Forward Controls 6315

[Duffy]

We're showing the 6315 to the public for the first time, and we're doing it on WEVO, future new products will be announced and unveiled here first as well.

A little background on this project. I have a collection of expensive flash suppressors, comps and brakes I have bought and used over the years. All of them have been replaced by the A2s that were originally on the rifles. The venerable A2 works well and is inexpensive, maybe it can be made better [:D]

As early as 2002, way before Battle Arms and Forward Controls, I had wished someone would make what we're calling 6315. It has A2 TDP dimensions (save for length, more on that later) so it's compatible with A2 mounted sound suppressors and BFA, think of it as how Forward Controls would do an A2.

The 63 in its namesake pays homage to the Stoner 63. The slots are based on the Stoner 63 flash suppressor. 15 simply means AR15. 6315's slots are oval and tapered, like the Stoner 63, the shape can also be found on HK, SIG and a few European designs.

We made the inside cone shaped opening slightly larger by reducing the wall thickness. the 10:30, 12, and 1:30 o'clock slots are longer than the 3 and 9 o'clock. We incorporated a wire cutting feature to the 6315. It may be of limited usefulness for many of us, but why not have it if it adds no cost to the unit? The overall length is slightly increased to leave sufficient material between the notches and 3 and 9 o'clock slots. It will NOT be long enough to make a 14.5" barrel 16", the increase is 0.04".

There are couple of hidden features from the asymmetrical slots arrangement that we still have to test, so I don't want to talk about them yet.

I can already hear "a solution in search of a problem" about the wire cutter feature. It's there, it doesn't cost anything to add, you don't have to use it [:D]

It isn't drastically different from an A2, it's how we would design a no-nonsense, un-flashy (no pun intended) all around useful flash suppressor/comp that doesn't break the bank.

Now that I've made you read all that, here's the pic :P
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/6315_zpsxaep0a0a.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/6315_zpsxaep0a0a.jpg.html)

[Tyrannosaur]

That looks pretty sharp I must say. Do I detect a notch with a sharpened front end? A "cookie cutter" front end would be nice looking with a QPQ finish. That being said looks cool so far

[Aragorn]

Very attractive. Too early I'm sure, but here's hoping for a .300BLK/.308 version.

[Stone]

Appreciate the early releases, its nice to see items going through the final processing. Sometimes subtle changes to existing products make them all the more user friendly.

[Duffy]

The production version will be black nitrided. The notches weren't meant to be used as a striking tool, but they can be pressed into that role, I just heard similar thoughts from a friend about the notches potential, albeit unintended uses lol [BD]

308 version isn't far behind, I'd like to keep most dimension the same, save for the hole's diameter and thread pitch. 308 flash suppressors all seem to be longer, I'm not convinced they need to be.

[UWone77]

What the price point looking like?

[Duffy]

MSRP isn't finalized yet, it will be below many, if not most of the third party flash suppressors in the market.

[Slippers]

These seem like a nice match with a b&t rotex suppressor. :)

[SINNER]

A2 is still one of the most efffective flash hiders I've used.

These look very interesting.

[Axlnut]

I'm down for one on my A4/A5. Great job!

[Deadwing]

Very nicely done, Roger! I would expect nothing less from you! I've got A2 flash hiders on a lot of uppers, so i'm definitely excited to give one of your 6315s a spin.

[Duffy]

I don't think the 1.8" length (0.04" longer than the A2) is going to be an issue, it wouldn't make sense to put the first baffle in front of the A2 to the point of touching it, it should have more than 0.04" clearance [:)]

The 6315 will be slightly lighter than the A2 due to its thinner wall and larger slots, though light weight wasn't an objective, just a result. I'm dying to test it to ascertain the three improvements we think the design will bring, good looks is decidedly not one of them, though I think we got that one dialed in.

[Aragorn]

I'm dying to test it to ascertain the three improvements we think the design will bring, good looks is decidedly not one of them, though I think we got that one dialed in.

I hope that goes well for you, as I'm eager to hear what these improvements are!

[Duffy]

I'm getting our camera equipment in order, finally will get a chance to use my Hog Saddle and old tripod I recently camo painted :P

[Duffy]

Our partners in TX will commence testing with short barreled rifles and machine guns, while we do the other tests here. If only I could find someone to be the muzzle strike tester [BD]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_8838_zpstadkgkkj.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_8838_zpstadkgkkj.jpg.html)

[Aragorn]

Yeaaaaaah I can already tell I'm gonna need on for the itty-bitty .300BLK I'm working on...

Here's looking to positive results. ;)

[Duffy]

Thank you [adore]

I do want to keep the 308 version as short as possible, most likely the same length as the 6315.

And it will be called 6310 :P

[Joelski]

I'd be more than happy to test one out. Always willing to help a brother get data. [:D]

I like that a lot.

[Slippers]

While you're at it, make an ASR version and Surefire RC version. Seriously!

[Joelski]

And a taper mount version for good measure!

[din]

Our partners in TX will commence testing with short barreled rifles and machine guns, while we do the other tests here. If only I could find someone to be the muzzle strike tester [BD]

I think you'll have a more difficult time finding someone to be the muzzle strike testee.

[Duffy]

Will, I'm not familiar with various sound suppressors. I don't know if these guys will come after me for making a compatible mount. We'll also have no way to test it, being unable to obtain the can and all :(

If you or anyone wants to make suppressor specific mounts based on the 6315 design, let's talk! [:D] We're too small to make a lot of different versions.

[Duffy]

Oops [:)]

[Slippers]

Silencerco is open to it for the ASR. They did the BE Meyers flash hider in both Trifecta and ASR varieties.

I'll ask one of my friends at Silencerco if they'll give us some specifications and drawings.

[Deadwing]

Silencerco is open to it for the ASR. They did the BE Meyers flash hider in both Trifecta and ASR varieties.

I'll ask one of my friends at Silencerco if they'll give us some specifications and drawings.

While you're talking to your buddies at SilencerCo, get them working on an A2 compatible MAAD mount for my Sakers! Then i could ditch the Trifecta mounts that came with my cans for Roger's 6315, and use my cans on more uppers. The Trifecta MAAD mounts getting stuck on muzzle devices is getting old...

[UWone77]

While you're talking to your buddies at SilencerCo, get them working on an A2 compatible MAAD mount for my Sakers! Then i could ditch the Trifecta mounts that came with my cans for Roger's 6315, and use my cans on more uppers. The Trifecta MAAD mounts getting stuck on muzzle devices is getting old...

Gotta take them off while they're hot. Only reason I have a suppressor cover. Got tired of stuck Surefire Cans.

[Deadwing]

Gotta take them off while they're hot. Only reason I have a suppressor cover. Got tired of stuck Surefire Cans.

Is that the trick? I've put a can on a gun at room temperature, left it sit for a day, and had it stick. No shooting or heating/cooling cycle.

[Slippers]

Is that the trick? I've put a can on a gun at room temperature, left it sit for a day, and had it stick. No shooting or heating/cooling cycle.

My trifecta maad was the same way. Look at it wrong and it got stuck. Silencerco replaced it twice. Finally I asked for the ASR maad and they swapped out all my muzzle devices as well. Been fine ever since.

I highly recommend you do the same. They have great customer service and it won't cost you anything. There's a reason no other can has the trifecta and the new sakers come with ASR mounts.

[Deadwing]

My trifecta maad was the same way. Look at it wrong and it got stuck. Silencerco replaced it twice. Finally I asked for the ASR maad and they swapped out all my muzzle devices as well. Been fine ever since.

I highly recommend you do the same. They have great customer service and it won't cost you anything. There's a reason no other can has the trifecta and the new sakers come with ASR mounts.

I've noticed that. Everything has the ASR mount, which baffled me at first given how much energy they put into promoting the Trifecta mounting system when they rolled it out. Then i bought a 51T MAAD mount so i could use my Sakers on uppers with AAC mounts. The mount works just like the ASR, and i found i like it better than the Trifecta (only after i spent hundreds on muzzle devices). The Trifecta design is great in theory, but in practice i do like the ASR system better. I guess i'll send them an email and see if they're keen on sending me eight muzzle devices (nine including my B.E. Meyers 249 Saker) and two ASR MAAD mounts.

