Arisaka Defense "Modern" M952 Body?

[usbp379]

Greetings, all.

I've been exchanging emails with Will from Arisaka Defense about producing a single cell body with KeyMod and/or MLOK mounting points that's compatible with the old Surefire M95x series heads and tail caps.

I've seen the old lights for pretty darn cheap on eBay and I know the SR tape switches will work with these older lights. And Malkoff makes an LED module that runs off a single 123 battery that will fit these older heads.

So I'm wondering how much interest there might be in something like this. If Will can sell an LED module and a light body for something like $100 would anyone get one to upgrade an old light?

TIA!

[UWone77]

I see literally see little to no demand for this. The sheer size of the head and end cap would still make the light quite large relative to lights already on the market.

I've upgraded several of my M951/952 lights with Malkoff M61 drop ins. They have breathed new life into them, but other than to guys building clones, there isnt much demand for these lights.

[Mecha_Arms]

Those old lights are so big compared to the newer generation stuff, you'll be surprised when you see one in person.

A while back I grabbed one cheap, thinking it was such an awesome deal, and when it showed up I thought "what the hell am I going to do with this?" The extra size isn't worth it, even if you can get components or full lights cheap.

[usbp379]

This is the type of feedback I was looking for. Thanks for posting.

There are a couple issues that may be insurmountable anyway. One is the length of the body with only one battery will likely place the head and tail right up against each other and not leave much room for mounting points. There isn't going to be any way to make a body that's "lopro" because of the diameter of the parts. Also, a quick gander at eBay shows that there might not be as many of the old lights for sale as there was just a few months ago.

Still, I think it would be nifty to be able to create a new tube that would save a little weight and shorten everything up to take less rail space. I suppose the only market would be people who already own the older M95x rather than someone buying one specifically for the upgrade.

Anyway, let's just forget I ever voiced the idea in public...

[UWone77]

I do see your line of thinking. All those surplus lights are out there with no purpose now... seems like a waste. Too bad Malkoff doesn't market the replacement bulbs more.

[usbp379]

Yeah. The Malkoff LED is money well spent on these old lights.

[Former11B]

I see literally see little to no demand for this. The sheer size of the head and end cap would still make the light quite large relative to lights already on the market.

I've upgraded several of my M951/952 lights with Malkoff M61 drop ins. They have breathed new life into them, but other than to guys building clones, there isnt much demand for these lights.

I am so glad I read this post.

I have the LED conversion (Surefire brand) for my 6P but my M951 on my clone-ish rifle could use this Malkoff upgrade.

[UWone77]

I am so glad I read this post.

I have the LED conversion (Surefire brand) for my 6P but my M951 on my clone-ish rifle could use this Malkoff upgrade.

So slightly off topic, did most of you guys in Iraq/Afghanistan use the tape switches included with these lights or just use the tail cap button?

[usbp379]

To bump my own thread; has anyone got experience with Oveready's LED heads or lamps? Expensive but appear to be significantly brighter than the lamps from Malkoff.

[usbp379]

Alright. So what about something as simple as this?

This is a threaded adapter that allows a Scout head to be screwed onto an old Millennium body.

Seems to work fine. I'll try to get it mounted and put some rounds on it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180803/6e8e0a05afb43d055bff76cc168fa513.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180803/c6b44e6df49ef553ff627fe364341034.jpg

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[UWone77]

Dude... let the old "fat" 951/952 bodies go... a replacement scout body is cheap.

[usbp379]

Dude... let the old "fat" 951/952 bodies go... a replacement scout body is cheap.The Scout body is fairly cheap although the DS tail caps aren't. Plus I have a couple mounts that would also have to be replaced. If I can bring my existing lights up to current standard by using an adapter and new head it'll save me more than just the cost of a new light.

Something else that is probably quite do-able is to bore the old Millenium body to accept a 18650 rechargeable battery. Are the Surefire M600DF heads available separately?

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[UWone77]

I find that upgrading old lights is like upgrading an old computer. Although it's nice to repurpose or keep using older things, ultimately the cost of the upgrade is more trouble than it's worth and you're left with something that's not as good as the new one.

