Lesson Learned: 300 RUM vs AR500

[alamo5000]

I helped a buddy get his rifle zeroed and we worked up a load. He brought over a box of Norma 165 grain hunting rounds that he bought just to test fire the gun with.

Well, I learned that 3/8 inch AR500 plates are no match for this round. Damn.

Here is a picture of the back side of the plate.




On other notes we got him worked up a load using 210 grain Bergers and 91.1 grains of Retumbo that shot 5 shots and got a .25 MOA group at just over 100 yards. The 210 grain bullets wouldn't go through the plate but those 3,360 fps 165 grain bullets sure would.

I have two new plates on the way

Also today was my first time to ever shoot using any Night Force scope... damn! Those things are NICE! A while back he asked me what to get and I helped him pick things out that I would like. It's not often you get to help people spend their money. NightForce scope and a Sphur ISMS mount... Damn! I really want that stuff now!

[alamo5000]

I am still kind of in awe that a soft point hunting bullet would blast through that plate like it wasn't even there. The plate would barely move. Just a 'tink' then clean holes right through.

I am still kind of in awe over it.

With the loads that we worked up though he has at least a 1,600 yard gun. He could probably get to a mile in skilled hands.

[SINNER]

3/8” isn’t much for rifles. I’ve pierced plates at 300 with a 6.5 CM. Not all are true AR500 either. You certainly hear when they are going through with a can. Different sound altogether.

[alamo5000]

3/8” isn’t much for rifles. I’ve pierced plates at 300 with a 6.5 CM. Not all are true AR500 either. You certainly hear when they are going through with a can. Different sound altogether.

This exact plate has been shot with 5.56 and all kinds of variations of it and numerous calibers up to and including .300 WM. The .300 WM didn't even leave a dent on it.

Today the same gun on the same day with the same plate shooting 210gr Bergers didn't leave a scratch. Those 165 grain burners though...zip. Right on through, and on top of that they were soft point hunting bullets. Damn. Kinda crazy. I learned a lesson. This is my first time shooting through an AR500 plate (not soft steel).

Initially I thought, 'man I got ripped off!' but then I realized that I have been shooting that plate with all kinds of things up until today.

I bought two new 1/2 inch plates this evening. One will replace this one at 100 yards and I will hang the other at 200 yards.

[alamo5000]

3/8” isn’t much for rifles. I’ve pierced plates at 300 with a 6.5 CM. Not all are true AR500 either. You certainly hear when they are going through with a can. Different sound altogether.

I would be interested to know how you can tell "Officially" other than after it's too late (IE already bought). My experience today has taught me that the introduction of speed is a big deal. That extra 400fps burned a laser beam hole through me plate! LOL!

On other news though, that SPHUR mount... I EFFIN' LOVE that thing... and that Night Force scope... OMG. That's my first time with what I would consider top tier glass and holy crap man.

And just like that folks... money leaves the wallet...

[SINNER]

I have access to one of these . Hardness tester. Let’s just say from what I’ve seen I wouldn’t trust a armor plate from ANYONE not including a certificate proving the Steel was tested.



And those Nightforce are nice, but they are no Steiner or S&B.

[FortTom]

Wow! Impressive.

[alamo5000]

I have access to one of these . Hardness tester. Let’s just say from what I’ve seen I wouldn’t trust a armor plate from ANYONE not including a certificate proving the Steel was tested.



And those Nightforce are nice, but they are no Steiner or S&B.

This is the company I bought the plates from (the new ones).

What do you think? Do you think it's legit AR500?

https://www.ar500targetsolutions.com/

Also based on your experience will 1/2 inch withstand how much more vs 3/8?

It's a lesson learned for sure for me. Like I said the last plates stood up to everything from 5.56 through 300 Win Mag without even a scratch. That extra velocity though--even with a soft point hunting bullet just laser beamed right through it without even barely moving the plate.

Any ideas of when (velocity/weight) wise I should say 'nope' for plates 100-200 yards out? (In other words I don't want to have to be out buying more plates all the time)

As I said above--with the same gun but heavier bullets---(210 vs 165) it didn't even dent the plate much less pass through...

[alamo5000]

Wow! Impressive.

