EMR-A

[Duffy]

NM

[din]

Tease.

[Duffy]

We'll release more hard data to support the use of the included, custom made compression spring, at the same time we'll be able to actually post pics and features. There's a lot to digest, it occurred to me we shouldn't do this in piecemeal [BD]

[din]

You're killing me, smalls.

[Duffy]

As EMR-A is finishing up last minutes developments, we can share some of its features and attributes:

EMR-A pivots on the receiver (it wasn't designed to go on safe queens)
Custom made spring included (but not required)
Low profile levers
Will not be compatible with battery assist device levers (was not a consideration)
Optional bundling with EMR (through hole) and EMR-C (blind hole) mag release buttons.

We took into account of force amplification afforded by the lever, and this alone explains the lever choices and inclusion of custom made spring.

We will firm up the spring rate this weekend.

Pics to follow when the last minute developments are complete, I'm sure you don't want to see hacked up prototypes :P

[Duffy]

Update on spring rate: the new custom made bolt catch spring is 60% stronger. Made specifically for Forward Controls and the EMR-A, it'll be an optional add-on for the EMR and EMR-C as well.

[Pyzik]

Aaaaaaand following

[Duffy]

Still contemplating whether we should offer the springs separately. I'd like to, but shipping is a pain. Maybe a package of 5 springs with shipping included to make it easy.

The extra spring rate spring is helpful in many situations. With armor and pouches, the AR is less likely to accidentally drop its magazine, whether you're a right hand shooter with an ambi mag catch installed, or a left hand shooter with the standard mag release button.

Those with the extended mag release buttons will benefit from an extra power mag catch spring as well. The force amplification afforded by the lever makes the mag release button easier to press and should be countered, the factory mag catch spring is rather soft as it is.

[GOST]

This thread with no pics is like being a Catholic Priest with no choirboy's.

[Duffy]

Here you go, the one posted last week but taken down [BD]

This lever is about the right length of the standard lever, but it's one that was modified from an extended lever to make the length, the production standard lever will look far nicer.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/emra_zpsr4crxpyi.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/emra_zpsr4crxpyi.jpg.html)

[Duffy]

Shown to the public for the first time at Cola Warrior West III, the EMR-A prototype with a modified standard lever.

NOTE: this is a prototype lever, converted to EMR-A's standard lever length from an extended lever, production standard lever will be slightly different and look better.

Photo courtesy of Daniel R of Cola Warrior :P
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/EMRAPrototype_zpsmf7z5osa.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/EMRAPrototype_zpsmf7z5osa.jpg.html)

Two lever options will be available: standard, and extended (0.09 longer). The extended lever will be easier to press due to its slightly longer length.

EMR-A will ship with a 60% extra spring rate mag catch spring. We played with 30% an 40% extra power springs, and came to the conclusion the standard mag catch spring is rather weak to begin with, 30% and 40% doesn't amount to much.

The 60% extra spring rate spring mitigates accidental / unintended mag drops, whether our EMR-A is installed and in use or not. The extra power mag catch spring will be an optional add-on item for EMR and EMR-C. Since EMR and EMR-C both have free shipping already included, the spring (if selected) ships with them for free as well.

As to making the springs available separately, I'm all for it, except it's not practical to list an item for $1 and spend $2.50 to ship it, so more likely the springs will come in a 5 pack.

[SINNER]

Looks good. I need a few.

[Tyrannosaur]

I'll take two and an ABC-R for a .308 please

[Jerry R]

Nice to see it relieved for KNS type anti-rotation devices. Well thought out, I like it.

[Evintos]

Will it be available as a bundle?

[Duffy]

Indeed it will be available with the EMR or EMR-C bundle in the same package, also with ABC/R (individual packages).

Jerry, the issue of KNS or anti-rotation screws / pins came up early on. As you can see on my test AR, I had the KNS anti-rotation pins removed, and it's been a few years. It was too much of a pain to install/remove them while I was testing trigger compatibility with selectors in my previous job.

I never put them back on even though the void leaves unpainted areas visible. Compatibility with KNS anti-rotation pins wasn't a consideration, as we deem anti-rotation pins unnecessary devices.

