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Aragorn
3 August 2016, 14:51
Project Eva. Eva as kind of a shorthand for Evolution, as in WeaponEvolution [:D]

This is going to be a WEVO/Rainier theme build with a primary focus on... making me happy. Most of the time I take my builds very seriously, scrutinizing every detail and usually with a very specific focus. With Eva, the parameters are mostly based around the scope I'll be using (a Trijicon Accupower 1-4x), reliability... and aesthetics.

Basically I want a solid GP rifle that's as fun to look at as it is to shoot. It's also going to be filling a hole in my stable. Currently I have a 17.3" barreled rifle running adjustable/rifle gas, with a lightweight BCG and reduced power buffer spring. Pretty awesome, but I want something a little less experimental as my primary go-to. There's also my wife's rifle (the Wifle), and it's a 14.5" lightweight build using full weight internals, but it doesn't count for me because it's hers.

I owe both GOST and UWone77 a huge thanks, GOST for providing me with the artwork and vector files for the laser work, and UWone77 for permission to use the WEVO logo.

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As you can see... awesomeness has happened.

Thus far for parts I have the engraved Rainier lower, the Bootleg upper, a PWS 16" barrel, Geissele SD-E, and a Micor 1/8 twist flash suppressor.

The rest of the parts will be....

- BCM KMR Alpha 15", I've got a nice coupon from BCM from when they bought back my damaged KMR, and I think it'll blend nicely with the bootleg upper.
- PWS Gen. 2 Buffer tube and ratchet lock end-plate, yeah, it's lighter, but mostly I want it for looks.
- BCG... Probably a Rainier NiB Match Grade, but maybe a WEVO marked Fathom if I feel like waiting. Also slightly considering a PWS carrier and LMT E-Bolt.
- Charging handle... I'm thinking a Rainier Avalanche, black with NiB knurled handles would look pretty sick. Maybe another Raptor, maybe a Geissele... probably the Avalanche.
- Forward Controls ABC/R and redi-catch combo, probably their mag release button as well.
- Either a BCM forged safety or perhaps B.A.D.'s new lightweight because it looks cool and I like their selectors I've already got. Debating a Rainier selector, but they're always out of stock and I'm not sure I want a 45 degree throw.
- Gas block might be a 2A Ti gas block, but Duffy now put me in limbo when he mentioned Forward Controls was working on a gas block....
- Furniture will be BCM's Gunfighter stock, and a Stark Equipment grip.
- Irons will be Rainier's, and I'll be using a Blitzkrieg FSP.

All in all, she should be pretty B.A.

mustangfreek
3 August 2016, 15:32
Nice list of parts!!

Should turn out nice

fledge
3 August 2016, 16:00
That graphic is amazing. This will be a nice build. Who did the laser work?

Aragorn
3 August 2016, 16:24
The laser work was done by Ident Marking in Rockwall, TX. They were awesome to work with and did amazing work. Was only $105.00 and they didn't charge me a transfer fee.

http://identmarking.com

Here's a couple more shots of the graphic.

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Jerry R
3 August 2016, 17:45
Very nicely done !

alamo5000
3 August 2016, 18:49
BCM KMR Alpha 15", I've got a nice coupon from BCM from when they bought back my damaged KMR,

I was wondering what ever happened with that....I must have missed the outcome.

BTW very nice build!!!

Joelski
3 August 2016, 19:07
I am diggin' that one, Aragorn! Nicely done!

Are we still on track for a gb receiver set this fall/winter? Would love to see some enthusiasm for a heavy set. I want to do an AR 10 build when it gets more toward the end of the year.

Dstrbdmedic167
3 August 2016, 19:58
While the logo isn't really my thing it is very nicely done by GOST and Ident. Glad to see it comes to life. Very nice! Ready to see the entire build


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DutchTerror
4 August 2016, 05:02
Looks a beauty! Sounds like you'll have a nice build on your hands when complete. Looking forward to seeing it come together.

UWone77
4 August 2016, 05:49
Good job with the lower.

The upper is hideous.

Former11B
4 August 2016, 07:02
A PWS barrel in a WEVO/Rainier themed rifle [crazy] Rainier makes some seriously accurate shootin' tubes

I love the lower...and hold out further design opinions til I see the finished product.

Aragorn
4 August 2016, 10:55
Alright.... It's a build with an engraved WEVO lower from Rainier, that will also likely have other Rainier parts, as well as parts from other manufacturers.

I like the looks of the components and am expecting good performance, and it makes me happy. Which, REALLY, that's the true theme for this. [:D]

voodoo_man
4 August 2016, 11:25
...sorta want

Aragorn
9 August 2016, 13:30
Got a SI Ultimate Dust Cover. I really like it, but turns out it won't find a home on my Bootleg upper. Doesn't seem to seal well, even with the detent tightened way up. Also doesn't open fully. It'll clear the port plenty, but then stops before actually impacting the lower just due to where material meets on the Bootleg and SI UDC.

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Joelski
9 August 2016, 15:53
That dust cover looks good. Send it to me, I'll use it! [:D]

Good-looking stick so far.

fledge
9 August 2016, 16:47
The dust cover was a good try. If you want a pic of a V7 on that upper let me know.

But are you sure you want that grip?? :/

(And why can't rainier move that logo on the front of the magwell to the right magwell and delete the billboard "rainier arms"?)

