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View Full Version : Magpul's PDR: Gone, but not forgotten ...



Army Chief
22 March 2009, 23:50
There are relatively few otherwise unobtainable things in life that I really wish for. An Aston Martin might make the list, but otherwise I'm a reasonably content kind of guy; that said, there is one thing that has whet my appetite since the first moment that I saw the concept a year or two ago: Magpul's PDR.


175

For those who may not be familiar with this little R&D blaster, think FN P90, only in a more battleworthy (5.56mm x 45mm) caliber. While this would seem to be the pinnacle of emerging weapons tech, no production decision was ever announced, and it would appear that the PDR simply disappeared into the back shops at Boulder. Granted, the P90 is a mature design that is already in production, but who wants to be tied to a largely unobtainable and proprietary cartridge?

In any event, as a study in emerging weapons tech and design, perhaps it might be worthwhile to go back and see what we missed with the non-emergence of the PDR. Here are a few resources to get you back up to speed:

PDR Tech Sheet from Magpul.com (http://www.magpul.com/pdfs/PDRtech_PR.pdf)

PDR-related videos on YouTube (http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=magpul+pdr&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=WizHSb6ZPIOQsAaYxPnQCw&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&resnum=8&ct=title#)

Defense Review PDR Article (http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1011)

Wikipedia Stub Article on the PDR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magpul_PDR)

Ah, what might have been. It's hard to imagine a more perfect SBR. Sure, this thing probably would have kicked like a mule, forced you to re-learn everything that you ever knew about manipulations, and demanded a very careful manual of arms, but ... just consider the possibilities.

Perhaps this concept will enjoy some kind of reemergence in time, but as an example of forward-thinking design and next-generation ergodynamics, I find a lot here to like.

AC

Stickman
22 March 2009, 23:57
I handled it a few years back, its got a great feel to it.

Army Chief
23 March 2009, 00:04
Stick,

Did they just build the one mockup, or was there some attempt to produce a functional prototype as well? I'm a bit sketchy on the details.

AC

Army Chief
29 March 2009, 04:37
... and apparently, I am not alone in that. LOL

AC

Stickman
29 March 2009, 09:10
No comment on this for right now. I'm not 100% sure on an answer, and don't want to spout off internet BS.

I'm also not sure what options are being explored with the PDR. I can think of a few immediate applications, but there is a priority order to things.

Army Chief
29 March 2009, 10:10
Stick,

Your response would seem to suggest that the PDR may simply be an idea whose time has not yet come, as opposed to a design project which has run its course.

Here's hoping that they keep this particular iron in the fires ... I would buy three, no matter what they asked for them.

AC

Ryo
4 April 2009, 23:37
Well I know mid last year Drake said it was still on the table.. don't know if it is still, but I would think so since this probably would have a large audience. I know I would get in line to buy it, assuming it comes in a legal length 16" barrel. [BD]

Hojutsu
5 April 2009, 19:08
Ya gotta know I would be in for at least one

Army Chief
6 April 2009, 00:46
It occurs to me that, even if they went with a non-SBR application for Class 1 fielding, this would still be an extremely compact rifle. An additional 3.5" really wouldn't be that objectionable, and it might actually be a good thing in terms of making the blast a bit more manageable. Better yet, a permanently-attached Krink would probably solve both problems at once. I just see this system as having far too much promise to sit in the Boulder back shops indefinitely.

AC

TehLlama
8 April 2009, 10:12
A better question: is this a system that we'd still be interested in if MagPul passed the development torch partially to another firm?

I know the way the ACR has drawn tremendous amounts of ire unjustified or justified, but if that's the only way we'd see a PDR in the near future, would you be as excited?

Incidentally, it seems inherently compatible with the previous AWB, so barring any extreme legislative stupidity (e.g. banning of magazine fed centerfired anything) this would still be quite available.