I believe EMR-A will work with it regardless. As posted elsewhere long ago, during the development of EMR and EMR-C, we discovered it only took 0.08" or so of mag catch travel for a typical mag to be released. You won't be able to press the EMR-A all the way, as the underside of the lever will bottom out against the pin/screw of the anti-rotation device, but pressing it all the way isn't required for the lever to lift the mag catch enough to drop the mag.

[Pyzik]

Looking good. Guess I know the solution to the 308 not being ambi. 😀

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Duffy]

For 308 ARs, if you use an AR15 spec mag catch (which the EMR-A is), make sure to use a taller profile mag release button like the EMR-C.

In the old days (not sure if it's still so) Armalite shipped AR10s with a mag catch that has a longer shaft, and the thread pitch is different (can't use an AR15 spec mag button).

AR15 mag catch shaft is shorter. While standard height buttons will work, it doesn't have enough lateral protrusion to be easily reached, EMR-C with its taller profile is right about perfect for 308 ARs with AR15 spec mag catches.

[Pyzik]

For 308 ARs, if you use an AR15 spec mag catch (which the EMR-A is), make sure to use a taller profile mag release button like the EMR-C.

In the old days (not sure if it's still so) Armalite shipped AR10s with a mag catch that has a longer shaft, and the thread pitch is different (can't use an AR15 spec mag button).

AR15 mag catch shaft is shorter. While standard height buttons will work, it doesn't have enough lateral protrusion to be easily reached, EMR-C with its taller profile is right about perfect for 308 ARs with AR15 spec mag catches.
Great to know. Went on my notes list. Thanks!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Duffy]

Here's a better pic of the EMR-A with the modified lever. Remember this lever was modified from the extended lever, the ratio between the V shaped serrations and straight serrations is jacked, production lever is 80% V shaped, 20% straight.

Photo courtesy of Daniel R of Cola Warrior :P
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/17548923_10158510272330714_630292907_o_zpsvczjnl8f .jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/17548923_10158510272330714_630292907_o_zpsvczjnl8f .jpg.html)

[Duffy]

60% extra spring rate mag catch springs are available in a package of 5 with free shipping [:D]

http://forwardcontrolsdesign.com/109lb-Mag-Catch-Spring_p_79.html

[UWone77]

Here's a better pic of the EMR-A with the modified lever. Remember this lever was modified from the extended lever, the ratio between the V shaped serrations and straight serrations is jacked, production lever is 80% V shaped, 20% straight.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/17548923_10158510272330714_630292907_o_zpsvczjnl8f .jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/17548923_10158510272330714_630292907_o_zpsvczjnl8f .jpg.html)

I like it! Great job Roger

[Duffy]

These pics have bee posted only here and in a closed group on FB for now, there are other pics we'll post soon, of the extended lever, for instance, when EMR-A is closer to being released :D

[Slippers]

Looks good. Gimme.

[Duffy]

Another piece of info: the roll pin is rated for 475lbs of shear strength. The EMR-A is modular, in that the lever can be removed to install a different lever by the user if desired.

Due care should be exercised though, I used my Leatherman multitool to hold the lever while grinding off 0.08" of length from the longer lever, and the teeth of the pliers made their marks on the raw 7075 aluminum lever. Production levers will be hard coat anodized and stronger.

[Stone]

So what's going on underneath, does it just pivot off the receiver? Is it based off of a fulcrum? Do you have clearance for the trigger pin or does it have to be removed to take a trigger out?

[schambers]

Sweet! looks forward to seeing how these turn out!

[Duffy]

The EMR-A will need to be removed to install the hammer. With the standard lever, the hammer pin is partially masked, while the extended lever will completely cover the pin hole.

The EMR-A pivots on the receiver, which gives us freedom with the lever design. It was originally designed when Norgon's patent was still in effect. It's expired since, but I'm not going to copy and use their IP even so.

[Tyrannosaur]

I believe this is where someone inserts the obligatory "take my money" meme...