[din]

I wonder if Dead Air would get on board. I'd like to think they would since they started making their own muzzle devices for the Silencerco cans.

[Pyzik]

Those are looking good. I like the shape of the "ports".

[Duffy]

I have a muzzle brake made by the late Kurt of Kurt's Kustom, those that have been on arfcom for a long time should remember him fondly. It too has the oval, tapered slots of the Stoner 63, that was back in 2001 or 2002. It's loud and obnoxious as most brakes are, and likes to vibrate loose items till they've fallen off the table.

Which is not what 6315 will be doing. Like many, I've come a full circle with the choice of muzzle devices. I still like all of them comps, brakes, and fancy (read: expensive) flash suppressors for what they do and their workmanship, but I've come to appreciate the A2 for its simplicity and effectiveness.

The 6310 (308 version) will not be longer than the 6315. AR10 A2 is 2", 6315 is 1.80". Since we're not changing anything except the threading and bullet exit hole diameter, 6310 will probably follow 6315 fairly quickly to market.

AR10 A2 isn't compatible with M16 BFAs (too long, and the grooves on the AR10 A2 are out of spec [crazy]), both the 6315 and 6310 will be.

[Duffy]

4130 uncoated prototype arrived, they need some work but overall I'm happy [:D]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/6315bfa_zpsilzcjolo.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/6315bfa_zpsilzcjolo.jpg.html)

[UWone77]

4310 uncoated prototype arrived, they need some work but overall I'm happy [:D]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/6315bfa_zpsilzcjolo.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/6315bfa_zpsilzcjolo.jpg.html)

Roger that looks great. You should do some in Stainless finish. I think they would look nice with some stainless barrels!

[GOST]

I agree with UW, some stainless ones would be nice.

[Duffy]

Rich, SS and Ti are both options. I have an internal debate, I don't think either side has all the right answers.
I want to get rid of all the life style fashion stuff from our lineup (we don't have many, just products that are shiny), but they sell well, pay the bills and development of other products. Customers do ask for them when they're out of stock, so I know there's a demand for it.

I don't want Forward Controls to be associated with fashion choices, but we have to keep the lights on too....

[GOST]

I've always wanted a NiB coated muzzle device. I like how it discolors the BCG the more you shoot it. It would be like Hypercolor clothes that changed color when you sweated.

[Aragorn]

4310 uncoated prototype arrived, they need some work but overall I'm happy [:D]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/6315bfa_zpsilzcjolo.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/6315bfa_zpsilzcjolo.jpg.html)

*GASP*

Need.

And nitrided or possibly looking at SS, or Ti? Damn it I thought the decision making was over!

[Duffy]

When SHOT is over we'll get cranking and finish the 4130 version. Ti and SS aren't ruled out, and at least one is likely to make it :)

[UWone77]

I like SS for muzzle devices over Ti, reason being I think the weight savings vs cost in a muzzle device isn't there.

[din]

So are you doing phosphated carbon steel, or DLC stainless?

[Duffy]

They will be black nitrided [:)]

[SINNER]

That 4310 is a high chromium steel IIRC. I wonder how they would hold up with a blasted or polished finish?

[Deadwing]

4310 uncoated prototype arrived, they need some work but overall I'm happy [:D]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/6315bfa_zpsilzcjolo.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/6315bfa_zpsilzcjolo.jpg.html)


That is stellar! I'll be needing several in the nitride finish!

Do you have plans to include shims or crush washers with these, Roger?

[Duffy]

Correction, the material is 4130, as specified by TDP.

A crush washer is included. We can't very well advise not to re-use a crush washer on the instruction card, and not include a new one [:D]

[fledge]

Duffy, do you prefer crush washers over shims?

[Duffy]

I don't have a preference between the two, I do what the manufacturer recommends. A shim kit would add cost to the product so I'm not keen on that idea unless we can get these kits at a decent price.

The Army field manual, part of which that deals with the A2 installation has been "re-purposed / borrowed" is on the 6315 instruction card, says: tighten a minimum of 90 degrees, but no more than 450 degrees to align center of the middle slot with the post of the front sight assembly.

That "more than 450 degrees" was mentioned must mean someone actually did that lol. Crush washers can be a pain sometimes.

[Deadwing]

Duffy, do you prefer crush washers over shims?

I've timed a couple of my A2 flash hiders with shims with the intent of mounting a can to it. But i never got an A2 compatible can. i'd REALLY love to see SilencerCo release an A2 compatible MAAD mount for their Saker series.

I just use a crush washer normally. Roger's product is so nice (and again, i'd really like to use it as a suppressor mount sometime in the future) that i'll probably use shims.

[Tyrant Designs CNC]

Looking good. We approve!

[Duffy]

Thank you :)
We're making some last minute changes to the 6315, these changes will carry over to the 6310 as well. The wire cutter notches will be slightly deeper, they're fairly shallow now, though they're deep enough to line up a cable 0.20" in diameter.

We're at the very beginning of the 6315's development cycle, if it proves successful in the market, more material and suppressor mount options will be made available. If they're made into suppressor mounts, they'd ship with shim kits, not crush washers.

[SINNER]

Correction, the material is 4130, as specified by TDP.

A crush washer is included. We can't very well advise not to re-use a crush washer on the instruction card, and not include a new one [:D]

Gotcha. Still elevated Chromium and Molybdenum but not very rust resistant.

[Duffy]

We'll be doing some testing this weekend with the ones we have. Production units will be slightly different, not very noticeable by naked eyes. Larger inside port openings and deeper wire cutter notches, the general characteristics can be tested with what we have.

We'll end up with couple dozens of "old" 6315s we'll keep on hand for giveaways and stuff [:D]

The current wire alignment notches work well, they hold a 0.2" cable without undue movement. I'd like to keep the cable more secure once aligned, thus the notches will be slightly deeper.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/WC_zpsf5l5cey8.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/WC_zpsf5l5cey8.jpg.html)

[alamo5000]

Duffy, do you prefer crush washers over shims?

I know the question was directed at Duffy but in all honesty I think it just depends. Crush washers are easier to use but shims are much better for a suppressor mount.

If you're not going to put a can on the gun I don't really know the benefits of a shim set. So that would leave crush washer the winner for general non suppressed use.

[fledge]

It was directed at Duffy to see if he has an opinion, because he's always got some technical reason brewing.

I always use shims of some form. It's easier for me. I don't see the advantage of a crush washer, personally.

[Duffy]

I learn this from you guys, and from the same sources over the years [:D] I agree with Alamo5000.

Suppressor mounts don't always ship with a shim kit, Battle Comp does with its BC 2.0, but ships a crush washer or no washer at all, probably for the same reason, they made the 2.0 to the same dimensions as an A2 because some suppressors require it.

The reason I understand is crush washers don't get compressed evenly and can tilt the muzzle device on which the sound suppressor is mounted. In the case of some Surefire suppressor mounts that slip over the barrel, a crush washer won't even work, as its outer diameter is larger than that of the barrel.

[GOST]

I like to use Precision Armament Accu-Washers.

https://www.rainierarms.com/precision-armament-accu-washer-muzzle-alignment-1-2x28

[Duffy]

We can have a mandatory option, choices of a crush washer, or a cost added shims set. That way it'd be convenient for folks to choose and have what they need shipped in one package.

[Deadwing]

We'll be doing some testing this weekend with the ones we have. Production units will be slightly different, not very noticeable by naked eyes. Larger inside port openings and deeper wire cutter notches, the general characteristics can be tested with what we have.

We'll end up with couple dozens of "old" 6315s we'll keep on hand for giveaways and stuff [:D]

The current wire alignment notches work well, they hold a 0.2" cable without undue movement. I'd like to keep the cable more secure once aligned, thus the notches will be slightly deeper.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/WC_zpsf5l5cey8.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/WC_zpsf5l5cey8.jpg.html)

Looking good, Roger! I can't wait to get a few of these on my guns, old version or not!

[fledge]

I like to use Precision Armament Accu-Washers.

https://www.rainierarms.com/precision-armament-accu-washer-muzzle-alignment-1-2x28

Same here. I use when I need more than 2 thin shims.

[Duffy]

Good news: 6310 (5/8 x 24 TPI) will most likely be ready at the same time as the 6315 [:D]

Armalite's A2 is longer, 6310 is the same length as 6315 at 1.8", it only has a different thread pitch and bullet exit hole diameter.

