the right latch is deeper than the one on the left, I'm not sure the rationale for it, but I'm sure Bill has his reasons.
Joelski
13 July 2016, 19:07
I've gotta have some of those..
Default.mp3
14 July 2016, 05:44
The pocket inside the right latch is deeper than the one on the left, I'm not sure the rationale for it, but I'm sure Bill has his reasons.Maybe for additional clearance from the forward assist?
The left and right latches appear symmetrical in length. The lightening cuts, or pockets, are of different depths, but I don't think access to forward assist is affected at either depths.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/pocket_zps1kor0wd9.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/pocket_zps1kor0wd9.jpg.html)
Former11B
14 July 2016, 06:31
The SNACH eliminated the need for RTV silicone for me. I did the RTV "mod" to all my milspec CHs and the SNACH doesn't blow gas rearward. Like Sinner mentioned, being a righty helps but I don't go home with a carbon caked face from the range. You can see the very first pic I posted in this thread my one CH has RTV and the SNACH doesn't. It's also larger and fits more snugly in the channel than my milspec handle
Default.mp3
14 July 2016, 06:48
The left and right latches appear symmetrical in length. The lightening cuts, or pockets, are of different depths, but I don't think access to forward assist is affected at either depths.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/pocket_zps1kor0wd9.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/pocket_zps1kor0wd9.jpg.html)Oh, I'm retarded, misread your statement as to something to the effect that the concavity on the right being deeper than the left.
Lol, doesn't the pocket depth disparity make one wonder? AXTS's right latch is longer than the left, ostensibly to facilitate right side latch operations, but it doesn't really clear the FA. To do so, the latch would be too long to be practical.
The answer to that problem is still a rimless FA like the LDFA [:D]
I believe the military has a latch length limit, I suspect Geissele's is made to such specs.
I like the latches to be compact and not overly long. AXTS offers a version of Raptor that has symmetrical length latches, but they're both long. I wanted to order a version with two short latches, alas they don't make them that way.
I'll wager that the depth difference is to accommodate the latching mechanism.
And that's exactly right! The left latch is home to the "hook" so the pocket is shallower to leave enough material for it. The right latch has no such concerns and so is as deep as possible.
There I was thinking about weight balance, or lighter weight on the right latch for a purpose Bill divined but I didn't [crazy]
You can also put a tactical Skittle in the pocket on the right.
n4p226r
14 July 2016, 19:03
It seems like every time I build an AR there is a new best charging handle out. My first one was the gunfighter. Then it was the raptor. Now it's the geissele. While not a huge collection i would prefer to settle on 1 for all of them so now I have to decide to buy 4 raptors or 5 geissele. Hmm
Default.mp3
14 July 2016, 19:42
I have a Freedom Bone on order from DSG. I'm hoping it'll be less gassy than my regular Raptor on my PWS MK110 Mod1 with a Surefire SOCOM RC556. I'll update this thread once I've had a chance to play with it; if it doesn't work, I'll probably try out the Geissele, too.Well, in my limited testing today (was mostly confirming zero), there seemed to be minimal difference between the regular Raptor and the Freedom Bone. Tested on a PWS MK110 Mod1 on the smallest gas port with a Surefire SOCOM RC556 using Winchester X556TG (their 3 Gun line-up ammo). Then again, there was far less blowback on the regular Raptor compared to what I usually shoot, Federal XM193. I'll see if I can't try it out with a wider gas port setting this weekend.
fledge
14 July 2016, 22:04
Just arrived today.
Where "badass" meets "super precision"...
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/Geissele/FED2422E-8783-4755-AC96-808A6FC51204_zpset4tci8v.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/Geissele/FED2422E-8783-4755-AC96-808A6FC51204_zpset4tci8v.jpg.html)
Stickman
15 July 2016, 00:40
Nice!
Just arrived today.
Where "badass" meets "super precision"...
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/Geissele/FED2422E-8783-4755-AC96-808A6FC51204_zpset4tci8v.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/Geissele/FED2422E-8783-4755-AC96-808A6FC51204_zpset4tci8v.jpg.html)
JGifford
15 July 2016, 00:59
Just arrived today.