[Duffy]

I've seen LWRC's ambi mag catch, it has a hole for the trigger pin. It isn't difficult to remove the EMR-A, the procedure is the same as removing any bolt catch, 8 counter clockwise turns and out comes the mag catch.

From the beginning, the design called for distancing the EMR-A's paddle from the bolt catch's lower paddle. For the EMR-A's paddle to not interfere with the trigger pin, it'd need to be located closer to, and below the bolt catch's lower paddle, the close proximity of these two control surfaces is precisely a flaw the design wants to avoid.

We wanted the EMR-A's paddle to closely mirror the location of the mag release button on the right side. But an exact mirror location would put the EMR-A's lever below the bolt catch's lower paddle, something we don't want. The solution we reached was to leave the area immediately below the bolt catch lower paddle clean and low profile, and serrate the paddle outside of it.

The paddle has a shallow V shape for 80% of the serrated length, the remaining 20% is straight. The shallow V shaped serrations conform to the finger's curvature, the straight portion provides a natural index, and additional purchase as pressure is applied to the paddle and the finger has a tendency to pull back a bit while it's curled.

The extended lever can illustrate this well. The previous pics show a shorter lever converted from this extended lever.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_2219_zpscbijbmv1.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_2219_zpscbijbmv1.jpg.html)

[Duffy]

EMR-A extended reach lever on top, standard lever on bottom. Extended reach lever is shy of 0.1 inch longer than the standard lever, just that 0.1 inch makes it easier to press.

I didn't take this pic, it's good enough from the shop floor [BD]
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/EMRAlevers_zpsdvtegqvc.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/EMRAlevers_zpsdvtegqvc.jpg.html)

Note the portion with the V shaped relief, this area is immediately below a bolt catch's lower paddle, and is of lower profile than the serrated portion of the EMR-A lever. We wanted the area below the bolt catch's lower paddle to be as low and clear of clutter as possible, this happens to be the same area that creates interference and makes a standard bolt catch's lower paddle difficult to access.


In this picture, we show the ABC/R v2 (with thinner and tapered upper paddle, and no lightening cuts) and the EMR-A. Notice the area below the ABC/R v2's lower paddle, compared to the original ABC/R with a Norgon Ambi-Catch.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/paddle%20clearance_zpsguaotk42.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/paddle%20clearance_zpsguaotk42.jpg.html)

[Pyzik]

Looking great!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Duffy]

Compatibility with Geissele's Maritime Bolt Catch:

EMR-A most likely will not work with Geissele's Maritime Bolt Catch, with its extended lower paddle, without taking off material from either.

Even when that's done, these two control surfaces will be very close to one another (MBC's lower paddle on top, EMR-A's lever immediately below), it's not a good arrangement.

This remains true if we redesign (we're not) the EMR-A's lever to not overlap the MBC's lower paddle, these two surfaces will still be next to one another, with a sim gap in between. We never want control surfaces that closely placed together for obvious reasons.

EMR-A, like the rest of our products, works with milspec AR receivers and components, or receivers and components that don't differ drastically from TDP specs. MBC's larger and longer paddle puts it in the "drastically different" category.

[Duffy]

A better pic of the EMR-A standard and extended lever. There has been numerous requests for dimpled EMR-A paddles, we'll make the dimpled EMR-A paddles for the next production run and they will retain the AA (all angles) moniker. The dimple pattern will resemble the ABC/R-AA, with large and small dimples [:D]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/lcomps_zpsw76q3qm1.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/lcomps_zpsw76q3qm1.jpg.html)

[Joelski]

Need!

[cjd3]

Looks like I need to start budgeting...

[Duffy]

Remember to use your WEVO discount code [:D]
EMR-A is priced below some competition, and above others, it's middle ground in terms of MSRP. We should be retailing it for close to $90, and it can rightfully compete with Norgon's Ambi-catch, but we don't want to price it out of reach, and make it a hard decision for folks that want it, so we'll make less margin. I've always said Forward Controls isn't all about money :P


Looks like I need to start budgeting...

[Joelski]

Any ETA on the EMR's? Specifically, the black ano'd ones.

