Just tried M-Lok

[rxer311]

I have been a fan of Keymod since it was released and have 2 rifles set up with the keymod rails. For some time I have heard people raving about how awesome the M-Lok system is compared to Keymod. So, I finally got myself an M-lok rail in the form of an SMOS. Tonight, all of my M-Lok attachments arrived. For comparison I have the identical Noveske Keymod rail in the same length.

After installing the parts I have come to the conclusion that I still like Keymod much better than M-Lok. My first gripe is that I can't install any accessories around the area of my gas block. With the super slim rail and the M-Lock nuts, there is absolutely no way to mount anything in the slot over the gas block. Even if I shaved the screws. This probably isn't a problem with larger diameter rails. The second part that I found frustrating was the actual mounting of the parts. I seriously had to dick with my Magpul AFG M-Lok and QD mount for a while to get them mounted. I basically had to install the screws through the accessory to the nut, put the nuts through, pull back the accessory from the rail and screw a the same time (each nut just a little bit at a time) to get everything locked down tightly. Keymod...I just put my stuff on, tighten it down, and I am good to go. And, I can mount my accessories anywhere.

I might be missing something, but right now, I just don't get it. Does M-Lok do a better job with a more solid lock up? Are there other advantages to M-Lok that I have yet to notice? Do people just hate how Keymod looks like a bag of dicks?

I am not going to get rid of this M-lok rail as I have all my accessories locked down tight where I want them and I have already invested in those accessories. I just don't see myself continuing down the M-lok path in the future.

I know this is just another Keymod vs M-Lok thread...but just wanted to share my personal experiences now that I have had the chance to work with both systems.

[SINNER]

I agree 100% with what you said. I don't like M-lok. PITA rocking parts to keep the nuts from spinning. Ones with pre applied lock tite are a nightmare. Nuts damage the internal surfaces of the rails every time they are backed off also. Had an issue with Magpul nuts bottoming out before the Pic adapter tightened fully on a new Aero fore end.


FWIW the Arisaka mounts are the best I've used by far.

[BoilerUp]

That was pretty much my learning path, too. I've had two M-LOK handguards and am down to one that's waiting to get replaced with a KMR. I'll only buy KeyMod from now on. I have had M-LOK accessories pop off at the range because they weren't properly secured. While you can blame that on the operator, M-LOK is just a lot more fidgety to get installed correctly and all but requires visual inspection to confirm the lugs are properly oriented, which is pretty difficult to do on many setups. Since I frequently tinker with my weapons, KeyMod is the better solution for me personally. And the awesome BCM KeyMod panels cover up the only real negative KeyMod has going for it, which is aesthetics, and I never really minded the look of KeyMod anyway.

I do wish there were some more options for KeyMod Harris bipod mounts on the market, though. I have a DD and will pick up a PWS next to try out.

[alamo5000]

M-lok definitely has the problem of interference with the gas block, this is assuming which block you use. I have never used keymod, but that said many manufacturers are now making gas blocks that don't have the interference problems.

[Joelski]

There's a learning curve, and some tricks that help. In the end, it comes down to patience, and a desire to use M-Lok over KeyMod or quad rail.

And luck, perhaps.
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af93/Joelski144/ARs%20and%20Pistols/MK%2018/20161231_180658_zpsxqejmhdd.jpg (http://s997.photobucket.com/user/Joelski144/media/ARs%20and%20Pistols/MK%2018/20161231_180658_zpsxqejmhdd.jpg.html)

Go here:
http://soldiersystems.net/2014/06/19/magpul-m-lok-tips/

[tact]

I prefer mlok personally and feel it's a better mounting platform, and have since sold all of my keymod crap. I've just seen more than a couple of accessories or attachments ripped out or partially ripped out of keymod rails under hard use.

[GOST]

To me both systems have their pros and cons. Keymod is a little easier to mount, but M-LOK is more solid. M-LOK takes less time to machine and looks a little better, but picatinny looks better than both. It's like whether you prefer Kelly Hu or Christina Hendricks, Asian or Ginger fettish.

[BoilerUp]

There's a learning curve, and some tricks that help.