Where "badass" meets "super precision"...
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/Geissele/FED2422E-8783-4755-AC96-808A6FC51204_zpset4tci8v.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/Geissele/FED2422E-8783-4755-AC96-808A6FC51204_zpset4tci8v.jpg.html)
If Noveske goes with suppliers like this on the rest of their rifles, they might get their reputation back in another 5 years...
Joelski
15 July 2016, 04:24
The pocket is for Pokémon bullets.
UWone77
15 July 2016, 12:49
If Noveske goes with suppliers like this on the rest of their rifles, they might get their reputation back in another 5 years...
They just need something new. Seems like they have just been rebranding lately. I'm guessing this is partially due to moving on to different suppliers.
Badge engineering didn't help GM and Chrysler.
UWone77
15 July 2016, 17:12
Badge engineering didn't help GM and Chrysler.
Roger that's a poor example, we both know no amount of help would have sold K Cars any better. [:D]
Haha Chrysler sure milked the hell out of the K cars, made them into 4 door sedans, 3 door sporty cars and hatchbacks, and minivans [BD]
Joelski
15 July 2016, 17:38
You mean like the S-10, Blazer, H3 platform?
quick question from a noob lefty. i know this is kind of an old post, but as i'm building my first AR, i'm starting to look at upper components (the lower is finished), this thread got me concerned with gasface (new term for me).
my question is: is gasface only a problem when shooting suppressed? or do you get massive amounts of gas in your face no matter what when shooting left handed? (no, i haven't done a lot of shooting AR's before...just the SCAR at the gun range and my buddy's AK)
Slippers
5 May 2017, 07:34
quick question from a noob lefty. i know this is kind of an old post, but as i'm building my first AR, i'm starting to look at upper components (the lower is finished), this thread got me concerned with gasface (new term for me).
my question is: is gasface only a problem when shooting suppressed? or do you get massive amounts of gas in your face no matter what when shooting left handed? (no, i haven't done a lot of shooting AR's before...just the SCAR at the gun range and my buddy's AK)
Only an issue suppressed, and only if your gun isn't set up to handle it. Adjustable gas block, or reduced size gas ports can pretty much alleviate all the gas to face. Some suppressors are less gassy, too, like Surefire's RC models, or using a 30 caliber can since the larger bore through the suppressor allows more gas to escape out the front. You can also use a gemtech sbc carrier, but it does dump more gas out the ejection port (although this is not nearly as bad as an overgassed rifle/suppressor spewing gas out the charging handle area).
thanks slippers. exactly what i needed to know.
quick question from a noob lefty. i know this is kind of an old post, but as i'm building my first AR, i'm starting to look at upper components (the lower is finished), this thread got me concerned with gasface (new term for me).
my question is: is gasface only a problem when shooting suppressed? or do you get massive amounts of gas in your face no matter what when shooting left handed? (no, i haven't done a lot of shooting AR's before...just the SCAR at the gun range and my buddy's AK)
Slippers nailed it. I have 2 rifles with lefty uppers (I don't have any wrongy uppers), that I shoot suppressed. One has front sight base, and one has an adjustable gas block. When shooting suppressed with my Omega, I don't get any noticeable gas face with either. I get more gas face with a 10/22 unsuppressed. Start a new thread about your build prospects as a lefty, there are a few southpaws on here.
mustangfreek
27 May 2017, 16:35
Bored and bumping threads...
How does everyone like the Geissele super and airborne handles?
The super much bigger then a raptor?
All I run anymore is LWRC's ambi CH. Rock solid, well built, but still slim.
UWone77
29 May 2017, 03:24
Bored and bumping threads...
How does everyone like the Geissele super and airborne handles?
The super much bigger then a raptor?
Geissele Handles in my opinion are not a huge upgrade over Raptors. I'd honestly get whatever was on sale between the two.
After an initial poor experience with a Mega charging handle, (Chips from the machining process remained in the spring's bore hole and caused extremely high spring pressure, damaging a upper before I figured out the issue.) I've grown to love their simplicity. I have not ever experienced the problem some claim that the handle unlatches during use.