[Duffy]

EMRs are back in stock, all anodized http://forwardcontrolsdesign.com/EMR_p_20.html

;)

[Duffy]

Top: standard lever. Bottom: extended lever. The pic's perspective makes the EMR-A with extended lever larger, the extended reach lever is 0.09" longer, but not taller.

Availability: May 19. Back order has been enabled http://forwardcontrolsdesign.com/EMR-A_p_78.html

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_9702_zpsgpchrwuk.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_9702_zpsgpchrwuk.jpg.html)

[Duffy]

EMR-A is now shipping :P http://forwardcontrolsdesign.com/EMR-A_p_78.html

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_2451_zpst7sa4jb7.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_2451_zpst7sa4jb7.jpg.html)

[schambers]

Just ordered one

[Duffy]

Thank you, order has been shipped with something extra for you :P

[UWone77]

Very well done! I may have to integrate one of these into the next AR build.

[Duffy]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/MK8_5358_zpsox6dd7jc.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/MK8_5358_zpsox6dd7jc.jpg.html)

[Pyzik]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/MK8_5358_zpsox6dd7jc.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/MK8_5358_zpsox6dd7jc.jpg.html)
Looking good

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Duffy]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/emralance_zps5s9lecle.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/emralance_zps5s9lecle.jpg.html)

:P

[UWone77]

Damn, that looks great on the KAC lower. I might have to do the same.

[Duffy]

Folks thought it was a KAC part lol. [BD]

[Duffy]

Military morons EMR-A review :P

http://www.militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.access5.html#emr

I've known MM for a long time, as you read he mentioned my former partner George at BAD and me in the same sentence. When I was looking at improving the Ambi-Catch, it must have been 2013 or 2012.

EMR-A's design dates back to 2014, and didn't change drastically after Norgon's patent expired. The patent expiration wasn't news to me, Robert's patent expiration date is in the patent itself. As MM said, we continued working on our own after that.

We didn't copy the Ambi-catch out of respect for his IP, as a designer, I owe fellow designers that much. On a practical side, we were able to have far more freedom with the length and shape of the lever with the externally pivoting design, Norgon's pivoting on the catch design would have restricted it.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/EMR-Atext_zpszsybgem2.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/EMR-Atext_zpszsybgem2.jpg.html)

[aamp84]

Do you have plans for a dimpled version? If so, do you have a time frame for when to expect it? Sorry if this was already asked.

[Duffy]

Dimpled version has been drawn up, but won't make it to production till the next batch probably later this year [BD]

We won't be making too many EMR-As with dimpled paddle, probably will be in the 1 to 10 ratio (1 dimpled for every 10 serrated).

[UWone77]

3682

[Duffy]

Thank you Richard! How do you like it? [:D]

[UWone77]

Thank you Richard! How do you like it? [:D]

So far just doing some mag release, mag changes, it feels very good. As a lefty, I always appreciate these ambi controls and how far they've come. Very nice addition to the ABC/R

[Duffy]

All this time, I had no idea you were a lefty, or forgot a long time ago [BD]

[Default.mp3]

Would I be correct in assuming that this is not compatible with the Boonie Packer Redi-Catch? Pretty sure it isn't, but figured I'd confirm.

[UWone77]

All this time, I had no idea you were a lefty, or forgot a long time ago [BD]

This is why I've always appreciated the FCD stuff! Keep the designs coming!

[SINNER]

Backwards fool

[GOST]

15% Off Blemished/Seconds

http://forwardcontrolsdesign.com/BlemishedSeconds_c_22.html

[Duffy]

Thanks Gost! Normal discount codes will work with these discounted units :P

[Duffy]

I wonder how many will lift their hand to look at their finger pad, just to make double check? [:D]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/angled%20paddle1_zpsn39ztojg.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/angled%20paddle1_zpsn39ztojg.jpg.html)

[Duffy]

EMR-A will have some changes later this year [:D]

No teases this time, as we're close to production and release.

1. Extended lever will be discontinued. We still have plenty on hand to last us till next year, but unless there is demand, no additional extended levers will be produced.
2. Standard lever will be supplanted with the new EMR-A, AA (all angles) lever. Standard lever is serrated, AA lever is dimpled, they're the same length.
3. EMR-A, LP option will be available for both lever options. LP stands for low profile, but it actually refers to the RIGHT side.

