Barrels: Ballistic Advantage, Noveske, Rainier Arms

[rxer311]

I am looking for a barrel for my next high quality build. (Forget my post below about the 13.7" barrel...going with a 14.5") I know that I want to go with a 14.5" barrel but am torn about which way to go.

I am building off of a Rainier Arms forged receiver set with a 12" SLR rifleworks keymod rail as seen here:
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n164/rxer311/15078607_1229932930401093_5722022895983106668_n_zp s3twlxhrn.jpg

1. You could call me a Noveske fan boy and I have been leaning towards a Noveske Afghan barrel. I have 2 Noveske CHF 14.5" barrels and they have been awesome but have yet to use one of their stainless barrels. Would love to put one on this gun, but at a price tag of $400-$430 I could probably get a better bang for my buck elsewhere. I also do know that I could expect a 15000 round life expectancy out of this barrel. Also, I get a pinned on gas block.

2. I am building off the Rainier Arms receiver so naturally I was looking at their barrels. I had one of their 14.5" select barrels in the past and it was an absolute tack driver. I had some issues with my gas block on it and since I had a pinned FH on it I had ADCO cut it down to 13.7" and pin on a KX3 flash hider. Believe it or not, I actually liked that barrel in the shorter configuration, but I eventually got tired of it and sold off the upper. I kind of regret it. I am looking at getting another select barrel or going with one of their rock creek barrels. The cost of this is in the middle of my options but I would have to purchase a gas block and pay to have it pinned (all my gas blocks are pinned and I don't do otherwise).

3. Ballistic Advantage barrels seem to have a pretty good reputation around here for very good quality at a value price. I have yet to use one for myself. With this barrel, however, I would achieve the lightest weight (Hanson profile), with a pinned gas block included. I am wondering, however, about the expected barrel life of one of their stainless barrels compared to the Noveske and Rainier arms barrels of which I am familiar with. That does lead me into the option of getting one of their melonite barrels. I was really wanting to do this build with a stainless barrel, but this does give me another option. With such a fantastic price I can get some of the other parts I need to finish this rifle and possibly finish it before Christmas for a Merry Christmas present for me.

Over the past day I have had all 3 of these barrels in a shopping cart at various retailers but have not pulled the trigger yet. I guess I am a bit undecided on what my best option would be in this situation.

[alamo5000]

I asked about the BA barrels and it's a 10-15K round barrel. This obviously depends on your shooting habits.

If you want to get the maximum bang for the life buck then see the mountain series from Rainier. I've been looking at those for a really long time although I've never used one before. I think you can pick one up for around $300 bucks. If you ever shoot one of those out let me know...in like 10 or 20 years from now. They are made the same way a M249 machine gun barrel is made.

I have a long list of 'want' items and an upper with one of those barrels on it is on the list... that will probably be another AR build for me at some point but I have too many things to buy as is.

On one of my AR's I've been using a Rainier Select medcon and it is easily a sub MOA shooter with the right ammo.

On my SBR I have a 10.5 BA barrel but I haven't bothered to do any extreme accuracy shooting with it. To me that's sort of a pointless exercise considering what it's on and how I am shooting it. Minute of Man is good enough for me on that although I can tell you that it's capable of way better than that.

With that being said I don't see the need to get a Noveske barrel when you can get as good or better performance for 100 something bucks less. I've never gotten on the Noveske bandwagon but then again I've only been in the AR world since after Mr. Noveske passed.

[Default.mp3]

Ballistic Advantage is a budget option for a reason: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?186319-AR-15-Gas-Ports-Krieger-versus-Ballistic-Advantage&highlight=

They're not bad for what they are, they're simply not the best barrel around.

[fledge]

May as well look at VSeven and Griffin barrels too, if you are going stainless.

[Axlnut]

Ballistic Advantage is a budget option for a reason: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?186319-AR-15-Gas-Ports-Krieger-versus-Ballistic-Advantage&highlight=

They're not bad for what they are, they're simply not the best barrel around.