I would also submit that MagPul would incur tremendous amounts of soiled udergarments if they merely released a picture of a PDR mockup with MBUS and an EMag hanging out the bottom.

Army Chief
8 April 2009, 11:19
An excellent point to ponder.

I don't know anyone who followed the development of the Masada that wasn't taken aback by the Bushmaster production decision. I gave -- and continue to give -- Magpul management the benefit of the doubt on this decision, but to suggest that it hasn't led to almost universal disappointment would be a pretty transparent attempt at deception. I'll not go down the well-worn path of lamenting how Bushmaster seems to have wasted a commercial fielding opportunity in hopes of meeting with success in yet another military trial, but in some ways this runs so contrary to logic as to make me wonder if perhaps the weapon itself just wasn't ready for full-scale production.

Is this commentary at all relevant to the PDR's prospects? I'm sure that I do not know. What I do know is that the concept is sufficiently novel as to warrant serious interest even if the journey to production is a difficult one. It is unfortunate that Magpul cannot be the one bringing these concepts to market, but it would take an almost unbelievably incompetent production partner to sour my interest in the PDR. I don't think that Magpul is capable of that kind of misstep, and I'm quite certain that they've learned a great deal from the ACR saga. Hope springs eternal, but to my mind, this is an easy call, as the PDR concept is simply too strong to leave on the drawing board.

AC

Army Chief
8 April 2009, 11:37
Incidentally, it seems inherently compatible with the previous AWB, so barring any extreme legislative stupidity (e.g. banning of magazine fed centerfired anything) this would still be quite available.

I hadn't even considered this. Granted, the law could always change in a subsequent revision, but you're entirely correct: the PDR-C flies pretty low under the "evil features" radar: no pistol grip, no conventional flash suppressor, no bayonet lug, no collapsible stock, etc.

Interesting!

AC

Army Chief
10 April 2009, 23:40
On closer inspection, it would appear that the prototype PDR is equipped with the little-known Levang Linear Compensator. Most of us are more immediately familiar with the Noveske KX3, but it might be interesting to see the two units compared side-by-side in a future review. The design principles certainly differ, but they perform a very similar function for these SBR-specific applications. This is surely fodder for a new thread, but if you've got experience with the Levang unit, your thoughts and impressions -- or even a user review -- would be most welcome.

AC

Ryo
11 April 2009, 01:11
I was doing a search and finally found one comment about the owner having both the Levang Linear Compensator and the Noveske KX3. He said he liked both of them, but he felt the KX3 directed the blast better. Of course the KX3 cost $100 more.

I would be interested finding out more as well.

Keebsley
11 April 2009, 16:00
I've used the Levang comp and I can say that it works just as well as the Noveske KX3. For 1/5 the price of a KX3, it's definitely worth while. Not to take away from the KX3 since Noveske makes killer stuff but I'm currently trying to find a levang for my SBR and they are nonexistant.

Ryo
11 April 2009, 16:27
The DPMS Levang Compensator is suppose to be in stock at MidwayUSA 4/21.. That's coming up soon.

crosse
25 December 2009, 21:33
dont want to revive a dead thread, but in the 6+ months has there been any developments?

i ended up buying a msar stg556 b/c the bullpup bug bit me. but still would love to have a pdr with a 16" barrel.

Army Chief
26 December 2009, 08:48
Given the nature of the topic, I'm not sure that I will ever consider this a "dead thread," so no worries there. That said, I'm not sure that there is really anything new to know.

The best we can determine, the PDR remains a semi-active project in Magpul's back shops. This leads me to believe that they are continuing to explore various aspects of the concept as they have time and opportunity, but none of this has translated into an active manufacturing scheme -- much less anything that might resemble a commercial/civil dsitribution plan. Naturally, in the absence of these two components, we shouldn't be expecting to hear much more from Magpul directly.