Aragorn
9 August 2016, 17:07
Think I saw a pic of your Bootleg upper with the V7, but yeah, feel free to post another as a refresher. I've got a couple already in use, they're alright. They look nice but are expensive and don't know how well they'd go with the upper. Had high hopes for the SI.

As for the grip, won't know until I shoot it. I've had it laying around for years but all my other lowers are billet so I couldn't use it. When I did recently throw it on a forged lower just to finger-bang, I freaking loved the finger placement it gave me on the flat-bowed Geissele. So, we'll see. It is a bit unusual to look at at first.

Former11B
10 August 2016, 16:42
Yeah please don't use that grip

Stickman
10 August 2016, 17:17
I thought the Stark grip was only for people who broke off the ears on the lower.

Pyzik
11 August 2016, 05:19
Got a SI Ultimate Dust Cover. I really like it, but turns out it won't find a home on my Bootleg upper. Doesn't seem to seal well, even with the detent tightened way up. Also doesn't open fully. It'll clear the port plenty, but then stops before actually impacting the lower just due to where material meets on the Bootleg and SI UDC.

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Did you get the enhanced? That could be the issue. I read that the enhanced was designed for billet uppers.

That lower is sexy. Wish I could have gotten one.

Aragorn
11 August 2016, 12:18
But are you sure you want that grip?? :/


Yeah please don't use that grip

I thought the Stark grip was only for people who broke off the ears on the lower.

Alright... Found a better grip for you guys...




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Hey, I know of at least ONE other member here who will like it! :P



Did you get the enhanced? That could be the issue. I read that the enhanced was designed for billet uppers.

That lower is sexy. Wish I could have gotten one.

Not sure. Box doesn't say enhanced, but it does have the "L" shaped spring and the window cutout...

Pyzik
11 August 2016, 12:38
Alright... Found a better grip for you guys...




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Hey, I know of at least ONE other member here who will like it! [emoji14]




Not sure. Box doesn't say enhanced, but it does have the "L" shaped spring and the window cutout...
Pretty certain mine said enhanced. Not Sure if the spring is the indicator or what

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Jerry R
11 August 2016, 13:20
Alright... Found a better grip for you guys...

Hey, I know of at least ONE other member here who will like it! :P

YES He Does !!![adore][adore][adore]

fledge
11 August 2016, 15:17
Alright... Found a better grip for you guys...

Sadly, that is an improvement.

wsaraceni
11 August 2016, 16:37
I think my buddy waited 2 years for his billet umbrella lower. How was the wait for yours?
Got a SI Ultimate Dust Cover. I really like it, but turns out it won't find a home on my Bootleg upper. Doesn't seem to seal well, even with the detent tightened way up. Also doesn't open fully. It'll clear the port plenty, but then stops before actually impacting the lower just due to where material meets on the Bootleg and SI UDC.

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UWone77
11 August 2016, 19:32
I think my buddy waited 2 years for his billet umbrella lower. How was the wait for yours?

Someone say Umbrella Lower?

[:D]

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Aragorn
23 August 2016, 14:56
Making some progress, kinda taking my time so as not to burn the wallet TOO much. Got the PWS Gen. 2 buffer tube and ratchet lock system. Novel. I'll admit I've never personally staked a castle nut so this isn't a bad alternative. BAD EPS installed. Also my V7 dust cover was slightly loose on my 17" so I pulled it off and stuck it on here. The 17" got the SI which tightened down nicely.

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fledge
23 August 2016, 15:44
Got the PWS Gen. 2 buffer tube and ratchet lock system. Novel. I'll admit I've never personally staked a castle nut so this isn't a bad alternative. BAD EPS installed. Also my V7 dust cover was slightly loose on my 17" so I pulled it off and stuck it on here.

Nice choice on the dust cover. Keeps the upper from getting too complicated, IMO.

I like the gen 2 RE and wish they sold it separately.

UWone77
26 August 2016, 16:16
You should get it all cerakoted. Seems like several shades of black/gray between the receivers and extension.

Aragorn
26 August 2016, 17:05
You should get it all cerakoted. Seems like several shades of black/gray between the receivers and extension.

Yeah, Rainier's lower is ultra black, while the Bootleg upper and PWS buffer tube match the Aero receivers I have laying around. I've though about cerakote, but the lasering is so phenomenal and fine on the lower that I'm concerned some of the finer nuances (eyelashes, for instance) would be filled in.

Aragorn
26 August 2016, 17:50
Yeah, Rainier's lower is ultra black, while the Bootleg upper and PWS buffer tube match the Aero receivers I have laying around. I've though about cerakote, but the lasering is so phenomenal and fine on the lower that I'm concerned some of the finer nuances (eyelashes, for instance) would be filled in.

I guess that is to say, if anyone knows better, say something. I've never had anything cerakoted.

Aragorn
24 September 2016, 22:20
Ok gents, I need opinions. Not much performance debate here I don't think, it's pretty much all aesthetics.

The problem, my Eva lower, er, the engraved Rainer lower, is way WAY blacker than the Bootleg upper, so I've decided not to pair them. Instead she'll go on my 17" upper. Seems fitting, it's easily my most.... custom? I guess?... upper and the blacks are pretty close.