Yeah, that's the point. Of course, while I think mounting KeyMod is much more foolproof, you can still mess it up primarily because most KeyMod accessories are unidirectional. And mistakes mounting KeyMod can be much more subtle and lead to rail damage by the time you realize something is wrong.

Since most people mount very few items to their handguard and leave their accessories on for a long time, either system works well. IMO, if you think you might be swapping accessories frequently or in the field, you're probably going to be happier with KeyMod in the long run. But maybe I'll change my mind if I ever have a KeyMod accessory "ripped out under hard use".

I find it interesting that there are some very well respected manufacturers on either side of the issue (besides Magpul and BCM). Geissle has only M-LOK handguards now, while DD, Sig, and Barrett only have KeyMod offerings. KAC was a little slow to get M-LOK to the market, but now offers both, as does SLR, Centurion, MI and I'm sure many others. So, while I have a preference for KeyMod, I don't think one can really go wrong with either.

[Default.mp3]

Geissle has only M-LOK handguards now, while DD, Sig, and Barrett only have KeyMod offerings.https://danieldefense.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/0dc2d03fe217f8c83829496872af24a0/v/7/v7_l_02-128-02081-047.jpg

M-LOK is stronger, KeyMod is more convenient.


The decision to select M-Lok over its chief competitor, Keymod, was credited largely to M-Lok’s preference among Colt Canada’s LEO and military customers. However, additional performance metrics such as tear-off strength and ease of manufacture were also taken into account. We will be following up with Colt Canada in the coming days to get more information on their selection of M-Lok over Keymod so check back over the next couple days for more on this story.Source: http://calibremag.ca/colt-canada-mrr-the-modular-railed-rifle/


Keymod
Pros:
Open source, not restrained by a TDP, which allows a manufacturer to improve upon the mounting method.
Shows better alignment of mounted items, as the attachment nut is conical and tightens into a beveled recess.

Cons:
Open source, not restrained by a TDP, which allows a manufacturer to screw-up the mounting method.
Requires higher than usual toque for a small screw to avoid loosening, but must remain low enough to prevent damage to the nut or handguard.
The attachment nut and mounting slot must be able to withstand significant torque without deforming, which makes both highly sensitive to material and hardening processes.
To reverse an item, the nut recess must first allow it, and the user must loosen and flip the nut.

M-Lok
Pros:
Patented and controlled by Magpul, which ensures that everyone that is making an M-lok accessory that bears the M-Lok logo has to have been approved by them, which keeps everyone at the standard that they want.
Attachment method can bear very high torque, ensuring that accessories won't loosen if mounted correctly.
Attachment hardware can withstand high pull force.
Items are immediately able to be reversed when mounting.

Cons:
Patented and controlled by Magpul, which prevents outside manufacturers from changing the attachment method for a specific purpose.
Attachment hardware can be shifted (without loosening) with lateral leverage.Source: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?14049-KeyMod-vs-M-LOK&p=334953&viewfull=1#post334953

[BoilerUp]

I stand corrected. I hadn't seen the DD M-LOK option. It doesn't look like they are selling the handguards separately yet.

[Slippers]

M-Lok is much easier to use if you put some vibra-tite vc3 on the screws and allow it to dry. Then, when you thread the m-lok nuts on, the vc3 helps cam the nut into the proper position when both tightening and loosening. I always take a flashlight and shine it through the handguard to get a view of the nuts to make sure they are seated correctly.

The BCM reverse threaded keymod screws (which combine the nut and screw), alleviate the directional mounting issues. They're pretty much foolproof and let us make mounts much thinner and easier. I really like them, and am gradually transitioning all of our keymod accessories over.

People like to say that keymod takes more machine time because of the chamfer around the inside of each slot on the interior of the handguard. However, almost all of the good manufacturers do a flat cut around the inside of each m-lok slot. Geissele is a perfect example. There's really not a significant machine time difference, unless the extrusion is designed so no additional machining time is required on the inside (for m-lok).

I will say that m-lok products cost us significantly more to manufacture because the nuts/screws are more than twice as expensive as the BCM reverse threaded keymod screws.

[Uffdaphil]

My M-Lok numbskull moment: When I figured out that I need not tape the nut separately to a screwdriver blade to hold under the rail.

