PDA

View Full Version : flash hiders - comparison



Policetacteam
19 March 2009, 08:04
I'm not sure if this is posted in the correct area. If not please feel free to move it to the appropriate category.

Has anyone had an opportunity to test or compare any of the newer aftermarket flash hiders / suppressors.

I have heard a lot of good things about the Smith Industries Vortex but I would like to hear from people who have tried it. How does it compare against some of the others such as the Vltor flash hider and the Surefire versions.

Venom
19 March 2009, 08:09
( and the blackout , if I may add)

Policetacteam
19 March 2009, 08:28
Venom,
This is the first I've heard of AAC's Blackout! That has some serious potential! I also like that it is slightly shorter than than the Vortex!

Army Chief
19 March 2009, 08:44
There are, of course, several different variations of the AAC Blackout, depending upon the model of suppressor that you're intending to use -- including none at all.

Stick's got an excellent flash suppressor guide (http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?t=524)posted here already, and has covered variations of the Blackout elsewhere on the site. These will surely be added to the aforementioned guide as time permits.

AC

Venom
19 March 2009, 08:59
Venom,
This is the first I've heard of AAC's Blackout!
that's what I'm here for.
I've got a M4 2000 on the way. will report once it's installed and t&f (tested&fired)

5pins
19 March 2009, 12:51
Here are some videos from Brownells comparing different flash hiders.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/GunTech/NewsletterArchive.aspx?x=v&p=0&t=1&i=1325

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/GunTech/NewsletterArchive.aspx?x=v&p=0&t=1&i=1328

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/GunTech/NewsletterArchive.aspx?x=v&p=0&t=1&i=1327

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/GunTech/NewsletterArchive.aspx?x=v&p=0&t=1&i=1329

Policetacteam
19 March 2009, 16:22
AC,

The guide was great pictorial but the Brownell's video's spoke volumes! I was amazed at how much the Vortex concealed the flash. On that same note I was not impressed at all with the Vltor VC-1 flash suppressor. I would love to see those same videos comparing AAC's Blackout to the Vortex.

Venom
19 March 2009, 16:55
http://www.defensereview.com/stories/acc/march2008flashm4smalltn8.jpg

Policetacteam
19 March 2009, 21:14
A picture speaks a thousand words!!! Impressive!

Army Chief
19 March 2009, 22:10
Very true. Video adds another dimension, of course, and there has been considerable discussion amongst the staff about adding video to our existing battery of reviews. These things take time, of course, but the intent is to keep reference-grade guides and reviews at the forefront of what we do here.

AC

Policetacteam
19 March 2009, 22:46
I think providing users with a video reference is a great idea! I know that by watching the Brownell videos I very quickly learned that the Vltor flash suppressor did very little in the suppression department. Videos add another element to aid or supplement photographs. This site provides users with a wide array of users from different backgrounds and professions! Having everyone together in one large think tank becomes very useful.

Policetacteam
22 March 2009, 02:08
Hey Stick,

I saw a pic you posted on M4carbine.net with a picture of the AAC non-silencer Blackout flash hider on your rifle. How do you like it? Is it worth purchasing?

Stickman
22 March 2009, 10:43
Hey Stick,

I saw a pic you posted on M4carbine.net with a picture of the AAC non-silencer Blackout flash hider on your rifle. How do you like it? Is it worth purchasing?




I don't think there is a better FS on the market.

Ryo
22 March 2009, 16:54
I have both the Vortex and the Blackout.. and I decided the looks alone, the Blackout wins. If no one told you, the Vortex and the Blackout both have a "ring" like a tuning fork. I plan to sell my Vortex's (I have 2) when I get my replacement KX3 and Blackout flash hiders.

Policetacteam
22 March 2009, 18:15
The "ring" is an interesting observation. I have a few guys on my team using the Vortex but I guess I have not noticed it. Is the ringing sound some how related to how the gas escapes the flash hider?

Ryo
22 March 2009, 22:55
No.. the ring is due to the structure. It's kind of shaped like a tuning fork. Just take a rifle and charge it. When it slams close, you'll hear the Vortex and Blackout ring like a tuning fork. Sometimes it annoys me, other times I don't notice it. Typically I don't notice it when shooting.

