Rifle Building?

[alamo5000]

I have a very specific question about the legalities of doing something. There is this old guy around town here who apparently has redneck oil money. Bona fide trailer park with a fat ass bank account. Well he likes me a lot and is very friendly...and has hunted me down (again) and asked me to build him two rifles for the 12th time already. I guess he likes my anal retentive style [BD]

Mainly I think he knows that I follow things to some degree and at least know who to ask so that he can have some bad ass stuff.

I saw him again today (he came to my work actually), nice as could be...and asked about it again. His quote was 'build em how you would like em and send me the bill'. My impressions are that money isn't really that big of an obstacle.

I am sure I could score a reciever set or something out of the deal, but there are still a number of issues that I want to clear up and make sure of.

If I buy the recievers and then transfer them to him theoretically it could be a problem because on the forms it asks 'are you the person' and I really don't want to lie about it. That said I can easily verify that he's legal to own a firearm by taking a copy of his CHL which he wouldn't mind a bit. In Texas this is actually the law where if you present a valid CHL to a dealer or FFL they just say 'sign here' and off you go.

I could have him go the FFL and get the recievers and I just get all the rest myself...but I am not sure how to approach it. Really though I am not talking about some grand production line. It's two rifles but it got me thinking about what all constitutes a build, a gun smith, a transfer and so on and so forth.

I would think the guy could easily budget 10 grand or more for two .308 builds so there won't be much scrimping going on so there is a high possibility that he will be showing off said rifles all around town should we get them all built.

Any ideas? Comments? Expert opinions? If it was just the neighbor up the road that would be one thing, but this guy is a different situation and I am not on overly personal grounds with him. That said if I told him "I need 10 grand up front" he would probably write me a check right then and there.

I guess it's a weird but good spot to be in.

[UWone77]

I don't mess around with stuff like this without an FFL.

If he wants to have you build him 2 rifles, I'd tell him, that he can go buy his own lowers and come over and you can assist him.

[alamo5000]

I don't mess around with stuff like this without an FFL.

If he wants to have you build him 2 rifles, I'd tell him, that he can go buy his own lowers and come over and you can assist him.

I was thinking the same thing too when it comes to the lowers. The hand guards and barrels and whatever other stuff... he'd be paying my ass to shop for him so I don't mind doing that so long as I don't get put in a financial bind only to have some bullshit reason 2 months from now where the deal falls through.

Unlikely but I am going to cover my ass in more ways than one if we decide to do this.

That all said it would be kind of nice doing a money's no object build or two even if it's with somebody else's money.

[Stone]

And if something goes wrong like he blows a rifle up, you are now legally liable. Get the money up front(rule #1) NEVER invest your own money in someone else's ideas. Have him sign a waiver. "'build em how you would like em and send me the bill'. If he walked into a store could he walk out with a rifle without paying for it first? GET THE MONEY UP FRONT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[alamo5000]

And if something goes wrong like he blows a rifle up, you are now legally liable. Get the money up front(rule #1) NEVER invest your own money in someone else's ideas. Have him sign a waiver. "'build em how you would like em and send me the bill'. If he walked into a store could he walk out with a rifle without paying for it first? GET THE MONEY UP FRONT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On one hand I would like to do it merely for the fact that I would like to be ordering all that stuff and spending money like water including high end glass... but other than that aspect the whole thing sounds like a pain in the ass to be honest.

[DeviantLogic]

Pretty much what UW said. I definitely wouldn't buy a lower in your name, for him.

I honestly wouldn't want to have a reputation around town as "the gun guy". Some things are better kept on the down-low.

[Eric]

And remember that old but accurate saying...no good deed will go unpunished.

[alamo5000]

Pretty much what UW said. I definitely wouldn't buy a lower in your name, for him.

I honestly wouldn't want to have a reputation around town as "the gun guy". Some things are better kept on the down-low.

Even though he's a good guy I am on board with a fat 'no' for buying him lowers.

As for having the reputation of being a 'gun guy'... too late for that. I have cops and sheriff's deputies and DPS guys and other people all asking opinions about stuff from time to time. Given most of them are desk jockeys but there is one guy who went through sniper school (when he was in the military) and he and I get along great. We can talk shop all day and we get along good too.

