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  1. #1
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    Mildot Master - Anyone use it or similar?

    For some reason I am having a hell of a time with this mildot scope. I think I have it then it all falls apart. I think I'm over thinking it most of the time.
    MOA I'm fine with. Probably because that's what I grew up on and have used primarily.

    I found this while putting info together to build myself a cheat card to go with my rifle.

    Anyone use it or something similar?

    http://mildot.com/

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  2. #2
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    You can use the mildot master to help to range targets and make adjustments for slope. It's much easier and more accurate to use a rangefinder though. In either case you still need to know what your bullet drop is to dial in the mils.

    A FFP mil-mil scope is going to be the easiest system to work with. On a SFP mil scope you need to know at which magnification is 1 mil spacing.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeviantLogic View Post
    You can use the mildot master to help to range targets and make adjustments for slope. It's much easier and more accurate to use a rangefinder though. In either case you still need to know what your bullet drop is to dial in the mils.

    A FFP mil-mil scope is going to be the easiest system to work with. On a SFP mil scope you need to know at which magnification is 1 mil spacing.
    That's what everyone had been telling me. Mil/mil is where it's at but I'm struggling. I mainly plan on running two loads so drop won't be too bad

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    Last edited by Pyzik; 11 April 2018 at 19:46.
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  4. #4
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    I’ve considered buying a mil-mil optic to learn the system. All of my tactical optics are in moa. Which I have gotten pretty good with. It didn’t take long after buying my first FFP scope to decide I preferred it to SFP. It’s nice not having to run at a fixed power to get the full benefit of the reticle.

    I’d like to hear how it goes for you, because I’ve also been told mil-mil is the way to go.

  5. #5
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    Best advise I have is to shoot at targets of varying distances and play with it. Just make the adjustments as seen in the scope. If it's low by .6 MILS in the scope, dial up .6 MILS on the turret...doesn't matter if the distance is 50 yards or 500 yards. There's no need for calculations/conversions.

  6. #6
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    Shooter app and a range finder. It’s not the 1980’s anymore.

    Lol

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SINNER View Post
    Shooter app and a range finder. It’s not the 1980’s anymore.

    Lol
    Hahaha, I know. Slippers shared a good app if you know the distance. But I would love to learn how to range. (A range finder is on my list now)

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  8. #8
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    I use Ballistic AP for Ballistic calculator and drop table. Then I also use Stretlok Pro for better reticle detail. Both are good, both do different things. I used the data from a 100 yard target load, dialed in for 300 yards and was right on target. I don’t feel like mathing at the range.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyzik View Post
    For some reason I am having a hell of a time with this mildot scope. I think I have it then it all falls apart. I think I'm over thinking it most of the time.
    MOA I'm fine with. Probably because that's what I grew up on and have used primarily.

    I found this while putting info together to build myself a cheat card to go with my rifle.

    Anyone use it or something similar?
    First question I have is what caliber you have it on? Second question is what range(s) are your max shooting distances?

    Are you holding over the target or dialing up?

    I've considered giving MIL a go but I don't have the cash laying around to buy a scope to try and master it. My brain definitely thinks in MOA.

    It kind of irritates me that the scope manufacturers only have token MOA offerings. I see some of their offerings and I am like 'that would be great if it was in MOA'. That said I think I generally have the concept down of MIL but I've never tried a MIL optic of any kind so I am not really sure. It kind of irritates me that they seem to be force feeding MIL to everyone.

    Ranging things out is always the hardest part. If you have an unknown distance and an unknown target size that's pretty difficult unless you have done some homework before hand.

  10. #10
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    I use a couple of shooter apps. One is iSnipe. I got it back in 2010 when the market for such a thing was pretty limited, and I was fascinated with everything you could do with an iPhone 3GS.

    Still like doing it the old fashioned way. Just for the hell of it. I will often use a rangefinder to check myself.

