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  1. #16
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    The consensus is that the X300U-B is preferable for any metal rail, such as on your P226 or on a quad rail for a rifle, while the X300U-A is better for polymer rails, such as on a Glock or maybe an MOE rail piece.

    When you say "cone", what you probably mean is the hot spot? Which is related to throw. Beam-shape for urban home defense is largely a user preference thing, IMO; once you get into duty or rural use, throw becomes much more important, due to much longer ranges.

    I'm a die-hard SureFire fan, mostly because I love the use of the DG switch. That being said, it's not for everyone, and requires some training to make sure you don't touch something off due to a sympathetic response, or have a light ND in an inopportune time.

    I will note that most low-light pistol courses I have attended have focused heavily on the handheld side of things, rather than the WML, mainly because the WML is largely an issue of figuring out a consistent switchology, and then just shooting pretty normally. Tactics are something that most open-enrollment 2 day classes aren't going to be able to get in super-deep with, IME.
    Last edited by Default.mp3; 20 June 2018 at 21:06.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Default.mp3 View Post
    When you say "cone", what you probably mean is the hot spot? Which is related to throw. Beam-shape for urban home defense is largely a user preference thing, IMO; once you get into duty or rural use, throw becomes much more important, due to much longer ranges.
    My use is primarily rural. No street lights etc. My immediate lawn is about 100 yards wide and almost 300 yards deep and there are barns and stuff like that on the property.

    By 'cone' I mean how tight or wide the beam is. If I shine the light on a wall 10 feet away and I only get a spot the size of a softball that's too tight. I know that's an exaggerated example but I don't know the technical term to use. Like I said earlier, the Arisaka light is right on. If I go into a dark room and bounce the light around off the ceiling or something it will pretty much light up the whole room enough to see if there is anything or anybody in there. At the same time if I am walking through the yard the distance it reaches is still very good. Just informally speaking you can easily spot a person in the yard from 75 to 100 yards away or better. It casts a wide enough beam if I want to say scan across the yard or something like that as well I can do it. And if for example I go walking around the woods in the dark I have a light on my gun etc etc if for nothing else to scan the area, see where I am going, or whatever. The odds of me just strictly hunting down a bad guy is not very high.

    Even if I go on a night time pig hunt for example it would be a priceless thing to have. I really am glad I bought that light. I just need to transfer the same concept to a pistol.

    With the Arisaka light I have a much better idea of how I use that one, as for a handgun how I will, like you mention manipulate the controls while still being able to shoot is TBD.

    And absolutely thanks for the info about which models are better for which rails. That really does help a lot.

    To be honest I am kind of tempted to get one of the little flashlights too but for now I am sticking with a weapons mounted light for this particular purpose.
    Last edited by alamo5000; 20 June 2018 at 21:45.

  3. #18
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    Default.mp3 really did bring up a valid point about light manipulation. With my light on my SBR I can keep both hands on the gun and either keep the button depressed or just turn the light to constant without ever taking my eyes or red dot off of the bad guy. In theory if I found an escaped convict in my barn for example I could light him up without compromising my ability to use the weapon if needed.

    With a pistol that's something I am just going to have to practice. Any piece of equipment should become second nature, kind of like being able to walk around your own house blindfolded.

    I most definitely want to take a class, and I probably will once things settle down more, but for now if I get a good light and just get used to the controls that's a big step right there.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Default.mp3 View Post
    once you get into duty or rural use, throw becomes much more important, due to much longer ranges.

    I'm a die-hard SureFire fan, mostly because I love the use of the DG switch. That being said, it's not for everyone, and requires some training to make sure you don't touch something off due to a sympathetic response, or have a light ND in an inopportune time.
    Can you define more (briefly) what you mean by the following:

    "duty use"
    "rural use" (maybe this is all I am familiar with LOL. That's all I got in every direction. Rural. I take that to mean bigger wide open areas, like my yard for example.)
    "DG switch"
    "sympathetic response"
    "ND"

    I am not professionally trained so sorry of those are stupid questions.