I prefer it not to ring, but since my Blackout is looks good, can install a AAC M4-2000 can on it.. and pinned on, I think I'll keep it. ;)

Oh and if you have the Magpul DVD, you can hear the ring of a Vortex or Blackout on one of the segments.

Army Chief
22 March 2009, 23:12
I can't speak with authority on this one, but I doubt that the ring is a function of anything more than the physical design of the tines responding to the recoil pulse. As Ryo has indicated, it responds in much the same way that a tuning fork "rings" when it is struck; as such, I see this as more of a harmonics issue than anything related to gas venting.

AC

Policetacteam
23 March 2009, 02:01
I plan on ordering the non-silencer Blackout in the morning. Once I have it installed I will let you guys know what I think of it. I'm curious how noticeable the ringing will be. I'll be honest..if the ringing is the only negative to an incredibly effective flash hider I think I can probably live with that!

Venom
23 March 2009, 02:55
prepare to wait a bit; they're backordered atm.

Army Chief
23 March 2009, 03:00
Without going down the slippery path of making automobile comparisons, this reminds me of a long-standing debate in the BMW M3 world over the "exhaust rasp" of the E46 M3. Some spend vast amounts of money on crosspipes and such to get rid of it, while others embrace it as one of the identifying characteristics of the car.

Similarly, while I'm not sure that the "Blackout's "ring" is really that pronounced, I certainly wouldn't let this bother me. If anything, I would think it was just an interesting little idiocyncracy of a very well-designed flash suppressor. Then again, one of my favorite things about shooting the M1 Garand is the "ping" that the en bloc clip makes as it clears the chamber, so perhaps I've just got a different tolerance/appreciation level than the norm. :)

AC

Venom
23 March 2009, 04:43
once I get mine and notice such a ring, I think I'll find it a cool thing, not an annoyance.

Policetacteam
23 March 2009, 17:28
Spoke with AAC this afternoon during training. They advised that the AAC non-silencer Blackout was in stock and ready to ship! He also stated that the web site should be fully operational by this evening or possibly tomorrow. So we will wait and see!! [pop]

Policetacteam
23 March 2009, 17:31
AAC's webpage is still down as of 19:32 hrs. Big shock! Will it ever end!?!

Army Chief
23 March 2009, 23:02
Watch the blog ... yesterday's schwag teaser (http://www.aacblog.com/?p=1918) would seem to suggest that we're very close.

AC

Venom
24 March 2009, 02:18
mers told me he was backordered on blackouts on monday; and he told me last week wednesday that the site should be up last friday...

I guess it's just wait and see

TehLlama
25 March 2009, 19:32
Is there any word yet on the '09 Gemtech HALO cans that are supposed to work with the longer Vortex hiders?

Ryo
3 April 2009, 17:38
Can't wait until they get the 51 tooth blackout. I need to order a couple. They look pretty awesome. Have one that came with my Noveske (still grateful to Stickman for the heads up on those a while back).

OUTLAW-ONE
5 April 2009, 17:46
anyone know where I can get the 3 prong AAC Blackout flash hider? Rainier is out of them & I can never get thru to AAC.

Army Chief
6 April 2009, 00:33
Sounds like a wait list situation to me, quite honestly.

AC

Policetacteam
6 April 2009, 04:00
I have called AAC several times and have been told that they can't do the order over the phone because the part numbers have changed. I have been continously told to check online. Every time I check online the website says "Under construction". So I'm not sure what is going on. I just know that I want the Blackout non-silencer flash hider and I'm not able to find one. Any suggestions.

TehLlama
8 April 2009, 10:07
My preference is still towards the SEI for many applications: less barrel torquing, availability, and price, but this is also because of their optional compatibility with the OPS 12th family of cans.

Venom
8 April 2009, 12:21
try politesociety for aac stuff

Policetacteam
14 April 2009, 06:02
I completely gave up any hope of ordering anything through AAC online or over the phone. Both of which proved to be a huge waste of time. Apparently suppressor sales must be huge if they can repeatedly blow off customer demands via phone, online, and by e-mail! I ordered the non-silencer Blackout through Brownells and had it 4 days later! Much easier!

Ryo
14 April 2009, 09:37
AAC makes great suppressors, but they get shunned due to their attitude at least from what I've heard. Never dealt with them so I don't know for sure. I do like their product though...