That free's up my Umbrella billet lower. The lines match up great with the Bootleg, but again the blacks are noticeably different, ALMOST to the degree of the Rainier lower. Nice lines, and I like the ADAC, but mismatched color.

Well... I have a third option. I have an Aero blem lower. Most Aero blem lowers I've seen I've hard time finding the blems on. Not so with this one. They're pretty obvious. Plus I added my own when I installed the bolt catch roll pin. Go figure. First time I've ever left a mar when building up a lower. Anyways, that lower is completely built up (along with an upper) that I intend to let go nearer to election. As fate would have it, that lower mates with the Bootleg upper as if God spoke to them and said "Thou shalt fit with divine perfection." The pins glide in as if buttered, there is only the tiniest ray of light between them when held up, and ONLY above the logo in front of the fence. Inserting a mag obviously closes that up. They have NO play. Push, pull, pry as I might, nothing happens. No wiggle. I'm not cheating with an accu-wedge either. Also the color is a dead match to the Bootleg upper.

I'm not normally so vane with my builds, and the Eva lower will still look slick and clean with my 17" upper. My question is do I use the Umbrella lower with the Bootleg? Or do I say fuck it and strip down the blem Aero, rebuild it with the parts I want for myself, and just accept the blems knowing it's gonna get beat up anyways. If I do that I'll have to order a new lower to build up and mate with the upper I'm gonna sell. Also puts my Umbrella in the safe with no immediate use in mind.

Thoughts? Opinions?

fledge
24 September 2016, 22:45
All these words about aesthetics and no pics to go with them??

When it comes to matching color, cerakote. Solid color cerakote is not expensive and will cover imperfections.

If all that's stopping you from using the Umbrella lower is the color, I'd go that route considering how you've laid out the plans to sell the complete Aero rifle.

Aragorn
24 September 2016, 22:55
It's dark out and my indoor lighting doesn't play well with the only camera I have... which happens to be installed inseparably from my phone.

I've thought cerakote, but to do a pair of receivers and a forend, it's actually cheaper to just buy a new forged lower. Actually what I was debating was Mad Black, which is basically a more hardcore MicroSlick that also happens to black.

The other thing, or really the PRIMARY thing is the fit. Seriously. I've never seen receivers fit like this, save for one set that had been lapped. The pragmatasist in me has accepted the Aero as functionally superior due to this. I mean sure, the Umbrella has better lines and ADAC... and I like the ADAC, but I also spent the last day and a half playing with a rifle with a BAD lever, which has left me wondering why I ever took mine off. I still have them.

Pics to come tomorrow.

fledge
24 September 2016, 23:36
If you coat it, go bold! I hear you on pricing but in a conversation on aesthetics, the difference isn't much in the scheme of things.

How tight a fit between receivers is necessary to matter?

But it sounds like you're talking yourself into the Aero. If so, coat it anyway. Grey is the new black. Then build a new upper for the umbrella once you sell the other rifle.

Yesterday with sniper grey:
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/SMOS/E61AD526-B2FA-4A7F-8F29-E53EA8F12B5A_zpsm4nrdtem.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/SMOS/E61AD526-B2FA-4A7F-8F29-E53EA8F12B5A_zpsm4nrdtem.jpg.html)

Pyzik
25 September 2016, 05:25
If you coat it, go bold! I hear you on pricing but in a conversation on aesthetics, the difference isn't much in the scheme of things.

How tight a fit between receivers is necessary to matter?

But it sounds like you're talking yourself into the Aero. If so, coat it anyway. Grey is the new black. Then build a new upper for the umbrella once you sell the other rifle.

Yesterday with sniper grey:
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/SMOS/E61AD526-B2FA-4A7F-8F29-E53EA8F12B5A_zpsm4nrdtem.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/SMOS/E61AD526-B2FA-4A7F-8F29-E53EA8F12B5A_zpsm4nrdtem.jpg.html)
Now that is sick

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GOST
25 September 2016, 06:47
If the Aero and Bootleg are that close of a match, I would definitely go with that and not Cerakote. The Bootleg is so busy that I wouldn't pair it with a busy billet lower. I would save the Umbrella till their billet uppers are released, or till you could get one of their forged uppers. I would try to keep that rifle as much Umbrella as you can.

Also if you use a BAD style lever a Phase 5's lines may go really well with that Bootleg upper. I've used the Phase 5 ones before and have been very pleased with them.

GOST
25 September 2016, 06:51
I get stuff Cerakoted only because my local guy does it for free for me. The reason I wouldn't Cerakote is that it cost more in most cases than a tax stamp. And what's cooler, pretty colors or stamps?

Aragorn
25 September 2016, 18:22
If the Aero and Bootleg are that close of a match, I would definitely go with that and not Cerakote. The Bootleg is so busy that I wouldn't pair it with a busy billet lower. I would save the Umbrella till their billet uppers are released, or till you could get one of their forged uppers. I would try to keep that rifle as much Umbrella as you can.

Also if you use a BAD style lever a Phase 5's lines may go really well with that Bootleg upper. I've used the Phase 5 ones before and have been very pleased with them.

I'm kinda leaning this way. I've got the matching PWS lower on order, but it'll be at least another 8 months before I see it. I'm half thinking about just letting the Bootleg sit until then, and getting a different, MATCHED set of receivers to finish out this build. No idea which receivers though. Honestly, I really just have no idea what I'm doing at this point.