    The way I am looking at it is if I need to go help hunt some kid down that is lost in the woods, or scan the property, or go check out the barn (big barn) that would maybe be considered duty or rural use?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    "duty use"
    "rural use" (maybe this is all I am familiar with LOL. That's all I got in every direction. Rural. I take that to mean bigger wide open areas, like my yard for example.)
    Duty and rural use just means you'll have to be using it outdoors at times, or at least in side a large structure, where having good throw is going to be important. Given how there's only so many lumens an LED can pump out, you'll want to focus some of that light into a hot spot so it can throw farther (thus why mad lumens alone isn't a good indicator of how far you can see at night; lux is the measurement of how many lumens within an area). For pure urban home defense, there simply isn't going to be a large enough room generally for throw to play that much of a role, compared to the raw lumens. A good example of this is how some folks find that the X300U, despite having almost half the lumens of the XH35, has much better throw, due to the beam shape. In side the house, the super-floody beam of the XH35 doesn't pose an issue, but outside, you just can't see as far with the XH35, despite it having way more lumens, because the beam is so diffuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    "DG switch"
    It's SureFire's pistol-specific pressure switches: https://www.surefire.com/dg-remote-t...-x-series.html
    Streamlight also has pistol pressure switches, but by all accounts, they are inferior to the SureFire versions, and they only have Glock and M&P models anyway, while SureFire has a wider variety. The switches do wear out, and are technically not covered under SureFire's lifetime warranty, but I've not had issues with them swapping out my switches when issues came up.

    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    "sympathetic response"
    In this particular context, your tendency for your fingers to follow each other. This is a concern about the DG switch; because you manipulate the switch with pressure from the middle finger, if you aren't diligent and have your trigger finger off the trigger in a good index, you might accidentally pull the trigger when attempting to just turn the light on. There have been several cases of LEOs allegedly doing this: https://www.denverpost.com/2014/03/2...#axzz2wVBiaS79

    I would argue that this is nothing more than a training issue, which is also the tack that SureFire takes: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...-science-slam/

    This also illustrates why generally it is best to have both a handheld and a WML, followed by having just a handheld, while having a WML only is the worst option, as with a WML, you have much less flexibility in how to safely use the light; modern WMLs have enough output to make it so that you can still illuminate to a certain extent by just bouncing light off of walls or floors, but it's still rough to be diligent in not muzzling anything when a WML is your only light.

    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    "ND"
    Negligent discharge. In this case, a light ND is the unintentional use of the white light; not really a concern for us average civilians, but can destroy your element of surprise, which is something much graver in the military world, and to a certain extent, LE realm.

    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    The way I am looking at it is if I need to go help hunt some kid down that is lost in the woods, or scan the property, or go check out the barn (big barn) that would maybe be considered duty or rural use?
    Yes, for something like that, I would want something with a lot of throw, because, well, you're outdoors.

    Beam anatomy: What’s a hotspot? What’s spill?

    Typical modern flashlights with the usual flat lens and reflector produce a beam that’s concentrated at its brightest in the center, or “hotspot,” with a much larger and less intense surrounding ring called the “spill.” The transition area around the hotspot going into the spill is sometimes called the “corona.”

    What does “throw” mean? What’s “flood?”

    Throw refers to the distance the beam travels to still effectively illuminate an object. “Throwy” lights tend to have higher beam intensity, “tighter” hotspots and larger, deeper reflectors to let the beam really go places. If you’re exploring caves or find yourself in dark open areas, this is the spec you want to look for. You might see units like lux and candelas in spec sheets — simply put, these measure light on a given area and can tell you how intense and far-reaching the beam can be.

    Flood refers to the area illuminated by a light. A beam that’s “floody” usually doesn’t go as far, but it bathes a wider area, allowing you to see more of your up close surroundings. You’d usually find shallow reflectors (or none at all) and larger die LEDs. Floody lights work well as task lamps or short-range navigation as opposed to search applications like a throwy light.
    Source: http://everydaycarry.com/posts/8861/...dc-flashlights
    Last edited by Default.mp3; 20 June 2018 at 23:16.

  6. #21
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    Between those two, and I have no concrete reason to say this yet, but I kind of prefer the Surefire. The specific model I am looking at is the X300U-A. For now it will go on a P226.
    You won't be disappointed.