I say this because I had boxes of RAM, Video Cards, and SSD's last week [:D]

The DF heads are not available separately from what I've seen. The old bodies are so large. They're bulky IMHO on rifles. Not a lot of people have them anymore and frankly I just don't see anyone making updates/upgrades for these other than maybe the bulb because there's no money in it.

[Former11B]

An Arisaka 300 light is what, $165? You get 300 lumens at 2.8oz (with battery).

I have an M951 or whatever it is. It weighs almost a pound and you get 65 lumens out of it with fresh batteries

My 400 lumen HSP WML is $120 new (got mine new but 2nd hand for $75) and it weighs 4.8oz!!

My Streamlight ProTac is 625 lumen, 4.3oz with all the mounts, and $110 (I also paid $80). This light is actually too bright for a lot of things. The smaller 350 lumen model was what I should’ve gotten. Too much splash back and reflection off of things due to the brightness

My M951 will likely go into a box In the near future. My handheld single AAA micro stream is almost as bright as the SF M951 and it weighs ONE OUNCE

[usbp379]

An Arisaka 300 light is what, $165? You get 300 lumens at 2.8oz (with battery).

I have an M951 or whatever it is. It weighs almost a pound and you get 65 lumens out of it with fresh batteries

My 400 lumen HSP WML is $120 new (got mine new but 2nd hand for $75) and it weighs 4.8oz!!

My Streamlight ProTac is 625 lumen, 4.3oz with all the mounts, and $110 (I also paid $80). This light is actually too bright for a lot of things. The smaller 350 lumen model was what I should’ve gotten. Too much splash back and reflection off of things due to the brightness

My M951 will likely go into a box In the near future. My handheld single AAA micro stream is almost as bright as the SF M951 and it weighs ONE OUNCEI'll get you some weights but the M951 body with XM tail cap is pretty light. That's with ditching the humongous mounting clamp and the bulky head assembly.



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[usbp379]

I'll get a weight measurement ASAP but I'm going to guess this combo is only fractionally heavier than the comparable Scout setup. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180804/1d68779b5f887a6082243703f47cfad1.jpg

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[Joelski]

That looks like a contraption you'd find on a German rifle.

[usbp379]

That looks like a contraption you'd find on a German rifle.?

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[usbp379]

I have an M951 or whatever it is. It weighs almost a pound and you get 65 lumens out of it with fresh batteries


The Malkoff P60 LED drop-in is about $40 and is 350 lumens or whatever. Turns the M951 into something useful for pretty cheap. There are other LED drop-ins out there that are brighter but I have no first hand experience. As an example Lumens Factory has an 800 lumen upgrade for $35.




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[usbp379]

Alright. Weight measurements.

M951 light with Malkoff LED and batteries. No big clamp rail mount. 0.50 lbs

M951 body with Malkoff thread adapter and KM2 Surefire head with batteries. 0.34 lbs

Surefire M622V Scout assembly with ADM QD mount. 0.42 lbs

Two Surefire C123 batteries. 0.08 lbs.

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[Former11B]

The Malkoff P60 LED drop-in is about $40 and is 350 lumens or whatever. Turns the M951 into something useful for pretty cheap. There are other LED drop-ins out there that are brighter but I have no first hand experience. As an example Lumens Factory has an 800 lumen upgrade for $35.




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I got the weight (.95lb) with batteries straight from SF’s website. That’s the light, the mount, the tail, & batteries all rolled in

Even with an LED Upgrade for $40, that money is 40-50% of a new light that’s a quarter of the weight of a 951 and a third of the size.

My M951 has put in a TON of work at home and abroad but it’s time to retire the old torch [BD]

[usbp379]

Just wanting to let people know there are options. If upgrading isn't something you are interested in that's fine with me.

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[Joelski]

Just a passing observation, no offense meant. Germans can make anything look techy and complicated.

[UWone77]

There hurdles I see with getting someone to make these upgrades:

1. Cost. The KM2-B head you have is alone $199. Arisaka full lights are $179
2. Demand. There will be little to none, so no money in it for people selling/making it
3. Aesthetics. The light you pictured is I'm sure 100% functional, but it's hideous. We both know what drives the market.