That said they all know I am harmless...I've been kind of careful about 'how' people know me... guns yes... but the angry asshole gun guy... no...

There are a number of guys who want me to take them out to these long range spots I have (a rare thing around here) so word gets around...but yes it's important to me to be the anti asshole. That way when I have a truck bed full of firearms nobody thinks I'm some lunatic.

Basically I go out of my way to try and be a level headed person and try to come across as a 'professional' in my demeanor....

I see myself as an ambassador to shooting sports... people ask me 'why' and I say 'some people make model rockets.... I shoot guns way out there... there is a lot of science involved'.... and it takes the edge off especially to non Texans who are being bombarded with negatives about guns...


And remember that old but accurate saying...no good deed will go unpunished.

This is true. I think if I crack that door open I will have more people wanting me to do it for them, which in ways is ok and could mean opportunity... but do I really want to go down that road...

If I had my way I would get my own 10 grand to blow and build my own stuff. Only with me I need like 100 grand... LOL

[alamo5000]

I honestly wouldn't want to have a reputation around town as "the gun guy". Some things are better kept on the down-low.

Kind of adding onto that I encourage people to go shooting more and to learn to shoot or whatever. I've had single moms with boys they can't handle and I am like 'let them learn how to shoot!' so that they can actually act like men for once...I have gotten at least a dozen people to conceal carry... and other things of that nature... and even kind of disarming 'helicopter moms' who think their baby is gonna get hurt...

Just take them out and show them how to shoot and be safe when doing so... and 99% of the time they come away as way more gun friendly...all the way up to buying guns...

But in my job(s) I've always had very high contact and profile with the community around where I am at... so people know me just from that...

I also encourage people to not be an idiot with a gun... but to get more into it. All different kinds of things...

But I definitely take a lot of caution in not being seen as the weird guy with a gun fetish.

It's kind of hard to explain but I think you get the idea...

[Joelski]

Do yourself a favor and get some validation. If you're going to make a cent, you need to have a legitimate background. NRA instructor courses, manufacturer certified Armorer courses and real gunsmith training and education add credibility to your reputation in a way nothing else can match. You're starting with a rep based primarily on opinion. It takes exactly one screw up to unrecoverably hose a rep with no substance to it. Repair work is the backbone of what you seek. Any swingin' dick can slap parts together; learn to fix a FTF without hosing the trigger on Joe's favorite gun and you are a God (as far as Joe's concerned, at least). That's the stuff you want people talking about. Anybody can be a nice guy. Be nice and good at fixing shit.

[SINNER]

Nope. First off I don't allow people I don't know very well to even come to my home. I have 2 close friends who I will help out when it comes to firearms. Other than that I see no gain and a good bit of risk from working on firearms.

Honestly I can't imagine the ensuing nightmare if a weapon I built was used in a mass shooting or a serious crime.

[UWone77]

Do yourself a favor and get some validation. If you're going to make a cent, you need to have a legitimate background. NRA instructor courses, manufacturer certified Armorer courses and real gunsmith training and education add credibility to your reputation in a way nothing else can match. You're starting with a rep based primarily on opinion. It takes exactly one screw up to unrecoverably hose a rep with no substance to it. Repair work is the backbone of what you seek. Any swingin' dick can slap parts together; learn to fix a FTF without hosing the trigger on Joe's favorite gun and you are a God (as far as Joe's concerned, at least). That's the stuff you want people talking about. Anybody can be a nice guy. Be nice and good at fixing shit.

This...


Nope. First off I don't allow people I don't know very well to even come to my home. I have 2 close friends who I will help out when it comes to firearms. Other than that I see no gain and a good bit of risk from working on firearms.

Honestly I can't imagine the ensuing nightmare if a weapon I built was used in a mass shooting or a serious crime.

and This...

Not really worth the pennies you'll make on this "transaction" Besides do you even have the tools to build an AR10? I don't get the impression you've put together a .308. Sounds like you like the idea of a very large budget more than anything.

[alamo5000]

This...



and This...