I get stuff Cerakoted only because my local guy does it for free for me. The reason I wouldn't Cerakote is that it cost more in most cases than a tax stamp. And what's cooler, pretty colors or stamps?

Sage wisdom.

Pyzik
25 September 2016, 18:28
I get stuff Cerakoted only because my local guy does it for free for me. The reason I wouldn't Cerakote is that it cost more in most cases than a tax stamp. And what's cooler, pretty colors or stamps?
Never thought of it that way!

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fledge
25 September 2016, 18:35
And what's cooler, pretty colors or stamps?

Both is coolest.

I believe a built rifle is made to keep for the mission you intend. Build it the way you want for that mission, stamped or colored or not. $200 rarely seems to be an obstacle for many on WEVO and penny pinching isn't the profile for Rainier customers.

Aragorn, Rainier just added a PWS 14.5 upper to their inventory. Maybe that's the way to go and sell the bootleg upper you have.

Aragorn
25 September 2016, 18:49
Both is coolest.

I believe a built rifle is made to keep for the mission you intend. Build it the way you want for that mission, stamped or colored or not. $200 rarely seems to be an obstacle for many on WEVO and penny pinching isn't the profile for Rainier customers.

Aragorn, Rainier just added a PWS 14.5 upper to their inventory. Maybe that's the way to go and sell the bootleg upper you have.

AIM has had the 16" (which I'd prefer, as my scope is BDC for 16" shooting M193) for awhile. I'd love to jump but I can't drop the cash. If so I'd have had one, or an SR-15, some time ago. Only way I can afford to have nice rifles is to buy them a piece at a time.

An AXTS lower I think would be sweet with the Bootleg, but I think I'd have better luck finding pigs at 20,000ft than an AXTS lower. Plus, didn't they go for something like 350$? Don't have that much lying around at this particular moment either. Also wouldn't be surprised if it's black wasn't closer to the Rainier or Umbrella's than the Bootleg.

fledge
25 September 2016, 19:58
I hear you on piecing together. Though I know that it's often a wash compared to a nice factory rifle once everything is paid for.

The newer AXTS lower is cerakoted, even the black ones. :)

I think the old AXTS lowers were only anodized (mine is now pretty colors) but go for $750+ in the aftermarket. I originally bought mine for $400.

Of my lowers, the AXTS is the best match to the bootleg. The VSeven billet is a good match too because the cut lines in the design compliment each other. The San Tan lower lacks the left side pillar just like the Bootleg but the right side lines are a little off. Forged lowers just don't seem to look right with the bootleg. Too much old mixed with new for my preference.

Mine is mated to a Night rail and pairs with one of the lowers mentioned above.

Not sure if any of this helps.

GOST
25 September 2016, 20:20
Both is coolest.

I believe a built rifle is made to keep for the mission you intend. Build it the way you want for that mission, stamped or colored or not. $200 rarely seems to be an obstacle for many on WEVO and penny pinching isn't the profile for Rainier customers.


You must think that all WEVO members are UW and Sinner. I personally don't do any missions, I'm civilian as they come. A lot of Cerakote jobs for a complete rifle an run around $400, that's 2 stamps or half a decent suppressor. Pretty rifles are cool, but some of us have to pick and choose. I personally only keep a couple of AR's on hand, not counting my family heirlooms and handguns. For someone like me I would not spend the extra cash to Cerakote, I would rather buy a 1,000 rounds. Ammo is always my favorite, and yes I am a Rainier customer.

fledge
25 September 2016, 20:37
Not trying to pick a bone. And I completely understand your point. I'm civilian too but all firearms I have are purpose specific. Our budgets dictate priorities. I mention RA because those who shop their are aware of quality and willing to pay for it. I don't see a lot of bushmasters peddled here or there.

The OP didn't add cost in his criteria for this build. If he said "paint is out of budget," I wouldn't have mentioned it. A $400 paint job is fully custom camo treatment. A solid color can be had for much less.

The thread's topic is about the OP's priorities, which is basing this build around "happy, reliability and aesthetics" rather than cost. Paint is about all three, though more the first and the last and some of the middle.

alamo5000
25 September 2016, 20:53
You must think that all WEVO members are UW and Sinner. I personally don't do any missions, I'm civilian as they come. A lot of Cerakote jobs for a complete rifle an run around $400, that's 2 stamps or half a decent suppressor. Pretty rifles are cool, but some of us have to pick and choose. I personally only keep a couple of AR's on hand, not counting my family heirlooms and handguns. For someone like me I would not spend the extra cash to Cerakote, I would rather buy a 1,000 rounds. Ammo is always my favorite, and yes I am a Rainier customer.

Civilian here too. :)

I also don't do any missions but I get the idea of having a 'mission' or rather a 'purpose' behind a build, otherwise you wind up with a heavy varmint barrel on an AR with a 1x red dot and a PDW stock on the thing...Nothing says mall ninja like a bunch of mismatched crap thrown together.

I am still 100% with you on the money. Rainier or not money doesn't grow on trees. I wish I had the cash to spend on all my whims. At the same time I like nice stuff.

At the end of the day I think we all enjoy nice stuff but on a more basic level we like shooting even more. I imagine if we had musket day as a group we would go out and have a ball. Then after that we would be looking at Uwone and Stickman's awesome collection of muskets and their piles of lead balls 3 foot deep.