[usbp379]

There hurdles I see with getting someone to make these upgrades:

1. Cost. The KM2-B head you have is alone $199. Arisaka full lights are $179
2. Demand. There will be little to none, so no money in it for people selling/making it
3. Aesthetics. The light you pictured is I'm sure 100% functional, but it's hideous. We both know what drives the market.What's the price on a new Vampire Scout? What about a DS tail cap?

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[UWone77]

What's the price on a new Vampire Scout? What about a DS tail cap?

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Maybe Will can chime in here, Vampire heads vs LED heads I bet are 10:1 in sales ratio. A subset of a subset is a very small number of people. Don't get me wrong, I like the fact you're thinking outside the box, and I like having options, even if they are obscure. I just think the hurdle will be getting someone to make these and have them see any kind of cost/benefit.

[usbp379]

Maybe Will can chime in here, Vampire heads vs LED heads I bet are 10:1 in sales ratio. A subset of a subset is a very small number of people. Don't get me wrong, I like the fact you're thinking outside the box, and I like having options, even if they are obscure. I just think the hurdle will be getting someone to make these and have them see any kind of cost/benefit.The adapter is already something available from Malkoff. It is pretty inexpensive.

Add to this a Malkoff E2 head for $110 or so and you have a nice bright light that doesn't require a new mount or anything else.

For me to get a new M600V with a DS tail cap I'm looking at over $300. Or I can get the Malkoff adapter and the KM2 head for a bit over two bones.

If I just wanted a new bright light I'd buy a Streamlight PRO TAC or maybe the new Sirefire M600DF..

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[UWone77]

Well there you go, you already proved me wrong... Malkoff is making this and I didn't know... and I talk to Gene frequently. [:D]

[Slippers]

We sell a complete light with km1 or km2 head and our body and choice of tailcap for $259.

IR lights are a tiiiiiiny portion of our sales. Heck, most serious nvg users don't use the surefire IR heads either because the IR illuminator on their peq or mawl is far superior.

[usbp379]

Well there you go, you already proved me wrong... Malkoff is making this and I didn't know... and I talk to Gene frequently. [:D]He makes this threaded adapter for the Surefire shotgun forends.

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[UWone77]

He makes this threaded adapter for the Surefire shotgun forends.

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Yeah, I've got one of those. I know he doesn't sell many. Some of Gene's products are very niche and I'm surprised he makes them, but like I said, at least there are some options.

[usbp379]

We sell a complete light with km1 or km2 head and our body and choice of tailcap for $259.

IR lights are a tiiiiiiny portion of our sales. Heck, most serious nvg users don't use the surefire IR heads either because the IR illuminator on their peq or mawl is far superior.I wish Gene made a better Scout head. Run time on his brightest E2 is something like half an hour?

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[usbp379]

Yeah, I've got one of those. I know he doesn't sell many. Some of Gene's products are very niche and I'm surprised he makes them, but like I said, at least there are some options.I think the genuine Surefire LED forend upgrade is only marginally more expensive.

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[UWone77]

We sell a complete light with km1 or km2 head and our body and choice of tailcap for $259.


$233.10 if you're LE/MIL.... so this is really why I think for the masses the new light is more appealing than the upgrade.

[usbp379]

We sell a complete light with km1 or km2 head and our body and choice of tailcap for $259.

IR lights are a tiiiiiiny portion of our sales. Heck, most serious nvg users don't use the surefire IR heads either because the IR illuminator on their peq or mawl is far superior.What's the price on the DS tail cap?

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[Former11B]

We sell a complete light with km1 or km2 head and our body and choice of tailcap for $259.

IR lights are a tiiiiiiny portion of our sales. Heck, most serious nvg users don't use the surefire IR heads either because the IR illuminator on their peq or mawl is far superior.

I don’t use it because it doesn’t work that well. I need an IR beam for coyotes/hogs but I really can’t swing $1000+ for something I used in the Army.... I’d use so infrequently (since it’s not work related). But I hate buying cheap crap

[Slippers]

I wish Gene made a better Scout head. Run time on his brightest E2 is something like half an hour?

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That's because Gene's heads maintain constant output until the battery dies instead of a gradual drop down to nothing. You can use 16650 cells to more than double the run time.

[Slippers]

What's the price on the DS tail cap?

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I believe map is $99. I should probably start carrying some of those.

