New and in the research stage

[HD-48]

Very new to the AR world and all the possibilities. I came to the conclusion that the S&W M&P sport 2 is the best bang for the buck in the mid tier range. Asking around and such I found a guy selling a cmmg mod4sa. Rather a hard gun to do research on. First off, what would you say the reasonable price range is for it? Then second, it currently has what I'd guess a 9in 4 rail hand guard. I'm more interested in a longer free floating railing. Is this possible with the hard mount site and such or would a whole new upper be needed? Thank you for any input

[alamo5000]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy5iIrQLbiE

Welcome to the forum.

According to that guy he paid I think $575 for his used.

[alamo5000]

I am no where near the level of expert that other people here are in regards to AR's. That said I would define what you want to do with the rifle before you start goose chasing. Believe me I've been there and done that.

What's your purpose in wanting a longer free float rail?

Just to kind of steer the discussion a bit more tell us where, what, how, and how much you shoot.

If you want a gun with a free float handguard there are a ton of factory options out there for that. Do you just like the way it looks better or what?

FYI: You technically 'could' put a free float rail on there but it would require surgery and I have no idea your level of gunsmithing. It's not something you would normally or randomly do. Before I tried to convert one over I think it would be easier and probably cheaper to just buy another upper.

I have one AR with magnified optics and another with a good red dot on it. At some point I would actually WANT to have a good old iron sights gun to add to the mix. Everything has it's place and purpose.

[HD-48]

Yeah it's the look of the longer rail, which that gas block looks to be a problem. Home protection and just general fun target shooting is the purpose. Like the look of the flat top all the way down the barrel with flip up sights rather than barrel grip and hard mount front sight that's also the gas block. Is that something in the difference in piston and direct impingement?

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[Jerry R]

Welcome to the forum.

Some manufacturers offer a rail that will extend past an A2 fixed front sight. I have used Midwest Industries, and I like their products. It requires removing the Delta Ring and springs, and is a "free float" quad rail. Sorry the pictures below are a little cluttered with "stuff" mounted on or around the A2 sight; but I think they show what you seem to be after.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i106/pdogkilr/Firearms/AR-15/IMG_1032EOTechLeftClose300ppi.jpg~original

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i106/pdogkilr/Firearms/AR-15/IMG_1201300DPICarbineLight.jpg~original

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i106/pdogkilr/Firearms/AR-15/IMG_1194300DPICarbineRightSide.jpg~original

[Jerry R]

LOL - you guys can type faster than I can find pictures.

If you want to do away with the A2 front sight and install a gas block that will fit under a free float rail, it is surgery. Not all that difficult, but a little beyond something you might want to undertake if a little unfamiliar with the platform. Buy a factory firearm in the configuration you want, shoot the pee-willy out of it, learn the platform, then look into mods. When learning a new platform, look at offered options, pick one you like and get very familiar with it. It will teach you what you like and don't like. When comfortable, then make subtle changes, one at a time.

[HD-48]

Yes Jerry, that helps a lot. A very good point in the right direction

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[Uffdaphil]

Welcome aboard Hd-48. A few suggestions:

-Learn correct names for parts so you don't get bad advice through misunderstanding -i.e. barrel grip is hanguard, hard mount front sight is FSB.

-When you add home protection to use, budget becomes secondary to proven reliability. I would be fine with the S&W for a fun gun, but never would I bet my loved ones lives to save the ~$2-300 cost for a better one.

- If money is tight I would rather have a used quality AR than a mid-tier new one for your stated uses.

-Any part on an AR can be upgraded, but getting one already set up close to what you want means not paying for stock, grips, handguards, sights, trigger guards etc. that end up in a pile. Most of these parts have no resale value. Which is why the Colt OEM stripped carbines are a good idea for someone who is not ready to build their own. The grip and possibly the barrel nut if rail requires it, are the only parts you would likely replace. Any competent gun shop can install your choice of parts to complete in half an hour and the base carbine is as dependable as any multi-thousand dollar boutique gun. Just one option, but a good one.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LE6920-OEM2

[alamo5000]

A bit more to think about. Imagine if someone came to you and said "screwdrivers are on sale at Wal mart..is this a good one?"

Well, honestly it depends. Is it the right size? Is it the right head? Are you going to be working on pocket watches or a tractor or a Japanese sports car?

After going through a list most people would get a headache and wonder why screwdrivers are so complicated.

Same thing happens with ARs all the time. People get caught up in the gear vs it's purpose.

Are you going to use a scope? Are you going to shoot from a bipod? Are you shooting at short range or long?

Do you want to shoot cans off the fence or are you going to be in the brush?

Figure out what is going to be the overall most enjoyable experience for you and then get input on options. It might lead you in a totally new direction when you let purpose dictate design instead of just going by what looks cool.

With most of them when you pull the trigger they go bang but if you put thought into what will be the most fun or best fit for your needs you will be more happy in the end.

[fledge]

I second Uffdaphil.

His link above is a perfect start to what you are looking for. And this is mid-tier. What you posted above is "budget tier." Grant (who owns the shop in the link) can set it up with the handguard, stock, grip you want and send it to you complete. He can also answer your questions competently. After you have that AR, then research your heart out to build your next one. That way you always have one that works as it should.