The heavy rain this weekend precludes us from testing it, but it's just as well. I want to test the latest prototype anyway, the current version is likely to exhibit similar characteristics but we need to test them side by side, along with an A2.

[cjd3]

I like to use Precision Armament Accu-Washers.

https://www.rainierarms.com/precision-armament-accu-washer-muzzle-alignment-1-2x28

These are fantastic. All my brakes are timed with them.

[din]

These are fantastic. All my brakes are timed with them.

nthing this.

[Duffy]

What do you guys think about the PWS shims kit?

[Iraqgunz]

Nice! I'd love to get one of these with a DLC coating. That would be the cat's ass.

[Deadwing]

What do you guys think about the PWS shims kit?

I haven't purchased any of the PWS kits, but from googling them, they look exactly like what Battle Comp used to (or still does) include with the Battle Comp 2.0. They work fine, but i'd like to see the kit include more than just one of the really thin shim for fine tuning.

The system Surefire uses (it's been a while since i installed a Surefire brake, so things could have changed) with the color coded shims and the timing "wheel" chart worked really well when i installed a MB556K brake years ago.

Ive also used the Precision Armament Accu-Washer system with great success in 5.56 and .308 applications.

[Slippers]

The surefire shim kits are great because they include the beveled washer for barrels that don't have the relief cut behind the threads next to the shoulder.

[Duffy]

Thank you guys, we will have both shim kits as options ;)

[Deadwing]

I can't wait to get my hands on these. I have uppers that need these.

[fledge]

The PWS kit comes with the Dead Air devices. They work well. I prefer them over crush washers.

[din]

I guess I should probably pay-it-forward with the shims that came with all my Dead Air brakes and flash hiders since I use the PA kits on everything, just need to go through my parts bin when I have a non-lazy minute at home.

[Aragorn]

Sooooo how'd testing go over the weekend? [:D]

[Pyzik]

I've been looking at these for some time. A friend has one I played with and seem nice.

https://rouschsports.com/shop/tools/gunsmith-tools-ar15/go-nuts-jam-nut-melonite-qpq-12-28-916-24-58-24/

[Duffy]

We didn't test them last weekend, CA had some uncharacteristic rain storms that made national news [BD] Both 6310 and 6315 have been redesigned a bit with larger ports and internal cone cavity, which renders the current batch invalid candidates for testing [BD]

[Aragorn]

We didn't test them last weekend, CA had some uncharacteristic rain storms that made national news [BD] Both 6310 and 6315 have been redesigned a bit with larger ports and internal cone cavity, which renders the current batch invalid candidates for testing [BD]

Roger, Roger.

[Deadwing]

Roger, Roger.

Reminds me of a guy i used to work with lol.

Me: "Hey, Gary, Delta is whining about light chop at FL360. He's your control if he wants to move"

Gary: "Roger, roger."

[Deadwing]

We didn't test them last weekend, CA had some uncharacteristic rain storms that made national news [BD] Both 6310 and 6315 have been redesigned a bit with larger ports and internal cone cavity, which renders the current batch invalid candidates for testing [BD]

Tis a pity to have them go to waste...

[Duffy]

They won't go to waste. I suspect they'll be fine (as in equal to A2), but we have higher expectations [:D]
We'll give them away as prizes and such, with the knowledge that they are the pre-production prototypes, though perfectly usable.

Of the three things we want to test, two of them have to wait till the new prototypes arrive, as the results obtained from the early prototypes can't be used to validate things.

The outside ports will look more like the design (the first prototypes have oval, tapered ports), they should be more angular:
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/6315_zpsdw4kvo46.png (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/6315_zpsdw4kvo46.png.html)

But that's just aesthetics, I don't mind if they look like the way the early prototypes do now.

[Aragorn]

Reminds me of a guy i used to work with lol.

Me: "Hey, Gary, Delta is whining about light chop at FL360. He's your control if he wants to move"

Gary: "Roger, roger."

Are you an ATC?

[Aragorn]

They won't go to waste. I suspect they'll be fine (as in equal to A2), but we have higher expectations [:D]
We'll give them away as prizes and such, with the knowledge that they are the pre-production prototypes, though perfectly usable.

Of the three things we want to test, two of them have to wait till the new prototypes arrive, as the results obtained from the early prototypes can't be used to validate things.

The outside ports will look more like the design (the first prototypes have oval, tapered ports), they should be more angular:
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/6315_zpsdw4kvo46.png (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/6315_zpsdw4kvo46.png.html)

But that's just aesthetics, I don't mind if they look like the way the early prototypes do now.

These new ports look sweet. Don't think I've seen anything else quite like them.

[Duffy]

The ports are based on the Stoner 63 LMG, but they look a bit like the HK flash suppressor [:)]

[Deadwing]

They won't go to waste. I suspect they'll be fine (as in equal to A2), but we have higher expectations [:D]
We'll give them away as prizes and such, with the knowledge that they are the pre-production prototypes, though perfectly usable.

Of the three things we want to test, two of them have to wait till the new prototypes arrive, as the results obtained from the early prototypes can't be used to validate things.

The outside ports will look more like the design (the first prototypes have oval, tapered ports), they should be more angular:
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/6315_zpsdw4kvo46.png (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/6315_zpsdw4kvo46.png.html)

But that's just aesthetics, I don't mind if they look like the way the early prototypes do now.

You're such a tease, Roger. That looks great. My rifles NEED that.

[Deadwing]

Are you an ATC?

Yessiree. ZSE (Seattle ARTCC).

[Aragorn]

Yessiree. ZSE (Seattle ARTCC).

Ha! I wonder if we've ever talked. We don't get up that way often, but if you hear (or have heard) callsign Twister, that might just be me.

[Deadwing]

Ha! I wonder if we've ever talked. We don't get up that way often, but if you hear (or have heard) callsign Twister, that might just be me.

Is Twister TTX? Sounds familiar. If you've ever flown in to the Seattle terminal area, there's a good chance we've talked to one another. I'll keep my eyes open and give a shout out. [BD]

[Duffy]

Here's a question for you guys, your opinion is requested [:D]

In the beginning we were planning on 6315A1 and 6315A2, the A2 is what we made first, with the close bottom. The A1 version is pretty easy to develop, it may offer better flash suppression but it won't work as a comp and it would have more dust signature when shooting from prone.

I kind of gave up on the A1 version and went straight to the .30 cal version (6310). These days, it seems unless you're building a retro AR, there's scant reason for an A1 bird cage.

Your thoughts please [adore]

[GOST]

A2 version would be what I'd buy, couldn't see myself buying the A1.

[Stone]

A2

[Deadwing]

I'd be going the A2 route myself.

[Aragorn]

Is Twister TTX? Sounds familiar. If you've ever flown in to the Seattle terminal area, there's a good chance we've talked to one another. I'll keep my eyes open and give a shout out. [BD]

Yup! That's our company callsign. May or may not be me flying through depending on rotation, but here's hoping for another trip that way soon!


Here's a question for you guys, your opinion is requested [:D]

In the beginning we were planning on 6315A1 and 6315A2, the A2 is what we made first, with the close bottom. The A1 version is pretty easy to develop, it may offer better flash suppression but it won't work as a comp and it would have more dust signature when shooting from prone.

I kind of gave up on the A1 version and went straight to the .30 cal version (6310). These days, it seems unless you're building a retro AR, there's scant reason for an A1 bird cage.

Your thoughts please [adore]

Definitely the A2.

[Slippers]

I like the A1 because I don't have to time it. :)

Most of the suppressor mount flash hiders kick up dust regardless of how you orient them, so I guess I don't really care about the lack of ports on the underside of the A2.

[Duffy]

Right, I think the concussion kicks up dust. Noveske's pig brake has no ports, it still stirs up enough dust, but maybe less than a device with downward facing ports.

[Duffy]

Custom made clam shell and instructions card, both are in final stages of completion [BD]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_2147_zpsj8aeyuyr.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_2147_zpsj8aeyuyr.jpg.html)

[Aragorn]

Yusssssssss.

[John Hwang]

Looking good Roger

[Duffy]

BTW, thank you everyone for your input re: 6315 in A1 form, we'll go straight to 6310 after 6315 is complete [:D]

[fledge]

If HPA passes, I'll buy a can for the A2 just so I can have a 6315 in the stable.