EMR-A, AA lever:
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/EMR-A%20AA_zpslfj4c3xw.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/EMR-A%20AA_zpslfj4c3xw.jpg.html)

[Duffy]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/AAs_zpspbzc5ulv.png (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/AAs_zpspbzc5ulv.png.html)

Hell of a time to be running out of ABC/R-AA [bash]

Both serrated and dimpled ABC/R v2 will be in stock next month [BD]

[Duffy]

New for 2018.

The new LP (low profile) mag catch option reduces the mag catch shaft by a full revolution, or 0.03. The LP option on the EMR-A (not available for extended length lever EMR-A) reduces the installed height of the right hand mag release button, resulting in the right side mag release button that sits below the mag release fence. This is our latest step to mitigate accidental / unintended mag drop risks.

Note the LP option for EMR-A will not reduce the EMR-C's installed height on an AR15/M16 to the point where EMR-C doesn't constitute accidental / unintended mag drop risks. The LP option aims to reduce the installed height of a TDP spec mag release button (such as our EMR), it isn't a solution for extended mag releases, the installed height of which would require a drastically shorter shaft to offset. EMR-C is meant for 7.62mm ARs, even though it works on an AR15 / M16, we suggest it be relegated to 7.62mm ARs and gaming ARs, not for defense and duty.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/EMRALP_zpsnan1h0ur.png (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/EMRALP_zpsnan1h0ur.png.html)

[UWone77]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/AAs_zpspbzc5ulv.png (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/AAs_zpspbzc5ulv.png.html)

Hell of a time to be running out of ABC/R-AA [bash]

Both serrated and dimpled ABC/R v2 will be in stock next month [BD]

This is all kinds of good looking. I really like the mag release, very ergonomic and intuitive.

[SINNER]

New for 2018.

The new LP (low profile) mag catch option reduces the mag catch shaft by a full revolution, or 0.03. The LP option on the EMR-A (not available for extended length lever EMR-A) reduces the installed height of the right hand mag release button, resulting in the right side mag release button that sits below the mag release fence. This is our latest step to mitigate accidental / unintended mag drop risks.

Note the LP option for EMR-A will not reduce the EMR-C's installed height on an AR15/M16 to the point where EMR-C doesn't constitute accidental / unintended mag drop risks. The LP option aims to reduce the installed height of a TDP spec mag release button (such as our EMR), it isn't a solution for extended mag releases, the installed height of which would require a drastically shorter shaft to offset. EMR-C is meant for 7.62mm ARs, even though it works on an AR15 / M16, we suggest it be relegated to 7.62mm ARs and gaming ARs, not for defense and duty.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/EMRALP_zpsnan1h0ur.png (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/EMRALP_zpsnan1h0ur.png.html)

Nice option to have the shorter shaft length. I usually knock a few hundredths off on the belt grinder to get the mag release height exactly where I want it.

[Duffy]

Thank you :)

We've moved EMR-C to the AR10 section on our site. It seems a lot of folks like the looks of the EMR-C, though we go out of our way to discourage its use on a 223 AR receiver due to its installed height.

[PJD642]

Nice option to have the shorter shaft length. I usually knock a few hundredths off on the belt grinder to get the mag release height exactly where I want it.

Pretty high tech...I've just been using a piece of sandpaper and a cold-blue pen afterwards. Glad to see I'm not too far out in left field wanting a slightly recessed mag release.

[Duffy]

Haha not at all. It is surprising that given all the tools of sharing and communicating, common sense approaches like this don't make it out more.

I thought we must be in the minority to think these extended mag releases are a terribly unbalanced solution, while it addresses one need, it creates a host of problems that didn't exist before.

The LP option for EMR-A can't fix the flaws of designs that place the mag button surface well above the mag release fence and render the fence useless in the process. It is meant to reduce the installed height of a TDP spec mag release button so it sits below the fence, in conjunction with a heavier mag catch spring, mitigate accidental / unintended mag drop risks.