My Mega CH came loose quite often. Sent it back for repair, they said it had problems with the spring. Ended up giving it away once I got it back.
UWone77
30 May 2017, 03:25
The first batches of the slidelock had some latches that came loose. I haven't heard of any recent ones having issues.
Jester Gunwerkz
30 May 2017, 09:53
I've been very happy with my Phase 5 Tactical Ambi Battlelatch.
FortTom
31 May 2017, 14:41
Ha..ha.. I think I have similar but different CH's on every AR I own, including a LR-10....[:D] On a more serious note I think I gave one away here, because the "wings" were like saw blades, and without gloves it felt like grabbing a grater.
I like the ambi's so I can pull with my right hand (bad form but I do it occasionally) I've found nearly all from reputable companies are six of one and half dozen of the other, just personal preference. One I love, you may hate, so I wouldn't even try to recommend one to you.
PRI Gas Buster helps keep hot gasses and oil out of your face.
P.S. Just realized this post is almost a year old...never mind.
FT[:D]
Aragorn
21 July 2017, 08:29
Anyone have a pic of a Badger gen 3 alongside a Raptor or Geissele? The Badger looks wide in pics and I'm trying to get a solid reference.
Dstrbdmedic167
21 July 2017, 08:41
Slippers might be able to chime in with a picture.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Slippers
21 July 2017, 08:52
Anyone have a pic of a Badger gen 3 alongside a Raptor or Geissele? The Badger looks wide in pics and I'm trying to get a solid reference.
The badger is huge, but nice and rounded. I no longer have any raptors since they are pretty bad with a suppressor. The Geissele airborne would be my pick if I wanted to have ambi, keep it slim, and not get shredded when the rifle is slung across my back. Otherwise I use the BCM mod 5 small latch for all of my rifles.
Aragorn
21 July 2017, 09:39
The badger is huge, but nice and rounded. I no longer have any raptors since they are pretty bad with a suppressor. The Geissele airborne would be my pick if I wanted to have ambi, keep it slim, and not get shredded when the rifle is slung across my back. Otherwise I use the BCM mod 5 small latch for all of my rifles.
Good to know, thanks!
UWone77
21 July 2017, 20:18
From the top: Geissele, Radian, Badger
3896
Aragorn
21 July 2017, 20:23
From the top: Geissele, Radian, Badger
3896
Whoa... that sucker IS wide. Think I'm gonna roll with Slippers suggestion of the Geissele Airborne. Thanks for the pic!
UWone77
21 July 2017, 20:38
Personally, I really like the Badger. The edges are much smoother than the other 2.
3898
mustangfreek
21 July 2017, 20:48
Cool thanx for the pics..always wondered how wide it really was
Another side note..how much wider is the airborne compared to the regular Geissele super ch
Aragorn
21 July 2017, 20:53
Badger DOES look super smooth, and not like it would be pinchy at all. But man, both sides being wider than the long side of a Radian seems... well, like a lot. I guess I'd just have to try one.
Cool thanx for the pics..always wondered how wide it really was
Another side note..how much wider is the airborne compared to the regular Geissele super ch
I don't want to jack someone else pic from another site, but this page has a Geissele Super and Airborne side by side.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_444/282845_Airborne-Charging-Handle--ACH-.html
fledge
21 July 2017, 21:01
The difference in width is minimal between the regular and airborne. The airborne has less of a hook which is the selling point for me.
Decent comparison pic:
https://i0.wp.com/www.ar15news.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/18358663_10154498363080233_3125585523201644022_o.j pg?resize=604%2C604
mustangfreek
22 July 2017, 03:05
Thanks.. I see what your saying by "less hook"
UWone77
22 July 2017, 20:15
If Badgers were cheaper, I'd buy more. They have zero pinch factor.
3903
Aragorn
22 July 2017, 20:19
Actually... just remember the whole reason I asked. Looking for an ambi that doesn't pinch, that's flat on the back to facilitate nose to charging handle. I like the reference point when I'm behind my scope.
All while preferably not being overly wide.
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