[GOST]

I would recommend an Aero Precision rifle, they make a high quality product at a very reasonable price. This rifle fits most of your wants.
2356
http://www.primaryarms.com/aero-precision-ar15-m4e1-complete-rifle-16-5-56-15-m-lok-anodized-black-apcr600306

Or if you would like customize it yourself here is their OEM on-sale at Brownells for $529.99.
2357
http://www.brownells.com/firearms/rifles/semi-auto/oem-mid-length-16-rifle-prod81838.aspx

[BoilerUp]

From the title, I was really expecting this to be an Alamo5000 thread...

HD-48, welcome to the fray. Lots of opinions on the matter floating around the interwebs. Not all opinions are created equal and it can be hard to separate the wheat from the chaff on an internet forum, but WEVO has much higher weat:chaff ratio than about any other gun forum I've found.

As a few others have implied, given the current state of the AR market I wouldn't buy an AR that wasn't EXACTLY how I wanted it. The S&W Sports are a good value, I hear, but I wouldn't call them "mid-tier". Aero Precision, Palmetto State Armory, and Spikes are probably better fits into that category.

I don't own any ARs without free-float handguards. I do have one carbine with a Front Sight Post which happens to be my only factory-built AR. It's an LMT (Lewis Machine & Tool) and is SHTF-worthy. The only real downside to FSP is aesthetic. Like Jerry, I mounted a quad rail that extends around the FSP.

That said, I doubt I'll ever buy another quad rail again. The weight savings and comfort of KeyMod or M-LOK handguards is hard to beat for most uses. If you really have to hang a bunch of crap off your rifle, then picatinny rails are hard to beat, but most of us don't.

A few things to keep in mind: the heart of the rifle is the barrel; the most important human interface with the weapon is the trigger; the part that is exposed to the most force and motion is the Bolt Carrier Group; pretty much all the other parts are there to hold the barrel, trigger, and BCG together.

[HD-48]

Thanks everybody. That is one sweet looking gun there ghost. Not that I want a Swiss army knife of a gun but neither do I want a Vietnam style one either and I figured surely there's someone else who could relate. Thank you

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[MoxyDave]

Pick up a basic M4-style carbine from Aero Precision, a couple thousand rounds of Wolf Gold or Federal XM193 and go shooting. Shoot close. Shoot far. Shoot in-between. Learn to zero your sights. Learn to change mags. Learn to shoot while moving. Learn to shoot from cover. Learn to shoot with a friend.

I wish I had made those simple first steps many years ago when I first became interested in AR-15 style rifles.

If you want to sit around and armchair all the junk you can put on your lego-gun, by all means go ahead. But in the meantime, get the basics covered and you will learn far more from that experience than from thousands of hours on the internet.

A few hundred dollars isn't going to make a big difference in your life in the long run. So get something quality up front so you can shoot instead of troubleshoot.

Well there you go, my $.02 for what it's worth.

[Stone]

Real good points so far. I would also recommend going down to a few local gun stores and physically handling as many AR's as they have in stock to get a feel for the different hand guards and how the rifles balance in your hands. Narrow down your search to a handful of rifle makers and make of list of quality's that you prefer. Full quad rails are becoming extinct since most attachments are put towards the muzzle end and all that extra picatinny rail does is just dig into your hand when shooting. Also finding a base rifle that has what you want saves a lot of money in the long run. Doing some research on your local, state, NFA firearm laws will also help out in the long run. As far as attachment points go, there are for the most part 3 types.

Picatinny rail: AKA, quad rail, cheese grater. It is a standard on all upper receivers and an option on handgaurds.

M-LOK, designed by Magpul.

Keymod

[Uffdaphil]

Repeating myself, home defense negates a lot of budget options. A quality barrel, upper with proper feed ramps and a proven bolt carrier group are the most essential parts. You could assemble a trustworthy gun with cheaper handguard, sights, lower reciever etc. and defend your loved ones lives with it. IF, IF, IF assembled properly. You have no way of knowing if Joe armorer at the local gunshop would do it right.

The major brands that don't cost beaucoup bucks and are overwhelmingly approved of via countless hours of use by the military or top civilian SMEs are Colt, LMT, and BCM. Colt is mid-tier only in extra features. The base 6920 is mil-spec and has every single part inspected. I have other factory uppers just as dependable, Noveske, Centurion, But they cost more. Sionics is a new company that I trust only because I know the guy behind it is one of the most knowledgable in the business.

I can't think of another factory built (affordable) besides these I would have as a primary defense gun.

[Thompson]

I second GOST's options. Particularly if you compare the price between the Aero OEM vs Colt OEM. You could almost finish the Aero OEM build for the price of the Colt OEM.

If you're looking for some free float rails, ALG (http://www.algdefense.com) makes some at a decent price.

And as an extension to what Stone said, if the gun shop has a range (or your range has rentals) see if you can throw some rounds down range with one or two so you can get a general feel for things you want/don't want in your rifle.

At the end of the day, whatever you decide, make sure you put in all the research beforehand for what you want. Last thing you want to do is end up buying something and having buyers remorse.

[Stone]

FNH has a decent lineup of entry level rifles. Looks like they are using Mega's rail now.
http://www.fnamerica.com/products/carbines/fn-15-series/fn15-tactical-ii/