    Something else to be aware of for the mounting system, specifically since you have a Sig. The X300 comes with two locking clips. One is for a 1913 rail and one is for a Glock rail (they don't call it that, but you get the point). Of the pistols that I own that can mount lights, I have Glocks and Sigs. If I wanted to move lights around, I'd have to completely take the locking mechanism apart each time, which isn't a quick evolution. I don't have a light for every pistol, so this wasn't optimal for me.

    But there's a solution! You can take the "Standard" (Glock" locking mechanism and just slightly sand down the aft, vertical part of the cross bar on the light and then it will be thin enough to snap into the Sig rail and still fit tight on a Glock.

    Note: this works for a U-A. I don't have any X300U-Bs (I don't think, anyway).

  7. #22
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    Skimming this thread, per alamo's request. Lumens isn't the be-all end-all measuring stick. Also keep in mind that it takes four (4) times the lumens to appear twice as bright to the human eye.

    Candela (or lux) is how concentrated the beam is, which some people call the throw. For instance, the old 300 lumen Surefire M300C has roughly the same throw as the new 500 lumen M300C, but the new version has much more spill, so the light isn't as concentrated. The increase in lumens makes up for it, so you don't lose any distance, and gain more illumination in the surrounding areas.

    Traditionally the surefire pistol lights like the x300 have always had less lux and more spill than the rifle lights (which makes sense, you generally aren't shooting 100+ yards with a pistol).

    As for which to go with, I hate the switching on everything on the market. The streamlight TLR1 in particular is way too easy to activate. I prefer a handheld for this reason, but if I had to use one, I'd go x300.
    Will - Owner of Arisaka LLC - http://www.arisakadefense.com

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slippers View Post
    Skimming this thread, per alamo's request. Lumens isn't the be-all end-all measuring stick. Also keep in mind that it takes four (4) times the lumens to appear twice as bright to the human eye.

    Candela (or lux) is how concentrated the beam is, which some people call the throw. For instance, the old 300 lumen Surefire M300C has roughly the same throw as the new 500 lumen M300C, but the new version has much more spill, so the light isn't as concentrated. The increase in lumens makes up for it, so you don't lose any distance, and gain more illumination in the surrounding areas.

    Traditionally the surefire pistol lights like the x300 have always had less lux and more spill than the rifle lights (which makes sense, you generally aren't shooting 100+ yards with a pistol).

    As for which to go with, I hate the switching on everything on the market. The streamlight TLR1 in particular is way too easy to activate. I prefer a handheld for this reason, but if I had to use one, I'd go x300.
    Follow up on that, compared to your 300 series which I own, what kind of light, throw, beam shape, etc can I expect with the x300 using the Arisaka as a baseline?

    I've been kind of laying it on thick about that light but it's my first light and the only thing I am familiar with.

    So far the x300 looks like a solid option. I am just wondering compared to the 300 series what kind of light beam and throw and how wide etc will an x300 light be? (just for my personal understanding)

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    My use is primarily rural. No street lights etc. My immediate lawn is about 100 yards wide and almost 300 yards deep and there are barns and stuff like that on the property.
    First thing I'd do it put up a pole light.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatordev View Post
    You won't be disappointed.



    Something else to be aware of for the mounting system, specifically since you have a Sig. The X300 comes with two locking clips. One is for a 1913 rail and one is for a Glock rail (they don't call it that, but you get the point). Of the pistols that I own that can mount lights, I have Glocks and Sigs. If I wanted to move lights around, I'd have to completely take the locking mechanism apart each time, which isn't a quick evolution. I don't have a light for every pistol, so this wasn't optimal for me.

    But there's a solution! You can take the "Standard" (Glock" locking mechanism and just slightly sand down the aft, vertical part of the cross bar on the light and then it will be thin enough to snap into the Sig rail and still fit tight on a Glock.

    Note: this works for a U-A. I don't have any X300U-Bs (I don't think, anyway).
    Awesome looking gun. I am very confident in you guy's ability to spend my money wisely. LOL! On a serious note I have gotten nothing but good guidance from the forum as a whole.

    Regarding the mounting system, I am not quite sure what the rail type is on a P226. It's not a standard rail from what I can tell. It's kind of belled out on the bottom. I will try to find a dealer nearby where I can actually handle the product(s) I am interested in. That will probably answer a lot more questions. At least now I will have a better idea what to look at.