[Duffy]

Haha thank you for your confidence and support! [:D]

[Deadwing]

I'm looking forward to getting a hold of a few of these, Roger!

[Duffy]

Can anyone tell the difference between the two? Yeah I know we mull over small details [crazy]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/6315%20rev_zpsfozvckkp.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/6315%20rev_zpsfozvckkp.jpg.html)

[cjd3]

Can anyone tell the difference between the two? Yeah I know we mull over small details [crazy]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/6315%20rev_zpsfozvckkp.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/6315%20rev_zpsfozvckkp.jpg.html)

Is the one one left angled wrong? Wrench flat and wire cutter are off if we are looking at the top port. Port looks smaller on the right too.

[Duffy]

It's just the angle. The latest prototype (left) has a larger cone cavity and inside port opening. The wire cutter notches are deeper too but only sightly so, it's not easy to notice.

Today we're looking at an open ended version, tentatively calling it 2415 [:D]

[Duffy]

Black nitrided sample came back, though this is still the earliest prototype, I'm pretty happy with the result :P

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/6315%202_zpslklx7ujs.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/6315%202_zpslklx7ujs.jpg.html)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_2150_zpskx151ohd.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_2150_zpskx151ohd.jpg.html)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_2149_zpsqu4je7sp.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_2149_zpsqu4je7sp.jpg.html)

[GOST]

Looks good Roger.

[din]

Noice.

[Joelski]

Sweet!

[Deadwing]

That looks great, Roger.

[Pyzik]

I wouldn't have known it was a protoype. Looks good.

[Aragorn]

Yeeeeeah these are looking good.

[Tyrant Designs CNC]

Keep us updated. These look great. I'd love to see them in action.

[Duffy]

Will do. Has everyone's business slowed down a bit since the election? It doesn't really matter to us, we're still bringing out products that have been waiting to be made, like the EMR-A, but some have been put on the back burner.

[Stone]

I have been reading all over the internet that firearm sales, background checks, ammo sales, etc.,etc. have slowed down. A lot of us stocked up for the worst case scenario (hillary). I still build and shoot just as much but might be a few months or so before I need to restock.

[Cotton68spc]

Gotta take them off while they're hot. Only reason I have a suppressor cover. Got tired of stuck Surefire Cans.

I had this problem once put some modern spartan oil on it after I shot the can it's been a year and haven't had one get stuck might be a fluke but it might work for ya , I can send you some if you want to try it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gator]

Looks great! I assume these are manufactured to tighter tolerances than the old A2, thereby, making them "safer" to mount A2 compatible suppressors to?

[Duffy]

6315 is billet machined from bar stock using A2 specs, A2 specs and tolerances were adhered to save for the areas where we made changes, including 0.04 extra length, larger cone cavity, ports shapes, and the wire cutter alignment notches.

My BFA rattles around an A2, but is quite snug on the 6315 final prototype.

Interesting note is the specs we have don't correspond to the Colt A2 we have on hand, the current production ports are much larger than specified on paper, prompting us to do a minor redesign of the ports [BD]

Instead of just making the ports larger, we made the cone cavity larger which opened up the ports, and affords the 6315 more internal volume at the same time.

Also I might as well spill the beans here. 1815 is the next project, based on the 6315 body and specs, but is a 3 prong, open ended flash suppressor/compensator. Like the number 63 in the 6315's name sake, 18 has a meaning. Also like the 6315, 1815 is a flash suppressor first, and compensator second, but it will be a better compensator than the 6315, and probably a better flash suppressor as well.

So why make both [crazy] I actually just asked myself and don't have a sound reason, other than because we can. Realistically though, 6315 is more conservative than 1815 and somewhat "stealthy" in that you'd have to pay attention to see it's different, which is usually how we like to do things, discreetly and quietly, without calling attention to ourselves, we're not in the fashion business. 1815 is still discreet, it's not obscenely long, it doesn't have unnecessary machining that doesn't contribute to functionality, so we're still in the boundaries of our way and means.

[UWone77]

Looking forward to the open prong.

[Gator]

Thanks for spilling the beans, Roger. :) So, with the 1815 being off the same body and specs as the 6315, does this mean it'll be
A) the same length as the 6315 and B) be theoretically compatible with A2 mounting suppressors?

[Duffy]

Gator, it should be. They use the same body, which the can be made into either 6315 or 1815. Both are 0.04" longer than the A2, it should not be an issue with A2 compatible sound suppressors :P

[Aragorn]

Well crap... with the same dimensions... guess I'll need an 1810.


Gonna be weird waiting on a muzzle device/s to finish out a project. And worth it no doubt.

[Duffy]

6315 will be in production shortly, whereas the 1815 may have to wait till the EMR-A (ambi mag release) is complete [BD]

[Gator]

Awesome. Thanks for confirming. Keep up the great work!

[Duffy]

We arrived at 0430, with the hope of having at least an hour's worth of darkness for filming 6315 and A2 flash suppression footage. Videos of A2 muzzle flash are abundant, still we wanted the ammo, barrel length and atmospheric conditions to be equal when we compare the two.

Alas, by the time we got set up, it was no longer pitch dark, but it was low light enough we still had to use flashlights to go about things.

The pictures shown here are from 30fps video footage, we opened up the aperture to capture as much flash as possible, but in so doing, it made the background appear brighter. Allow me to assure you, it was quite dark still [BD] We have other pictures from a camera with manual aperture, but I don't have the images yet. As you will see shortly, the day brightened up very quickly between the 14.5 and 10.5 tests.

The tests confirmed our prediction regarding the flash signature. Within the established confines of the A2 specs (length, diameter, closed end, closed bottom), we were able to squeeze out only a little better flash suppression with the 6315. The pictures from the footage don't show the improvement, it was visually verified by those present. When we get the footage from the other camera we should be able to show with more authority.

The most important aspect we wanted to test/confirm is 6315's compensator abilities. As you recall, 6315 has asymmetrical ports. 3 and 9 o'clock ports are shorter and narrower, and are 25% smaller than the other 3 upward facing ports. The design vents more gas through the larger 3 upward facing ports than the smaller 2 side facing ports to help keep the muzzle down better.

Test results were obtained from experienced shooters and a new shooter. Same test rig, ammo (XM193), different muzzle devices (A2 and 6315). They were able to confirm through repeated strings of fire that the 6315 changed the characteristics of the muzzle rise. With the 6315, the muzzle rise isn't eliminated (not a design objective, this isn't a pure compensator or brake), it's perceptibly reduced, they were able to get back on target faster than with an A2. The test rig has a 4x32 ACOG ECOS, it's a permanent fixture on my test rig and it was used for this test to better see the difference in muzzle rise.

Here then, we have the essence of the 6315. A versatile, light and short muzzle device, compatible with BFA and A2 mounted sound suppressors, that suppresses muzzle flash signature as well (if not better than the A2), keeps the muzzle rise down (better than the A2), without the concussion and noise that accompany a brake or compensator. We're happy with the results :P

Now the pics.

Test rig:
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/6315%20test%20rig_zpsk1jsbfrp.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/6315%20test%20rig_zpsk1jsbfrp.jpg.html)



http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/14.5%20comp_zpszl9q1qlh.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/14.5%20comp_zpszl9q1qlh.jpg.html)

[UWone77]

Looking forward to the video.

[Pyzik]

Pretty darn close to what I was expecting to see. Though I missed that the ports are different sizes from a previous post.
Also looking forward to the video.

[Duffy]

I went over the videos long and hard, it is difficult to discern the muzzle rise difference when there is a person behind it. Then I remembered we shot footage of the AR on a Hog Saddle mounted on a tripod to capture flash signature. The AR wasn't shouldered (on a pistol receiver and couldn't be shouldered anyway), it was clamped down on the Hog Saddle, so the muzzle rise and tripod movement are quite visible , and actually showed the muzzle rise difference between the two.