  11. #11
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    I've used (and still pack) a mildot master. Very handy tool to know how to use, especially in enviornmental conditions that might cause you to want to double check what an electornic range finder is tealling you.

    A couple things to considder when using the mildot master and similar calculators:

    - They are not really intended to be used in a high stress or fluid enviornment. They are normally used when establishing sectors of fire (for lack of a better term) at an OP or fixed location, when you have time to range different objects and record their distances.
    - They are used to provide you with a best estimate for the distance of an object.
    - Its very usefull (maybe critical) to know the exact size or estimated size of the object you are looking at.
    - Its critical that you understand how to use your reticle to size an opbect in mils and/or moa (also something thats easy to do once you understand the concept).
    - You are likely overthinking the process.

    A brief guide to using the mildot master.

    1.) Measure and record the size of common objects. Stop signs, street lights, human torso, animal torso, common cars, etc. If you are in mountains, desert or forest, finding objects with a standardized size is difficult but its still possible. If you are on a range, use steel targets, ask if you can measure them if they are wierd sizes.
    2.) Go to your location.
    3.) When you arrive look over the area and start breaking it down into sections.
    4.) Try to find different land marks (objects) within each section.
    5.) Place the reticle of your optic on the opbect and determine your best estimate for its size in mils.
    6.) Now you know how many mils the object appears to be, and you know the actual size of the object because you measured it (or something similar to it) previously.
    7.) Use the left slider on the mildot master and align the target size with the mils size.
    8.) Now you should have you target distance for a given object.
    9.) Repeat the process until you have a good idea of where you are in relation to 200 meters, 300 meters, 400 meters, etc.
    10.) I would suggest ignoring the bullet drop bar on the right unless you have a custom one made for you load and gun. Instead refer to your DOPE for your range adjustments.
    11.) With all this information recorded, you are now able to spin your dials or ajust your hold as a target moves through your sector of fire.

    If your having trouble using the mildot master, its likely that you are having trouble with how to use the tool (which is admittedly not a very easy thing to do). Moving from mil to moa might not help you, as you would just be chaning the math and not the methodology.

    I won't get in to FFP v. SFP optics for this so hopefully you know why those optical designs will make a difference. If you don't let me know and I'll write another wall of text.

  12. #12
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    It may be easier to take an intro to precision rifle course that teaches ranging and the other techniques you’d like to learn. Teaching yourself it may sound like Greek but an instructor worth the cost could have you doing it in a short period of time

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    First question I have is what caliber you have it on? Second question is what range(s) are your max shooting distances?

    Are you holding over the target or dialing up?

    I've considered giving MIL a go but I don't have the cash laying around to buy a scope to try and master it. My brain definitely thinks in MOA.

    It kind of irritates me that the scope manufacturers only have token MOA offerings. I see some of their offerings and I am like 'that would be great if it was in MOA'. That said I think I generally have the concept down of MIL but I've never tried a MIL optic of any kind so I am not really sure. It kind of irritates me that they seem to be force feeding MIL to everyone.

    Ranging things out is always the hardest part. If you have an unknown distance and an unknown target size that's pretty difficult unless you have done some homework before hand.
    It's on my 5.56. Max will likely be 600. Will likely, usually be 200 which ain't no thang. I may be able to get to 800 but that's a lot for 5.56.
    Last trip I was just holding over. Yesterday I dialed.

    Quote Originally Posted by schambers View Post
    <snip to save space>

    I won't get in to FFP v. SFP optics for this so hopefully you know why those optical designs will make a difference. If you don't let me know and I'll write another wall of text.
    Thanks for all the info!! I do know FFP vs SFP. Mine is first.

    I ended up downloading a couple apps. Together it gives me almost all the info I need. If I can put in a good size for the target or the distance, it does nearly everything else.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyzik View Post
    It's on my 5.56. Max will likely be 600. Will likely, usually be 200 which ain't no thang. I may be able to get to 800 but that's a lot for 5.56.
    Last trip I was just holding over. Yesterday I dialed.
    A couple of random thoughts.

