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  1. #1
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    Heavy Buffers... technical questions

    What happens if your buffer is too heavy? Is there any detriment to this? What could happen?

    H1 is 3.8oz
    H2 is 4.6oz
    H3 is 5.4oz

    (approximately)

    All other things considered if your buffer is too light I know what can happen, but if it's too heavy? What would my symptoms be?

    I am running an H2 now with an XP spring. I see a buffer though that has a slightly heavier weight (4.9oz) and I am not sure if that little .3 oz would make a half a difference or not. I am guessing not so much.

    But just in theory if I had too heavy of a buffer what would the gun act like?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Too heavy and it wonít fully cycle. A full cycle means it will lock back on an empty mag.

  3. #3
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    With my current set up I have an adjustable block that I can't recall which click it's on but it's no where near full gas and with a H2 and XP spring it locks back without a problem. I tuned it to lock back suppressed and unsuppressed with a variety of ammo. I personally don't think a .3 oz difference would make any difference considering I have tons of leeway on the front end of the gun to get more gas if needed.

    To be honest I don't even know the exact buffer weight I have now. It's H2 but none of them are standard as far as I can tell.

    I don't know if that .3 oz extra weight will make any difference at all when it comes to reliability considering that it runs like a top. That 4.9 oz is like half way between H2 and H3 weights so before I bought one though I figured I should ask.

  4. #4
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    you might want to try running a standard buffer and spring and tuning w/ AGB. Changing buffer weights is part of how you tune a system w/o and AGB. No real point in having the extra precipitating mass if not needed.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoilerUp View Post
    you might want to try running a standard buffer and spring and tuning w/ AGB. Changing buffer weights is part of how you tune a system w/o and AGB. No real point in having the extra precipitating mass if not needed.
    When I build my 10.5 I was getting waaay too much carrier speed regardless of what I did with my GB. I think it was called 'bolt over base' which would mangle my brass and cause all kinds of feeding issues. Jerry R let me try a few things to test so I didn't have to throw lots of $$$ at a maybe and the H2 was my magic mojo. I tried it with an extra power spring AND the H2 and it was nice.

    I've ran that setup with all kinds of 5.56 and 300BLK without ANY problem so I figured I would try to copy it. The only potential difference is the buffer that I am looking at is probably slightly heavier than a standard H2. I haven't bought a buffer (or spring) yet but that's why I am asking the question. LOL

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    That’s what I’ve got with my .224 Valkyrie. I have it set on the first click that’ll cycle and lock the bolt but the carrier speed is still too fast and it was slinging brass like crazy, tearing it up and throwing it really far. Dropping to an H from a carbine buffer was the ticket to smoothing it out

    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    When I build my 10.5 I was getting waaay too much carrier speed regardless of what I did with my GB. I think it was called 'bolt over base' which would mangle my brass and cause all kinds of feeding issues. Jerry R let me try a few things to test so I didn't have to throw lots of $$$ at a maybe and the H2 was my magic mojo. I tried it with an extra power spring AND the H2 and it was nice.

    I've ran that setup with all kinds of 5.56 and 300BLK without ANY problem so I figured I would try to copy it. The only potential difference is the buffer that I am looking at is probably slightly heavier than a standard H2. I haven't bought a buffer (or spring) yet but that's why I am asking the question. LOL

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Former11B View Post
    That’s what I’ve got with my .224 Valkyrie. I have it set on the first click that’ll cycle and lock the bolt but the carrier speed is still too fast and it was slinging brass like crazy, tearing it up and throwing it really far. Dropping to an H from a carbine buffer was the ticket to smoothing it out
    Exactly!

    The real question here is at what point do you (not 'you' but we) over do it? I am trying to do a three bears thing here...not too hot, not too cold... but just right...at least that's the goal... I know what happens when carrier speed is too fast but if it's too slow on the far end the bolt won't lock back...but let's say I am just this side of the no bolt hold open side, is there a wide band of 'if it works it works' or is there signs of over doing it?

    I don't know the exact weight of my current buffer but it is an H2, but I am wondering basically how much wiggle room I have to play with here. At the end of the day it's going to come down to experimentation so it might be a $40 or $50 experiment. That's not anything to worry about cost wise but if someone knows the answer why not ask eh?