I am of the school that one should be prudent with whatever funds they have at their disposal. If I bought everything on here that I see in pics that I like I would have spent about $2m bucks so far...

Yes we want to make it about gear but not so much that it overrides the shooting part. Shopping at Rainier doesn't mean people have no budget that should adhere to.

alamo5000
25 September 2016, 20:57
The thread's topic is about the OP's priorities,

Personally, not to put words in his mouth, but I think he just wants to have a nice rifle. Came to a bump in the road and is asking for other opinions.

GOST
25 September 2016, 21:02
I'm just voicing my opinion just as you have. We all have different priorities and taste. Even if I had endless funds I would still recommend either stamps or ammo over Cerakote.

fledge
25 September 2016, 21:04
Fair enough.

Joelski
26 September 2016, 03:50
Learn to shoot it and get certified (the Cerakote). Nothing wrong with letting other people pay for your habit!

GOST
26 September 2016, 05:28
Learn to shoot it and get certified (the Cerakote). Nothing wrong with letting other people pay for your habit!

Very true, local guy does really good work but I'm still amazed at what he gets. $300 for a single color per rifle and $450 for patterns. He makes out best when he trades work.

Aragorn
26 September 2016, 09:30
Never considered getting into the cerakote game... now that it's been brought up I think I'd actually consider doing it if I had the space (I live in a 2 bedroom apartment).
I am planning on getting a house next year so... maybe then?

Fledge, would you be so kind as to shoot some photos of your Bootleg upper with the various lowers you mentioned? Both sides if you please?

fledge
26 September 2016, 10:25
AXTS
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/Bootleg/17FED179-B09F-4711-91A2-2B8AEEDFD1DE_zps3e5gydbw.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/Bootleg/17FED179-B09F-4711-91A2-2B8AEEDFD1DE_zps3e5gydbw.jpg.html)
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/Bootleg/1ED1791B-55D7-4BC1-825C-C07C2EEC9167_zpstrfaxjcw.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/Bootleg/1ED1791B-55D7-4BC1-825C-C07C2EEC9167_zpstrfaxjcw.jpg.html)

VSeven
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/Bootleg/65338BCE-767F-4851-B2AB-768FA47B9AE6_zpsemabtabo.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/Bootleg/65338BCE-767F-4851-B2AB-768FA47B9AE6_zpsemabtabo.jpg.html)
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/Bootleg/B0BDBC59-FACD-4D7A-BCCE-20E1D3A0F68E_zps2dwtesct.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/Bootleg/B0BDBC59-FACD-4D7A-BCCE-20E1D3A0F68E_zps2dwtesct.jpg.html)

SanTan
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/Bootleg/8D4D875B-7346-4614-A43E-4AB6BCCA41E6_zpshany6xvx.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/Bootleg/8D4D875B-7346-4614-A43E-4AB6BCCA41E6_zpshany6xvx.jpg.html)
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/Bootleg/CADEE2A8-3322-4608-90F8-62D9CABF86A3_zpsokcttgqk.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/Bootleg/CADEE2A8-3322-4608-90F8-62D9CABF86A3_zpsokcttgqk.jpg.html)

You can engrave Eva on that SanTan too. ;)

Aragorn
26 September 2016, 10:44
Oh man those are all gorgeous. Especially the AXTS. Is that one phosphate? The color looks close on all of them.

Aragorn
26 September 2016, 12:39
Debating abandoning the Bootleg upper until I can get the matching PWS lower, or perhaps even entirely.
Especially after seeing this.

http://m.imgur.com/gallery/F7MNU

Ignoring how fugly it is in general, it doesn't even mate well with the BCM forend, which is another part I've already got for it. Doesn't go with the forend, or any lower I have or can get... causing more frustration than anything.

UWone77
26 September 2016, 12:51
Maybe I'm missing something, what's the allure of the bootleg?

UWone77
26 September 2016, 12:53
And..... because of Fledge, I think I need a V7 Build.

Aragorn
26 September 2016, 13:12
Maybe I'm missing something, what's the allure of the bootleg?

I like how it looks.

I mean, it's slightly lighter, has a few features to supposedly make it better... but hardly quantifiable if at all (other than the weight, which is quantifiable).

Mostly to me it was kind of like a 100$ cheaper Battle Arms Developement upper.

UWone77
26 September 2016, 13:15
I like how it looks.

I mean, it's slightly lighter, has a few features to supposedly make it better... but hardly quantifiable if at all (other than the weight, which is quantifiable).

Mostly to me it was kind of like a 100$ cheaper Battle Arms Developement upper.

Well as long as you like it. [:)]

Aragorn
26 September 2016, 13:20
Well as long as you like it. [:)]

Yeah... about that...

Starting to seem like it requires very select components to not look retarded.

fledge
26 September 2016, 13:37
UW, I only need the V7 stripped upper receiver and my build is under way (14.5").

Aragorn, I think the bootleg has a place. It's better looking than the BAD upper (I had two of those and sold them cause they just are weird). But outside the bootleg picmod rail, the Night rail is the closest thing I've found that looks good. And the Night is its own polarizing design.

The fortis upper is nice, by the way. Looks good on a BAD lower too.