It would be tempting to observe that the Masada/ACR started in much the same way, and we're finally on the verge of seeing that released as a commercial product, but we would do well to remember that (a) this has been a very long road, and (b) the market for the Masada was always much easier to define, especially when there were/are hopes of participation in Army trials. The PDR is much more of a niche product in that regard, notwithstanding its incredible potential.

For now, this remains a very good idea with strong prospects, but no immediate path to production.

AC

Army Chief
19 January 2010, 17:58
Any chance the PDW will be back for SHOT 2010 under the counter someplace?

AC

rugbymike
20 January 2010, 15:59
I hope so, wasn't mentioned in the two youtube videos of magpuls for the 2010 shot show.

Michael
12 February 2010, 22:08
Does anyone have the PDF saved? It seems that it is no longer on the Magpul site after the update...Thanks.
-m

SDDuc996
12 February 2010, 23:31
PM sent Mike.

BlackHawk125
7 June 2010, 16:23
Recently discovered the Magpul PDR and love it, any new any info by any chance? And could I get that PDF if it's not too much trouble, thanks. Yay first post!

Optimus Prime
7 June 2010, 17:05
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=124&t=190760

Army Chief
7 June 2010, 20:00
I'm a Magpul proponent, so I don't wish to convey a contrary impression; that said, what we've seen to date would suggest that the PDR will remain a concept -- active or otherwise -- for an indefinite period of time, unless the prospect of some kind of agency contract spurs them to pursue a more active prototyping stage.

Even then, I'm not sure that they have the production capacity to take this on in-house, meaning that we could again be looking at some kind of third-party development program. This is pure conjecture on my part, but if past is prologue, Bushmaster/Remington would be an obvious contender -- and if so, I would have to guess that such a plan would have the military and law enforcement arm of Remington out pursuing trials and concepts, with little spillover to the NFA consumer market. The economic realities of staking a substantive R&D investment against the prospect of a few-hundred private buyers just fails to achieve anything approaching a level of parity.

In other words, as strongly as I would like to give Team Magpul the benefit of the doubt that the PDR may still be viable, I'm not holding my breath that any of us will be able to bring one home.

AC

crosse
11 January 2011, 16:54
dont want to revive a dead thread that was about keeping the hope alive for a project, but...anyone hear anything new?

[DRE4DNOUGHT]
29 March 2016, 09:36
just made an account to revive a dead thread, is there any news? i asked them if they would be willing to make one to order, no response yet...

Ryo
1 April 2016, 09:34
You realize they introduced the idea 10 years ago...

LOL on asking them to make 1. Don't expect an answer soon.

Joelski
1 April 2016, 10:07
If anybody perfects time travel, please pick me up a Masada, and an XM-8. Thanks!

UWone77
1 April 2016, 10:16
;129912']just made an account to revive a dead thread, is there any news? i asked them if they would be willing to make one to order, no response yet...

Magpul last I knew wasn't going into manufacturing firearms, otherwise they wouldn't have let Bushmaster jack up the Masada/ACR. Like it was mentioned earlier, asking them to make 1 of something that's not even a past production item. I wouldn't hold my breath. You might have better luck asking them to bring back the M93 stock. [:)]

MoxyDave
1 April 2016, 15:35
Personally I'd like to see them produce the FMG-9 they debuted at Shot Show some time ago. They clearly said they were never going to produce it, and with all our stupid US gun laws I could never legally own one, but I sure do love the concept.

At one time I had considered reverse-engineering it and gathered a ton of photos for research, but I decided not to get an FFL so sadly I couldn't go down that path.


http://youtu.be/enzlTEysYVU

wsaraceni
13 April 2016, 22:16
Magpul last I knew wasn't going into manufacturing firearms, otherwise they wouldn't have let Bushmaster jack up the Masada/ACR. Like it was mentioned earlier, asking them to make 1 of something that's not even a past production item. I wouldn't hold my breath. You might have better luck asking them to bring back the M93 stock. [:)]

That stock is crazy looking