The gas port in the groove thing is super debatable. In testing (print article I have to find again) that variable alone has shown no effect on consistency. Some are all about it, some don't care. Half in the groove, half on the land did show longer resistance to port erosion. Interestingly enough, spec for an AK barrel is to always place the gas port first, in a groove, and index the rest of the operations from that datum point.

Barrels like Kreigers are sums of their parts - there is attention to all the details.

The raised burr is poor QC, but poor QC that's a magazine away from being solved.

[BoilerUp]

Alamo, when you say BA barrels are 10-15K round barrels, are you speaking of the SS or nitrided barrels?

Default, do you own any BA barrels? I don't think the OP in that other thread was bashing BA, but showing the extra benefits you get when you step up to a Krieger.

rxer311, I suspect you actually know what you really want. Is sub-MOA good enought? Both the Rainier and BA have MOA guarantees. Noveske is the most expensive but won't guarantee accuracy. Frankly, I don't blame them, but they're lower priced competition willing to put the guarantee in writing. The RA Select sounds like it already has you won over so I'm sure you wouldn't regret paying a few more $, but if money is tight, I say get the BA and be prepared to hold Clint to his guarantee. One of these days I'll pick up a Hanson profile barrel to check it out.

[Default.mp3]

Default, do you own any BA barrels? I don't think the OP in that other thread was bashing BA, but showing the extra benefits you get when you step up to a Krieger. I don't, but by that same token, nor was I bashing BA, but merely pointing out that they're not best in class, and comparing them to Noveske seems like a strange choice. Nothing wrong with a budget barrel, just stating its a case of getting what you pay for, and thus I would not consider a Ballistic Advantage barrel for something I'd call a "high quality build". Either way, no desired purpose was stated for the rifle, so that makes selecting a barrel quite difficult.

[Axlnut]

Rxer311

You know what we all forgot to ask?

What are your goals and expectations from the build (besides a badass finish :P)?

I'd be willing to bet that at the end of the day, answered honestly - BA is going to be the best choice for this build at this time.

That barrel life round count stuff.. that's total BS. Depends what you are shooting and how you are shooting it, along with what "lifespan" means to you.

[alamo5000]

Alamo, when you say BA barrels are 10-15K round barrels, are you speaking of the SS or nitrided barrels?

I emailed the guys from BA and told them which barrel I have and a bit about my shooting habits (I am not a super hardcore 1000 rounds a day shooter) and asked them point blank about it. "What kind of barrel life can I expect" and that was their response to me.

Basically for light to medium duty that is what I am expecting.

http://ballisticadvantage.com/10-5-inch-556-gov-carbine-cmv-modern-barrel.html

[Axlnut]

I emailed the guys from BA and told them which barrel I have and a bit about my shooting habits (I am not a super hardcore 1000 rounds a day shooter) and asked them point blank about it. "What kind of barrel life can I expect" and that was their response to me.

Basically for light to medium duty that is what I am expecting.

http://ballisticadvantage.com/10-5-inch-556-gov-carbine-cmv-modern-barrel.html

Now that makes way more sense :-)

[alamo5000]

Rxer311 Depends what you are shooting and how you are shooting it, along with what "lifespan" means to you.

Exactly. When I asked I was very pointed in my question. For me having a sub MOA barrel from a gun that will be shoulder fired with no rest (to speak of) with a red dot with the intention being a minute of man blaster...I see no point in trying to tune a load to utter perfection for that kind of thing.


... merely pointing out that they're not best in class... Nothing wrong with a budget barrel, just stating its a case of getting what you pay for, and thus I would not consider a Ballistic Advantage barrel for something I'd call a "high quality build". Either way, no desired purpose was stated for the rifle, so that makes selecting a barrel quite difficult.