[fledge]

I only use m-lok. And can switch them out quickly now. But it's not like installing a handstop is a race against time.

I use few accessories though, and when I do, I usually keep them in place. Then it's a matter of a smooth rail and aesthetics.

I've read in various places that mlok outsells keymod 3:1.

[Joelski]

The one thing I find myself changing with any frequency is from an M-Lok AFG to a 5 slot pic rail so I can use my QD tango down vertical grip. I guess it sounds like I need to build another upper/rifle! [:)]

[Slippers]

I've read in various places that mlok outsells keymod 3:1.

That was based on an informal poll of a few accessory manufacturers, but didn't include the biggest proponents of either interface (BCM and Magpul).

It's about 1:1 for us. And I get about an equal amount of tech support emails from people that have difficulty installing, but most of the time it's stripped or lost screws.

Have also had an equal number of people with accessories that don't stay tight, always caused by lack of thread locker and/or incorrect torque.

[fledge]

Very good to know. I was curious.

[FortTom]

I have 3 with K-Mod, and I will probably stick with that on a build I'm thinking about, if only to be able to quickly switch accessories back and forth with minimal trouble. When I bought my first K-Mod, I was told how bad I had "F'd" up, because when the "New" (then) M-Lok hit the streets, all of my K-mod accessories would then turn to flaming rust and fall completely off of my "junk" K-mod handguards. Also heard that when the M-Lok hit the streets, that we'd never see anything K-mod again due to being obsolete. Update: Satan did not visit and cause those K-mod handguards and accessories to burst into flames while M-Lok stuff got raptured up into Heaven. I also didn't witness other folks K-mod rails burst into bits either. Haven't ripped any accessories off of anything, either.

On another note, I haven't seen anyone's M-Lok stuff just hanging by a thread either. Only complaints I've heard from friends and acquaintances, as mentioned above, is that M-Lok are a bit more of a PITA to get mounted, but not enough so to sour anyone on them.

My advice, buy either, they both work very well.

FT[:D]

[rxer311]

After sitting on it a few days I think I may have been a bit harsh in my assessment of the M-Lok, however, I do think that not being able to mount accessories near the gas block is a design flaw that needs to be addressed.

The mounting of accessories being a pain in the ass, is just that...a pain in the ass. Once they are mounted, it is solid.

Its just a game of knowing the limitations of each platform and choosing what works best for you.

[Slippers]

After sitting on it a few days I think I may have been a bit harsh in my assessment of the M-Lok, however, I do think that not being able to mount accessories near the gas block is a design flaw that needs to be addressed.

Magpul provides the TDP, so the spacing and size of the m-lok nuts are known ahead of time. It's up to the manufacturer of the handguard system to leave enough space for the nuts and screws.

[Axlnut]

Magpul provides the TDP, so the spacing and size of the m-lok nuts are known ahead of time. It's up to the manufacturer of the handguard system to leave enough space for the nuts and screws.

And it's entirely possible - I know when working on forends I model an assembly and have multiple barrel profiles / gas block size and locations that I can quickly turn on and off. Helps to see any potential issues, some of which can be solved by simply shifting the row of slots or whatever fore/aft a tiny bit, or altering the extrusion shape just a touch.

[Joelski]

To me both systems have their pros and cons. Keymod is a little easier to mount, but M-LOK is more solid. M-LOK takes less time to machine and looks a little better, but picatinny looks better than both. It's like whether you prefer Kelly Hu or Christina Hendricks, Asian or Ginger fettish.

You had it wrapped tight til you missed Maggie Q.

[Default.mp3]

Looks like M-LOK wins an important battle: http://soldiersystems.net/2017/03/31/ussocom-selects-m-lok-for-weapon-programs/

Some interesting data comparing M-LOK to 1913:
Failure load testing demonstrated that M-LOKTM systems support the highest load of all modular rail systems tested. In fact, the test equipment used to interface with 1913 accessory rails secured with the respective modular rail system across testing repeatedly failed prior to failure of the M-LOKTM attachment system. Even so, testing of the M-LOKTM systems failed at loads as high as over three times the maximum failure load of some other modular rail systems.