I can say that I certainly wasn't expecting that, especially out of a round nose soft point regular hunting bullet.

Whatever the magic combo is between weight and velocity vs AR500--- I exceeded those limits

Now I am curious as to what the velocity limits are for AR500... I wouldn't shoot those plates with a 5.7 because the speed I think would go straight through... I didn't even think about it blasting holes in my plate though since I've shot that exact plate with 300WM before without a problem.

What velocity of bullet(s) goes through AR500 targets? Too bad I don't have a budget and a YouTube channel to test all that out. LOL!

[terryna]

sub'd to this thread

[Jerry R]

I wouldn't shoot those plates with a 5.7 because the speed I think would go straight through...

GriffonSec has a 5.7 rifle and pistol. We shot my round AR500 8" at 50 yards - all it did was splash, not even a significant dent. Surprised us. The plate is (very) old and new steel is on the range. We were willing to sacrifice the round one. The 5.7 rounds were ball and not the steel core AP stuff that you are not supposed to have anyway.

[gatordev]

I can't provide any scientific evidence to prove your plates were not true AR-500 steel, Alamo. But I can tell you I've shot various rounds of ammo I should NOT shoot at steel at my legitimate AR500 steel and I've had no shoot-throughs. Dimples at the back, mostly just blowing the paint away, yes, but that's it. That includes 7n6 and 30.06 surplus. I get it doesn't have the velocity your round has, but I have a hard time believing your steel is exactly what it said it was.

[UWone77]

sub'd to this thread

IP address from Luxemborg eh?

[alamo5000]

I can't provide any scientific evidence to prove your plates were not true AR-500 steel, Alamo. But I can tell you I've shot various rounds of ammo I should NOT shoot at steel at my legitimate AR500 steel and I've had no shoot-throughs. Dimples at the back, mostly just blowing the paint away, yes, but that's it. That includes 7n6 and 30.06 surplus. I get it doesn't have the velocity your round has, but I have a hard time believing your steel is exactly what it said it was.

I emailed the manufacturer of the plate(s) and they said AR500 is rated for 3000 fps at 100 yards. I assume that would be at least a little conservative but not by much.

The first few rounds we were shooting were 165 grain and up around 3,400 fps.

I don't know if it is/was true AR500 either--- but my google fu all said that high velocity rounds will defeat AR500--- and that came from several different manufacturers-- not just a single source. In this case it was not only velocity but it was mass AND velocity. It was punched clean through with a 165 grain bonded bullet.

GriffonSec has a 5.7 rifle and pistol. We shot my round AR500 8" at 50 yards - all it did was splash, not even a significant dent. Surprised us. The plate is (very) old and new steel is on the range. We were willing to sacrifice the round one. The 5.7 rounds were ball and not the steel core AP stuff that you are not supposed to have anyway.

I am guessing it's not just speed alone. In the email I got though they specifically cited a 22-250 as one example and said that would shoot through the plates but those are up around or over 4000 fps.

A regular FMJ 5.56 round wouldn't even do anything to that exact plate mentioned above. I have shot it A LOT and nothing. And like I said too--- that exact plate--- hanging in that same spot has been shot with .22 LR, .223, a whole lot of 5.56, .308, 30.06, 300 WM and a few others all without fanfare. Some just rattle the plate around more but that's about it. All of those just knocked paint off and didn't even dent the plate.

Even using the 300 Remington Ultra Mag--- same gun---on the same day--- with the same plate--- with the 210 grain Berger bullets, it didn't even dent the plate. Those bullets just made a big splash and knocked off the paint but that was it. The velocity we were getting out of the 210 Berger loads was between 2950 and just shy of 3,000 fps. I could have banged away on that plate all day with those and no problem.

Knowing what all I have thrown at that plate over time--- it makes me think they really are AR-500. I just exceeded what AR500 is able to withstand.

[alamo5000]

If we really want to test this out-- I just had a thought... Once I hang my new plates up there I can try to cut the head off of the plate that is there and I can mail it to Sinner and he can tell us for sure with his fancy machine if it's actually AR500 or not...

Whatcha say about that Sinner? Once I hang the new ones up I will try to figure out how to cut a little square sample and you can test it for us. I am definitely curious to know if it's bona fide real stuff or not.