I'm not sure the Cerakote color black used on the AXTS. It's just listed as "black" on their site. It's similar to annodizing color. It's not like the Teflon appearance of the Noveske sets these days.

UWone77
26 September 2016, 13:43
Personally, I wouldn't care about the color difference too much. A few range sessions and throwing it in some dirt will make it right as rain.

fledge, I've been eye balling a V7 Billet Set with the handguards & barrel... but of course I need another AR like I need a hole in my head. Definitely curious to see yours when it's done.

Haven't built up anything AR wise in awhile, so I'm hoping to keep it that way till at least next year. I've got a couple of projects that I'd stalled on just because I don't feel like buying the parts.

Aragorn
26 September 2016, 13:44
I was actually looking through my gallery, as well as the AR pic thread on here, and also took note of the Fortis. Maybe that's what I need for my engraved lower, or simply just a Rainier forged upper...

Then just let the Bootleg sit. Or sell it.

Aragorn
26 September 2016, 13:48
Personally, I wouldn't care about the color difference too much. A few range sessions and throwing it in some dirt will make it right as rain.

fledge, I've been eye balling a V7 Billet Set with the handguards & barrel... but of course I need another AR like I need a hole in my head. Definitely curious to see yours when it's done.

Haven't built up anything AR wise in awhile, so I'm hoping to keep it that way till at least next year. I've got a couple of projects that I'd stalled on just because I don't feel like buying the parts.

It's more than just color. Lines don't match well where the B-Pillar/Fence just ends abruptly with pretty much any lower. Perhaps even more so is the widened barrel nut interface. Rules out a lot of forend, and doesn't see, to match well with some of the ones that do fit. The exceptions being the Nightrail and of course Bootlegs own forend.

fledge
26 September 2016, 13:50
UW, it's on my plate next. I'll update the thread when I get it assembled... And then pinned. I am doing the V7 to replace the 2a Balios I sold (hated trigger guard cuts) as the "lightweight build." It'll be a good one to get my wife interested in rifles.

Just saw that Bootleg is now on Gunstruction. Now you can pair it with a lot of awful options, Aragorn. Haha

Aragorn
26 September 2016, 13:58
Fledge, you wouldn't happen to have a San Tan upper to take a pic with a standard forged lower would you? Since I now seem to be entertaining the ideas of replacing the upper..

ETA: Or a Fortis for that matter?

fledge
26 September 2016, 14:19
I can do both. I'll try to get to it tonight.

Aragorn
26 September 2016, 15:06
I can do both. I'll try to get to it tonight.

Had no idea you had so much cool stuff. Thanks!

UWone77
26 September 2016, 15:08
Had no idea you had so much cool stuff. Thanks!

fledge is the silent spender...

GOST
26 September 2016, 18:04
I'm not sure the Cerakote color black used on the AXTS. It's just listed as "black" on their site. It's similar to annodizing color. It's not like the Teflon appearance of the Noveske sets these days.

The black Cerakote used by Noveske is Armor Black. I can't speak for AXTS but the black that a lot of other manufacturers use is Graphite Black. Graphite Black is more black, while Armor Black is slightly grayish or Teflon in appearance as you mentioned. Graphite Black is a real close match to the anodizing of the Battle Arms forged lowers or Rainier gen 2 uppers, hope that helps.

fledge
26 September 2016, 21:42
Noveske forged lower.

Fortis upper:
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/Noveske/86E4A919-95F9-400C-BC5E-9C94317892F4_zpsaf39re0y.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/Noveske/86E4A919-95F9-400C-BC5E-9C94317892F4_zpsaf39re0y.jpg.html)
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/Noveske/BED01C4A-85ED-439E-8E20-B019CE5D2EBA_zps1tqis9my.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/Noveske/BED01C4A-85ED-439E-8E20-B019CE5D2EBA_zps1tqis9my.jpg.html)

SanTan
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/Noveske/17D73A5E-203A-4862-85C6-22652308CAEE_zps40h7igpe.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/Noveske/17D73A5E-203A-4862-85C6-22652308CAEE_zps40h7igpe.jpg.html)
http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/Noveske/63C437EB-81F8-435E-9B9C-0890E7D14883_zpssa8firqi.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/Noveske/63C437EB-81F8-435E-9B9C-0890E7D14883_zpssa8firqi.jpg.html)

fledge
26 September 2016, 21:46
fledge is the silent spender...

Or I coincidentally happen to be asked questions I can answer.... Haha


Graphite Graphite Black is a real close match to the anodizing of the Battle Arms forged lowers or Rainier gen 2 uppers, hope that helps.

Gotta remember that. Thanks! My guess is that AXTS is using graphite black.

Aragorn
26 September 2016, 21:55
The Fortis looks really good. Lines match up perfectly on both sides. Hmmmm may have to do that... If I can find one in stock.

fledge
26 September 2016, 22:23
I was going to mention that but didn't want to persuade you. :)

It's a solid upper. It has styling with restraint. The trick like always is matching a rail. I'm waiting for the fortis 10" night rail to be released (soon!) as this will be on a BAD SBR.

Aragorn
26 September 2016, 22:32
I don't really think it would do badly with a KMR-A. It doesn't have the giant barrel nut interface like the Bootleg.

Can't think of a reason it would have bad flow. Really, the Bootleg is the only upper I've seen that makes a KMR look out of place.