10.5, with A2

https://youtu.be/J_TX5Em9-Bk

[Duffy]

10.5 with 6315

https://youtu.be/rPiLfkM_xQY

[Duffy]

The port size different can be hard to detect in a 2D photo. In this photo for instance, it doesn't show the 3 o'clock port's shorter length, only that it's narrower.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/portsize_zpsdabcnpvx.png (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/portsize_zpsdabcnpvx.png.html)

[Duffy]

6315 ordering page is up, though it's out of stock for a while.
http://forwardcontrolsdesign.com/6315-Flash-Suppressor-Compensator_p_76.html

I'd love to get other flash suppressor manufacturers to get on board with the "Annoy a liberal, use a flash suppressor" campaign. John, are you up for it? :P

[KevinBLC]

genuinely curious here. am I missing something? the performance between the pictures look the same. Isnt this just a more expensive a2 ?

[Duffy]

The flash suppression performance is about the same, compensator performance is improved. As mentioned earlier, working with the confines of an A2 dimensions places limitations. If it's longer and has open prongs, it'd work better as a flash suppressor, but it wouldn't be a comp and wouldn't be compatible with BFA and A2 mounted sound suppressors anymore.

You won't see the drastic performance difference between a pure comp or brake and an A2, nor the difference of a B.E. Meyers 249F and an A2. 6315 isn't meant to compete with single purpose devices, it's meant to squeeze out as much performance as possible in an A2 sized muzzle device.

6315 is an A2 spec flash suppressor/comp, and does a better job in the comp department than an A2. It's machined from billet stock and black nitrided, and is far more precisely made than the $8 A2. Better fit and finish is nice but not the only justification for its development. We were able to eek out gains in compensator performance while staying in A2 dimensions, and 6315 is still a flash suppressor at the same time.

[UWone77]

I'd love to use a stainless version of this... and no one else is making one of those!

[Duffy]

17-4 SS and Ti are both possible :)

[Aragorn]

So, what's the ETA on the 6310? ;)

[Duffy]

Behind the EMR-A and 1815 [BD]

Re: EMR-A, we might be offering paddle / lever options, we'll know in a few days.

[GOST]

Looking forward to seeing the EMR-A.

[Duffy]

Last weekend at Cola Warrior West III

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/6315%20PROTO_zpsxvqoyvk4.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/6315%20PROTO_zpsxvqoyvk4.jpg.html)

[Joelski]

I like it. Ti in a 1.7" length please!

[Duffy]

1815 needs to come out first :P

[IamDan]

Last weekend at Cola Warrior West III

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/6315%20PROTO_zpsxvqoyvk4.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/6315%20PROTO_zpsxvqoyvk4.jpg.html)

Roger,

Thank you so much for coming out to Colawarrior West and letting us check out your parts, and talking to us about gun stuff.

Honestly, the quality and intuitiveness of the parts blew me away. When you explained things and why you made design decisions, I kept wondering "why no one else had ever thought of that"

[Duffy]

CW West III was fun even if I didn't run, I met you and other folks that felt as though we had known each other for years, that happens rarely. It's the people that make CW great, total strangers that already have something in common makes for unit cohesion.

Thanks for listening to me rambling about the thought process that went into everything, I usually lose people about half way through [crazy] I'm critical of everything I see, especially the stuff we put out. There are always changes being made to new designs, and old ones (like ABC/R v2), drives our CAD guy and Wiley Arms, which makes almost everything we design, crazy, but I don't want to settle.

I look forward to seeing you guys again soon [:D]

[IamDan]

I think we did lose a couple of people when the two of us got going. But then again my day job means I deal with all sorts of crazy designers and engineers all day anyway, and if I get to talk about actual engineering for stuff I care about, I get spoiled up pretty easily.

Honestly what I love about your parts is that they are simple and elegant solutions or improvements. I may be loud and boisterous as a person, but I don't like overcomplicated mechanicals. I like stuff that works well and feels natural to use, or does its job without you knowing about it, and your stuff nails that concept.

Of course I also picked up to Colawarrior muzzle devices while I was there, and they aren't going to get used after the 6315 comes out, but everyone else at the range is going to be ecstatic when I swap my sidewinder for your birdcage.

[Duffy]

I saw the CW muzzle devices and thought that couldn't possibly be what they'd thread onto their barrels, it doesn't do anything [crazy]

But I realized that's not the point lol.

I don't like flashy things that call attention to themselves. I've refused to adorn our products with necessary fashion touches, probably to our detriment. With the 6315, it's as plain as can be, which some have already commented that it doesn't look very different from the A2 on which it's based, little do they know that's kind of the idea, 6315 is meant to be somewhat stealthy, and not yelling "look at me!" because that has no practical use.

[IamDan]

Well I'm the guy who flew into Vegas with a Safety Orange rifle case, and I am planning a Camo Chrome paint job for my next build, because sometimes foolishness and not taking yourself seriously is fun.

[Duffy]

camo chrome? [:D]

[IamDan]

If you are going to be ridiculous, you might as well go the the extreme.

And why are you surprised, you saw my tattoos and clothes.

[Duffy]

It was cold, we were all covered up, you had less clothes on than some, I remember one or two tats. I do remember one of the guys tucked his SIG inside his jeans as a daily carry [BD]

6315 went to heat treat, then black nitride platting couple of days ago, we're a week or so from launching :)

[Deadwing]

6315 went to heat treat, then black nitride platting couple of days ago, we're a week or so from launching :)

How many will be in the first batch? I want to make sure i grab a couple before they sell out!

[Duffy]

A few hundred units, be sure to use your WEVO code :P

[Deadwing]

A few hundred units, be sure to use your WEVO code :P

Awesome, thanks Roger!

[Duffy]

We'll have a special batch for CW. If you guys get a 6315, would you prefer a logo laser engraved (tastefully small) on the bottom, or plain?

[IamDan]

We'll have a special batch for CW. If you guys get a 6315, would you prefer a logo laser engraved (tastefully small) on the bottom, or plain?



Are you seriously asking that? Colabros mention Colawarrior more than Vegans talk about their diet. There are guys who wear nothing but CW t-shirts at the gym, and other guys who have CW tattoos. One guy had custom CW patches made for his Chuck Taylors.

Of course we want it marked with a CW logo.

[Duffy]

Well the 6315s with CW logo is a sure thing. When we first receive the 6315s, none of them will have any engraving, we need to send them to Weapon Genetics to engrave, we'll have the rest with our own logo as well. But it'll delay the launch of 6315 by a few days to weeks, depending on how busy Cody is.

So the plan is to have plain 6315s available while the rest gets laser engraved, unless folks (non-CW) really want them with our logos and not plain, in which case, we'll delay the 6315 launch.

[Pyzik]

I don't cola war, wish I did, looks fun.

If I had a choice between a plain one and a FCD logo, id take the logo.
I like your logo.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Duffy]

We'll have laser engraved 6315s! It will set the launch date back a bit, but we're not in a hurry. Consider how long the EMR-A has been in development, 6315 went from an idea to prototype, then production in months, a few weeks is nothing [:D]

[Deadwing]

In general, my preference as of late is no logos, if it's an option. Most companies go overboard plastering their products with giant, garish logos (BCGs are among the worst offenders). And after paying hard earned cash for said product, i wind up pimping their brand for them without getting a cut of the action.

However, since your logo is actually pretty cool looking and is thoughtful in design, i wouldn't mind it on my 6315s. But, i'm holding you to your word that it'll be "tastefully small". [BD]

[Duffy]

The laser engraved logo is 0.4" in diameter, and it's subdued, and on the bottom of the 6315, I'm fairly certain we will not be able to get any free advertising from it, in any case it's not the reason [BD] Given the complete absence of logo on any of our products, you can tell I"m with you re: overuse of logos on products. I routinely make fun of companies that must have their logos everywhere, it tells me they're selling the brand when they should pay more attention to the item the logo is on.

Since we're doing a batch with the CW logo, and there is a huge canvas on the bottom of the 6315, a discreet logo can be placed there without calling attention to itself, you know that's not our way :P

[Deadwing]

The laser engraved logo is 0.4" in diameter, and it's subdued, and on the bottom of the 6315, I'm fairly certain we will not be able to get any free advertising from it, in any case it's not the reason [BD] Given the complete absence of logo on any of our products, you can tell I"m with you re: overuse of logos on products. I routinely make fun of companies that must have their logos everywhere, it tells me they're selling the brand when they should pay more attention to the item the logo is on.