LIL-COMMANDO
23 April 2009, 20:44
As for the tuning fork ringing as described in a post, yes the first generation of the Vortex did have this problem. If I remember it had to do with the metal but in the second version it is no longer an issue.

Stickman
23 April 2009, 21:15
I completely gave up any hope of ordering anything through AAC online or over the phone. Both of which proved to be a huge waste of time.



If you need to call them again, talk to Mike Mers, he has always been helpful to me in the past 770-925-9988 (x 101).

1_ar_newbie
23 April 2009, 22:22
If you need to call them again, talk to Mike Mers, he has always been helpful to me in the past 770-925-9988 (x 101).

Guys,

I am Mike Mers from AAC.

First off, I need to say sorry to a few of you. Things at AAC are busy... make that really busy! I receive 100-200 emails a day and over 100 voice mails. I want to help all of you so here goes.

Blackout non-silencer mounts are in stock and for sale. I would love to help anyone that needs one.

M4-2000 mounts will be in stock late next week... call me to order (or email me to call you if you can't get me on the phone) If you call to order and I tell you "call back" tell me your from this board and I will make it happen for you. [:D]

M4-2000 muzzle brake will be in stock again in about 3-4 weeks... call me to back order them.

Guys, I want to help EVERYone... however, that has proven to be hard to do. Drop Stickman's name if I give you the run around and I will do all I can do for you guys.


Mike Mers
Advanced Armament Corp.
LE Sales
Mers@advanced-armament.com
770-925-9988 ext 101

Stickman
23 April 2009, 22:27
Standard practice, anyone who drops my name owes beer.... I'll do the same for dropping someone elses name. [:D]

Venom
23 April 2009, 23:11
hehe good one!
and I have to second what stick said, Mike always tries to help and make things happen.

Ryo
25 April 2009, 01:57
That's really cool for the update Mike. My dealer has a couple of AAC M4-2000 blackout on order for me.. hope they get to him soon.

airborneski
25 April 2009, 10:41
Which flash hiders can be used w/ bayonettes?

Stickman
28 April 2009, 21:21
A1, A2, Phantom, Vortex, and I'm pretty sure the non-QD AAC FS. There are others as well, but thats all I can think of off the top of my head.


ETA- The Saylors should work as well.

Venom
9 May 2009, 16:13
as for the ring AAC blackouts are supposed to have...its very faint.
I've uploaded a short vid, and you might notice the ring/tuningfork sound right after the shot. but, unless you stand next to it, or have electronic hearingprotection you wont notice it. and even with e-hearingprotection, you wont notice it after the first few rangeattendances, as you should really concentrate on other stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHpbJD2ies8&feature=channel_page

juan
11 July 2009, 10:21
hi guys, my first post in wevo. i just got my blackout and went to the range earlier to test it on my AR, i did notice the tuning fork sound. it was quite clear shot after shot. sir venom, you are saying that this will just go away or il just get used to it and wont be bothered by it anymore? thanks

Ryo
11 July 2009, 15:04
You'll more likely get use to it. At first I noticed it.. but after a while I just don't really pay attention to it.

juan
11 July 2009, 20:06
thanks sir ryo. il fire it again today....

cebuboy
11 July 2009, 22:36
The newer Blackouts seems to have a redesigned flutes on the tines, to lessen the ping perhaps?

Venom
12 July 2009, 01:29
Yes, the sound is still there, but I am used to it, and wasn't irritated by it in the first place.
Wasnt bothered and still am not bothered by it ;)

juan
12 July 2009, 08:29
thanks v, il just have to get used to it then.....

Boris
20 July 2009, 18:33
Do the AAC Blackout flash hiders have any brake/comp attributes, or are they simply great FHs?

Army Chief
20 July 2009, 22:16
I'd have to say the latter, but the new Rainier Arms XTC would seem to deliver the best of both worlds.

http://www.rainierarms.com/img/shop/product/29960c78848063603f74d3aa6f76a3e7.jpg

Haven't yet had an opportunity to really put mine through its paces while I'm still overseas, but the design and fabrication attributes are both top notch.

AC

juan
23 July 2009, 07:19
sir AC, please do share when you have gone thru it... im excited as well on how this one works....