[usbp379]

I don’t use it because it doesn’t work that well. I need an IR beam for coyotes/hogs but I really can’t swing $1000+ for something I used in the Army.... I’d use so infrequently (since it’s not work related). But I hate buying cheap crap

I’ll give you that the KM2 isn’t the best IR illuminator. That’s what the PEQ is for. Also not the brightest white light although the latest heads are up to 350 lumens...

But for training guns and spares it’s a decent unit.

[Former11B]

I’ll give you that the KM2 isn’t the best IR illuminator. That’s what the PEQ is for. Also not the brightest white light although the latest heads are up to 350 lumens...

But for training guns and spares it’s a decent unit.



I know. I ran a PEQ2 and PEQ15 for years and have a 15 in my Safe. I am not running and gunning anymore. The only thing I do under NVG now is stalking coyotes/hogs and I need a very specific combo of IR Illum and IR laser that the PEQ/15 isn’t sufficient for. I would like a small, stand alone IR laser and inexpensive because the IR flood unit I need is huge. I say inexpensive because I’m not a cop or in the military anymore and I’m not beating the hell out of this stuff while trusting my life to it.

[usbp379]

Just FYSA,

It looks like the current M61 drop-in LED is @ 425 lumens now. Not earth shattering but not bad either. Certainly a good option for $42 or so.

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[usbp379]

That's because Gene's heads maintain constant output until the battery dies instead of a gradual drop down to nothing. You can use 16650 cells to more than double the run time.Any ETA on when you'll have the E2ST back in stock?

Also, any plans on selling 16650 or 18650 batteries?

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[usbp379]

Upgraded another one of these with the threaded adapter and E2 Super Throw head from Malkoff. Total was a bit north of $100.

Again, maybe not the best option if starting from scratch. But I already had the light with XM tail cap, the tape switch and the mount for my VTAC handguard. The addition of the threaded collar and new head gives me the functionality of the current Scout without buying a new light and/or DS tail cap.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190420/9bf4796671cfb7481496410bb037b869.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190420/b529b42de9907a405f1955acfa7d5338.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190420/dc4450c5176ee9e6e7a6f585ddbdd394.jpg

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[Former11B]

I bit the bullet and ordered an Arisaka 300 series light yesterday

I was going to upgrade the M951 but the weight savings finally made me upgrade while I had the other stuff in my cart, I figured I might as well

[UWone77]

Upgraded another one of these with the threaded adapter and E2 Super Throw head from Malkoff. Total was a bit north of $100.

Again, maybe not the best option if starting from scratch. But I already had the light with XM tail cap, the tape switch and the mount for my VTAC handguard. The addition of the threaded collar and new head gives me the functionality of the current Scout without buying a new light and/or DS tail cap.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190420/9bf4796671cfb7481496410bb037b869.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190420/b529b42de9907a405f1955acfa7d5338.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190420/dc4450c5176ee9e6e7a6f585ddbdd394.jpg

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I don't know if there is another person running this exact same setup anywhere [:D]

[usbp379]

I don't know if there is another person running this exact same setup anywhere [:D]Nope. Probably not. Probably for good reason.


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[usbp379]

Gene is now listing these on his website.

Pretty decent option in my opinion if you already have an old Surefire and related accessories on a rifle and don't want to replace the entire package. Or keep the Millennium but buy a Vampire head or whatever.

https://malkoffdevices.com/products/malkoff-md90-adapter-for-surefire-mh90-body?utm_campaign=newsletter-featured_products-def6cb8d88a54954a4555c93b93de0dc&utm_medium=email&utm_source=seguno

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[usbp379]

https://youtu.be/LtNurxZOiE8

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[tact]

I don’t get it......why......

[UWone77]

I don’t get it......why......

Gotta snag those dozens of sales!

[usbp379]

No biggie. Gene was already making the thread adapter for the Surefire shotgun forend. Same adapter works for the Millenium lights.

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[usbp379]

Just updated my 951 with Gene's new E2XT head. The head is a little longer and larger in diameter than a "normal" scout head. I think the slightly larger size actually looks better on the 951 body. Weight is increased by about one ounce over the E2HT head.



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[UWone77]

I'll give you credit, your refusal to let that 951 body die is commendable!