Since we're doing a batch with the CW logo, and there is a huge canvas on the bottom of the 6315, a discreet logo can be placed there without calling attention to itself, you know that's not our way :P

I dig your philosophy, Roger. Even if it's sole purpose was free advertising (which i never figured it was), i still wouldn't mind the logo. :P

[Duffy]

We won't make a habit of it. Most of our products are so small, there's no place for a logo anyway. The next project to be produced only has a 0.148 diameter, definitely no room for a logo there :P

[IamDan]

I don't cola war, wish I did, looks fun.

If I had a choice between a plain one and a FCD logo, id take the logo.
I like your logo.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk



You should Colawarrior, it is horrible. You want to die, you regret ever decision that led to you signing up, and then it's done, you go home, and then you can't wait to go again.

Roger was there, he can tell you that ColaBros are the best bros. Stand up amazing people. I think it is because the competition is so humbling. The obstacles and the run arent hard, but they kick your adrenaline into gear and Jack your breathing and heart rate, and suddenly that easy shooting course becomes almost impossible. And then you chug, which always sounds easier than it is. It's horrible, it's painful, but you force yourself though it, and then you get to start talking smack to everyone else. The key is to not give up. CW will teach you where you are weak and where you are strong, and no matter how good or badly you do, you will be driven to get better for next time.


That being said, this is Rogers thread, and since he is a CW Sponsor I don't want to get too off topic. (He gave me patches and a magnet, he can do no wrong now), if you want to talk about CW, hit me with a message or if enough people want to know more, I can start a thread.

[IamDan]

Logos are important on products. So far all of FC's stuff has been very identifiable and didn't really NEED a logo. But the 6315 is different, simply because it is a high tech part that is going to look very simple to a very basic part, it needs to be easily identifiable in its own right.

I used to develop parts for the Automotive racing community, and if you didn't have a good way to brand your stuff, counterfeits would pop up quick, which didn't hurt sales too badly at first, but it would kill your reputation in the long run. Second hand buyers can't tell the real McCoy from the fake, and it would dilute the brand.

I actually used to include unused mounting points or features, just to mess with the guys trying to reverse engineering my stuff.


ITAR really cuts down on slot of the counterfeits in the guns scene, but you can find all sorts of stuff on Alibaba or AliExpress if you know where to look.

[Duffy]

Common hardship has a way of building strong bonds, CW is a fun way to get to know a group of fun loving guys, guns aren't a big part of it.

Re: branding, I don't like being used by manufacturers to advertise for them unless I want to, I'm also aware some folks also don't like it. I do believe that if the brand logo is used subtly and in good taste, it identifies the product without calling attention to itself, which is the only useful feature to me.

Of course it goes way beyond that, a logo can have other uses (that are not our intended uses), it can serve as a badge of honor for those that own the product, bragging right, so to speak, but this is not our reason, we're not big or well known enough for that. When we are, we won't do badge engineering.

The logo is an identifier as Dan pointed out.

[IamDan]

Pffft. FC parts are some of the nicest parts I own.

[GOST]

Look forward to seeing the Cygnus on the 6315.

[Deadwing]

...we're not big or well known enough for that.

You may not be big (yet), but you're certainly well known to anyone who's paying attention. The thoughtfulness of design and quality in production that your products bring to the table are second to none. Not to mention your customer service. Those are just a few of the reasons my FCD swag is displayed instead of sitting in a box collecting dust with the vast majority of the swag i get. I'm selective about the companies and products i'll promote by displaying stickers/magnets/etc. or wearing hats/t-shirts. You've earned it, Roger. And i'm happy to let others know that i'm pleased with your products and hopefully send some new business your way.

On the topic of the 6315 (and this may have already been addressed and i missed it), will you be offering an extended version that when pinned and welded will bring 14.5" barrels to a tax stamp free 16"?

[Duffy]

Thank you for your kind words [adore] You guys have ever been the support and encouragement a fledgling company needs in uncertain times, it's more than we deserve. We are keenly aware of the kindness shown us, and have always tried to show our gratitude with more than words in return, you guys rock.

The extended version of 6315 will depend on how well the A2 length version does. Being it's a rather conservative and stealthy design (in that it is based on A2 dimensions, and doesn't make fashion statements by being unnecessarily different), it may take some time to gather enough momentum to compel an extended 6315, but we have thought about it. I'd like to bring out the 1815 first, it uses 6315's body but is not a bird cage, should be easier to do than a 1.5" 6315.

And then there's the SSR project that's also being reworked a bit (based on I am Dan's input), and you guys are the reason it was dusted off from a finished design 2 years go and going into production soon [:D]

[Duffy]

The meticulous gentleman in TX practicing the two logos we'll have on the 6315. The Cygnus (without the circle) was chosen, the CW logo will not be an outline, but filled in, and of the same size as our logo (0.4 inch).

Don't pay attention to the bolt carrier on which he's practicing, it's not the 6315. 6315s are being black nitride coated, and will have a much smoother finish.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_9398_zpsao1u84vn.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_9398_zpsao1u84vn.jpg.html)

[RobertTheTexan]

I don't think the 1.8" length (0.04" longer than the A2) is going to be an issue, it wouldn't make sense to put the first baffle in front of the A2 to the point of touching it, it should have more than 0.04" clearance [:)]

The 6315 will be slightly lighter than the A2 due to its thinner wall and larger slots, though light weight wasn't an objective, just a result. I'm dying to test it to ascertain the three improvements we think the design will bring, good looks is decidedly not one of them, though I think we got that one dialed in.

Hole for pinning? Seeing that it's longer than a standard birdcage would make it an excellent candidate for pinning on one of my 14.5's I haven't built yet.

ETA: sorry Deadwing, I did not see your post. But reinforces the interest!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RobertTheTexan]

I saw the CW muzzle devices and thought that couldn't possibly be what they'd thread onto their barrels, it doesn't do anything [crazy]

But I realized that's not the point lol.

I don't like flashy things that call attention to themselves. I've refused to adorn our products with necessary fashion touches, probably to our detriment. With the 6315, it's as plain as can be, which some have already commented that it doesn't look very different from the A2 on which it's based, little do they know that's kind of the idea, 6315 is meant to be somewhat stealthy, and not yelling "look at me!" because that has no practical use.

This is me. Probably being prior service for so many years my brain defaults to design by purpose. Tactical design driven by propose. I find absolutely nothing boring about a rattle can painted sand and dirt brown SBR . Or I guess I can even appreciate a "black" rifle. Since black rifles matter.

I've got a couple of builds lined up that are brake-less meaning I haven't decided what brake/can to run. so I'll be happy to pick one up and give it a ho. Well not a Ho, but a go. Rifles and Ho's... Nice


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Duffy]

Robert, it's a tiny bit longer, not long enough to make a 14.5" barrel non-NFA. An extended version is possible, we have to wait till some priority projects get done first, like the 308 spec ABC/R v2, by then we'll have time to evaluate the extended 6315 [BD]

[RobertTheTexan]

Robert, it's a tiny bit longer, not long enough to make a 14.5" barrel non-NFA. An extended version is always possible, we have to wait till some priority projects get done first, like the 308 spec ABC/R v2 [BD]

Roger that. When you complete they ABC/R for the 308 I will be one of the first to pick one up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pyzik]

Roger that. When you complete they ABC/R for the 308 I will be one of the first to pick one up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Guess that means I have to settle for second. :(

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Tyrannosaur]

I'll be the 3rd

[schambers]

i call fourth!

[Duffy]

When ABC/R v2 comes around next week, I'm going to see how it works on a 308 receiver. The thinner and tapered upper paddle should be enough to clear the upper receiver, but might not clear KAC/LMT receivers which I don't have :(

[Slippers]

When ABC/R v2 comes around next week, I'm going to see how it works on a 308 receiver. The thinner and tapered upper paddle should be enough to clear the upper receiver, but might not clear KAC/LMT receivers which I don't have :(

No MWS? For shame. :)

[Duffy]

We'll have to redesign one for SR25 and MWS receivers. The 308 spec ABC/R v2 was designed for LR308 and non-mil 308 receivers, we'll modify one for these, the upper paddle might have to be modeled after the original round oval shape to fit into the cutout on the upper receiver.

[Duffy]

Precision Armament Accu-Washer ordered and received, 6315s came back from black nitride coating and are now being engraved with either the Cygnus or CW logo.