Purpose matters. I have 100% top shelf stuff on my SBR with exception of the barrel but for the purpose and my civilian use of it, I can get two, almost 3 other barrels (and if you're talking Noveske I can maybe get 4 of them) for the same price.

For me as I stated above fawning all over 'accuracy' for a running around gun that won't ever touch a bipod or a sandbag is pretty much pointless. Basically a lot of effort for nothing. If there ever was an accuracy freak out there it's me. But getting it just 'within reason' is sufficient and my BA barrel has more than accomplished that goal easily.

For me I won't shoot more than 2-3 mags at a time for a number of reasons. Mainly because I am shooting suppressed almost 100% of the time and I don't want to mess up my can. The extreme heat build up for the can after that many rounds of rapid fire is a lot. Anything beyond that can damage the can.

It's unlikely that I will get into a firefight anytime soon so if I have to take a few minutes break so be it. All that stuff translates back to what you expect from the gun and the barrel. My shooting habits are mine only. I have the luxury of shooting in the backyard so if I go shoot a mag or two a couple of times a week and focus on skills and technique... then I can expect a better barrel life.

[UWone77]

I wouldn't worry about lifespan of the barrel too much. How many of us have shot out a barrel?

[Axlnut]

I wouldn't worry about lifespan of the barrel too much. How many of us have shot out a barrel?

Wise man say, "Those that can afford to, in less than decades, need not quibble over barrel cost."

[alamo5000]

I wouldn't worry about lifespan of the barrel too much. How many of us have shot out a barrel?

The only reason you haven't is because you have like 200 guns to shoot [:D]

I had this conversation with someone a while back. I forgot who... but I think barrel makers are taking into account their target audience. CHF Chrome lined barrels that can take sustained machine gun fire...on paper it sounds bad ass but considering that your average civilian doesn't shoot full auto and can't afford that much ammo....

So why not make a barrel (or series of barrels) that are more medium use oriented? They are easier to make and a lot cheaper while at the same time they meet the needs of 98% of AR owners?

Stainless is stainless. The barrels meant for true accuracy is one thing "Match Grade" or whatnot is one thing... but for general consumer barrels that aren't used in that manner why not make something that is A) easier to manufacture and B) has a pretty good life and C) has a really good price tag on it....

[alamo5000]

Wise man say, "Those that can afford to, in less than decades, need not quibble over barrel cost."

HAAA!!!! That's a classic line right there! You win the internet today.

[Joelski]

I see both sides of this debate. While my use mirrors Alamo's, a lot of us wouldn't sneeze at paying $500 for a receiver set that has no impact on accuracy, so why the heartburn about a $500 barrel that can?

Regards to shooting out a barrel; are ya planning on taking it with you? Can you really say you enjoyed it sitting in the safe? NO! Use it like ya stole it! You just might learn something from your gun (besides I REALLY need to start reloading my own!).

[UWone77]

The only reason you haven't is because you have like 200 guns to shoot [:D]



But lets be honest here. How many guys do you know that own 1 or 2 AR's and maybe shoot 500 rounds in an entire year out of it? Not saying this is everyone, but I know guys that haven't even broken a bolt or worn out their gas rings.

500 rounds x 20 years = 10k rounds and you're not even half way to wearing out a CHF barrel.

I'd just buy the barrel that fit your budget and likes, since it's obviously not the OP's first or last AR. All 3 are good choices.

[EO3]

You know.... I'm sure if you give SMOS a ring and ask for Eric, there's a good chance they'd give you a nice WEVO discount on one of their new stainless barrels. I cannot personally speak of their accuracy as I don't own one, though I can tell you that they won't disappoint. So... that's another option for you!

*queue the SMOS fanboy/shill jokes*[BD]

[Axlnut]

But lets be honest here. How many guys do you know that own 1 or 2 AR's and maybe shoot 500 rounds in an entire year out of it? Not saying this is everyone, but I know guys that haven't even broken a bolt or worn out their gas rings.