[usbp379]

I'll give you credit, your refusal to let that 951 body die is commendable!Merf.

Like I said early on; already have the light with rifle mount, pressure switch, etc. No reason to toss functional stuff just to keep up with instrabook or whatever.

Running the head now. About 45 minutes in on freshly charged lifepo4 batteries. Brightness tapered off a little after about half an hour. Still enough output to be useful at 45 minutes. We'll see what it looks like in another half hour.

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[usbp379]

Creeping up on an hour and a half. The light's still running but ain't putting out anything really useful.

30-45 minutes is probably quite useful. 45-60 still useful depending on task at hand. 60+ still shining.

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[usbp379]

Two hours in.

Not going to do much as far as shooting but the light's still probably bright enough to illuminate your path. Pretty pleased with the new head. As soon as it is fully dark I'll swap in some fresh batteries and see how it does around the neighborhood.

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[usbp379]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200304/7a960f3b27fa67cdd503149f85f64fe5.jpg

[usbp379]

7264

[UWone77]

That does actually look much better. Should just rattle can the body black!

[usbp379]

That does actually look much better. Should just rattle can the body black!Yes the proportions are more in sync. With a normal scout head the head is too small. It makes the light body and tail cap look excessively large by comparison.

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[UWone77]

I'd almost be tempted to have someone strip the body down and reano it.... or cerakote.

[usbp379]

Apologies if I've already posted this info. Here are some weight measurements for comparison.

I screwed a Malkoff E2XT head onto a Scout 600 body with DS tail cap and weighed the assembly.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201025/ba6f1cf5c0b9c56df4b30f97cd726299.jpg

For reference I did the same thing with a legacy Surefire body and tail cap. The Malkoff head is attached via Malkoff's thread adapter.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201025/6579d1f01e708bde9601ee6e97b09cfb.jpg


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[usbp379]

Just to bump my own thread;

Modlite is now making a "legacy" head for older Scouts. It will run on two 123s or a 16650. They are also going to make a thread adapter for Surefire forends. All those MP5 forends out there need a new head, I guess.

How the Modlite specs out to the Malkoff I don't know. No specs listed on the Modlite website. But these are shipping so we can hope to see some data soon.

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[UWone77]

Just to bump my own thread;

Modlite is now making a "legacy" head for older Scouts. It will run on two 123s or a 16650. They are also going to make a thread adapter for Surefire forends. All those MP5 forends out there need a new head, I guess.

How the Modlite specs out to the Malkoff I don't know. No specs listed on the Modlite website. But these are shipping so we can hope to see some data soon.

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I admit I do love how you won't let the old bodies die. [:D]

Generally pleased with Modlite stuff, so I'm wondering how the legacy heads work. Maybe aesthetically they'll be an improvement over the Malkoff stuff as well.

[usbp379]

I admit I do love how you won't let the old bodies die. [:D]

Generally pleased with Modlite stuff, so I'm wondering how the legacy heads work. Maybe aesthetically they'll be an improvement over the Malkoff stuff as well.No specs but I do happen to have one here.

Size-wise it is very close to the Malkoff. Slightly smaller in diameter but essentially the same length.

Anesthetics are better. The Modlite looks a little more refined with the labeling, etc.

No real comment yet on specs. But the Modlite beam is a little tighter when shined across the office.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220513/fafeb397c15eb236895b3e26069c9557.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220513/752d458947f6f059dc142397cc590bbe.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220513/aa15efbb341cb268fdb7c15d65ad14e1.jpg

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[UWone77]

I know aesthetics mean nothing when it comes to performance, but when it comes to sales for the general masses, it is important. I think that's where Malkoff has been lacking. Looking forward to you reporting back on some long term use.

It is odd there are no specs. Maybe just an oversight since it's a new product?

[usbp379]

Specs from Modlite obtained via email:

LED-F (flood)
850 Lumens
44,000 Candela

LED-T (throw)
660 Lumens
58,000 Candela

80 minutes on 2 CR123s for both.

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[usbp379]

Here is the head. Finally up on the Modlite site. And now also listed for sale through Arisaka Defense.

https://modlite.com/collections/light-heads/products/modlite-legacy-enhanced-led-t-light-head

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