  8. #8
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    ^^^ On that note I see buffers of weights all over the place.... so I am shopping but also learning at the same time. I am looking for in context of what is 'ideal' and what symptoms to look for...

  9. #9
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    I like a little wiggle room so I can run all types of ammo suppressed and unsuppressed so I tend to keep my bolts running faster with lighter buffers...that way I know I can run Tula in a pinch, but also run full power ammo suppressed. That is a wide operating margin so my bolt runs faster and harder than most. If you want "ideal" an adjustable gas block is the key. I don't like adjustable gas blocks though...one more part to fail. Problem with running bolts faster and harder is that parts wear quicker. But..."ideal" would be the bolt running just fast enough to lock back on an empty round. The solution to this beyond having gas ports custom drilled is to have all buffer weights in your spare parts box, and get heavier and heavier until it doesn't lock back on the last round. When you find the weight that doesn't lock back, go 1 lighter.

  10. #10
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    Unless your gun is really over gassed or you're shooting suppressed, I think this obsession the last few years with buffers is gotten out of control.

  11. #11
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    It seems paradoxical to me to want to take better care of your rifle by spending more on the recoil system, but then feed it questionable ammunition. Sure, it's not corrosive, but we all know China loads everything with lead, or carfentanil. Why run crap through your gun's digestive system? What's in that faceful of eastern bloc or commie Red "gas"? Your rifle can't wear a gaiter!
    There's no "Team" in F**K YOU!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by UWone77 View Post
    Unless your gun is really over gassed or you're shooting suppressed, I think this obsession the last few years with buffers is gotten out of control.
    You said it. Of course it's gonna drive Alamo's OCD batshit, so grab some more Orville Redenbacker's.
    There's no "Team" in F**K YOU!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by UWone77 View Post
    Unless your gun is really over gassed or you're shooting suppressed, I think this obsession the last few years with buffers is gotten out of control.
    I 100% agree with that..every forum thereís always a thread on this subject of some sort..

    But thereís also been so many advancements it makes ya wonder what does work, maybe better?

    Iíve been eyeballing those armaspec srs setups.. but thatís another thread..

    Quote Originally Posted by Joelski View Post
    You said it. Of course it's gonna drive Alamo's OCD batshit, so grab some more Orville Redenbacker's.


    Lmao.....I agree.....sorry Alamo......
    Last edited by mustangfreek; 18 March 2019 at 17:02.

  14. #14
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    Too much overthinking here. Adjust your gas or buffer weight to lock back, unsupported, unsuppressed, with the weakest ammo you intend to run. Then it'll run anything you feed it suppressed or not.
    -One Nation, Under God

    -"The bad news is time flies. The good news is you're the pilot." ~ Michael Althsuler

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    Exactly!

    The real question here is at what point do you (not 'you' but we) over do it? I am trying to do a three bears thing here...not too hot, not too cold... but just right...at least that's the goal... I know what happens when carrier speed is too fast but if it's too slow on the far end the bolt won't lock back...but let's say I am just this side of the no bolt hold open side, is there a wide band of 'if it works it works' or is there signs of over doing it?

    I don't know the exact weight of my current buffer but it is an H2, but I am wondering basically how much wiggle room I have to play with here. At the end of the day it's going to come down to experimentation so it might be a $40 or $50 experiment. That's not anything to worry about cost wise but if someone knows the answer why not ask eh?
    Quote Originally Posted by alamo5000 View Post
    ^^^ On that note I see buffers of weights all over the place.... so I am shopping but also learning at the same time. I am looking for in context of what is 'ideal' and what symptoms to look for...
    First of all, when all else fails, go back to the TDP. I believe it has the actual buffer weights that the system was designed for.

    Next step, do some research on which barrel manufacturer has properly gassed gas ports for the specific configuration you're looking for. Yes, some of it will be anecdotal, but there's lots of good info you can find via the Googs.

    And to Aragon's point...if you have an already functioning system, don't screw with it. You're good. Don't over-think it.

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