    Once you get out past 600 yards and beyond you will definitely need to run consistent ammo and bullet designs start to matter. The wind calls will be very critical at that point. I can hit the 800 yard plate with a 16" AR without a problem. That said wind is a real pain in the ass. At that range you can pretty much figure for every 1 mph in wind your bullet will break about a foot. If you think the wind is 2mph and it's really 3mph you could be off target. If you misjudge the wind 2mph you will be off the target.

    I tried doing some ranging using the scope I have and I was able to get within about 50 yards ranging an 18" plate that was ultimately 700 yards out. I still recall guessing it was between 650 and 675 but being off 25 to 50 yards means a miss at those distances.

    I am not at all trying to say not to go out there. By all means do it. I get off on that stuff. I have been meaning to try and take my gun out to 900 yards but I haven't done it yet. All I am saying is when you start going out past 500 to maybe 600 yards (depending on ammo) you really have to put on a hat of long range precision. Your game changes a lot out there.

    Shooting pretty much most crappy 5.56 ammo you can hit out to 500 yards. Depending on the bullet design what happens is at a certain range your bullet is butt heavy and it starts to tumble. With some of your better and heavier 69 to 77 grain ammo you can go to 800 or beyond.

    A long time ago I bought a few hundred rounds of cheap Freedom Munitions 55gr and I could bang out the 500 yard plate but connecting with the 600 yard one wasn't happening.

    If you want to do some real precision work you will need a ballistics program. If you want to do something more 'tactical' where just hitting the plate counts, I would just make a dope card considering your ammo and have it all calculated out to 500 yards in 50 yard increments. You can have one for summer and one for winter based on the average conditions in your area and just tape it to your stock or something.

    After that out to 500 yards you can range fairly accurately for minute of man precision just based around rough guesses about how big your target is.

    Long story short out to say 500 you can be really 'tactical' with an AR, especially if you are familiar with your area. IE That pine tree is 225, that oak tree is 310, etc, etc.

    It all depends on what you really want to do. If you are going to be shooting for groups at distances that you know and at target sizes you are familiar with it's one thing. If you want to be able to hunt that is something else. If you want to say transition from target to target 200 to 500 to 300 to 400 kind of like 3 gun that is something else too.

    Basically we haven't even gotten to the scope yet. As far as just ranging goes you just need a steady rest and you can get pretty close but especially if target size and distance are both unknown there is always going to be a margin of error. Within 500 or 600 yards though it's substantially more forgiving depending on the application.

    In other words, pick some type of application and learn how to do that using your scope and you will get the hang of it in no time. For example for a while there I practiced transitions. 300 to 500 to 400 to 600 and I got to the point where I was able to do it pretty second nature fairly quickly. Later on I tried to call the elements and dial in for groups.

    Just going to an unfamiliar place and shooting at random targets, you're going to have to have some way to estimate the size of your target but you will still have a margin of error.

  15. #15
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    Here's the way I do it which probably sounds nuts but it works for me. Say for instance it's a bad guy. I estimate he's 6 feet tall. He measures 2.5 mils tall in the scope. 2.5 x 3.6 = 9 inches at 100yds. How many 9 inches are there in 6 feet (72in)? 8. He's 800yds away.

    Now of course it isn't exact. They guy isn't likely exactly 6 feet tall. My eye is not capable of exactly measuring mils in the reticle against the target, and when multiplying mils by 3.6 I'll likely be left with a fraction of an inch to round up or down to make the calculation quick. So... all I expect is a quick ranging in my head without cheat-sheets and calculators. I just find it simple to multiply measured mils by 3.6 then use that number to divide the estimated size of the target.

    Bullet drop dope is on the rear scope cap.

    I've got a Leupold RX-1000i. It measures distance, angle and has ballistics programmed for most calibers. Based on a set zero, it displays the shooting solution to adjust the scope. My .308 isn't well served by the shooting solutions. I just use it as a range finder.

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