The logo is smaller than 0.4 in diameter. The outlined logo (vs filled in) is subdued and because it's on the bottom, one will have to look for it to find it, we're happy with the result :P

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/6315%20logo_zpshi8e3a9r.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/6315%20logo_zpshi8e3a9r.jpg.html)

[fledge]

Love it.

[GOST]

Looks great Roger! Is there any chance for a limited edition with laser etched Cygnus poop on it?

[Deadwing]

That look great, Roger.

[RobertTheTexan]

When ABC/R v2 comes around next week, I'm going to see how it works on a 308 receiver. The thinner and tapered upper paddle should be enough to clear the upper receiver, but might not clear KAC/LMT receivers which I don't have :(

Duff,
No need to fret yourself over what LR-308 receiver to use, I have a freshly minted build that is primed and ready for some Forward Contol love and abuse! Less than 200 rounds and sure to go bang when Timney is squeeeeezed. Lol
http://www.pic4ever.com/images/clap.gif
Ok somebody pony up their SR25 ;-)

[Duffy]

Cygnus poop? lol [BD]

We can do a run for WEVO if you send me the files :P If they're not all engraved already, we might be able to do a few last minute, but more likely it'll have to wait till the next run.

[SINNER]

When ABC/R v2 comes around next week, I'm going to see how it works on a 308 receiver. The thinner and tapered upper paddle should be enough to clear the upper receiver, but might not clear KAC/LMT receivers which I don't have :(

Need 10 of those to start. Lol

As to the SR-25 I would consider test fitting one if you need it.

[GOST]

PM me the email you want the file sent to Roger. What format do you want the file in? Could probably do a group buy.

[Duffy]

6315 CW turned out pretty well [:D]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_9531_zps6cwwasfk.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_9531_zps6cwwasfk.jpg.html)

[RobertTheTexan]

6315 CW turned out pretty well [:D]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_9531_zps6cwwasfk.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_9531_zps6cwwasfk.jpg.html)

That's badass.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GOST]

3152

[Dstrbdmedic167]

3152

I like it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Duffy]

Alas, all 6315s have been engraved. We can do WEVO logo on 1815 when it comes out :P

[RobertTheTexan]

Every time I look at one of these I see a new rifle. You guys definitely need to get a .308 version public. Otherwise I'm going to have to open my own gun store.
:jester:


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[Cotton68spc]

Freakin awesome congrats on the success Duffy


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[Duffy]

308 version is slightly different, in that the BFA will not fit (nor do we want it to fit a .223 spec BFA) due to the larger barrel diameter, and exit hole is larger, other dimensions are unchanged. It should be pretty easy to do, but we need to see how the 223 spec 6315 does in the market first [BD]

[Duffy]

6315 and 6315CW (for Cola Warriors) now shipping :P http://forwardcontrolsdesign.com/6315-Flash-Suppressor-Compensator_p_76.html

The Cygnus logo is quite subdued and not easy to see (didn't want or need it to be, we're not selling a logo here), I think it's tastefully done.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_2347_zps3hgfc5od.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_2347_zps3hgfc5od.jpg.html)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/6315fc_zpsfxrnvec3.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/6315fc_zpsfxrnvec3.jpg.html)

[mustangfreek]

3152

Thumbs up!!

[Pyzik]

6315 and 6315CW (for Cola Warriors) now shipping :P http://forwardcontrolsdesign.com/6315-Flash-Suppressor-Compensator_p_76.html

The Cygnus logo is quite subdued and not easy to see (didn't want or need it to be, we're not selling a logo here), I think it's tastefully done.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_2347_zps3hgfc5od.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_2347_zps3hgfc5od.jpg.html)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/6315fc_zpsfxrnvec3.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/6315fc_zpsfxrnvec3.jpg.html)

That looks great. I like your logo and here, I think it looks good.

[Duffy]

The constellation looks like bones of the swan, totally unintentional, but that's how the constellation looks with the Cygnus outline [BD]

The 6315 and the subdued logo looks kind of cool once it's mounted on a barrel, I'll take a pic later today. It's sort of there to display the company brand, and sort of not there because it's hard to see unless you know where to look (intentional).

[Deadwing]

The finished product looks fantastic, Roger! I just ordered a couple! I really dig the logo on this. And to think i was a skeptic... [BD]

[Duffy]

Thank you [adore]
Here's a pic of the 6315 installed. Looks even better on a camo painted rifle than I imagined :P

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/6315mounted_zpsk70dquey.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/6315mounted_zpsk70dquey.jpg.html)

[Duffy]

[:D]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/6315a2comp1_zpsqcxb8l9s.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/6315a2comp1_zpsqcxb8l9s.jpg.html)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/6315a2comp4_zpsetrjx3po.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/6315a2comp4_zpsetrjx3po.jpg.html)

[UWone77]

Thank you [adore]
Here's a pic of the 6315 installed. Looks even better on a camo painted rifle than I imagined :P

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/6315mounted_zpsk70dquey.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/6315mounted_zpsk70dquey.jpg.html)

I dig the logo. These will look great!

[Duffy]

These are the muzzle devices that partially formed the reference library when I researched for a muzzle device I'd like to own but nobody made, which eventually became the 6315 and, later, 1815 (to be released later this year) [BD]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/muzzledevices_zpspr0xslmz.png (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/muzzledevices_zpspr0xslmz.png.html)

[UWone77]

I'd love to see you license a QD mount design from any of the suppressor manufacturers.

I just want a simple A2 type device that's not almost 2.5" long like most mounts are. Not sure if that's even feasible, but Silencerco, Gemtech, AAC have obviously licensed their mounts before.

[Duffy]

1815 is the same length as 1815, but a longer flash suppressor would work better than a shorter one. I'd love to do suppressor mounts, but it takes a load of resources to make it happen, I need to be reasonably sure there's a market if we make one.

As it is, the 6315 is somewhat a gamble. It closely resembles the A2 it's based on, prompting more than a few to ask "why should I buy this over an A2", there's a lot more in the 6315 than the family resemblance it bears with the A2, looks have no way of conveying what it does better and why it costs 6 times more than the A2.

In my opinion, A2 is a successful design and a good one to base ours on, we made changes where we deemed helpful to make it better and kept the rest.

[UWone77]

If the pricing is on par with current offerings, I'd definitely be in for multiples.

ASR, 51T, Gemtech, I'll be waiting for your R&D [:D]

[SINNER]

I'd love to see you license a QD mount design from any of the suppressor manufacturers.

I just want a simple A2 type device that's not almost 2.5" long like most mounts are. Not sure if that's even feasible, but Silencerco, Gemtech, AAC have obviously licensed their mounts before.

This

5.56 and 7.62 ASR's please.

[Duffy]

Re: using it to make a 14.5" barrel 16 OAL, ADCO sells a KAC spacer https://www.adcofirearms.com/itemdetails.cfm?inventorynumber=2871 :P

[Duffy]

Not what it was designed for, but if you chop up a belt fed 308 barrel and thread it for 1/2 x 28, it works there too :P

I don't think I'd have he heart to do this to an expensive barrel, but some folks are good like that [crazy] [BD]
3267

[Slippers]

Not what it was designed for, but if you chop up a belt fed 308 barrel and thread it for 1/2 x 28, it works there too :P

I don't think I'd have he heart to do this to an expensive barrel, but some folks are good like that [crazy] [BD]
3267

If you have the money for a 21 and can feed it, then a $3000 barrel is not a big deal. Nice to know that it fits through the shroud, though. Hmmmm!

[Duffy]

I haven't looked at the cost of HK21 barrels lately, has it gone up that high? [wow]

[Slippers]

I haven't looked at the cost of an HK21 barrels lately, has it gone up that high? [wow]

The German ones are getting pretty rare. US made ones like MM cost $950 apiece.

Edit: Just noticed that the HK flash hiders on my 23E barrels have the same notches at 3/9 o'clock like the 6315.

[Duffy]

Damn! HK crack is even more expensive than when I got into it in early 2000s.

I figured one of you was gonna make the HK connection :P The wire cutter notches are inspired by HK flash suppressors. The width of 6315's notches is the same as that of an HK flash suppressor, but depth is different. A wire doesn't need to be completely inside the notches for the user to line it up.

The notches on the prototype were even shallower, we determined there was enough room to make them deeper without weakening the 3 and 9 o'clock ports, so we did.