Not really worth the pennies you'll make on this "transaction" Besides do you even have the tools to build an AR10? I don't get the impression you've put together a .308. Sounds like you like the idea of a very large budget more than anything.

In all honesty that's ALL it is... and the guy said straight up that he would pay for whatever tools/services I needed to get it done. So if I needed this wrench or that one... just buy it. Basically it's playing with other people's money.

Despite what I mentioned above and getting free tools, AND he offered to pay me on top of it all... but he really doesn't want to come over. He just wants a nice rifle where someone hands it to him and says 'here you go'...

Despite all that I'm not getting my hopes up for a variety of reasons.

Basically for a long time I worked in a bank here so half the town knows me on a first name basis (including the cops I mentioned) and other people. I tried my best to take care of people so I was like their go to guy...so in my position I had people chit chatting and wanting to talk or get to know me or whatever...so some people talk golf and I learned to talk about guns in a way where it wasn't 'weird' even for non gun people.

So what's tempting is 1) I get to experiment and pick parts and build stuff using other people's money and that includes working out said kinks 2) I can get a reciever set or whatever I want plus tools and maybe a little side cash for the job too... That is really the ONLY reasons why I am even entertaining the notion.

It's not like he's going to even want to come over to my house and build it. He just wants it done and so that he can tell his buddies that I did it for him.

As tempting as all that is though I am still hesitant to go down that road. As much as I like guns I don't know if I want to go be a small town gunsmith. It's possible but I am not sure about all that just yet.

[alamo5000]

We have a small pond so to speak around here so people know me. Just about 3/4 of all the public officials from the DA to the Sheriff...a good number of law enforcement... and a lot of those people are very friendly to me, IE I will eat dinner and they come over to my table to say hi and greet me or whatever...

But all that is a different story from starting to build rifles for people for a living.

[UWone77]

If you plan to build rifles for profit, I suggest you get the appropriate FFL and go take some armorer classes / gunsmithing school.

[EO3]

Did anyone mention get the money up front if you decide to proceed? [BD]

[alamo5000]

The guy asking is kind of a hoot. It's like the Beverly Hillbillies. He got stupid oil money, like $7m in the bank net after tax (so he can buy a rifle from anyone he wants), paid off his trailer house (where he still lives), bought himself a new truck and basically has nothing to worry about. He has zero f##ks to give and for some reason he's not into it because of my gun smith prowess.

The whole thing is pretty comical to be honest. He is a nice guy though. Very much so.

All that said though if he presses me on it I am going to tell him no. Despite some of the perks that could come from it I just don't even want to bother getting into it right now.

[alamo5000]

Where is Jeff Foxworthy when we need him? LOL!

You might be a redneck if you have $7m dollars in the bank because they discovered oil on your property but you STILL live in a trailer house....

[gatordev]

You keep posting, but at this point, I think you're trying to convince yourself and not us.

[UWone77]

The whole thing is pretty comical to be honest.

First thing in this thread that I would agree with you on. [:D]

[Stone]

Did anyone mention get the money up front if you decide to proceed? [BD]

THIS!

[alamo5000]

First thing in this thread that I would agree with you on. [:D]

You mean except for the part where I decided to tell him no?

[alamo5000]

You keep posting, but at this point, I think you're trying to convince yourself and not us.

I've never been attempting to persuade you guys to do anything. I've just been trying to make a wise and more educated choice is all.


Did anyone mention get the money up front if you decide to proceed? [BD]

I'm not gonna mess with even trying to build the guy a gun. Yeah, could have some upsides... but in the end not worth the hassles.

On balance it was a novelty thing and yeah I would have come out ahead but I'm just not gonna do it for a number of reasons.

If he was like 'I have these parts and want to learn how to put it all together' or even anything like that... maybe that's different....MAYBE... but even then I'm not a gun smith and there are plenty of em around that are including a few that will show him how to do it all in the process.

[Aragorn]

Could always just help him pick the parts, have them delivered to him and have him pick up the lower, then just send it to ADCO or Rainier to be built.

Drops you from any liability, and you'd prob still get to handle the finished product if you're wanting to handle the nice glass or whatever.

Not saying that's what you should or shouldn't do, just throwing it out there.