    The whole lumens vs candela thing was very interesting. That was some very good stuff to learn about. I will try to go, maybe even today and see if the local shop I have in mind has one in stock so I can see a demo.

    Come to think about it I should probably just buy the damn thing. That said as pointed out earlier by you and Default.mp3 the mounting systems are a bit different. At this point that's kind of where I am at.

  11. #26
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    Holy nerding out batman...

    I like that people dive into certain aspects of WML's tech, application and tactics.

    For an HD, drawer/desk gun, you need it to do two things. Turn light on and turn light off at will. That's it. 99.99% of the lights do that.

    If your budget allows it, get one of the newer WML's which I recommended.

    If you are on a tight budget get a TLR-1s, I carried one on duty for years, it is good to go for duty work and will be perfectly fine for HD work and dry training.

    This is more a training thing than a hardware thing. Most WML's on the market do exactly the same thing with very slight differences. Unless you are using it for DUTY work or OVERT action, please keep your eye on the goal.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    Can you define more (briefly) what you mean by the following:

    "sympathetic response"?
    Perhaps more info than you want, but a good read none the less.

    Involuntary Muscle Contractions and the Unintentional Discharge of a Firearm
    Roger M. Enoka, Ph.D

    https://fortress.wa.gov/cjtc/www/ima...0Resources.pdf

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    Awesome looking gun.

    Regarding the mounting system, I am not quite sure what the rail type is on a P226. It's not a standard rail from what I can tell. It's kind of belled out on the bottom. I will try to find a dealer nearby where I can actually handle the product(s) I am interested in. That will probably answer a lot more questions. At least now I will have a better idea what to look at.
    Thanks!

    Your 226 has a Picatiny (ie, 1913) rail, that's why I mentioned it. Either way, you'll be fine with the X300, I was just pointing out that without slight modification, you can't move the light around easily from pistol to pistol (ie, Sig to Glock) like you can with suppressors/optics/etc. But like I said, it's easily remedied.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo_man View Post
    Holy nerding out batman...
    Who?!Meeee??? Nerding out????!!! Say it ain't so! Lol!

    It's almost like you've known me since birth! Hahaha!

    I am a notorious for being a picky shopper but in this case I have not been near as bad as before. Lol!

    Basically put though I would rather over buy than under buy, even if it's a few extra bucks.

    My intention was obviously as I mentioned above but in addition to that eventually I want to enroll in weapons classes. It might not be next week but I definitely want to do it.

    Kind of like buying more than I need in hopes of growing into it as I learn more.

    Hence I am trying to pick some brains here which is rarely a bad thing

    At this point I'm pretty sure what I will get. I do want to try and play with my first choice in person before I fork out the cash though.

    I'm tempted to get a hand held light too but we will see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Perhaps more info than you want, but a good read none the less.

    Involuntary Muscle Contractions and the Unintentional Discharge of a Firearm
    Roger M. Enoka, Ph.D

    https://fortress.wa.gov/cjtc/www/ima...0Resources.pdf
    It wasn't more than I wanted. It was right on the money. I love learning. I'm like a sponge dude. Inquisitive by nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by gatordev View Post
    Thanks!

    Your 226 has a Picatiny (ie, 1913) rail, that's why I mentioned it. Either way, you'll be fine with the X300, I was just pointing out that without slight modification, you can't move the light around easily from pistol to pistol (ie, Sig to Glock) like you can with suppressors/optics/etc. But like I said, it's easily remedied.
    Stuff like that is awesome to know.

    I'm not a Glock man yet. But as cash permits I will buy and outfit more guns as time goes on.

  15. #30
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    I'm not a Glock man yet. But as cash permits I will buy and outfit more guns as time goes on.
    Rog.

    I thought you also had one in your stable, so just putting out there. If you don't, even less of an issue for you.

    That said, and given all the other stuff here said, AND given your resources (ie, a nice range setup out your back porch), you just need to use what you have/buy something "good" and use it. You'll quickly find out if it works for you and you can adjust from there. And if you buy a X300U-A and don't like it, I'll be happy to take it off your hands (and the appropriate market value, of course!). Smiles and stuff.

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