Production 6315
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/6315a2comp4_zpsetrjx3po.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/6315a2comp4_zpsetrjx3po.jpg.html)

Prototype 6315
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/6315%202_zpslklx7ujs.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/6315%202_zpslklx7ujs.jpg.html)

[Duffy]

Video of A2 and 6315 comparison. No extra noise and concussion, the asymmetrical ports (3 and 9 o'clock ports are 25% smaller than the other 3 upward facing ports) perform as designed to reduce muzzle rise and swifter return to target.

I asked Rich why he shot faster with 6315 installed, the reply was he was able to get back on target faster, so he took the shots. With both A2 and 6315, he was taking aimed shots at a target, not random dirt and rocks.

A2

https://youtu.be/q--REeh9ePY

[Duffy]

6315


https://youtu.be/qAL0TUJ-Q2w

Other experienced shooters have confirmed 6315's swift back to target characteristic. It's difficult to put a number on it, the genera consensus is 20 to 25% reduction in muzzle rise. This improvement doesn't come at the expense of increased flash signature, noise and concussion. I'd be satisfied with 10 to 15%, being we want to stay in the confines of the A2's established dimensions, 20 to 25% is more than we expected.

My own experience and conclusions of 6315's performance may be tainted and biased, and are therefor excluded from the tests. I'm pleased with the assessment and results shared and verified by my peers ;)

[Duffy]

6315 now has a new moniker, Super A2. Those that have used it reported its effectiveness as a comp (while 6315 is not a pure comp).

The latest review from a user made us happy "The 6315 is much more effective than I expected it to be. My first few shots with it felt much more comp-like than merely flash hider-like..."

The 6315 does so without sacrificing its flash signature suppression abilities, and without creating any more noise and concussion than an A2 ;)

[UWone77]

Roger, I honestly don't see 20-25% from the video. I guess I'll need to get one to try out for myself. [:D]

The name change is a good idea. 6315 doesn't really tell the consumer what it is and is quickly forgotten.

[Duffy]

It's very difficult to see 20 to 25% quicker return to target in videos, even in high speed camera footage. Most are used to seeing A2 vs. a comp or brake, the difference there is much easier to pick up.

[Deadwing]

"Super A2" sounds like something Geissele would make. It is descriptive and catchy, though. Something like FH/C (Flash Hider/Compensator) would better match the naming convention for your products.

[din]

I like 6315 better. Harumph.

[Duffy]

It's called 6315 still, Super A2 is a nickname. Geissele uses Super in front of everything, it kind of loses its meaning there.

[fledge]

I think Geissele's using "super" is goofy for such a reputable company. But if you're at that level, you can do what you want.

Super A2 works for me and have one on my wish list.

I can't keep all your other product names straight though. And all my rifles have them. It's the "Forward Controls Bolt Catch with lines or dimples" and "Forward Controls Forward Assist". That's how my brain works.

[Duffy]

6315 and later, 1815 and 6310, probably will be the only products with numeric instead of alphabetic names. I haven't thought of a name for 6315 if we had stuck to our naming convention. IA2 (Improved A2) or EA2 (enhanced A2) come to mind, but I try not to use E (enhanced), it's overused, it only appears on the EMR family once, or is it three times (EMR, EMR-C, EMR-A) [BD]

[Deadwing]

I love Geissele's stuff, but the super this and super that is a bit much. If they built superchargers, i'd be willing to bet they'd market them as Super Superchargers.

Carry on, Roger. [BD] I really dig my 6315s. I haven't had the chance to put any rounds down range with one yet, but i appreciate the upgrade to my uppers.

[Duffy]

You should install it and shoot it, I know there is skepticism on the 20 to 25% in muzzle rise reduction claim, modest as I believe the claim to be.

6315 hasn't gone out to many reviewers, as I've been waiting for the EMR-A to show up before sending them both. Highjak86 just received his ahead of the EMR-A. This week, both will go out to reviewers.

[GOST]

I'd call it the A2.1

[Duffy]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/MK8_5351_zpsjvaljbfg.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/MK8_5351_zpsjvaljbfg.jpg.html)

[Duffy]

Shot some video footage yesterday, 6315's compensator performance can be seen best in bursts or rapid fire.

https://youtu.be/mR00fQugd-A

[UWone77]

Kinda hard to tell Roger, since the shooter on the left has his gun canted upwards a bit.

[Pyzik]

Shot some video footage yesterday, 6315's compensator performance can be seen best in bursts or rapid fire.

https://youtu.be/mR00fQugd-A

That looks like a whole lot more improvement than I thought initially.

[Duffy]

The shooter is new to ARs and firearms in general, and he uses a lot of comps on his ARs. The effect of the muzzle device is more noticeable with a new shooter than someone with more experience, specifically, burst/auto and rapid fire experience.


This footage is of an experienced shooter with the same test setup. The extent of muzzle rise is less pronounced.

https://youtu.be/D7VI2JFdbeE

[Duffy]

Geared Mind recently did a review of the 6315, and it confirmed what we suspected, that though the compensator improvement is there for every round fired, its effectiveness is more easily perceived and captured in rapid fire.


https://youtu.be/2PE4eonv39s

[Slippers]

The shooter is new to ARs and firearms in general, and he uses a lot of comps on his ARs. The effect of the muzzle device is more noticeable with a new shooter than someone with more experience, specifically, burst/auto and rapid fire experience.


This footage is of an experienced shooter with the same test setup. The extent of muzzle rise is less pronounced.
https://youtu.be/D7VI2JFdbeE

This is a minor observation, but his front hand is different between each clip. Left video has thumb on the side, right video has thumb around the vfg. Something like that can make a big difference in how much the gun rises. As does anticipation, stock placement, cheek weld, etc.

Unless you remove the human element, there are too many variables to make a definitive comparison, especially when the compensation difference isn't that big (based on what you've said in the past about the design).

[Duffy]

If anything, where his thumb is on the side of the receiver should have better control than when it's wrapped around the grip :P

The compensation improvement is not easy to capture on video, certainly not as visible as a straight comp or brake vs. a straight flash suppressor. I don't think we can remove the human element, that variable will exist along with the shooter's equipment, we can't control either. We've been able to consistently demonstrate the 6315's ability to dampen muzzle rise without causing more flash, noise and concussion, given these variables.

[Slippers]

If anything, where his thumb is on the side of the receiver should have better control than when it's wrapped around the grip :P

The compensation improvement is not easy to capture on video, certainly not as visible as a straight comp or brake vs. a straight flash suppressor. I don't think we can remove the human element, that variable will exist along with the shooter's equipment, we can't control either. We've been able to consistently demonstrate the 6315's ability to dampen muzzle rise without causing more flash, noise and concussion, given these variables.

Roger, my comments were (and are) 100% meant with constructive intent. I didn't say the 6315 doesn't work or isn't better than an A2.

Do you follow precision rifle blog? Cal is a big data collection guy, and sticks to removing variables so components like muzzle brakes can be easily compared. For instance, this is the test setup for recording recoil force: http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/07/01/muzzle-brakes-recoil-primer-test-equipment-rifles/.

I'm not saying you need to go do something that time intensive, that would be insane. A little data wouldn't hurt, though.

[Duffy]

Will, I understand, and didn't take your comments negatively ;) You know me, I welcome all comments and suggestions. Sorry if you thought I was defensive.

What you said about the human element being a variable, it is true. That group of variables are accepted in the tests, so we keep other elements as consistent as possible, including ammo and the test AR. A shooter's level of knowledge and proficiency, stance and the way the test weapon is handled/held, when the last time he shot burst/rapid fire, how well he controls not his own weapon, but the test weapon, etc will vary as 6315 customers/users.

Being 6315 is a comp / flash suppressor, recoil impulse isn't what it aims to mitigate, the same brake tests probably won't work for 6315. Data would be great, a rig could be built to have a camera fixed to a magnified optic to measure how high the reticle jumps. My suspicion is given our experience and difficulty in capturing it with the camera to the side, a scope view video would be similarly difficult to gauge.

So far, given the human element variable, and 6315 being the constant, 6315 has consistently shown the 25% 3 and 9 o'clock ports function as designed, to decrease muzzle rise without the flash, noise, and concussion penalty.