500 rounds x 20 years = 10k rounds and you're not even half way to wearing out a CHF barrel.

I'd just buy the barrel that fit your budget and likes, since it's obviously not the OP's first or last AR. All 3 are good choices.

That's where I'm at as well - it's not so much about poo-pooing an expensive barrel, they have obvious value, but like that $500 receiver set, it's a value proposition in regards to the whole. Usually if a buyer has decided they want a top of the line item, they wouldn't be considering a good, but lower cost option. They will shop at that tier.

If the question is "Noveske is good, RA in various trims is good, but will BA be 'good enough'?" The answer for most users is probably Yes.

[fledge]

After talking with Axlnut yesterday, I wonder how many of us know how to take advantage of a high end barrel. Do we know all the little details necessary in a build to make a precision barrel consistent? These are rhetorical questions that apply to me as well.

Conventional wisdom says that if you can afford to shoot out a barrel, then you can afford to replace it.

[rxer311]

And there in lies my problem. Do I need a "premium" barrel? No I don't. I have 2 rifles currently that I would describe as hard use rifles with Noveske chf barrels and another with a Large stainless barrel. My ability is not able to reach the potential of these premium barrels.

Admittedly, I like just building rifles as much as shooting them. Building is 3/4 of the fun for me. I do think the BA barrel will suit my needs just fine...but for some reason I just love the feel of a rifle built from top tier parts.

And barrel life means little to me as I have rifles barreled with barrels that will outlast me. It does, however, bring a value proposition compared to other barrels. I probably won't ever shoot it out anyway considering my other options in the safe.

I guess I just love the thought of the most badass rifle I can build. My practical side, though, says to rock a BA barrel and be happy with the cash in my pocket.

I guess I just want validation that a BA barrel is not junk.

[Joelski]

After talking with Axlnut yesterday, I wonder how many of us know how to take advantage of a high end barrel. Do we know all the little details necessary in a build to make a precision barrel consistent? These are rhetorical questions that apply to me as well.

Conventional wisdom says that if you can afford to shoot out a barrel, then you can afford to replace it.

You're kidding, right? Some people don't even use a torque wrench!?![wow] It's relative to how high your "Good enough" meter actually goes. I consider myself an overachiever simply because even though I did torque my barrel nut, the loud BANG! makes me extremely happy. I overshot my goal! I'm golden with my MOA. :o

[Joelski]

And there in lies my problem. Do I need a "premium" barrel? No I don't. I have 2 rifles currently that I would describe as hard use rifles with Noveske chf barrels and another with a Large stainless barrel. My ability is not able to reach the potential of these premium barrels.

Admittedly, I like just building rifles as much as shooting them. Building is 3/4 of the fun for me. I do think the BA barrel will suit my needs just fine...but for some reason I just love the feel of a rifle built from top tier parts.

And barrel life means little to me as I have rifles barreled with barrels that will outlast me. It does, however, bring a value proposition compared to other barrels. I probably won't ever shoot it out anyway considering my other options in the safe.

I guess I just love the thought of the most badass rifle I can build. My practical side, though, says to rock a BA barrel and be happy with the cash in my pocket.

I guess I just want validation that a BA barrel is not junk.

I'm in the same spot. When I looked at Barrels for my Recce project, I had that expensive receiver set, yet almost choked to death on prices for barrels! What I did was go to the (excessively obscure) spec, which according to my source was "Match grade, Stainless barrel" Heavy contour came later, doesn't say whose barrel, nuttin. So, after reading specs until my eyes glazed over, I settled on the RA MedCon Stainless barrel. Good enough? for me, absolutely. For a SEAL Sniper, maybe not, BUT! We're talking an effective kill range of 600 yards, not a mile and a quarter, so does the sniper need more barrel for that? Dunno. Does it meet the spec? Yep. So the boxes are ticked for the purpose of the rifle and my mind can relax and stop obssessing over the latest, greatest widget that Bob made this morning. Anyway, that's what worked for me; hope it makes sense! [:D]