Joelski
27 September 2016, 03:48
Debating abandoning the Bootleg upper until I can get the matching PWS lower, or perhaps even entirely.
Especially after seeing this.

http://m.imgur.com/gallery/F7MNU

Ignoring how fugly it is in general, it doesn't even mate well with the BCM forend, which is another part I've already got for it. Doesn't go with the forend, or any lower I have or can get... causing more frustration than anything.
Some o'that sweet Magpaul furniture'll fix it right up!

fledge
27 September 2016, 10:04
The KMR is understated so I imagine it will look fine. It also has a tool look to it, though, which contrasts the more creative appearance of the fortis, IMO.

Another option to complement that rail and a forged lower is the well respected Vltor MUR upper. And it an understated tool design and less expensive than fortis. You can get with or without FA. That would go well with the KMR.

Example of the MUR on Noveske forged. This photo belongs to Cornbread.

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/Noveske/B92A8912-52F6-4DD3-9F68-5AD100D56183_zpsr7jxkmpm.jpeg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/Noveske/B92A8912-52F6-4DD3-9F68-5AD100D56183_zpsr7jxkmpm.jpeg.html)

Aragorn
27 September 2016, 10:09
Yeah, the MUR is also in the debate. Used to have one though, even matched with a forge lower so I know exactly what it looks like.

Still not sure. We'll see. Probably be either the Fortis or MUR though. MUR has the advantage of having the lower FA and being cheaper. Not sure if I'm partial to the Fortis in appearance, I feel like I might be. No way to know how either would look with a KMR. Google has not been helpful with that.

GOST
27 September 2016, 10:39
Here's one I was considering using with a forged lower. The 2A armament has the lower FA like the MUR but has similar lines to a forged upper. These some pics they sent when I asked how well it would match up with a forged lower. The newer version of this upper doesn't have the flare up front.

1737

1738

1739

http://2a-arms.com/collections/receivers/products/balios-upper-receiver

fledge
27 September 2016, 10:58
That's clean.

Aragorn
27 September 2016, 11:09
Here's one I was considering using with a forged lower. The 2A armament has the lower FA like the MUR but has similar lines to a forged upper. These some pics they sent when I asked how well it would match up with a forged lower. The newer version of this upper doesn't have the flare up front.

1737

1738

1739

http://2a-arms.com/collections/receivers/products/balios-upper-receiver

Hey now that's not bad either! Wonder if the weight they listed is with or without the upper parts kit (guessing not). I know the fortis is advertised with the weight of the kit installed.

Super clean...

GOST
27 September 2016, 12:00
You're correct the 7.8 is stripped.

Former11B
28 September 2016, 07:40
I'm kinda leaning this way. I've got the matching PWS lower on order, but it'll be at least another 8 months before I see it. I'm half thinking about just letting the Bootleg sit until then, and getting a different, MATCHED set of receivers to finish out this build. No idea which receivers though. Honestly, I really just have no idea what I'm doing at this point.



Sage wisdom.

Spray paint is like $3/can

Aragorn
28 September 2016, 09:56
Spray paint is like $3/can

REALLY?! Where can I get some?!

UWone77
28 September 2016, 10:07
REALLY?! Where can I get some?!

Clear coat and rustoleum. Jeff Cross used that combo on the CMT 9mm PDW's at the NWSSE. Everyone thought it was powder coated and wanted that to be the finish of the production gun, until he told them what it actually was. [:D]

Aragorn
28 September 2016, 10:29
Clear coat and rustoleum. Jeff Cross used that combo on the CMT 9mm PDW's at the NWSSE. Everyone thought it was powder coated and wanted that to be the finish of the production gun, until he told them what it actually was. [:D]

...that's actually kind of awesome and amusing. Where can I see a pic of this?

UWone77
28 September 2016, 10:35
...that's actually kind of awesome and amusing. Where can I see a pic of this?

Paging James... post some of those CMT PDW Pics!

Former11B
28 September 2016, 10:50
Clear coat and rustoleum. Jeff Cross used that combo on the CMT 9mm PDW's at the NWSSE. Everyone thought it was powder coated and wanted that to be the finish of the production gun, until he told them what it actually was. [:D]

Yep. I clear coated a couple of my rattle canned rifles and it gave it a slightly bumpy texture (not like sandpaper or anything, just not smooth like spraypaint done properly).

Unless I just HAD to have a woodland pattern or something (probably the only one I'd do), I'll stick to rattle cans. How they look when they get nice and worn is an added bonus.

fledge
28 September 2016, 10:53
This one?

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/Misc/2D5622C9-813B-40AF-B5D5-7A9518992B64_zpsqjvfyks9.jpeg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/Misc/2D5622C9-813B-40AF-B5D5-7A9518992B64_zpsqjvfyks9.jpeg.html)

Aragorn
28 September 2016, 10:57
This one?

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/fledge2000/Misc/2D5622C9-813B-40AF-B5D5-7A9518992B64_zpsqjvfyks9.jpeg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/fledge2000/media/Misc/2D5622C9-813B-40AF-B5D5-7A9518992B64_zpsqjvfyks9.jpeg.html)

I saw that pic and thought it was just In the White. Didnt realize there was a finish there.

11B, I may have to go browse some of your photos. Pretty sure I'm not planning to rattlecan anything, but my interest is certainly piqued.

