Anti-walk hammer/trigger pins with spring detent?

[PJD642]

So I sprung for a Timney 2-stage trigger in my MPX. Fantastic trigger. Only downside I can see right now is it doesn't have the usual method of holding the hammer & trigger pins in place. There are two little set screws to press upwards on the trigger housing in the receiver, to provide tension on the hammer & trigger pins against the receiver holes to keep the pins in place. I'm not comfortable with this as I'll either overtighten the set screws or leave 'em too loose and the pins will slide out.

So I started looking at anti-roll pins. Began with the KNS ones, also Strike, Elftmann, CMC, and plenty of generic ones on Ebay. I'm not overly enthused with the "screw in caps & locktite" method, I prefer the clips. But what I'd REALLY like to find are some that use the same style of attachment as the Radian ambi safeties, with the slide on end caps that are held in place by a spring detent.

Granted, we're talking smaller diameter pins than the body of a safety, but I still think this would be doable & more secure than locktite to hold screws in pins. Does anyone make such a thing?

Gratuitous picture of the installed trigger pac:

[SINNER]

Buy a torque driver or send it to a competent gunsmith. Trigger assemblies are no place to think you know better. It would not surprise me one bit for the torque applied to those screws to impact the operation of that trigger. Especially so in a Sig.

And I’ve never seen any pin like you describe. I’ve have the KNS torx screw pins in many rifles with a CMC trigger and 0 issues.

[PJD642]

Buy a torque driver or send it to a competent gunsmith. Trigger assemblies are no place to think you know better. It would not surprise me one bit for the torque applied to those screws to impact the operation of that trigger. Especially so in a Sig.

And I’ve never seen any pin like you describe. I’ve have the KNS torx screw pins in many rifles with a CMC trigger and 0 issues.

I've got one (in inch pounds) for just this type of situation. And I agree on the torque possibly affecting operation, but Timney doesn't specify anything - the instructions say "Using the included 5/64 Allen wrench tighten down the two lock screws in the trigger housing indicated by the threaded holes on either side of the housing." There is no mention of torque values anywhere. So I'll be calling them tomorrow to see what they recommend. In the interim I've tightened the screws just until it feel like they make contact - no undue pressure, etc. That's not tight enough to stop the pins from moving if I push with less than moderate force, but it'll be good enough to keep things from falling out until I get anti-walks (won't be going to the range for ~ 2 weeks). I'm leaning towards Elftmann style - I like clips better than screws.

[Joelski]

Have you ever really had a trigger or hammer pin walk out more than a couple 64ths of an inch? Does this happen frequently with drop-ins? If so, its one more reason not to use cartridge FCG's. It doesn't happen with any regularity on standard pins as they'll catch a spring and stop, if they make it that far. This whole pin walking thing seems like a reason to separate people from their money.. I started down that road, read that it was all bullshit and decided to see for myself. Geissele recommends against them with their triggers (Only use Geissele pins). I've not seen one budge with thousands of rounds down my rifles (Of course, they all have Geissele triggers). I know, yay, good for me, but why, other than it looks cool and only adds an ounce? That said, the Timney is a good design if you worry about pins falling out. Some blue loctite and those torx screws ain't going anywhere.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Only downside I can see right now is it doesn't have the usual method of holding the hammer & trigger pins in place. There are two little set screws to press upwards on the trigger housing in the receiver, to provide tension on the hammer & trigger pins against the receiver holes to keep the pins in place. I'm not comfortable with this as I'll either overtighten the set screws or leave 'em too loose and the pins will slide out.

I have a Timney. After tightening the tension screws, you should find included two very small set screws that are designed to screw in behind the tension screws to lock them in place.

Here's a Timney install vid.

https://www.timneytriggers.com/video...r-ar-rifle-28/

[PJD642]

Have you ever really had a trigger or hammer pin walk out more than a couple 64ths of an inch? Does this happen frequently with drop-ins? If so, its one more reason not to use cartridge FCG's. It doesn't happen with any regularity on standard pins as they'll catch a spring and stop, if they make it that far. This whole pin walking thing seems like a reason to separate people from their money.. I started down that road, read that it was all bullshit and decided to see for myself. Geissele recommends against them with their triggers (Only use Geissele pins). I've not seen one budge with thousands of rounds down my rifles (Of course, they all have Geissele triggers). I know, yay, good for me, but why, other than it looks cool and only adds an ounce? That said, the Timney is a good design if you worry about pins falling out. Some blue loctite and those torx screws ain't going anywhere.

This is the first cartridge FCG I've used. Problem is, it's got two smooth hollow shafts that the trigger/hammer pins go though with no ability for the spring legs or anything else to contact, much less catch, either pin and prevent them from moving laterally. Hence the lock screws to provide upward push on the cartridge body & therefore impart tension against the trigger/hammer pins to try & keep them in the receiver.

I have a Timney. After tightening the tension screws, you should find included two very small set screws that are designed to screw in behind the tension screws to lock them in place.

The next line in the instructions after what I quoted above is: "Notice there are only two screws to tighten down and they are already in the housing. A nylock dowel will hold the trigger screws in place". So it's just the two screws already in the cartridge, no additional set screws available or included.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

The next line in the instructions after what I quoted above is: "Notice there are only two screws to tighten down and they are already in the housing. A nylock dowel will hold the trigger screws in place". So it's just the two screws already in the cartridge, no additional set screws available or included.

I see. "Reminder: This trigger does not use the second set of lock screws." I guess they must have got a lot of calls from Timney trigger users looking for the second set of screws like they're used to.

Don't care for the Timney set screw tension design. Prefer the spring tension design on my Wilson Combat TTU.

[FortTom]

I see. "Reminder: This trigger does not use the second set of lock screws." I guess they must have got a lot of calls from Timney trigger users looking for the second set of screws like they're used to.

Don't care for the Timney set screw tension design. Prefer the spring tension design on my Wilson Combat TTU.

I've got 3 of those installed, most recently in my 6.8. True drop in installation, about 10 minutes max, don't even have to move the safety or selector and have never had an issue with them. Price wise, Wilson is pretty proud of them, but I get a fairly decent deal on them with my MIL discount, from Brownell's. I have CMC in the others and have had no installation or other issues with those, either.

FT

[PJD642]

I went with the Timney for the MPX in large part due to the Timney hammer shape/trigger bridge, since I was worried about the disconnector getting beaten to death with a standard AR style FCG. Larue says their MBT is fine for use in the MPX, but I'd rather avoid testing how durable their DC is...

[FortTom]

Have you ever really had a trigger or hammer pin walk out more than a couple 64ths of an inch? Does this happen frequently with drop-ins? If so, its one more reason not to use cartridge FCG's..

I've never noticed any special need for a drop in over a conventional OEM style trigger, as far as KNS type kits. I've never seen a pin "walk out" horizontally...maybe just .020 or so, no biggie. What I have done was test this with some friends. We marked the pins and the receiver with a tiny dot of paint. Later, a week or so, we went shooting. We were actually shooting "hard", mag dumps, you name it. What we did discover on two of the rifles, mine, and one of the others, had the pins rotate around their axis' to varying degrees. One was a "drop in" - mine, and the other was in a rifle with a "conventional" style FCG. Neither was drastic, but I feel that over time there might be a cumulative effect, "reaming" the pin holes in the lower oversize.

So I guess it's like a condom, it's cheap insurance and you can be sure, or you can take the risk if you feel confident.

P.S. Yes I use them. (KNS PINS).

FT