PS: My "Recce" is obviously not a modified SPR rifle as per NSW Crane spec, but its close enough for me and the parts were vetted with a real life, honest to goodness Navy SEAL! so Nyah!, purists can KMA!! :)

[rxer311]

I'm in the same spot. When I looked at Barrels for my Recce project, I had that expensive receiver set, yet almost choked to death on prices for barrels! What I did was go to the (excessively obscure) spec, which according to my source was "Match grade, Stainless barrel" Heavy contour came later, doesn't say whose barrel, nuttin. So, after reading specs until my eyes glazed over, I settled on the RA MedCon Stainless barrel. Good enough? for me, absolutely. For a SEAL Sniper, maybe not, BUT! We're talking an effective kill range of 600 yards, not a mile and a quarter, so does the sniper need more barrel for that? Dunno. Does it meet the spec? Yep. So the boxes are ticked for the purpose of the rifle and my mind can relax and stop obssessing over the latest, greatest widget that Bob made this morning. Anyway, that's what worked for me; hope it makes sense! [:D]

PS: My "Recce" is obviously not a modified SPR rifle as per NSW Crane spec, but its close enough for me and the parts were vetted with a real life, honest to goodness Navy SEAL! so Nyah!, purists can KMA!! :)

You didn't help me decide [BD]

[Joelski]

You didn't help me decide [BD]

Some day I know sure as hell I will buy an Ultramatch barrel just because it will then be of the caliber of the rest of the parts on the gun. Until then, I don't feel a bit bad going with the Rainier MedCon for $200 less. Silver lining: Barrel for a new build!

Oh and there's those Fathom Arms Barrels we've been waiting on for a while.... Damn... 2 more rifles! [:D]

[rxer311]

Well Holy Crap! A whole bunch of things just went my way. I told my wife that the only thing I wanted for Christmas was an Apex club membership to Rainier Arms. She told me to go ahead and sign up. I then proceeded to place an order.

My barrel has been decided...
Rainier Arms 13.7" match (Rock Creek 5R barrel)
Fortis Stainless gas block (also added gass block pinning service)
BE Meyers Flash hider

Not only was it on sale...but I got the Apex discount on top of the sale prices.

I honestly can't believe that I got all of that for $360, shipped.

[UWone77]

Well Holy Crap! A whole bunch of things just went my way. I told my wife that the only thing I wanted for Christmas was an Apex club membership to Rainier Arms. She told me to go ahead and sign up. I then proceeded to place an order.

My barrel has been decided...
Rainier Arms 13.7" match (Rock Creek 5R barrel)
Fortis Stainless gas block (also added gass block pinning service)
BE Meyers Flash hider

Not only was it on sale...but I got the Apex discount on top of the sale prices.

I honestly can't believe that I got all of that for $360, shipped.

LOL... I called it, buy the barrel that fits your budget. You got all that for less than the price of just the Noveske Barrel.

Personally, out of the list you put out, I would have purchased the UltraMatch RA. Noveske is a close second, because their barrels come with gas tubes and pinned gas blocks, make it a slightly better deal when you add that up.

[Former11B]

I'm a fan of Rainier Barrels.

My next one will be an UltraMatch (either 16" or 18"). Currently running the Match versions in the same lengths and am very pleased. Only difference is 7oz in weight between the two!

[UWone77]

I'm a fan of Rainier Barrels.

My next one will be an UltraMatch (either 16" or 18"). Currently running the Match versions in the same lengths and am very pleased. Only difference is 7oz in weight between the two!

I think over time the Shilen blanks are more consistent. The Match line, the blanks have changed over the years. The Rock Creek have been good to me, and the best of the match line RA has put out IMHO. I believe they are going to be discontinued when their supply of blanks are exhausted though.

[rxer311]

Well, this is now not happening. Rainier Arms had their stock levels wrong and I am not getting my barrel. Back to square 1.