UWone77
28 September 2016, 11:00
I saw that pic and thought it was just In the White. Didnt realize there was a finish there.

11B, I may have to go browse some of your photos. Pretty sure I'm not planning to rattlecan anything, but my interest is certainly piqued.

That pic I believe just has the rustoleum, no clear coat.

Pyzik
28 September 2016, 11:11
Clear coat and rustoleum. Jeff Cross used that combo on the CMT 9mm PDW's at the NWSSE. Everyone thought it was powder coated and wanted that to be the finish of the production gun, until he told them what it actually was. [:D]

I thought it was powder coat too from the Rainier pic above.
He must have a much better rattle can hand than me! EVERYONE would know mine was spray painted... lol.

Former11B
28 September 2016, 13:18
I saw that pic and thought it was just In the White. Didnt realize there was a finish there.

11B, I may have to go browse some of your photos. Pretty sure I'm not planning to rattlecan anything, but my interest is certainly piqued.

I'll see about taking some new non-iPotato ones tonight after the tiny human goes to bed

Dstrbdmedic167
28 September 2016, 16:39
Couple pics of the CMT PDW

1750

1751

Former11B
28 September 2016, 17:30
Well that's about the coolest thing I've seen all week

din
28 September 2016, 17:51
Meh. I'll never understand the appeal of pistol-caliber carbines.

Dstrbdmedic167
28 September 2016, 17:55
Meh. I'll never understand the appeal of pistol-caliber carbines.

Do you steal all the toys from whoville? You grinch...

UWone77
28 September 2016, 18:18
Meh. I'll never understand the appeal of pistol-caliber carbines.

It's all about having fun range toys.

Aragorn
29 November 2016, 14:20
Boom! She's done! She's also somewhat of a radical deviation from original parts list... but whatever!

Here's the ending specs from tip to tail.

Micor 1/8 Flash Suppressor
PWS 16" Barrel
MicroMOA Baby Govnah Gas Block ported at .070
Melonited Gas Tube
BCM KMR Alpha 15"
Aero Upper w/ V7 Dust Cover and Forward Controls LDFA
Sharp's Relia-Bolt and Balanced Bolt Carrier w/ V7 Cam Pin
Geissele Charging Handle
Rainier Lower & Trigger Guard
Geissele SD3g
BAD EPS
Forward Controls EMR
LWRC Safety Selector
Umbrella Grip done up in Fishnets by BC
PWS Ratchet End Plate and Receiver Extension
Magpul SL Stock w/ Extended Buttpad
Remaining internals are Colt

Accessories -
Surefire m300 in an Arisaka Offset Mount
Magpul MBUS Pro's
Trijicon Accupower riding in a Bobro Extended R9 mount
BCM Rail Panels

2225

2226

2227

2228

2229

I did a substantial amount of corresponding while doing this build, primarily with Slippers and JGifford who both really know their $h!t, as well as with Springco and MicroMOA. I got pretty deep into the nitty-gritty details such as extractor/ejector spring rates, proper gas port sizing, and ideal buffer/spring weights. JGifford hooked me up with a Green Ken Elmore extractor spring. I was going to get Colt ejector spring to pair with it, but missed them in stock. According to Springco, their ejector springs are a tiny bit stronger than Mil-spec so I grabbed one of those instead. My PWS barrel came with an oversized gas port that measured .082. I debated getting another adjustable gas block, but didn't really want to go that route with this build so I got ahold of MicroMOA. I gave them the specs of the rifle and they recommended me an ideal gas port size of .070, and that with a Springco White Spring and H2 buffer it should be totally reliable even in full-auto (which I certainly won't be using). They also told me I could probably go *slightly* smaller on the gas port since I was using a reliable-bolt and for some reason they cycle with less gas, but they hadn't tested it with a 16" middy yet so I stuck with .070 and had them drill me Baby Govnah downsized to that. I also called Sharp's about the relia-bolt to see how things had gone since their recall early this year. They informed me they had a couple returned afterwords, but the people who had sent them in had all purchased them from sources such as E-Bay or Craig's List and were suspected to be units not returned during the recall. I also inquired about their extractor material and was surprised to find out it was 4340, which is top of Mil-spec and also what Umbrella sells. Nice.

So, I didn't end up with a pretty billet upper (I *kinda* wish I'd have sprung for a Fortis), but she's got it in all the places that count. I'm hoping to be on the ground this weekend so I'll have a chance to see how she runs!

fledge
29 November 2016, 15:49
Looks beautiful. Form and function. The FDE stock is bold but easily swapped out. Nicely done. Looking forward to hear how she runs.

Aragorn
29 November 2016, 17:26
Looks beautiful. Form and function. The FDE stock is bold but easily swapped out. Nicely done. Looking forward to hear how she runs.

Thanks! Yeah, I typically don't run black stocks because not all the ranges I frequent have covered benches, and letting a black stock soak in summer sunlight in mid-south while you run a timer for a buddy.... yeah it'll get your attention when you cheek it next. But yeah, eager to get it out, see if the smoothness is as much as I'm anticipating. Also want to see how that PWS barrel does for accuracy.

fledge
29 November 2016, 18:51
letting a black stock soak in summer sunlight in mid-south while you run a timer for a buddy.... yeah it'll get your attention when you cheek it next.

That makes a lot of sense.